...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 2)

[NileshKumar]

On 3/17/2023 at 1:18 AM, FamousActor_ said:

 

Read it on ESPN recently... Barça could lose all titles from the 2001-2018 era (32 in total, including 4 Champions and 9 La Ligas) plus being relegated. This punishment is too dramatic I think, but something is going to happen to them.

 

Edit: Just remembering, after the Calciopoli episode Juve lost one (or two?) league titles and was subsequently relegated.

ESPN, SkySports, TheAthletic etc. all love cooking up stories. The Prosecutor's Office has 0 evidence for their accusations. The case will probably be settled within a month after the people related to the case testify (if they reach that point)

[smokeless6]

I'd say it's unlikely they have zero evidence. This all came to light through a tax investigation. I suspect there's a trail, and it was the identification of these payments that prompted the new investigation. I won't make wagers on how it is resolved, but I believe the evidence exists. Whether it results in penalties or convictions is anyone's guess. Whether it even rises to the level of criminality is also in question, and anyway the prosecutors will have to prove their case. I don't wish to see Barca punished, or skate, but that justice is served. Let the evidence (if it exists) lead to the right outcome. I'm far too cynical to really think anything will come out of it, as justice is rarely blind these days. But if it is proven they broke the law then they should pay for that.

 

It doesn't seem implausible that Barca did this. My gut feeling is they did. But this is what courts are for.

[Jason]

Jesus, looking at the table I didn't realise how much we'd been dragged back into a top four battle with our recent reasons in the league. No Casemiro for 4 games either, though I think one is an FA Cup game. We have Newcastle after the international break, that could be a huge game for the top 4 run in.

 

Spurs dropping points away again is nice though, had me for a minute then.

 

Meanwhile Leeds going from 19th to 14th with one win tells you how tight it is down there, could be an epic relegation battle this season.

 

Edit: Jesus, that Conte post-match presser. He's went in on the club and players. He's already went for the fans too. No one wants him there anymore, and he's not wanted to be there for ages, he just wants the payday from getting sacked. They're not even in a bad position in the league at all but because of him it feels like the clubs on fire. 

[Lonely-Martin]

There's stuff in what Conte said that's near impossible to disagree with.

 

But blimey. Has to go. And go now!

[Jason]

That's how he's getting away with it. There's truth that the club doesn't have what it takes to make the next step under the current ownership. But there's also truth in the fact he's been backed more than any other manager in the clubs recent (if not all time) history and all he's got to show for it is crying. Again, it's not like they're 8th, they're still well in the top 4 race but he's sabotaging it. 

[Eutyphro]

He's been unlucky with the Bentancur and Bissouma injuries. They could have made a real difference. Without them, especially Bentancur, Tottenham is a bit mediocre. It seems Conte doesn't have patience to sit through a lesser period and just wants out. The Premier League is a tough league, and it seems he lost faith in their ability to really compete. I agree that I think they would have made top 4 if it were not for his meltdowns.

[TheSantader25]

This is some next level sh*t from Conte lol. I've never seen a meltdown like this even from Jose.

 

There's truth to it of course. The squad Tottenham have is good enough for top 4 and they are in the top 4. But they need to be much more ambitious if they ever actually wanna win something. 

 

I feel like Conte has realized they'll never be like that with the current ownership. For people like him who cannot stand losing at all, it's tough to be content with top 4, top 3 or even top 2. He's not gonna stay there for 5 years hoping he eventually gets lucky and they win something with an inferior squad. He's done with it. But yeah. He does have a habit of fully burning bridges when things don't go the way he wants.

Edited March 18 by TheSantader25

[Jason]

There's been someone who can't stand losing and there's been someone who is being ignorant to the situation he's in. Crying about this and that, crying about the owners, about the players, about the fans as well. It's embarrassing and pathetic. He's a top manager but he got given what he wanted with Spurs this season and he'd prefer to burn it all down rather than actually build something.

 

He's a manager who wants a title winning squad built in a summer and that's just not how it works. He's spoken before how much he loves the league but he'll never get back in it now, he's too much hassle.

 

In some ways it feels like he never really wanted Spurs anyway, he just wanted to back in the Prem. I think the job he actually wanted was the United job, it seemed to be the one he was holding out for.

[FamousActor_]

Conte's saying the truth. He didn't lie at any word. But yeah, he shouldn't have said this in an interview. Like... damn. Guy is basically asking to be sacked.

[Jason]

One hell of a collapse by Fulham tonight. We were awful as well, but they completely lost their heads.

[TheSantader25]

12 point lead with 12 games to go. Still need to stay focused. Hopefully the domestic double is ours this year.

[smokeless6]

It's done and dusted I reckon.  Madrid have thrown in the towel. Well done to Xavi. He has a maelstrom swirling around him but still manages to get big results every week.

[Jason]

Yea he's quietly doing a very good job especially when you look at the drama around the club, it'd very easy for the on the pitch stuff to implode but it's plodding along nicely. Not just the corruption scandal but the financial situation too, losing Messi, having a bit of a mumbo jumbo squad, having to figure out how to get them playing, getting players like Dembele in form. He's doing good work, they'd have been favourites for the EL if they beat us, and there was no shame in that result, it was a CL worthy tie.

 

Madrid will undoubtedly focus on the CL now, knock out football has been their current squads specialty for years now.

[TheSantader25]

He's doing great but I can already see he has gotten much older just in 1 year because of managing this club. Managers truly have to suffer in Barca to get any sort of success. I'd argue that it's the hardest managerial job in the world.

 

You have to win, play youngsters and play good football at the same time all while dealing with drama every day. It truly takes a toll on you. I think that's one of the reasons Pep couldn't stay longer. The pressure just breaks you mentally.

 

[Jason]

It's certainly one of them, though there's been some classic examples of Prem managers going grey or looking like hell after six months in charge of a top 4 club in the PL.

[Jason]

You know a club is fed up with a manager when they're already briefing the press on who they're looking at for their next manager but they've officially sacked their current lol. Not only that, talks of players texting Poch to get a gauge on if he wants to come back.

[smokeless6]

18 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

 I'd argue that it's the hardest managerial job in the world.

 

Potter just said the same thing about his job recently. I don't know which one actually is the most difficult, but it must be tough at the top, when things are not going according to plan at the biggest clubs where expectations don't allow for dips in form and strings of poor results. Only a very few ever feel secure, and even that can be fleeting if results go awry.

[Jason]

Honestly if I were to think about it I'd say the hardest jobs are the big clubs after a successful spell. In that sense, I think Xavi's had it pretty cushy at Barca, he's came in after a disaster and been given the keys to the club basically. He's done well and there's a lot of off the pitch drama he's done well to keep off the pitch, but he's had what a lot of Barca managers in recent years haven't had too.

 

Chelsea are difficult right now cause of the new ownership and the money spent, PSG's a tough job in the sense that it's CL or bust, but I think all managers know what they're getting into with that job (win the league, lose the CL, get an early payoff). United after Fergie was a veeeeeeeeeeeeeery tough job, Moyes looked like hell after a few months in that job.

 

I'd actually probably say the toughest job right now, given that it's about to be vacant, is actually the Spurs job. World class stadium, big investment in the squad, the best strike partnership in the league, a huge desire from the fans for the club to make the next step. There's massive expectations but for whatever reason they're still missing something, and every manager they bring in is expected to bring that missing something when it's not that simple. I wouldn't seriously call it the hardest managerial job in football, but right now it's in a really dodgy position for a manager. Whoever they get, the expectation is that they'll win them a trophy otherwise it'll now be seen as failure.

[TheSantader25]

More and more evidence is popping up defending Barca's claim on the Negreira case while the prosecutor office still has zero evidence on any wrongdoings. Meanwhile we might start sueing the journalists for defamation. This is looking more and more like a cheap trick to f*ck up the team's spirit before the 3 Clasicos.

Edited Wednesday at 05:10 PM by TheSantader25

[Jason]

If it turns out they are innocent of any wrong doing then they are very entitled to sue the f*ck out of the people who broke the news for sure. Be an interesting one to see where it goes.

 

Meanwhile, the deadline for the United takeover bids is today. The Qatari's and Jim Ratcliffe's INEOS are both expected to bid what would be a world record fee for a football club. There's been talk of other bidders involved but that remains to be seen, only those two groups ever met at Old Trafford. There's talk of an investment fund being willing to help finance any bids as well.

 

The clear and obvious favourite among the most savvy United fans is Ratcliffe and INEOS but truth be told, both bids are not good. United's a club whose fanbase has prided its self on the club's current status (and wealth) being a result of success on the pitch, and a sportswashing ownership coming in is... well, you all know. It's rough.

 

So you'd think Ratcliffe and INEOS would be the perfect fit, then, right? Ratcliffe is Manchester born and a childhood supporter (we'll just gloss over his Chelsea season ticket and put it down to living in London)... but the finances behind the deal are extremely spooky to United fans. We had the Glazers do a horrible leveraged buy out to take over the club, and then put that debt on the club, a debt which has resulted in (plus dividends) over a billion pound leaving the club since they took over. As a result of that we as a fanbase are pretty f*cking spooked over the idea of debt but an INEOS take over would involve loans to be able to fund it. The catch is INEOS would put this debt on INEOS, not United, and people savvy in the world of finance will tell you that debt isn't inherently a bad thing if managed well, but yea, the Glazer's have poisoned the well so much that any debt, loans, or anything, being used in a take over is something that makes a lot of United fans uneasy. There's also something to be said of the greenwashing aspect of INEOS too.

 

Qatari ownership is not a popular choice for obvious reasons, but they've been saying the right things sports wise and commiting to new stadiums / OT renovations, this that and the other, and there's growing support for it cause of that - plus people dream of us going mental in the summer with new very rich owners.

 

Fans got their wish, the Glazer's are willing to sell (for the right price, supposedly they'll keep it if they don't get that price, which I doubt as there would be riots)l but our only known options right now are both not great.

[TheSantader25]

Well I guess one of the perks of being fan owned is that I don't have to worry about this stuff despite the financial difficulties it could cause. However, if I were a United fan I would want Ratcliffe. He's british and probably understands the importance of football a bit more than the Qataris. Also they haven't really done a good job at PSG when you compare it to Man City.

Edited Wednesday at 06:54 PM by TheSantader25

[Jason]

Barca being fan owned is why I was so critical of the way they got them selves out of the financial mess. They chose the chance of trophies in the short term over keeping as much of the club together as possible long term. English fans would absolutely love to own their clubs, so seeing a club intentionally sell chunks of the club (even if it's stuff like media sections) is just stupid to us. Might get them a La Liga this season, but what's it gonna cost in 10, 20, 30 years?

 

And yea, Ratcliffe and INEOS is still the preferable but it's still not a great choice. INEOS have owned Nice for a while though and haven't done much good with them, though I here more recently they're doing better.

[Eutyphro]

Man United just on the basis of the money they bring in as a brand should already be doing well. I don't think Man United need Qatari level money to compete at the peak of the market. It also hasn't really been the transfers of over 100m that have made the difference in how teams have performed in recent years. Many of them have flopped. So I don't think raw financial clout is what wins the market. I think it's smart technical policy that makes the difference.

[Jason]

You're half right, the club doesn't need Qatari money to be successful, so we'd have that argument. It doesn't really change the fact that United would still become a sports washing, state owned club, which is something United (along with Liverpool fans in particular) have long criticised. It's awkward to say the least.

 

On the other hand, we actually need investment from outside the club because the stadium is in dire need of an overhaul, or a new stadium altogether. Due to over a decade of neglect the stadium overhaul would be hundreds of millions at this point, and a new stadium like a billion or so. Carrington is also no longer the world class training facility it once was and also needs a big investment. It's why the clubs actually a little unattractive to buyers, because the Glazer's want a huge fee for it, there's something like 600-800m of debt to clear, and then on top of that you're likely talking 1b-1.5bil worth of investment into the facilities alone. 

[Eutyphro]

I haven't made a financial analysis of the type of investment United need, but you think they need a Qatari level infinite money cheat to fund a new stadium, training facility, and clear debt? I think my perspective is often times very coloured by me being an Ajax fan, who have a modern stadium, who probably have good training facilities, and who though their performances have been decreasing rapidly since ten Hag and Overmars left, have proven that you can get good players on a reasonable budget.

[Jason]

We're a club whose fans are deathly allergic to the propect of loans because of the decade+ of Glazer ownership, so that means that if a new owner were to come in and take out a loan to fund the facilities upgrades there would be A LOT of unease in the fanbase. And while we generate a lot of money as a club the club has been bled dry by the Glazer's resulting in us really needing the money we have for transfers. The Glazer's have bled over a billion out of the club since they arrived, if that money went in the stadium and facilities... well, the clubs faciliites would still be up there with the best in the sport.

 

The Qatari bid are the ones publicly willing to just pump the club with cash for the facility improvements, invest in the local area, etc, where as the Ratcliffe bid, which is already built partly on loans, is TBA regarding that I believe. Transfer wise they'd have to do nothing, simply not having a debt to repay and no longer paying out dividends would further enhance the clubs spending power in the market.

[TheSantader25]

Crazy to see Nagelsmann sacked. Bayern is one of the weirdest clubs in the world. It always seems like everything is fine there, there is peace and no drama and suddenly stuff like this happens. They were doing really well in the CL. I considered them favorites. I guess Tuchel is inevitable.

Edited Thursday at 11:05 PM by TheSantader25

[Jason]

Can only assume something has went wrong behind the scenes. It's been brewing as well, sounds like they've had Tuchel lined up for a little while at least.

 

Very, very strange situation.

[Lonely-Martin]

Well at least we ain't getting Tuchel in.