...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 2)

[TheSantader25]

England didn't deserve to lose. This french side can get away with anything and even play like sh*t at times because they have so much quality. I don't know how the other 3 teams can stop all this quality. It will be quite an achievement if they do.

[Cordohen]

Someone help me change my diapers.

[Jason]

Just a tough result to take. We weren't out played in any shape or form, it was a game of fine margins and we didn't take the chances and France did. Got nothing bad to say about the players, the performance, the team selection from Gareth, which is a first in my lifetime. Just feels awful to go out in the quarters but the bracket can be cruel sometimes.

 

Have thought the winner of this game becomes the strong favourites and, frankly, if France don't win the tournament now I'll be shocked.

 

Tough night man, tough night. The upside is this squad we have has another WC in them easily, most of them have multiple. Few more players coming through as well, the future is still bright.

[Cordohen]

GG England though, you were certainly crushing us after we scored our first goal. Not counting the pen, I don't know ho the f*ck we didn't concede. I was literally grabbing my hair on each England offensive. That move by T.Hernandez provoking the second pen was f*cking useless, why the hell did he do that ffs 

Thank God Deschamps didn't replace Giroud, he was our best player at the front. And thankfully Lloris was on a good day today, so many good saves.

 

Now France against Morocco, that's gonna be quite something...

[Cordohen]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

Tough night man, tough night. The upside is this squad we have has another WC in them easily, most of them have multiple. Few more players coming through as well, the future is still bright.

Yes, exactly. You guys have a lot of young talented players like Saka, Foden or Bellingham (which is to me the best young player of the tournament). Reminds me a lot of our team back in 2016.

 

England certainly do have a future.

[Lonely-Martin]

2 hours ago, Cordohen said:

Bellingham (which is to me the best young player of the tournament).

 

Yeah, that lad was genuinely excellent and if he stays with the right mind he's got a massive future indeed. So mature for his age.

[smokeless6]

On 12/10/2022 at 4:05 PM, TheSantader25 said:

England didn't deserve to lose. This french side can get away with anything and even play like sh*t at times because they have so much quality. I don't know how the other 3 teams can stop all this quality. It will be quite an achievement if they do.

 

This. England can hold their heads high, although Kane will find that difficult to do at the moment. The roster was a nice mix of youth and experience, and while several of the players just played their final World Cup, there is plenty of cause for optimism in four years.

 

Giroud is France's all time goalscorer, which is rather remarkable for someone no one seems to rate. Well done to him. He scores goals everywhere he goes.  France may have been fortunate to win this match, but I am impressed with their depth, to not miss a step despite losing essentially their starting midfield before the tournament. Griezmann has been superb is this role, Rabiot has taken his chance with both hands and Tchouaméni scored that vital opener and has looked composed beyond his years. Everyone talks about Mbappe, and deservedly so as he is a phenomenal footballer, but France have depth that other nations can only dream of.

 

This World Cup is theirs to lose I reckon, but this World Cup has thrown the book out and I wouldn't wager on anything at this point.

[Jason]

Giroud's problem has always been the same problem Peter Crouch suffered from in large parts - a big man up top hasn't been fashionable for long stretches of their careers. Giroud's scored goals everywhere he's been and at every level and on top of that his link up play has always been fantastic, he's great at one touch play, little flicks around the corner, improvisation for passes and shots, etc.

 

I swear, if Giroud was 20 years old coming through now there would be clubs lining up to pay 100m for him cause a big man up top is fashionable again with the likes of Haaland, Nunez, etc.

[Eutyphro]

Giroud is a very good player. And it is true that a big guy on top to hoof the ball to for headers is not a top strategy at club level, but it clearly has always worked in international football, where teams are not as well organized, and simple strategies such as hoofing it to the tall striker in the box are more effective than in top club football.

What we see that also especially doesn't work at international level is playing a false nine, which is sort of the opposite tactic, and we saw Spain flop with Asensio in a false nine role.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Eutyphro

[Cordohen]

7 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

What we see that that also especially doesn't work at international level is playing a false nine, which is sort of the opposite tactic, and we saw Spain flop with Asensio in a false nine role.

Absolutely. Even Germany with Müller. Füllkrug on the bench was a true 9 and everytime he went on the pitch things got a lot better for the team.

 

As for Giroud, yeah he might not be the sexiest forward of our time, but with him up front we managed to get to the final in 2016 and 2018. He's always been there for France, and even though he didn't score in 2018, he was as important as anyone else on the team. Lots of defenders said that Giroud was a nightmare for them, because of his capacity draw most of the times 2-3 players to him, to link-up with the wingers, to make great headers, and such.

 

There's this big debate here in France where people prefer Benzema over Giroud and vice versa. Personally I like them both. I think they are equally good, but for different reasons.

[TheSantader25]

Giroud is a very smart player and also a big game player. It's incredible how underrated he has been throughout his career because every time I see him on the pitch he brings something for his team. Not to forget the absolute bangers he scores from time to time.

 

I rate him higher than players like Nunez every day because he uses his brain and takes advantages of his capabilities. Also I don't think Giroud is typical old school number 9. His movements are much more modern and versatile.

 

Playing false nine requires a lot of coordination and tools that National teams usually do not have. Especially this world cup that teams had zero preparation.

[Eutyphro]

I thought a little deeper and the only time it worked was with 2012 Spain, when they were playing a range of midfielders that are among the greatest creative midfielders of all time at the same time. Seems like that is the only way to make it work, if you play both prime Iniesta and have David Silva, Xavi and Busquets all top. Also since then football has actually evolved significantly and they might very well lose today with that tactic. I actually think they would lose in 2022.

[TheSantader25]

I don't think if they had the same players, it would fail. The problem is the way Spain and Barca played in 2008-12 requires incredible midfielders that are completely suited to that style. What we are seeing right now is not Tiki Taka. It's just a failed attempt. Because the players are not good enough for that. Maybe Pedri and Gavi get better later but then again they are just two players. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by TheSantader25

[Eutyphro]

Maybe, but I also think especially with the rise of agressive pressing/gegenpressing football since then has changed tactically, and tiki taka is even more likely to get beat on the counter than ten years ago. I think if someone thinks they're going to win an international tournament without a striker in 2022 they are a crazy person. Germany flopping due to the lack of Werner, and playing Muller in stead is another succesful example that has just been given.
 

Quote

they are just two players. 

Exactly, and whether any country will ever produce another generation of midfielders like the Spain that won the Euros 2x and the WC remains to be seen.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

24 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

Maybe, but I also think especially with the rise of agressive pressing/gegenpressing football since then has changed tactically, and tiki taka is even more likely to get beat on the counter than ten years ago.

 

Was literally just about to type this.

 

That Barca team of the 2009-2012 era was quite possibly the best club side I've ever seen, it had a once in a generation manager with a starting eleven filled with players who would go onto be among the greatest ever to play their position, with one of them being in many peoples eyes the greatest ever period.

 

BUT.

 

Tiki taka was really strong back then, it wasn't just about Barca or Spain's ability to keep the ball so well that made them so difficult to play against it was their pressing off the ball when they lost it. When playing against them once you finally got the ball back it was like you had to go up and score there and then cause they'd win it back instantly if not.

 

Over the past several years teams have very quickly evolved to be able to play through presses a lot better, counter-pressing in general is much more established and fitness (and the ability to sustain a press over 90 mins) is not something unique to one or two teams in the world anymore.

 

Those Barca (I include them cause they made up half the Spain eleven lol) and Spain teams would still be very strong contenders in 2022 but it would be much more difficult for them as teams and top players are far more comfortable playing against that sort of opposition nowadays.

[Donald Lov]

Wow, that's going too unexpectedly easy for Argentina. So easy that it's quite hard to get excited even though the win is huge... Not sure whether the first penalty is legit or not, but I don't think there is any doubt as to what is a better team. Great job by Scaloni - give the ball away to Croatia and it's a done deal. What sank Brazil, Argentina used to their advantage.

And Messi, of course, I mean, what are you gonna do...

[Jason]

It's a stone wall penalty for me. Lot of comments I've seen have over analysed the part after the foul as if that matters, or questioned what the keeper is meant to do, as if that allows a keeper to just flatten a player without touching the ball. Simply put, the forward has knocked the ball past the keeper and is running on goal and the keeper has flattened him without any contact on the ball. That's a foul, and it's in the box, so it's a penalty. If Lovren wasn't behind it's a red card as no attempt was made for the ball.

 

Keeper has to get a hand/foot/head on it and clear it first for the contact after to not be deemed a foul, but yea, Alvarez literally puts it past him.

 

Anyway, Messi... and that's all that needs to be said.

 

 

[TheSantader25]

The Messi-Alvarez duo is looking good. Alvarez can actually finish which is a big surprise for Argentina. It's a shame Alvarez is gonna rot on the City bench because of Haaland.

 

Argentina really got better with every game after the Saudi loss. Their full backs will really be tested against Dembele and Mbappe though. They don't have the firepower to beat France. It will truly be a magical night if they somehow pull it off.

Edited December 13, 2022 by TheSantader25

[smokeless6]

Thumping penalty from Messi. He was fantastic. As a neutral at this stage, I hope Argentina find a way to get it done. No career deserves a World Cup more than Messi's.

 

Maybe that Copa win gave them more belief, because their history during Messi's time has been spotty at best. Here's their chance. Can they take it? As much as I find myself rooting for the Moroccans and their great fans, my money'd be on France and that's a difficult opponent for this Argentina side I think. But I'll be in for Argentina. If the football gods are just, Argentina will win it. But they rarely are

[Cordohen]

Rabiot and Upamecano on the bench 😔

 

I think Konaté is alright (he was doing well at the start of the tournament when Varane was still out) but Fofana instead of Rabiot... that's quite a loss. Rabiot was performing so well so far.

[Shyabang Shyabang]

Morocco's tactics aren't working against France...

Edited December 14, 2022 by Shyabang Shyabang

[Cordohen]

Well... good thing we managed to score very early in the game. Morrocco was pushing really hard until we scored that second goal out of nowhere. What a tough team to play, even with Saïss and Aguerd out. Konaté was fantastic in defence, can't say the same about Fofana in the middle, we sure missed Rabiot there...

 

I still can't believe how France managed to go to the final, with all the injuries that happened before (Pobga, Kanté, Kimpembe, Maignan, Nkunku, Benzema...) and during (Lucas Hernandez) the tournament, it's a miracle for us.

 

On the way now to defend our title, Argentina really stepped up as they progressed in the tournament. This is going to be a hell of a fight.

[TheSantader25]

I don't think it's a miracle at all that France are in the final. I had them as finalists since before the start of the tournament and throughout the tournament. No nation has the amount of talent France has at the moment.

 

There are players left out of the national team that could actually be starters for some of the other top nations in the tournament. That's how much depth France have. I expect them to beat Argentina on Sunday.

[Cordohen]

I think because of all those injuries + the last Nations League games we've lost before the tournament + the fact that the French squad would have that big Champions pressure at the start, most of us French supporters weren't that confident. Maybe we had some kind of "Monsters under the bed" syndrome?

 

40 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

I expect them to beat Argentina on Sunday.

I hope you're right there, brother. But damn, those Messi, Alvarez, E. Martinez, Otamendi, Fernandez... I'm scared lmao. A much better team than the one in 2018 which we already struggled to beat. And this time no Kanté to stop Messi in the midfield 😅

[Jason]

Honestly I thought Morocco played well, they just didn't take their chances when they came and France took theirs, plus a little bit of luck in France's favour and none at all for Morocco. That's football though.

 

Think some of the injuries France got pre-tournament have been a blessing in diguise tbh. Benz was a loss but Giroud's a top player whose style of play works really well with the players behind him like Mbappe and Dembele. Griezmann's possibly been the player of the tournament and may have transformed him self into a box to box midfielder lol. The two big ones beyond Benz were Pogba and Kante but honestly, Kante's not the force of nature he once was, far from it, and Pogba's just a waste of time these days. Touchameni's been good and given them fresh legs and Rabiot's been good as well.

 

The question mark over France was always how will they adapt without the injuries and the answer is that they adapted and coped perfectly fine, I don't think they'd have got this far with a midfield of Kante and Pogba tbh.

 

That all being said I don't think this France team are unbeatable by any stretch of the imagination so I think, fingers crossed, that we'll have a good game on Sunday.

 

It says a lot about how beloved Messi is that a lot of English want the Argies to win just because we all want to see Messi lift that trophy. Been such a joy to watch for so long and if reports are true then this could be his last season at top level football with him joining Inter Miami for next season, so him winning the WC would be a nice way to finish of his career at the top level.

[Eutyphro]

France was actually kind of disappointing without Rabiot today. Morocco probably had better chances, and the better of the game against them, but messed up early in the game which cost them.

 

As for the final, Argentina really has a good shot, and they have so many fans in the stadiums that it feels as though they are playing home games. Without Rabiot France miss something in midfield, and I was not impressed today, even if they won. I hope Argentina lose and karma is served, but I think France has to be better than today to beat Argentina.

[Donald Lov]

Argentina's mental game and general chemistry and understanding between the players is probably the best on the tournament. They're also tactically resilient, which is certainly a big help. France is just pure class and force.

 

Man, been a while since we had a final that tight. Not even sure who the bookies are going to pick as their favorite. Probably France, but the odds will most likely be practically identical.

[cactus.]

Morocco put a really good fight in the semi final. I was impressed. I'd love to see them grab Third place.

 

Croatia, on the other hand, surprised me how far they got. They look rather average and that showing against Argentina was so meek. It was a lame, one-sided semi final. They were simply brushed aside. I'm still upset with Brazil that they lost concentration in the last few minutes of that game to allow Croatia to equalize and knick a win. Robbed us of an epic Brazil/Argentina semi final. Whatever, a game of fine margins, yada yada

 

and as I'm typing this Croatia just scored one of my fav goals of the tournament..that was nice!

[Ari Gold]

I think if Modric or Perisic weren't playing, Croatia would've struggled to make it beyond the group stages... As someone said a few weeks back though, they are tactically probably one of the sharpest teams in the world. Wasn't surprised at all that they managed to neutralise Brazil's laissez-faire style with their defensive cohesion. Them achieving third place is an excellent achievement or them, and in particular I hope that Livakovic gets an opportunity to move to a big Western European club. Him and Bounou were probably goalkeepers of the tournament.

 

Also, RIP to Sinisa Mihajlovic, certainly one of the greatest and most beloved footballers to come from the Balkans. Absolute rocket of a left foot too.

 

 

[Eutyphro]

Seems like the GOAT is finally getting that crown on his career. Even as a Dutch man can not deny that it is 100% deserved. Best player the world will ever see probably.