...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 2)

[TheSantader25]

As I expected we're heading to Europa League. Bayern never show mercy. We're not playing bad honestly. Bayern are just miles better. Should have done the job against benfica or avoided a loss in Lisbon.

 

We're not a contender anyway so might as well head off now than concede more in the next leg. There are better teams like Dortmund in EL as well so even winning that one is tough. We have to develop this squad throughout the rest of the season and see what happens. 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by TheSantader25

[Lonely-Martin]

So our game with Rennes is off and we've been told to close the first team training area too. Crikey!

 

That could mean the Brighton, Leicester and even Liverpool games postponed too, if not more with a league cup quarter final with West Ham after that, plus that Burnley game to play too!

 

Worst time in the season for this to happen, and it'll make for a chaotic 2nd half of 2021/22 season for us indeed. What a mess.

[Eutyphro]

They didn't start badly. My assessment is that Busquets is Barca's biggest problem. He keeps on needlessly slowing the game down, and has no pace in him whatsoever. I know the way Busquets plays has been Barca's identity, but he's past it, and they need to evolve. I have no doubt that with Frenkie in the regista role, and Pedri playing, they could be doing much better. Bayern is also a very good team that will show you where your team is really at. Barca should learn, but I have no doubt the next ten matches Busquest will keep starting, until Xavi gets sacked.

If I want to counter my own anti-Busquets position. He has been decent for Spain in recent years. It might be also that Frenkie is just no good as a left center midfielder, or at least nowhere near as good as he really is. It's just a faulty way to play. And lastly, how the hell are you going to outscore bayern with Ousmane Dembele, Depay and Dest as a front three? There's no way to do that with that as a front three. Impossible.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Eutyphro

[TheSantader25]

Busquets has actually been the only player that has improved in the last couple of games under Xavi so far IMO. The reason he plays better for Spain is Enrique knows how to use him. I have been having doubts about him in the past couple of years but seeing him in Spain and under Xavi, I think it's just that no coach we've had uses him correctly since Enrique. I think if you don't know how to use him, he will be an absolute flop.

 

Here's a list of players that have been a liability in this game and overall are not good enough:

Mingueza

Lenglet

Dest

 

Plus that front line is absolutely atrocious. Depay started good but he's been horrible in the last 3 months. Easily the weakest Barca front line I've seen in my lifetime. You could create 20 chances and they still won't score. Injured Left back, sh*t RB and bad CB + a very bad frontline leaves us completely lacking against Bayern obviously. The midfield is the only area we don't have problems imo. Too bad our academy barely produces anything other than midfielders. We could really use something.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by TheSantader25

[Eutyphro]

I've just been seeing Busquets only playing sideways and backpasses. He's not progressing the game, but constantly taking the pace out of everything Barca does. It feels like he is still trying to play how Barca played back when Barca had 70 percent possession and they could play the ball around endlessly, but it just does not work. If you would play Frenkie in that position you would have a player that genuinely progresses play. Then there's other midfield players like Pedri, Gavi, or maybe Puig that could be decent. If these tactics don't change and they keep playing Busquets if I were Frenkie I'd try to force a move to Man City because this is not going to work.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Eutyphro

[TheSantader25]

Frenkie is currently needed further ahead due to lack of goalscorers so there's that. I do not think Barca's problems really stem from Busquets honestly. They mostly lie within pressing and defensive organization and obviously lack of that cutting edge in the final third.

[Jason]

The most damning thing you can say about Barca's fall is that it isn't surprising. Horribly managed from top to bottom and among the worst recruitment in European football at the top level, Messi has carried them on his back for the past few years.

 

Good luck to Xavi cause I think he'll need it lol.

[Eutyphro]

They should have never treated Koeman as they did, and they are paying for it. At the moment they literally depend on Ansu Fati who though he's just a kid, is far better and more dangerous in front of the goal than Dembele or Coutinho, who are both flops of the highest order. Dembele can be useful on the right to widen the play with his pace, and he has this two footedness. But from the left we could see yesterday he is mostly very gifted at losing the ball.

 

As for Coutinho, the footballing world misjudged him when they thought he was a tactically intelligent technical player, when he's just a shot merchant, which might work when you play very direct football, but is a misfit for Barca. Coutinho should never have left Liverpool to be honest. He might even be a good player for Kloppball, but for Barca he's a big flop. Regardless of what you can say about Memphis, he has already significantly outperformed both Dembele and Coutinho.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Eutyphro

[smokeless6]

14 hours ago, Jason said:

Horribly managed from top to bottom

 

I think this is the root of it all. It's run like a political campaign. They'll say the right things, then make decisions to put themselves in the best possible light to bolster re-election chances, not strictly what's best for the club in the near and long term. I might be talking out my ass, I'm not a Barca fan, but that's how it looks from where I sit. Barca's debt is something like 1.5b. Billion! It's massively irresponsible and playing with fire. The pandemic played it's part, I get that. But it doesn't excuse the lousy decision making at the top.

 

Everyday I look at transfer rumors, and Barca's in for this player or that player, which might just be rumors with nothing in it. But they'd be mad to be spenders until this is brought down to manageable levels. Barca's not alone in this regard, but they are in a sense victims of their own success. What I mean is that they pay high wages to ensure they get the player they want. But when it's time to move them on they cannot as other teams can't afford the wage. Coutinho is a perfect example I think. Like I said there are a number of clubs who operate this way, willing to meet the exorbitant demands of players in demand. Maybe some discretion is called for from time to time, reign it in a bit. But Barca says 'we're Barca! we do what we want'. It's brought massive success, they've been incredibly successful over the past 15 years, but I think it's finally caught up with them and the bill is coming due.

[TheSantader25]

Despite all of our problems, one thing I'm 100 percent still certain of, is that Koeman had to go. The timing was bullsh*t and is costing us now. He should have gone before the season started. Either way it had to happen. There's a big chance Xavi will fail as well, but Koeman still had to go. The situation with him was very toxic. He was directly throwing 19 year old players under the boss instead of taking responsibility himself. This is not good for a team in rebuild process.

 

From what I've seen from Xavi so far, he wants to play a football that is currently not sustainable in Barca as we are physically not ready for it yet. He wants full intensity for 90 minutes but we can only do it for 20 minutes each half and get demolished after the first 20 minutes despite a very powerful start. I think in the long run, the team will adapt more and more and can do it for longer. Liverpool couldn't do it at first either.

Edited December 9, 2021 by TheSantader25

[Eutyphro]

Koeman was a decent coach for Barca. Was close to winning something with them when they were in a free fall. What you see under Xavi is that they are decling further. You can criticize playing with a back three against Bayern, but yesterday evening made clear why Koeman chose to do so, because you get torn apart if you don't. And if Sane didn't miss all those tap ins it could easily have been 5-0, in a match that did not even matter anymore for Bayern. As for Xavi, it is not a fair situation for an inexperienced coach like him to even be in.

What Barca should aim for is to try to find a coach that is the most qualified one you could find, I think Luis Enrique, and get a technical director that doesn't make shocking errors in the market, and then give the coach at least three years of faith no matter the result, because this is going to be a bitter several years for Barca where they have to think long term to clean up the mess they made.

[smokeless6]

Right, it takes a certain player to maintain that sort of intensity. This is another thing that plagues clubs who have so much turmoil on the touchline, replacing managers often. Each has their own vision, and signs players to fit it. When a new man comes on board some, many or all of those players no longer fit the manager's vision. Misfits. Depay looks like a good example of this. Clubs are too quick to sack the manager, which is in turn caused by the fact they have no idea if they got the appointment right or wrong. Panic sets in and triggers are pulled.

 

Anyone who plays Football Manager has been through this (you guys play?). A change in formation for example suddenly exposes half the squad as suboptimal. Now you have too many wingers, or not enough ya know? So now Xavi will try to recruit to his vision, but if he's gone in two years these players will face the chop, or ride the pine, disgruntled as their 'dream move'  fails to pan out.

 

Clubs need to have more certainty in their managerial appointments and the temerity to stick it out when things get rough. But it's a difficult balancing act. A string of poor results ramps up the pressure on the board, and most of these people want to be seen as 'doing something' You can't sack the playing staff, so the manager goes, and a new one comes in to essentially start over. And on top of that, when you get the appointment wrong you have to pay gobs of compensation just to fire the man. What did Koeman haul away with him? 10m euros just to not coach there anymore? All of this has a debilitating effect on the club and it all starts at the top.

Edited December 9, 2021 by smokeless6

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Eutyphro said:

As for Coutinho, the footballing world misjudged him when they thought he was a tactically intelligent technical player, when he's just a shot merchant

 

Every one who watches the PL/Liverpool frequently thought Liverpool had robbed Barca blind. It's surprised no one that his Barca career has went as it has, he was supposed to be a replacement for Iniesta when PL fans were saying he was a long shot merchant lol.

 

Liverpool improved after they sold him and perhaps the best way to sum that whole deal up is the money Barca spent on a player which improved Liverpool as a team by selling him was then invested in two players who won them the CL and league.

[TheSantader25]

Koeman failed while having Messi and Griezmann. Xavi has been here for 5 games and has barely had time to do anything with the fixture congestion and injuries. I still have many doubts about him but it's dumb to think he's been worse than Koeman in such a short time. Don't tell me the same Koeman who conceded 6 in the first two CL games without a single shot on target and caused Pedri to relapse could do better in these games. So far at least we've won our first away game under Xavi.

Edited December 9, 2021 by TheSantader25

[Jason]

Most interesting thing coming out of Barca today is that, reportedly, De Jong is for sale among a few others?

 

Haven't watched Barca much but seen that some fans are saying he's not played well recently (but no one in that team is, tbf) but if he's available for the fee reported (€70mish) then that could be an interesting option for United, we need someone with his skills on the ball for sure and I don't think there would be any better options out there for the price.

 

Can't imagine we'd be the only team interested if he is for sale mind you.

[TheSantader25]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

Most interesting thing coming out of Barca today is that, reportedly, De Jong is for sale among a few others?

 

Haven't watched Barca much but seen that some fans are saying he's not played well recently (but no one in that team is, tbf) but if he's available for the fee reported (€70mish) then that could be an interesting option for United, we need someone with his skills on the ball for sure and I don't think there would be any better options out there for the price.

 

Can't imagine we'd be the only team interested if he is for sale mind you.

The fans are 100% behind him. Easily our best player at the moment. It's the sh*tty Catalan media scapegoating him at the moment while giving a pass to the usual suspects. I hope he doesn't collapse under the pressure. Anything below 100m is an absolute steal for FDJ. He has a contract until 2026 and if these rumors are true, it appears that we've completely lost our minds in the market again.

[smokeless6]

Yeah, I'd say he's untouchable, unless a silly offer comes in. But on the other hand, the board have a responsibility to run the club, err, responsibly. They absolutely must cut costs, and if the players they actually want rid of aren't attracting interest then it might be the sort of thing you need to do to balance the books (or at least lean in that direction). Sporting and financial considerations are always at odds in club football.

[Eutyphro]

33 minutes ago, Jason said:

Most interesting thing coming out of Barca today is that, reportedly, De Jong is for sale among a few others?

 

Haven't watched Barca much but seen that some fans are saying he's not played well recently (but no one in that team is, tbf) but if he's available for the fee reported (€70mish) then that could be an interesting option for United, we need someone with his skills on the ball for sure and I don't think there would be any better options out there for the price.

 

Can't imagine we'd be the only team interested if he is for sale mind you.

He's the type of player who could make the entire United puzzle come together. Would be a great move for everyone involved.

[Jason]

Doubt it'll happen and I reckon the board might save their pennies for going all in on Rice in the summer as well.

 

English tax on Rice will probably result in a £100m+ fee for him. 

[smokeless6]

Rice is a good player but I think his reputation is a bit oversized. Part of it comes down to the home grown rule I think.  Maybe I just fail to see his greatness.

 

Interesting subplot for the Liverpool match this week, with Aston Villa and the return to Anfield of Stevie G! He's done really well there so far, what is it, 3 wins out of 4 and the loss was to City. That's a small sample, but he's gotten results and that's what it is all about. I hope it's 3 out of 5 after this weekend, but I also want to see him be successful, my favourite Red. Just not this week!

 

His trajectory right now puts him in place of Klopp when his contract runs out in a couple years. Anything could happen between now and then, but there's an air of inevitability about it all.

Edited December 10, 2021 by smokeless6

[Eutyphro]

Rice looks like a decent DM, but I'm not sure he makes that much of a difference over Mcfred. They need someone more creative than that. The last team that won a lot in a 4231 formation was Bayern, who had either Thiago or Kimmich in that creative deep midfield position. United need a player in that mould, which is what Frenkie is.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

I wasn't massive on Rice for a good while but over the last 12-18 months he's stepped up massively. He's one of the best holding midfielders in the league with good ability on the ball, he's about as perfect as an option for our holding midfield problem as we're going to get, he's just pricey. De Jong would be fantastic but he'd fill another roll, perhaps along side Rice. Not that I expect to get both, and there's good chance we'll get neither.

 

Also it looks like we'll be switching to a 4222 under Rangnick, so our days of 4231 look behind us for now.

[smokeless6]

I'd say Rice is an upgrade at holding mid regardless. Certainly could do worse than add him to the squad.

 

Ox leading the line for Liverpool today, what's up with that?

 

Chelsea came out in what, a 3-4-3? Interesting, and they trail to a Raphinha penalty. Lukaku's out of favor already? Or still not fully fit?

[Girish]

Wow, that Leeds game was painful to watch. Lucky to come out of that with a 3-2 win. I'm surprised how sh*t we are without Kante and Chilwell. Tuchel has to change something because we have 4 intense games coming up before we go up against Liverpool and Man City.

 

At least, for now, we still remain in the title race.

[Girish]

1 hour ago, smokeless6 said:

Chelsea came out in what, a 3-4-3? Interesting, and they trail to a Raphinha penalty. Lukaku's out of favor already? Or still not fully fit?

I'm guessing he's not fully fit to play 90 mins. Otherwise, there's no reason to not give him the whole game when it's clear that we don't have any natural goal scorers upfront. Havertz and Pulisic are not the answer to our goal-scoring problems.

 

I won't be surprised if we end up going for Haaland next summer, though in all probability, he will end up at Man City or Bayern.

[smokeless6]

Yeah Kante's the glue.

 

Three penalties scored in that match. A win's a win.

 

Liverpool did just enough. Top three all won by a single goal.

[Girish]

 

Messi vs Ronaldo is going to dominate that last 16 stage. Although, Atletico-Bayern & Inter-Ajax could be a good watch. The rest, barring any shock defeats, should be pretty standard.

[Jason]

We got drawn against Villareal who we can't play, then we (apparently) weren't in the pot vs Aletico Madrid, then we get Messi vs Ronaldo.

 

You can't make this up.

 

No, really, you can't.

[TheSantader25]

Uefa will milk this draw until they retire. 

 

Lol we're unlucky anywhere we go. Napoli of all teams. This club is cursed.

Edited December 13, 2021 by TheSantader25

[Lonely-Martin]

56 minutes ago, Jason said:

We got drawn against Villareal who we can't play, then we (apparently) weren't in the pot vs Aletico Madrid, then we get Messi vs Ronaldo.

 

You can't make this up.

 

No, really, you can't.

 

It's void and they'll redo it at 2pm (I believe I heard the time right - Definitely void though).

 

Chelsea and Liverpool will be more concerned now, lol.