...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 2)

[Eutyphro]

At least Ajax is absolutely shredding Dortmund, so this is a great night.

 

As for Pool, from how they demolished Watford it can be seen they are top and contenders for every prize. Atleti can be tough, but when I saw 2-2 with Atleti having a red card I was pretty sure they were going to win, and that seems to be happening.

[Candy_Licker]

woops completely demolished by Ajax. They are a really really good, exciting to team. But maybe I just have a soft spot for them cause I'm a stoner.

I really need to get that Bob Marley jersey...

 

 

Switched over to Pool vs Atleti, fun game that. Athletico have so much attacking talent upfront, it's unreal.

[TheSantader25]

Liverpool had the possession but I think Atleti had the better chances throughout the game even when they were down to 10. They were pretty unlucky with the ref. In both seasons that Liverpool won something, they had a very solid defence alongside a powerful attack. This season they are very similar to the 2017/18 Liverpool IMO. Maybe they'll get better later but they need to fix that defense ASAP especially for winning the CL.

[_Dirty_]

Can Liverpool win it all with Salah playing like this? I feel like he's the absolute best player in the world right now.

 

Sporting CP fan here, so good win last night. Wasn't expecting Ajax to trash Dortmund but it looks like they're gonna easily win our group.

[smokeless6]

Salah's in imperious form at the moment. When he's off-song he gets in to a funk where he constantly runs in to dead ends, carrying or holding on to the ball too long, losing possession. This season he's avoided that, and has been as lethal as any attacking player in football.

 

Of course Liverpool can win silverware this year, they have the squad to fight at the top. I'm a supporter and perhaps the weaknesses stand out more. They've gotten the results so far this season, maybe too many draws in the league. But they've got to get the midfield involved in their moves. Diagonal long balls and playing up both flanks can work when you have great wingers and quality all over the pitch. But they feel one-dimensional, and you can see when opposing tactics take this away they've got no plan B. Very few moves go through the center of the park, and they get no goals (and few shots even) from central midfield. Once Thiago's healthy that should improve some, but I'd like to see more balance in their approach play. They struggle when they come against sides stretching it to the touchline or against central defenders who win everything in the air. Their results thus far feel more due to their individual class than to tactics.

 

Three points yesterday were vital, especially away to the second-placed team in the group. Milan's made a mess of their campaign, surprisingly since they look so good in the league. Liverpool are already five points clear at the half-way point in what looked like a very tough group coming in.

Edited October 20, 2021 by smokeless6

[Lonely-Martin]

Can always count on Old Trafford for a bit of entertainment. 

[Jason]

On 10/16/2021 at 5:39 PM, Jason said:

I'd say that knowing Ole he'll get a few scalps from our upcoming run of huge games that'll buy him more time

 

One scalp down!

[Eutyphro]

Conte could achieve good things with that squad. They have quality, but a lack of creativity in midfield. Conte is the coach who knows how to get the best out of that situation. United ended up doing well, but Ole is a coach that keeps making bad choices. Cavani should start and Greenwood should be sub, but Ole has this obsession with starting Greenwood, who is a good player, but also a kid that needs time.

 

I'd start Cavani or Rashford as striker, and play Ronaldo from the left, as I think Ronaldo is more unpredictable and better that way.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

Greenwood's been one of our best players by a mile this season and deserves to start. Before Ronaldo (when Cavani wasn't available) he started up front where he scored a few goals, since then he's started on the right wing where Cavani isn't going to play.

[_Dirty_]

Ronaldo saving Ole again lol.

[Eutyphro]

I wouldn't start Greenwood, as he's selfish and inconsistent. Lingard has made 2 goals in 55 minutes of gametime in the PL, and still on the bench. It's ridiculous. But like I said, Ole plays Greenwood no matter what, and this is only one of many strange Ole decisions, which is why Man U will not live up to the potential of the squad under him.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Eutyphro

[TheSantader25]

Can't wait for the Ole x Koeman showdown in the Europa League final this season. One can only hope.

[Jason]

Lingard deserves a start, but he's not a right winger and plays best in the middle or on the left. Sancho was brought in as a right winger but is still settling in which is why he's not starting over Greenwood yet.

 

Inconsistent, yes, but he's young and Sancho hasn't settled. Selfish? Eh, I suppose in some ways he is but he does provide assists and his shooting often causes keepers problems which can result in rebounds etc.

 

There's players to pick fault with in the United squad but to single out Greenwood is puzzling tbh, I've literally not heard anyone else single him out like that. Ole's inevitable sack will have nothing to do with Greenwood and everything to do with his failure to set up the team well defensively and his ability to coach in good possession play and midfield control. United under Ole relies on individual brilliance to win games and that's not good enough anymore.

 

If we're to single out players Ole starts over anyone else it'd be Fred and to a lesser extent McTominay. He will use Matic here and there but he won't give anyone else (*cough* Donny *cough*) a go in midfield even though Fred and McTominay aren't working anymore.

[Eutyphro]

And yet the most calamity occurs when it is Pogba and/or Matic in dm, and the best results when Fred and Mctominay both start. I'm not a fan of them, but I'd definitely start them. I also think Lingard has more qualities of a right winger than Greenwood. All Greenwood does is shoot. He's a talented young striker, no doubt, but for consistency and results I would never go for him. On this level for him to be a worthwhile player he'd have to make more goals than he does, because making goals is pretty much the only thing he's good at. He provides nothing else, and for a winger that's a problem.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Eutyphro

[Lonely-Martin]

I'm alright with Nuno playing the b-team and looking at the league as more important, so the result doesn't bother me too much for what it means in the ECL.

 

But the midfielders we had on the pitch should be embarrassed. Winks, Alli and Lo Celso were f*cking awful. Couldn't play 2 passes together all night. Clearly they've no interest in getting into the first team and Sanchez once again shows just how well we can wank away nearly 40m, lol.

 

Honestly, aside the academy kids, I'd sack the lot off. No wonder the first team are playing so mixed with not one player pushing for their places.

 

That's the real troubling part to Spurs and it was so clear to see. Would help if the manager was a bit more vocal from the sidelines too.

 

Edit: Could be worse, just saw Jose's Roma got absolutely spanked.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Lonely-Martin

[TheSantader25]

Greenwood is a good player. But I think using him in 4-2-3-1 is wrong. Especially as a winger. I think he will be at his best level when played as a second striker in a 4-4-2. Similar to how Bayern use Muller. But for that to happen United need to completely get rid of Bruno and I don't think Greenwood is good enough yet to warrant changing the team's entire formation just because of him.

 

I think right now if I was United's manager I'd use Ronaldo at the top with Bruno behind. Rashford as left winger. Sancho as right winger and Pogba + McTominay. Btw Donny is a beast for opening up certain defenses and I don't understand Ole's agenda against him. Sancho not performing is also Ole's fault. He's very talented and Ole has failed to unleash his potential.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, TheSantader25 said:

I think right now if I was United's manager I'd use Ronaldo at the top with Bruno behind. Rashford as left winger. Sancho as right winger and Pogba + McTominay.

That's basically our line up lol, except Greenwood on the right while Sancho settles. I'm at the point where I think it's time for a change but I don't see Ole as some excuse for why Greenwood starts or for Sancho's form, it's common for good players to take time to settle into a new league and team, he'll start performing soon enough no doubt, be it under Ole or not.

 

The issue with Pogba in midfield in a 4231 is it relies on the hope that he plays like he does for France in that role and literally every United fan will tell you that it's hope that always ends in disappointment, it's been the same under Mourinho and Ole now, he just doesn't play well there. Perhaps if the team was better in possession and controlled more of the game he'd suit it more, but United's counter attacking style can result in end to end style games and he ends up being a defensive liability.

 

There was talk at the start of the season, and Ole's dabbled in it, that with Varane signing we'd switch to a 4-3-3 with McTominay holding and Bruno and Pogba in midfield but it's barely been tested and honestly I don't think Ole is capable of setting up such a formation tbh.

[Eutyphro]

7 hours ago, Jason said:

 The issue with Pogba in midfield in a 4231 is it relies on the hope that he plays like he does for France in that role and literally every United fan will tell you that it's hope that always ends in disappointment, it's been the same under Mourinho and Ole now, he just doesn't play well there. Perhaps if the team was better in possession and controlled more of the game he'd suit it more, but United's counter attacking style can result in end to end style games and he ends up being a defensive liability.

Except France doesn't play with two holding Dm's and a 10 like United does, but with one holding mid and two cm's. Pogba is a lot more comfortable in that system.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Eutyphro

[TheSantader25]

47 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

Except France doesn't play with two holding Dm's and a 10 like United does, but with one holding mid and two cm's. Pogba is a lot more comfortable in that system.

Also I don't think possession is an issue either. France rely on counter attacks a lot as well. 

[Jason]

4 hours ago, Eutyphro said:

Except France doesn't play with two holding Dm's and a 10 like United does, but with one holding mid and two cm's. Pogba is a lot more comfortable in that system.

 

They have in the past though, like the World Cup in which they won. He showed way more discipline in that team in a 4231 than he ever has for United in the same system.

[Eutyphro]

They played with Matuidi on left wing, who is not a left winger though, didn't really play as such either, and mostly a defensive runner, and Kante, the most effective midfield destroyer in the last 20 years.

[Jason]

That they did, and Kante of course helps but he didn't even have the most amazing tournament tbh, N'Zonzi came on as a sub a few times and in the final for him and was great.

 

And while sure it helps having either of them alongside them it doesn't change the fact that he showed defensive discipline and work rate that he never shows for United in the same position.

[Eutyphro]

I think he consistently has more freedom at France to be honest, and for him to thrive he needs this. He's not a dm or a regista, and he needs freedom to play his game. Therefore he's never going to fit into the formation United play, because United play with 4 all out attack minded players in front of the dm's.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

It's possible, yea, and there were question marks when Bruno came in and reignited the team while Pogba was out injured about how they'd play together, if we'd need to move Pogba on etc, but they combined very well offensively when they eventually started together with Pogba playing in midfield then. Bruno is probably why a 4-3-3 doesn't work, either he's not suited to that role or Ole isn't good enough to coach him into that role like Pep does with players like KDB, both the Silva's etc, but Bruno's our best player and performer so he's not getting dropped for the sake of playing a 4-3-3.

[Eutyphro]

A 433 like that might work with Fred being the holding player. My intuition is it won't with Mctominay, but what you really need is a player like Rodri or Brozovic for that formation. A player with quality in possession and defensive skills that are good. But to be honest, I'm not sure it is the right formation, and it definitely isn't with Ole. It would be quite spectacular though to play in that manner with both Pogba and Fernandes.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

Fred's not  good enough period to play that role I don't think, he's poor on the ball and physically, his main asset his is work rate. McTominay's probably the most suited (Matic being too old to be available for every game now) but he's also not good enough, it's been reported we wanted a midfielder too in the summer.

 

Honestly though, while a top holding midfielder is sorely needed I don't see one player suddenly transforming our defense, midfield and attack into one cohesive unit instead of the team of individuals we have now.

 

It's sad cause all the fans wanted it to work but Ole's taken the team as far as he can take them.

[Lonely-Martin]

Lol. Gamble didn't pay off there for Nuno. 4 derbies lost in short succession and United next week (and regardless of today's result for them, they'll beat us comfy).

 

Can't see Nuno last the season at all, not that we'll get a decent replacement, lol. We're completely out of ideas other than pass square/backwards. We're just so predictable and boring. 

 

Fair play to West Ham though, playing well under Moyes of late.

[Jason]

Reckon there's a slim chance both United and Spurs will have new managers when they meet next week. More chance Spurs do than United knowing the Glazer's right now but the inevitable is coming for Ole.

[Eutyphro]

Yeah, the great sacking incoming. Whoever said that Liverpool is not up to it was off. Liverpool is a damn good team to be honest. I'm wondering whether Solskjaer is even going to make the second half of this game as United coach lol

 

Anyway, I think Conte to United is a great idea.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Eutyphro

[TheSantader25]

Ole x Koeman swap deal incoming.