...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 2)

[Eutyphro]

Yeah, I just saw it as well, the friendly. I think you're right about Messi's physicality, I already mentioned it. Weird how the literal best player can be a liability in this respect, but I think Coutinho as winger is not a great option. But yeah, it seems to be what it is. If you have a very skilled right back it also gives the right winger more freedom.

For right back I like Youcef Atal:
 

 

[Guns a-Blazin]

Bayern just thrashed Schalke 04 8-0 on Bundesliga opening day. I can see Bayern winning the UCL (again).

 

Also, Bale and Thiago are great signings for the PL. Thiago will probably edge Liverpool towards the title now whilst a "not so injured" Bale will probably get Spurs a Top 4 place. 

 

Might have to change my PL predictions now lol.

 

[Len Lfc]

1 hour ago, FortifiedGooner86 said:

Bayern just thrashed Schalke 04 8-0 on Bundesliga opening day. I can see Bayern winning the UCL (again).

 

Also, Bale and Thiago are great signings for the PL. Thiago will probably edge Liverpool towards the title now whilst a "not so injured" Bale will probably get Spurs a Top 4 place. 

 

Might have to change my PL predictions now lol.

 

As a Liverpool fan, I feel saying confident we could win both may be seen as egotistical, somewhat. But I don't see City winning the league, and it's too early for Chelsea. We were an Alisson injury away from progressing past Atleti, and who know what could have happened after that. I feel confident we can seriously challenge for both. Either way, it's looking exciting. I just wish fans were allowed in stadiums to watch all this  

[Guns a-Blazin]

1 hour ago, Len Lfc said:

As a Liverpool fan, I feel saying confident we could win both may be seen as egotistical, somewhat. But I don't see City winning the league, and it's too early for Chelsea. We were an Alisson injury away from progressing past Atleti, and who know what could have happened after that. I feel confident we can seriously challenge for both. Either way, it's looking exciting. I just wish fans were allowed in stadiums to watch all this  

Yeah, I feel it's between you and City again. I actually put City as favourites but you just don't know in the PL. Anything can happen...

 

I'd say you and Bayern are the favourites for the UCL though. I think you'll win at least one major trophy this season. I mean, you've got to right?

 

And yeah, it'd be better with fans. They're one of the best things about Football. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by FortifiedGooner86

[TheSantader25]

Seems like Corona has pretty much crippled every team in the transfer market except for PL teams. If things stay the same PL teams will keep getting stronger with their much more stable revenue in comparison to other leagues. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by TheSantader25

[Laker23]

12 hours ago, Len Lfc said:

As a Liverpool fan, I feel saying confident we could win both may be seen as egotistical, somewhat. But I don't see City winning the league, and it's too early for Chelsea. We were an Alisson injury away from progressing past Atleti, and who know what could have happened after that. I feel confident we can seriously challenge for both. Either way, it's looking exciting. I just wish fans were allowed in stadiums to watch all this  

100% you'll win it. Thiago is a ridiculously good signing and although I'm surprised at you guys going for Jota, he's an excellent option to come off the bench.

 

I've been avoiding United transfer news much more this off season, and that seems to have been a good decision so far.

[Tchuck]

Thiago is an incredible buy. Really superb player. 

[TheSantader25]

City need a left back and a CB if they wanna be at Liverpool's level. They'll be in even bigger trouble if Aguero's decline is upon them as well. It's insane that they have fallen behind Liverpool this much after all these signings. It's Liverpool's to lose this season. If they don't choke they'll easily win the league again. Thiago is a f*cking beast. I've never hated anyone's departure more than him. History could be different in football if he was with us in the post Xavi era. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by TheSantader25

[Jason]

3 hours ago, Laker23 said:

I've been avoiding United transfer news much more this off season, and that seems to have been a good decision so far.

Transfer window isn't even over and Ed Woodward has already put out a puff piece to make him self look better.

 

Sky and ESPN are saying United fans have no reason to be frustrated though, apparently we're just petty that every single time we miss CL qualification we spend big, then every time we qualify for CL and we're in the position to make the step up, we cut back spending greatly. It's almost as if it's all happened before and the talk from the club is nothing more than waffle to make up for the fact that the Glazers want their dividends this season.

 

Got a manager who is completely backed by the players, who got us to 3rd, who is signing good players for us which is a first since Fergie, and the board are going to fail him like they did with Moyes, LVG and Mourinho and repeat this merry-go-round with a new manager next season.

[Eutyphro]

Yeah, Thiago is really that special player to improve their squad. Indeed Liverpool are favorites now for me as well, and Santander is right about the issues for City.

 

As for United, yeah, when Chelsea get both Ziyech and Havertz you're doing something wrong on the market. Either of these would've been great for Man U, and Chelsea got both lol

 

[Len Lfc]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Got a manager who is completely backed by the players, who got us to 3rd, who is signing good players for us which is a first since Fergie, and the board are going to fail him like they did with Moyes, LVG and Mourinho and repeat this merry-go-round with a new manager next season.

I still don't see Ole being anywhere near good enough for Man Utd, for what/where you want to be. At least from the outside looking in. Reminds me of Rodgers at Liverpool. Nice guy, had the right ideas, but just wasn't good enough. Both get lucky with having certain players carry them through. Really just feels like having Ole in charge keeps things peaceful and avoids any controversies, etc.

[Eutyphro]

My god I almost forgot how bad Harry Maguire is. 90 million? Lmfao

[Jason]

50 minutes ago, Len Lfc said:

I still don't see Ole being anywhere near good enough for Man Utd, for what/where you want to be. At least from the outside looking in. Reminds me of Rodgers at Liverpool. Nice guy, had the right ideas, but just wasn't good enough. Both get lucky with having certain players carry them through. Really just feels like having Ole in charge keeps things peaceful and avoids any controversies, etc.

Whether or not Ole is good enough long term is irrelevant at this moment in time though, that's the thing. We'll never know if he's not backed properly.

[Len Lfc]

Just now, Jason said:

Whether or not Ole is good enough long term is irrelevant at this moment in time though, that's the thing. We'll never know if he's not backed properly.

I get your point. But if rival fans are happy for you to have him in charge, that says something. I know not all fans know what they're talking about. But still, nobody are worried about United under Ole. I'm worried more about the players you sign, and who will be in charge after Ole, if those players are still there under the next manager. Similar with Frank at Chelsea. I think he'll be a quality manager/coach. But it's still too early, and he's got a long way to go.

[Jason]

31 minutes ago, Len Lfc said:

I get your point. But if rival fans are happy for you to have him in charge, that says something. I know not all fans know what they're talking about. But still, nobody are worried about United under Ole. I'm worried more about the players you sign, and who will be in charge after Ole, if those players are still there under the next manager. Similar with Frank at Chelsea. I think he'll be a quality manager/coach. But it's still too early, and he's got a long way to go.

Rival fans talking sh*t means nothing lol. People are simply enjoying United meandering still after the Fergie era. Ole did something Mourinho was never able to do here, which is turn around a really bad patch of form and keep the dressing room on his side while doing it. Sometimes you don't need to be the most tactically gifted, Zidane isn't, hell, Fergie wasn't either. Good man management can go a long way and Ole has done well in that area so far.

 

I'd much rather see us back Ole and see how far he can take us rather than not back him and repeat the same mistakes again. He's done nothing other than earn the right to have that chance. People banging on about Bruno carrying us or whatever are people who have no clue about the team. Ole's impact on players like Martial, Rashford and Greenwood has been massive, those three were just as important as Bruno last season.

 

Edit: That penalty farce is an absolute f*cking disgrace. Jesus Christ.

[Len Lfc]

20 minutes ago, Jason said:

Rival fans talking sh*t means nothing lol. People are simply enjoying United meandering still after the Fergie era. Ole did something Mourinho was never able to do here, which is turn around a really bad patch of form and keep the dressing room on his side while doing it. Sometimes you don't need to be the most tactically gifted, Zidane isn't, hell, Fergie wasn't either. Good man management can go a long way and Ole has done well in that area so far.

 

I'd much rather see us back Ole and see how far he can take us rather than not back him and repeat the same mistakes again. He's done nothing other than earn the right to have that chance. People banging on about Bruno carrying us or whatever are people who have no clue about the team. Ole's impact on players like Martial, Rashford and Greenwood has been massive, those three were just as important as Bruno last season.

Fair enough. All that matters is what you/your fanbase feels. All I'd say is we've been there before. Thinking we had something that could be good, but United fans from the outside looking in knew what we actually had wasn't a concern to them. Now we're where you were, we see what you used to see about Liverpool in the 90's/2000's.

[Jason]

14 minutes ago, Len Lfc said:

Fair enough. All that matters is what you/your fanbase feels. All I'd say is we've been there before. Thinking we had something that could be good, but United fans from the outside looking in knew what we actually had wasn't a concern to them. Now we're where you were, we see what you used to see about Liverpool in the 90's/2000's.

I aint saying Ole is the man, I don't think any United fan is, but we at least need to find out. We could have Pep but he isn't going to work if we don't support him in the transfer window, managers need players that fit their system and Ole is no different to any other manager in that regard.

 

United's problems right now aren't the manager is the simplest way to put it.

 

Well that match proved a couple of things:

 

1) That we need more signings like VDB. Pogba was awful, we subbed him off for VDB who scored a goal. Our impact striker? Ighalo.

2) Pre-season is important, it's a shame we literally didn't have one.

3) Premier League refs are still useless.

[Laker23]

Well, it's great to be back, isn't it? Jesus.

 

Am I remembering wrong or could you not switch your penalty taker if it was ordered to be retaken in the past? Was surprised to see Zaha standing over the second.

 

Absolute penalties galore so far this season.

[Len Lfc]

2 minutes ago, Laker23 said:

Well, it's great to be back, isn't it? Jesus.

 

Am I remembering wrong or could you not switch your penalty taker if it was ordered to be retaken in the past? Was surprised to see Zaha standing over the second.

 

Absolute penalties galore so far this season.

When a penalty is ordered to be retaken, it technically hasn't been taken yet, so you can change the taker, as it hasn't officially been taken to be changed. If that makes sense.

[Jason]

One game, could be tomorrow, could be next week, a defender is going to handle the ball in the exact same way as Lindelof and it won't be given. One game, could be tomorrow, could be next week, a goalkeeper is going to be an inch off his line in the exact same way as De Gea and it won't be retaken. One game, could be tomorrow, could be next week, a goalkeeper is going to be a mile off his line but the player will score and it won't be retaken.

 

It's as sure as the sunrise tomorrow. What's hilarious is that they're now using the monitor and it's not changed a damn thing, the refs just aren't good. They will absolutely not apply any of those rules consistently, hell, there's a good chance these rules change mid season officially or unofficially.

 

Who knows if it would have changed the game cause Christ we were awful but yea. United fans are livid about the transfer window, livid about the performance and livid about the refereeing. Not a good opening day for us at all lol.

[Eutyphro]

Seeing Maguire's on the ball skills, and then remembering how Bayern plays Alaba as a centerback because of how important those skills are, it's shocking they paid 90 million for that, because he isn't even close to good enough for the highest level. I was also looking at Fosu-Mensah, thinking he'd be much better playing out from the back than Maguire. Fosu-Mensah is a big talent, will be a far better player than Maguire will ever be, and he didn't cost 90 million.

 

United has a midfield that is potentially good now with VDB added, but yeah, Pogba and Bruno were awful today. I also don't really like Daniel James that much, and think he shouldn't be starter. Indeed they need more attacking options really, but Chelsea already signed all of them I guess. Maybe United can bring in Giroud now that Chelsea have Werner lol? Would genuinely be a great player for them. They need to do something.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

Fosu-Mensah is no where near good or enough and United fans are absolutely puzzled how he's starting. He couldn't get in Fulham's side two years ago and he shouldn't be anywhere near this side now - he's 22 as well, he should be making his claim for a place in the squad by now and he isn't doing that.

 

Dan James was well suited to us when he arrived as we relied heavily on the counter attack but especially since signing Bruno and settled on a midfield of Bruno, Pogba and Matic we became much stronger on the ball and James lost all usefulness. Saying this, he's a left winger by trade so he's out of position but that just sums up our right wing problems - playing a squad player on the wrong wing.

 

As for Maguire, both our CB's were awful and Maguire isn't world class by any means but he massively improved our defence last season. In an ideal world we'd have Rio and Vidic level CB's there but given where we're at right now, Maguire is fine for now, the odd clip makes him look dreadful but as someone who watched almost all United games last season he was reliable in 9/10 games, which is more than you can say for any of our other CB's.

[Eutyphro]

The fact that Ranieri sacrifices the young cb when the team is in trouble, which is the typical Italian tendency to value experience over talent, and then still concedes an absolutely massive amount of goals and gets fired, doesn't prove much. Fosu-Mensah has also had a lot of inuries, and therefore last few seasons were rough, but he's shone in the past. I remember a game where he absolutely denied Sane at Palace. I think you're as wrong about Fosu-Mensah as you were about Mctominay, who actually played decent as well against Palace. But boarding the WhY iS fOsu mEnSah PlaYiN???? fan rage train is much easier.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

What was I wrong about with McTominay? Under Ole he has been overall pretty damn good, though he's struggled as holding midfielder on the ball in his last few games.

 

As for Fosu, literally everytime he has played for United he's been woeful. I'd love to be proven wrong but he has been one of the worst players on the pitch every time he has played for us and again, he's 22. That's young but it's old enough that he should be showing quality and he's showing none for us. Yea he's been sadly hit hard by injuries but that doesn't change the situation. The only reason he's starting is because Williams is not available, AWB's not fit enough and Ole doesn't like Dalot at all.

 

This sums up our right side today:

 

 

The players had no faith in that right side.

[Eutyphro]

When Maguire was around 22 he was mostly on the bench at Hull. Fosu-Mensah at that age is mostly on the bench at United after suffering a lot of injuries for seasons in a row. You can guess who's doing better.

[Jason]

Again, Fosu's literally third choice and hasn't been involved in the squad in years until the last 3 or so United games, he will likely be back into the reserves or out on loan when Williams and AWB are back. Teden Mengi will likely take his role this season if I had to guess, he's someone who is very highly rated by the club and Ole.

 

Also the comparison to Maguire, sure, if that was what he was doing at the time, but he developed and kicked on. Fosu could do that too, there's plenty of time in his career still to settle at a high level but United are not Hull. If players aren't performing, regardless of potential or age, they aren't good enough. This is why we've loaned him out multiple times so he can kick on in his development and come back the better player but he hasn't kicked on yet. Maybe in a few years we'll look back and be like "damn, why did we let him go?" but that's the life of a big club trying to challenge for titles.

[Lonely-Martin]

Seems our league's teams need to be bringing in defenders with no arms, that or they need to strap them to their sides, lol. 

 

It's ridiculous how that type of thing is a penalty. Twice this weekend now and it makes the Prem look weak. Embarrassing how a ref can go look at it pitchside and think that's a pen.

 

Luckily for us it had no impact on the actual result though. Son n Kane linking up well as usual. Sweet. Need a quality centre back I feel though.

[Eutyphro]

Fosu-Mensah can't be a lot worse than Lindelof was against Palace to be honest. Maguire at least has his size to go for him. If you pair up Maguire with Fosu-Mensah's speed and ball playing ability you might have a good pair. And you are right that Fosu-Mensah might still flop as well, we don't know. But it has always been quite obvious to me that he was one of the most talented young centerbacks in the world who showed amazing tackles, and had good games, even at United he showed good things. He's 22, plagued by injuries, and centerbacks have a long time to get good. 22 is very young for a centerback.

Because United are playing the same 4231 Bayern play, I was comparing them in my mind with Bayern. And from that perspective they have to do better playing out from the back. All I'm saying is I think Fosu-Mensah might bring that quality over time. Fosu-Mensah is quite generally a very useful sub, because he plays many positions, potentially even midfield. So he's a good squad player, and it's a bad idea to sell him. No reason to make him a scapegoat.

From what I saw Bruno and Pogba were just awful, and Rashford was quite bad as well. It seems a lot of United still has to find form, and they should also start Greenwood in stead of Daniel James. But yeah, United need more attacking options, and like I said, even Giroud would be a great option for them. They need an extra striker or winger, because Ighalo is a joke at this level.

[TheSantader25]

United need a natural goal scorer more than anything. Doesn't necessarily have to be a 9. Someone like Werner or Mo Salah to bring in goals regularly. Rashford and Martial ain't that guy and Greenwood is too young to have that kind of pressure on him. That should be their number one priority IMO. Their defense is not perfect. But there are more important things than their defense to fix atm. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by TheSantader25

[Lonely-Martin]

To be honest, I am surprised we've not had our resolve tested more by a team like United in trying to get Kane, lol.

 

Course, I'm glad naturally. But in the past we've just not been able to keep a player of that quality. Hopefully it means we're stepping up a bit by keeping the lad and adding to it with the likes of Bale etc.