...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 2)

[Eutyphro]

Amazing evening with the last minute goal against Benfica

I've only seen highlights of Juve - United, but the data indicates Juve thoroughly outclassed United, which is not very surprising, though before the match I expected United to get a goal. I think Martial - Lukaku - Rashford is a promising attacking line up.

[Guest]

Good result for us, 0-1 at Old Trafford that practically secured our qualification to the last 16. First half was completely in our control, Man UTD did a lot of mistakes... But more or less the opposite happened during the second half, fortunately our defense (and a goalpost on Pogba's shot) helped a lot. IMO the biggest problem of Man UTD at the moment is in the defense, Shaw for example was terrible in the first half... Mourinho could have some faults, but changing the coach won't resolve anything.

It's a bad moment and I know how you're feeling, it's a thing that we experienced after 2006 for many years. You need to have a lot of pacience, I'm sure that Man UTD will be back soon, hopefully before it's too late... Valencia could always be a problem if they arrive to play against Man UTD hoping for a spot in the last 16, especially considering that the 2nd leg will be played at Mestralla.

 

Shame on a part of Juventus fans at Old Trafford, the insults at the end of the match for Mourinho weren't needed at all (they basically said "Mourinho piece of sh*t").

Edited October 23, 2018 by Wolver_321

[Eutyphro]

I primarily support Ajax, not United, though I watch the Premier League a lot, and within the Premier League I support United somehow, and am a little obsessed with their misfortune. I haven't seen United this evening, but I'm more inclined to think the issue is in midfield. They're inconsistent in possession and do not create enough for the forwards in my opinion. They should get Frenkie de Jong from Ajax, who is pretty much the new Modric, and showed a lot of class tonight as well. That's the type of player to make them strong.

I mean, we, Ajax, now have 7 points out of three with Daley Blind in central defence. If you have class in possession your defence won't matter as much, though I guess you do need good fullbacks, and Shaw does need more consistency.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Eutyphro

[Crokey]

46 minutes ago, Wolver_321 said:

Shame on a part of Juventus fans at Old Trafford, the insults at the end of the match for Mourinho weren't needed at all (they basically said "Mourinho piece of sh*t").

Is that all the insults they've got?!?.... they've got a lot to learn.

 

Good result for City tonight, first English team to win in Ukraine against Shaktar as well.

[Tchuck]

Is it even an insult if it's true?

 

But yeah, good result for Juve, their spot on the next stage pretty much assured.

 

And there's El Clasico coming up this Monday! 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Crokey said:

Is that all the insults they've got?!?.... they've got a lot to learn.

 

Good result for City tonight, first English team to win in Ukraine against Shaktar as well.

 

4 hours ago, Tchuck said:

Is it even an insult if it's true?

 

But yeah, good result for Juve, their spot on the next stage pretty much assured.

 

And there's El Clasico coming up this Monday! 

Ahahah, yep there are "better" insults in other stadiums, but it makes no sense at all that 1000+ people insulted  him at 89th minute... If you watch the end of the match you'll clearly hear only Juve fans (in Italian of course) and in some frames you'll be able to see lots of medium fingers.

 

I'm really curious to see El Clasico, sadly Marcelo won't playing it.

[Tchuck]

A defeat will definitely spell the end for Lopetegui, imo. It's amazing how losing Ronaldo and Zidane just completely changed the entire team. Bale failing to fill Ronaldo's shoes. This was his chance to shine and show his worth, and he's been really blowing it.

[Laker23]

Well, can't say I didn't see that coming. Thoroughly outclassed. 

 

Lukaku needs a rest, he's comfortably been one of our worst performers of the season and has declined at an alarming rate. Guy has barely had a rest so it's not surprising, same goes for Matic, he's been shocking.

 

Silver lining was the draw between Valencia and Young Boys, that still puts us firmly in the driving seat to take the runner up spot, although going to Spain is never easy for us.

[Jason]

We can't play out from the back. Watching Bonucci spray balls about like Pirlo while Smalling and Lindelof hoof it all over the joint was embarrassing. It means our midfield has to drop about 20-30 yards deeper than they should so they can start the attacks and then the gap between midfield and the forwards is way too big.

[Guest]

At Conte's house there's a party tonight, all Barcelona staff and players are invited!

Jokes aside, I never expected to see Real in such a big trouble, did really Ronaldo and Zidane destroy the team so much after their departure? A 5-1 is embarassing, especially against your historical opponent!

According to a lot of rumors Conte will be next Real Madrid manager in only 48 hours, if this happens I want to congratulate with him... Even if I didn't like the way he left us, 8 years ago he was in our 2nd/3rd division, a jump from Siena to Real Madrid in less than 10 years is an astonishing result. He's a good coach, I'm really curious to see what he can do at Real but I don't want to have him as an opponent, in the recent years there has been too many Juventus-Real Madrid in the UCL

[Eutyphro]

I don't really know whether Conte is right for Madrid. Madrid won under Zidane on pure technical and scoring ability. I've always found them defensively weak, even in their incredible triple Champions League winning streak. Their defensive vulnerability is largely due to on the left side Marcelo neglecting defensive duties (though he is an absolutely genius player don't get me wrong), and Kroos being defensively weak and slow. But they used to dominate so much that it did not even matter that much. Apart from that, Ramos has never been a truly great defender. I don't really see Conte as a good fit for a squad centered around technical and offensive class, but we'll see if he gets appointed and how it works out. Conte is a coach who demands very high work rate and defensive discipline, but I don't see that as the key for Real to start winning again. I just think what they need is a striker that can actually score goals.

As for why Real is in decline, it's obvious. Without Cristiano they have a similar issue as the Spanish national team sometimes has, their scoring ability is too low. Isco, Benzema, Asensio, Modric, what do all these technically gifted players have in common? They score very few goals. Hence why I argued they should've splashed out for Lewandowski. Even if Lewandowski was unattainable, they should've minimally bought back Higuain, who went to AC Milan. Or go after Cavani. They should've done anything other than leave a fifty goal hole in their squad, which is filled with technically gifted players that do not score goals. Apart from that, many of their players are around 30 years old and in decline.

At the start of the second half Real dominated Barca but didn't score enough. Then through some formation switches and Nacho being an incredible donkey they lost all grip on the match and Suarez ran riot.

[Tchuck]

I agree. Real needs a very offensive-minded coach, one who will say bollocks to defending and just try to score one more than the adversary. They have to break the bank on a major winter transfer to renovate their offensive line. Cavani would probably be attainable, since he's feeling a bit out of it in Neymar and Mbappe's company. Get both, him and Lewandowski. Ship Benzema elsewhere. Go on a 4-3-3 with Bale, Lewandowski, Cavani upfront. Gegenpressing all the way.

[Crokey]

RIP Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, and the other members of the crew of the helicopter, it's going to be difficult times for Leicester right now.

[Miro]

It's actually surprising that so many people are shocked by the state of Real Madrid right now, but realistically, all of it adds up. Gareth Bale was never really a top player at all ever since his first season when they won the Decima, and ever since he's either been Cristiano Ronaldo's bitch or simply was too much injured, so from the very start, to attribute all the pressure on him was delusional. Benzema has been pretty crap already at finishing for the past three seasons already, and besides a couple stupid goals scored against Bayern Munchen in the Semi-Final last year and that stupid goal against Lloris Karius in the final against Liverpool, Benzema has done literally nothing for the entire season. 

 

I am not going to judge based on the coach because beside the first season of Zinedine Zidane, all his other trophies were out of pure luck and mostly favorable circumstances, it's stupid to rank him at the top of the coaching hierarchy considering that week-in week-out in La Liga Real Madrid have been playing sh*t pretty much.

 

As for the UEFA Champions League, let's remember how they won it in 2016 with that amazing hattrick of Cristiano Ronaldo bailing them out home against Wolfsburg after they lost 2-0 away. And then that off-side equalizer which proves fatal for Atletico Madrid in the final. Let's remember the 2017 UEFA Champions League which was basically one of the biggest robberies ever, with those offside goals against Bayern Munchen and basically all the other favorable decisions. Let's remember 2018, with that awful referee mistake against Juventus, with that last-minute penalty. Let's remember the final, with those two stupid goals scored thanks to Lloris Karius. 

 

Needless to say how many games Sergio Ramos won or saved them with last-minute goals. And obviously the VAR technology. I know this might sound subjective, but the 2017 La Liga they won was mostly due to all the referee decisions against Barcelona and favorable to Real Madrid. And even then they barely won it in the last game of the season.

 

So yeah, all in all, the truth is that Real Madrid has been pretty sh*t for three years already, basically since Carlo Ancelotti left. They were either lucky, favored, or simply had someone like Cristiano Ronaldo or Sergio Ramos to occasionally bail them out. Florentino Perez has not invested in huge transfers ever since 2013 when he brought in Gareth Bale. Everyone else brought in after that was pretty average to be honest. Lucas Vazquez is pretty average, and so is Marco Asensio. Toni Kroos has been pretty crap ever since he started being an asshole about the German national team, and Raphael Varane pretty much became cocky after winning the World Cup. Sergio Ramos was never really that great of a defender, and Marcelo is a great player but can't honestly be everywhere and also score. Thibaut Curtois can't really do much with that defense, and blaming him after three months is ridiculous. 

[Tchuck]

sh*t, when you lose a 50-goal-a-year striker, and do not replace him... Yeah, bad times are coming.

[Jason]

Losing Ronaldo and not replacing him is a big reason but Madrid have been poor in the transfer market for a few years now. They assembled a truly world class squad, one of the greatest of all time, but never sought to improve it. They bought young, completely unproven players and then even sold their proven back up and rotation players like Morata and James.

 

Barcelona did the same sort of thing back when they had Xavi and Iniesta running the show. They simply went around the top European leagues and plucked some decent but not great players that were performing for good clubs and then sat them on the bench for the entire stint at the club. Then once those key players started losing their legs or left, the whole thing fell apart.

 

It's really difficult to sustain success because you can't keep the same team for 4-5 years and expect it to pull trophy winning seasons out the bag every year. You need to always look be looking for players to improve the squad or even just freshen it up. The only team that's been able to achieve that in the last few decades was United and that was because the manager and board (Fergie and Gill) were in total agreement together. The same can not be said for the Madrid and Barca boards.

[Guest]

Have you heard about the new Football Leaks case? Apparently UEFA paid some clubs for not create the famous "Super League", which was very near in 2016.

Teams involved are...

1) Founders (11 clubs) - These clubs should remain in the Super League for 20 years:

- Real Madrid

- Barcelona

- Manchester United

- Juventus

- Chelsea

- Arsenal

- Paris Saint Germain

- Manchester City

- Liverpool

- AC Milan

- Bayern Munchen

2) Guests (5 clubs):

- Atletico Madrid

- Borussia Dortmund

- Olympique Marseille

- Inter Milan

- AS Roma

TOTAL: 5 English teams, 4 Italian teams, 3 Spanish teams, 2 French teams and 2 German teams

 

On this topic we can argue about so many things, from the teams that should play to whether or not it's a good idea. Regarding the teams, I honestly don't understand why teams like Milan, Chelsea and Arsenal are in the "founders" list. Milan might be there just because they won 7 UCL, but Chelsea and Arsenal don't have the same european history. Atletico Madrid maybe deserved to be in the founders list, Inter could be replaced with Napoli that probably deserved more that place in these last years. OM is probably there just for making a total of 2 French teams...

IMO the possibility of seeing this idea becoming reality is very big, clubs involved could make so much money from this, because they'd have the freedom of choosing their sponsors (in the UCL there are always "Heineken", "Gazprom", "PS4 Pro", etc.). But how will this work? Will it replace the UCL and/or the national championships? No relegations? Always the same teams? How will the market transfer work?

In theory this Super League should take place from 2021, just 1 year before the World "Christmas" Cup. 

I don't know if I'd like to see a sort of NBA applied to football, but I guess that our opinion won't count as much when there are bilions of euros involved. 

[Crokey]

It's the same re-hash of similar plans that were drawn up back in the 70s when the EC (later EU) was forming, although there were different teams involved the idea was still the same.  Every time it gets brought up the same points are also raised that following a relegation the chances are the home nation of the team will likely relegate them to the bottom tier of the league structure to avoid upsetting recently promoted teams to the domestic top tier. 

 

For example if Man United were relegated from the European Super League, and say Leeds United, Nottingham Forest and Derby County were promoted from the Championship, none of those three sides would allow Man United to take their place in the Premier League, and so on and so forth down the league structure.  So the Football Association would only allow them to rejoin at League 2 level (4th and bottom tier), although that would annoy a National League side, they're not technically part of the Football League.  So a relegation from the European Super League would in effect put them out of business, as they would be writing cheques that they can't cash as sponsors would pull out, wages would be well out of range, facilities costs would be extremely high.

 

Those who are pushing the idea are trying to Franchise football like America does with it's sports, but they forget that only North America operates on that model. Recent surveys and studies have found that this model isn't working anymore as North American fans are starting to understand the whole loyalty idea that fans in the rest of the world have been doing for decades if not centuries.  For example the recent move of the Rams to LA from St Louis pissed off a whole bunch of fans in St Louis, just like it pissed off LA fans when they moved to St Louis in the 90s.  In more local terms for the UK, people, including me, can't stand MK Dons as they took a perfectly good team called Wimbledon and moved them to Milton Keynes, which is like.... erm feck off Milton Keynes, start your own team and come up through the ranks like everyone else you cheating pricks.

 

Honestly, I can't see it working, especially as it would be a killer for away fans having to travel all over the place and attendances have hardly been on the up for most clubs these days as it is.

[Jason]

I don't think even it's worth it long term money wise, tbh. The CL is special because we don't get games like United - Madrid or Juventus - Barca every year (apart from times when Arsenal kept drawing Bayern and Barca, of course). If you make all those match ups a regular thing those matchups would lose everything that makes them special. No more classic European nights.

 

Not only that but all these top teams are used to finishing top 4 every year, winning most their games. If you're suddenly playing one of the very best teams every week then there's gonna be top teams losing a ton of games in a season, which would hurt those teams long term especially when it comes to keeping players and recruiting them IMO.

 

It's a proposal that's riddled with issues from top to bottom and it's embarrassing to see United associated with it, which I'm sure fans of the other clubs can say for their club too.

[dante財閥]

Just a way for the big boys to make sure they don't lose money when they don't qualify for CL. It's an entitlement issue really.

 

On 11/4/2018 at 1:37 AM, Jason said:

It's a proposal that's riddled with issues from top to bottom and it's embarrassing to see United associated with it, which I'm sure fans of the other clubs can say for their club too.

You'd be surprised. If had endless "banter" about Spurs not being invited.

[Tchuck]

Lol PSG. What good is winning 12 out of 12 in their home league, and fail at the Champions League? Now they must win against Liverpool, or have to be content with just their farmer league.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Tchuck said:

Lol PSG. What good is winning 12 out of 12 in their home league, and fail at the Champions League? Now they must win against Liverpool, or have to be content with just their farmer league.

Well, the League 1 is probably the most "one-team championship" in the last years... No one in France can't compete with them, they have so much money to spend and their tecnical level is far more higher than the other 19 clubs. Napoli is a very good team, lot of times in the UCL is underrated because of their bad results achieved with their previous managers (Sarri too), Ancelotti probably gave them that European experience that was needed. The group C is very very interesting at this point, Red Star played an astonishing match that, somehow, could put them in the fight for a place in the last 16 or in the UEL. Liverpool-PSG will probably decide who will go through to the last 16...

[Tchuck]

Napoli did immensely well last year, challenging for the title all the way to the end. Would have been wonderful for them to have won to break the Juventus stranglehold.

 

And yeah, Ligue 1 is basically a 1 team league. No-one can challenge PSG. Simply no-one. As a result, they don't know how to play against strong teams. I'm hoping so much for them to fail cause I despise Neymar and want to see him sink to get some well-needed humility. 

 

I believe Liverpool will beat PSG next round, with Napoli seeing off Red Star. 

[Guest]

Tutorial: How to waste a good match that could secure the 1st in the group stage in the UCL!

Uploaded by: Juventus FC

 

I really don't know what to say, we deserved that, but we didn't deserve that... We've dominated the match for 80 minutes but, as we normally do in Serie A, we can't secure the win, we always remain with a 1 goal lead that could be very ease to catch up. 2 posts, Cuadrado missed a moving penalty, Pjanic wasted a good occasion... I mean, at the end we've deserved that! Fortunately for us this loss doesnt' change so much, we're still in 1st place and with 2 matches that, on paper, should be not so difficult, but what really pisses me off is the wasted opportunity of playing 2 matches with our "B Team" considering that in Serie A we'll soon have to deal with Milan, Inter, Roma, Fiorentina and Atalanta.

BTW I'm kinda happy for United fans, you deserve to pass and I really hope for you that this victory could help you, not only in the UCL.

[Jason]

Juve missed some good chances but he match was won and lost by the subs and the tactical changes with them. Allegri's were poor and Mourinho's were good.

 

We weren't as negative as some fans may believe, we were pressing high and committing people forward but obviously it's not easy against a team better than us in most areas of the pitch. Maybe there was a bit of a classic smash'n'grab feel to it cause the second goal was messy but yea, we weren't awful and didn't not deserve something from the game.

 

But yea, huge huge win for us, we massively needed a win like that for so many reasons. We have a very good chance of getting through the groups now, it was looking a bit glum at 1-0. The team is clearly behind Mourinho which is not something I expected to say a few months ago, even the press have quietened down for the time being. We're on a decent run now but we do have the Manchester derby coming up and that's always a debbie downer to lose.

[Doc Rikowski]

I take back all the BS I wrote about CR7 in this forum in the past years. Now that he plays for my team I love him. I admit that my judgement on football matters is strongly biased by my football's fanboyism. 

[Eutyphro]

Cristiano is honestly one of the greatest of all time, and his history of performing has been so good that in recent years it genuinely brought me to doubt whether Messi was objectively better.

As for next gen talent, this Tahith Chong kid is really one to look out for. Kind of a Sané that cuts inside and shoots like Robben. I have high expectations of this kid. He's very unique.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Eutyphro

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Doc Rikowski said:

I take back all the BS I wrote about CR7 in this forum in the past years. Now that he plays for my team I love him. I admit that my judgement on football matters is strongly biased by my football's fanboyism. 

Ahahahah, we're in 2! 

Well, after all the goals he scored against us he kinda deserved that! I've never been a Ronaldo fan, I always preferred Messi. Also add the fact that I don't like LaLiga and yes, I don't even watch El Clasico: the last match I've seen in the Spanish championship was probably that "final" between Barcelona and Atletico Madrid which finished 1-1. Champions League was something almost unknown for us before 2012, at that time our last European match was against Fulham that knocked us out of UEL, in Serie A even Palermo outperformed us taking our place in the UEL because they've reached the final of Coppa Italia. Probably one of the first time I saw Ronaldo playing was in 2013 when we got Real in the group stage, but let's forget that UCL edition (and that snowstorm in Turkey ). 

 

At the end we're all fans, I think taht's normal to see someone differently when he plays for your team. Some months ago I couldn't see Ronaldo's celebration, now when he scores I randomly say "SUUUUUU" in front of my TV (do I need a doctor?). He's clearly our best player at the moment, even when he plays badly he do something good, like yesterday: he did nothing especial, but he froze the match against Milan, which isn't the easiest team to play with. 

Anyway Ronaldo is the best of all time, and my opinion isn't influenced at all by my fanboysm. END OF THE DISCUSSION 

[Jason]

The UEFA Nations League hasn't been anywhere near as bad as I expected. Good matchups, competitive games, good atmospheres. UEFA had a good idea for once.

[Tchuck]

And lol Germany. What happened? World Champions in 2014, kept the same base, completely atrocious 2018.