Red Dead Redemption 2: Discussion & Speculation (Part 4)

[Spadeflush]

7 minutes ago, Nyfyr said:

That being said, I think it’s important to atleast be aware of the sh*te working conditions and crunch time that takes place at pretty much any game developer.

Like sleeping overnight at the office. I know theres a couple games were developers had to do that.

[lndex]

14 hours ago, DEADWOODZ said:

Jesus...that's f*ckin beautiful!

 

"The vistas are hyperreal, inspired by luminous paintings like those by Albert Bierstadt of the Hudson River school. RDR2’s art director Rob Nelson says the team wanted the game world to respond to the story, so much so that “we were obsessed with it feeling natural or organic in every respect. Everywhere you look, you see something that is drawing you toward it.”

 

This is right here is my new favourite picture...this games landscapes, holy sh*t, man!

[nubcaker]

Just now, busted666 said:

thats a great shot and i havent seen anyone mention it, but do the horses look kind of weird in rdr2? like they are too slim or something? this isnt the first screen ive noted that on.

 

on the working conditions at rockstar i find it pretty odd people pretend they care. i mean they probably do care,but most of your clothes were probably made by someone (in some cases a kid) working in bangladesh where the women get sexualled mobbed, and they probably have similiar work days but earn like $2 a day. not to start with children in africa still starving and nobody really doing anything against it. two wrongs dont make a right but its kind of a hypocritical discussion.

 

at least the rockstar devs have a choice, they earn really good money, and probably can find a job at a friendlier gaming company pretty easily coming from rockstar.

 

also i see nobody boycotting rdr2 which would be the logical thing to do if people truly cared.

Hard to swallow pills right there.

[Ryancoke66]

9 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

 

My new favorite one is this one...for the same reason! The glints on the snow, Arthur's breath, snow crusted to Arthur's clothes..

 

For experimental purposes, I wanna stuff Arthur until he's max fat and then go Into the grizzlies for awhile until I'm starved and look like Seth lol I wonder how long that'll take.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Ryancoke66

[Hatin Since 87]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Yes they do.

 

Lets not act like this is some story drummed up to be a hit piece aimed at Rockstar. It's one part of a much larger and often criticised part of the industry. These crunch times are bad, you cannot in any shape or form twist it to being good. You can also not at all blame the employees for it, quitting a job in the industry because of crunch means you're gonna need a change of career and probably have to relocate. That's not a practical solution for everyone, many of them will have families and children.

 

We all love Rockstar. We don't have to always love their methods.

They know all of this going into the job. It isn’t forced. There is a choice. Choose to work in this industry, and these are the benefits/consequences. Pretty sure all full time jobs have pros and cons. It was a mutual agreement between employee and employer, and acting like working 100 hours a week to get a project done is somehow wrong really shows where the work ethic has gone in the world. They’ll be fine I assure you, they’re big boys with big checks and probably liked getting that much overtime. 

[Jason]

1 minute ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

They know all of this going into the job. It isn’t forced. There is a choice. Choose to work in this industry, and these are the benefits/consequences. Pretty sure all full time jobs have pros and cons. It was a mutual agreement between employee and employer, and acting like working 100 hours a week to get a project done is somehow wrong really shows where the work ethic has gone in the world. They’ll be fine I assure you, they’re big boys with big checks and probably liked getting that much overtime. 

I don't work at Rockstar nor have I ever applied to work there but I assure you mate, the job adverts do not have "100 hour work weeks" on them. They didn't sign up for it.

 

Also, as I said before, video game industry salaries are nothing special, and on average are below the salaries in other software related jobs.

 

They are not paid for overtime work, but they can get bonuses.

[Smudjed]

11 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

They know all of this going into the job. It isn’t forced. There is a choice. Choose to work in this industry, and these are the benefits/consequences. Pretty sure all full time jobs have pros and cons. It was a mutual agreement between employee and employer, and acting like working 100 hours a week to get a project done is somehow wrong really shows where the work ethic has gone in the world. They’ll be fine I assure you, they’re big boys with big checks and probably liked getting that much overtime. 

I kind of agree...

Being a manager of people who I do my best to enforce a healthy work/life balance into, the guys that I manage are also almost always willing to work extra if ever needed - and as long as there is gratitude for them doing it, then they don’t mind!

If R* are clever (which I’m almost convinced they are), then undoubtedly they have created the same environment - where their entire teams are so treasured and looked after that they totally DGAF having to pull 100hour weeks, because also, the Founders of the company that they work for are sitting right next to them getting stuck in as well! 

When you’re working with people who are so enthusiastic about their work - it rubs off - and the long hours and hard work aren’t a burden, because the end result is almost always something truly outstanding (I.e like GTAV and no doubt the same will be with RDR2)!

 

I also think, that we shouldn’t be so quick to judge an entire situation from a single remark mentioned in the interview... for all we know, the staff that pulled the 100 hour weeks could have been heavenly compensated, given overtime pay - or even have volunteered for it to get the extra cash...

It could so easily be either side of the coin - but either way, let’s leave HR at R* to deal with it lol 

x

Edited October 15, 2018 by Smudjed

[Stannard96]

46 minutes ago, Ryancoke66 said:

I really hope they give us a good selection for hunting and not limit us to just the bow to get the 3 star meat. With 50 weapons I'd imagine at least a couple would be good for hunting bigger game that still won't ruin the spoils.

 

Edit: almost 11am EST - fingers crossed for a website feature update 

Yeh, I don't wanna use the bow if possible, it kind of feels like an unnecessary, almost immersion breaking thing to me; why the hell would Arthur, a big-ass burly cowboy, be using such a delicate, foreign weapon? It just feels too much like its for the player to play with, rather than a tool Arthur would actually use.

[BlackJackthe3rd]

Just now, Stannard96 said:

Yeh, I don't wanna use the bow if possible, it kind of feels like an unnecessary, almost immersion breaking thing to me; why the hell would Arthur, a big-ass burly cowboy, be using such a delicate, foreign weapon? It just feels too much like its for the player to play with, rather than a tool Arthur would actually use.

Then pay the price and sell your hide for less

[Hurrikane]

This just in. My wife has her own business. Works 5=6 days a week, works 12 hours a day or more 12 months a year.. She loves what she does.... Never takes vacation or a sick day... She doesnt complain, she loves what she does or wouldnt do it. Worked her way up... 

 

i take off alot, call in sick, i love what i do... 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Hurrikane

[Hatin Since 87]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

I don't work at Rockstar nor have I ever applied to work there but I assure you mate, the job adverts do not have "100 hour work weeks" on them. They didn't sign up for it.

 

Also, as I said before, video game industry salaries are nothing special, and on average are below the salaries in other software related jobs.

 

They are not paid for overtime work, but they can get bonuses.

So you’re telling me they don’t know they’ll have to work 100 hour weeks at times? 

 

As far as the salaries being nothing special, it’s what they agreed to! They were given an amount, they accepted the amount, and began their career with them. If they wanted a better salary they could have declined the offer and went elsewhere. Again, choices. They chose to work in an industry they know will have crunch times and long hours. They chose to accept the salary they were offered. They choose to continue working there. 

[Spadeflush]

5 minutes ago, busted666 said:

on the working conditions at rockstar i find it pretty odd people pretend they care. i mean they probably do care,but most of your clothes were probably made by someone (in some cases a kid) working in bangladesh where the women get sexualled mobbed, and they probably have similiar work days but earn like $2 a day. not to start with children in africa still starving and nobody really doing anything against it. two wrongs dont make a right but its kind of a hypocritical discussion.

You can still complain about 1st world problems even if you are aware of the problems in the 3rd world. What goes on in the 3rd world isn't our burden. Although I personally don't care about the working conditions at Rockstar, the developers knew what they were getting into when they submitted their resumes. 

[Knightfury]

I really can't help but think that this "crunches" are pre planned bcoz they had unlimited resources , unlimited funding , unlimited time 8 years to develop i do think that R* management is pretty bad but crunch aren't only limited to rockstar but to the gaming industry as a whole R* and the industry need to change this mentality , they need change things in management drastically 

[Ryancoke66]

3 minutes ago, Stannard96 said:

Yeh, I don't wanna use the bow if possible, it kind of feels like an unnecessary, almost immersion breaking thing to me; why the hell would Arthur, a big-ass burly cowboy, be using such a delicate, foreign weapon? It just feels too much like its for the player to play with, rather than a tool Arthur would actually use.

Logically, if you hit an animal in the head with lead bullets it shouldn't ruin the actual meat or pelt. So maybe it's possible to hunt with anything, so long as you only aim for the head?

[Hatin Since 87]

3 minutes ago, Hurrikane said:

This just in. My wife has her own business. Works 5=6 days a week, works 12 hours a day or more... She loves what she does.... Never takes vacation or a sick day... She doesnt complain, she loves what she does or wouldnt do it. Worked her way up... 

 

i take off alot, call in sick, i love what i do... 

Should we boycott her product for making herself work so hard and so much? I’m sure cutting her companies income will surely teach her a lesson for working above and beyond. 

 

Sarcasm, if it isn’t obvious. 

[Stannard96]

3 minutes ago, Ryancoke66 said:

Logically, if you hit an animal in the head with lead bullets it shouldn't ruin the actual meat or pelt. So maybe it's possible to hunt with anything, so long as you only aim for the head?

Yeah that would make sense

[Jabalous]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

I don't work at Rockstar nor have I ever applied to work there but I assure you mate, the job adverts do not have "100 hour work weeks" on them. They didn't sign up for it.

 

Also, as I said before, video game industry salaries are nothing special, and on average are below the salaries in other software related jobs.

 

They are not paid for overtime work, but they can get bonuses.

But I'm sure that most applicants know about the typical Rockstar's crunch time before actually joining. There are employees that would stick around and enjoy the challenges and time there, and progress in positions over time, and others who just want to work a couple of years to have a R* project on their resume. 

[Jason]

4 minutes ago, Knightfury29 said:

I really can't help but think that this "crunches" are pre planned bcoz they had unlimited resources , unlimited funding , unlimited time 8 years to develop i do think that R* management is pretty bad but crunch aren't only limited to rockstar but to the gaming industry as a whole R* and the industry need to change this mentality , they need change things in management drastically 

Studios are trying to solve it, SEGA recently announced they've reduced the amount of employers working 60+ hours a week by 80-90% for example. It's difficult though, no one is gonna argue that it isn't. These companies and the people at them wanna make the best game possible and sooner or later that means you end up staying late and it snowballs from there.

[Borland12]

I hope soundtrack from the first trailer will be somewhere in the game 

[busted666]

12 minutes ago, Knightfury29 said:

I really can't help but think that this "crunches" are pre planned bcoz they had unlimited resources , unlimited funding , unlimited time 8 years to develop i do think that R* management is pretty bad but crunch aren't only limited to rockstar but to the gaming industry as a whole R* and the industry need to change this mentality , they need change things in management drastically 

Its probably bad management. Rockstar suddenly found out they need to bring out a new game and so instead of 3 guys working on rdr 2 for 7 years and getting nowhere they made everyone work on it. But see the conquests of america? Those brave men who fought for freedom and a new home didnt have 6 hour workdays either. To achieve great things you need to give great sacrifice /s

 

But that actually is a thing most ppl will never understand sadly. By having unlimited ressources, unlimited time, it does not mean you bring great results. Most people get overly lazy, waste their time, and get actually nothing done. While working really hard, so hard you barely sleep, being superstressed and sweating blood and tears that usually IS when great things are achieved. Great things dont come from more rest but from pushing yourself more. However rest IS important but maybe working this hard for a year on a game actually isnt such a bad thing and Sega who lets their people have tons of free time for example, also Ubisoft, might release (even) better products if they pushed their employees a little more like Rockstar and werent so friendly and understanding. Which one makes more money (also from us) is pretty clear i guess?

Edited October 15, 2018 by busted666

[Knightfury]

2 minutes ago, Borland12 said:

I hope soundtrack from the first trailer will be somewhere in the game 

Yeah and also hoping that the iconic Rdr theme will return

[Typhus]

11 minutes ago, Stannard96 said:

Yeh, I don't wanna use the bow if possible, it kind of feels like an unnecessary, almost immersion breaking thing to me; why the hell would Arthur, a big-ass burly cowboy, be using such a delicate, foreign weapon? It just feels too much like its for the player to play with, rather than a tool Arthur would actually use.

Actually I disagree with this assessment. Morgan is clearly a very tough, weathered man, but his entire demeanour also strikes me as being more attuned to nature than say John Marston*. Arthur really reminds me of the American frontiersmen, like Davy Crockett, who were great hunters and were far more in tune with the wilderness than the dawning age of huge cities. I can easily believe him using a bow and arrow, because he looks completely in his element when he's in the woods or in the mountains - far more than when we see him in some fancy big city.

 

*Remember when John tells Jack "we only kill what we need"? I have a strong feeling he learned that entire philosophy from Arthur.

[Ryancoke66]

Since Explosive ammo was confirmed, Im curious what kinda destruction it'll cause to animals, people, or even structures. Seems a bit OP imo

[Borland12]

About these 100 hours. Houser said they did so during 2018. I think it was before they showed game to journalists back in may in order to have it running as best as possible(it was on  fat Ps4) and be as polished as possible. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Borland12

[Knightfury]

Yeah i do think this might have been  misinterpreted , i mean he surely didn't mean that if so that's worrying

Edited October 15, 2018 by Knightfury29

[Spadeflush]

But is it 100 hours divided by 5 days a week?

 

10 hours a day 5 days a week?

 

Wait nevermind I screwed up 2nd grade math

Edited October 15, 2018 by Spadeflush

[busted666]

11 minutes ago, Borland12 said:

About these 100 hours. Houser said they did so during 2018. I think it was before they showed game to journalists back in may in order to have it running as best as possible(it was on  fat Ps4) and be as polished as possible. 

There was a leak/rumour I dont remember the source so cant really say its true but it said the Rockstar bosses werent happy with what their devs showed them of an early RDR2. so thats probably when they made everyone work much harder, also I assume they didnt want to delay it by another year because they need to bring gta6 at some point. Which probably means not much rest for the rockstar devs in the near future.

9 minutes ago, Spadeflush said:

But is it 100 hours divided by 5 days a week?

 

10 hours a day 5 days a week?

 

Wait nevermind I screwed up 2nd grade math

when i still worked for others a long time ago, it wasnt uncommon they asked us to work on weekends, including even sundays when there was huge contracts with a timeline. they always asked tho and offered nice bonuses, nobody was forced or ever fired if they refused. always felt weird to be the only one office in the building that was working, i kinda liked it.

 

edit: the way rockstar seems structured is they have smaller teams, so if one of the smaller team bosses wants his team to excell or needs to fulfill some deadlines to his boss, he might actually kind of force his team to actually turn up on weekends and be super persuasive. i can see how thats a bad situation for anyone in that team having an "evil miniboss" and some of the employer reviews of rockstar hint at that too. but yeah i dont like it, but it might be necessary to be a bit ruthless like this to meet deadlines and bring better results. most humans are kind of hardwired to being lazy so some pressure always helps

 

on the other hand if it really was THAT bad at rockstar, i think we should be hearing from many many more former rockstar employees?

Edited October 15, 2018 by busted666

[Hatin Since 87]

I feel bad for Rockstar. Delay a game, heads explode. Put developers on 100 hours a week to ensure a great game and a delivery schedule, heads explode. 

[damienrayemusic]

^ it's sad.. they just can't win. And to add to my post and others on the last page, honestly people love to hate and love to hate them especially. man. Of course the media as usual fails to tell the whole story this 100 hour crunch was needed for THIS year 2018 yes like most devs imagine that? NOT the entire 8 year cycle of this games development!!! Jesus humans never fail to irritate and make me cringe so f*cking hard ugh.. it doesn't seem like many here are falling into the negative trap but I beg of you guys after all this wait and fun and hard times we been through together and getting to know each other, do NOT let this ruin your experience.. please.

Edited October 15, 2018 by damienrayemusic
important message to everyone I care about

[Knightfury]

With all being said Red dead 2 is looking pretty much Game of the Generation