I'm fully expecting Arthur to be more interesting than John.

[Gunboat138]

John Marston, my favorite video game character of all time.  A no nonsense, simple kind of man, with a slight sense of humor and a driving loyalty for his family.  I honestly don't think the story of Red Dead Redemption gets enough credit.  In my opinion, it deserves to be hailed as one of the great American stories, I think it gets negative points for being a video game, but that's a different topic for a different time.  Anyway, it slowly unravels things about the protagonist, coming off the boat in Blackwater, you know nothing, but through smart dialogue and meaningful cuts scenes, it paints a wonderful portrait of not only the man himself, but what he went through to get to where he is, whether you look at him as a guy who made it out of the life or you look at him as a man living with the consequences of his actions in his former life.  They make a guy who is a known murderer and thief(which I wholeheartedly think will be greatly expanded upon in RDR2 i.e., I think John is gonna be a huge piece of sh*t) into a greatly sympathetic character, and I loved every minute I got to spend playing as him, watching his story unfold, countless times.

 

That being said, I believe Arthur Morgan will make a lot of people forget about John.  I see tons of posts about how Arthur is the bland jerk, with a simple name, and generally negative things being said about the character, but I think that's because they want you to be able to put that much more of yourself into him.  He's always clean shaven and wearing the same clothes because they want you to make your Arthur a piece of you.  You want to grow a big Grizzly Adams beard and wear a bear pelt?  Your Arthur can do that.  You want to wear a top hat, white gloves and have a twirly mustache?  Your Arthur can do that too.  I fully expect that gunning down random civilians won't feel as out of place as it did when you were playing as John, John is John and he really wouldn't do that.  But Arthur is you and you might do that.  Maybe on the second playthrough.  But I fully trust Rockstar to make Arthur compelling enough on his own and the added flavor of people being able to put their own spin on him will make us connect to Arthur in more ways than we could ever connect with John.  Arthur Morgan's name isn't Christian Killmaster because he's supposed to be an everyman.  If you pay attention to the names of your gang members, Karen Jones, Charles Smith, Micah Bell, they all have common names, so do most of us.  This is a game about people, there is shooting and robbing and gang sh*t in it, but they've heavily emphasized that this world is alive and interaction will be the focus and Arthur is our portal to the world they've created.  His story is our story and I'm looking forward to meeting the new people populated within that world. 

 

I hope to see some of John and how he used to be, I even hope we get a cameo or two from some people that were in the old game, but I sincerely hope that the vast majority of the interactions we have are with people I've never "met" before.  They created those beloved characters that we fawn over(I hope Marshal Johnson is in Armadillo!!/OMG I think I saw Landon Ricketts!!!) they will do it again, I promise.  

Edited October 2, 2018 by Gunboat138

[HockeyMike24]

I would love to see a younger Landon Ricketts

[SinisterRaccoon]

I really want that to be the case. And I also want this game to provide a different perspective on the guy for better or worse.

[Typhus]

The problem with John was that to make him appeal to the audience a lot of his behaviour and ideals were very modern. His cynicism about the government and politicians and the general prejudices of America at the time wouldn't be out of place in 2018. Now, that's not to say that everyone at that time period was an ignorant bigot, far from it, but they were also incredibly different from us today, with many views which would seem utterly alien to us.

Now, it's too early to tell if Arthur will reflect this, but from the trailers alone he seems like a more brutalised man, who is a true product of the stark environment he was born into.

[SinisterRaccoon]

26 minutes ago, Typhus said:

The problem with John was that to make him appeal to the audience a lot of his behaviour and ideals were very modern. His cynicism about the government and politicians and the general prejudices of America at the time wouldn't be out of place in 2018. Now, that's not to say that everyone at that time period was an ignorant bigot, far from it, but they were also incredibly different from us today, with many views which would seem utterly alien to us.

Now, it's too early to tell if Arthur will reflect this, but from the trailers alone he seems like a more brutalised man, who is a true product of the stark environment he was born into.

I can't imagine much of Dutch's gang being bigots. Lenny Summers and Tilly Jackson are African American and Javier Escuela is Hispanic. 

[Gunboat138]

31 minutes ago, Typhus said:

The problem with John was that to make him appeal to the audience a lot of his behaviour and ideals were very modern. His cynicism about the government and politicians and the general prejudices of America at the time wouldn't be out of place in 2018. Now, that's not to say that everyone at that time period was an ignorant bigot, far from it, but they were also incredibly different from us today, with many views which would seem utterly alien to us.

Now, it's too early to tell if Arthur will reflect this, but from the trailers alone he seems like a more brutalised man, who is a true product of the stark environment he was born into.

He kind of had to be that way. So does Arthur.  So does any character they want to paint a positive light on.  People won't stand for pejudice anymore, in any form, even though the majority of people in that time would've been what we today would consider raging bigots.  Even a gang that would accept a black man and woman would be throwing around n bombs pretty liberally. Even the guys in RDR1 who they are painting as racists are pretty mild.  And the worse one they made into a joke(Herbert moon). If Teddy Roosevelt was around today, as he was at the turn of the 20th century, we'd be calling him a worse-than-trump level nazi or whatever people are being accused of these days, but in his time he was considered a bleeding heart liberal.  It's just what they have to do to not get attacked or I guess to be relateable.  

 

It's something they have to do and it's fine, I don't particularly want to play as a racist, but if we're talking about "immersion", the biggest break if immersion isnt gonna be invisible walls or your hat reappearing on your horse, but the fact that people won't be constantly shouting racial slurs at Lenny and Charles. 

[Gray-Hand]

John Marston was a great character, but RDR1 wasn’t a particularly great story.  It was pretty good, but it definitely wasn’t one of the great American stories.

 

 It had several structural flaws such as the villains, particularly Dutch, not really being present throughout the story, and barely interacting with Marston.

It didn’t do a great job of conveying any sense of desperation on Marston’s part to free his wife and son.

It also could have done more with its theme of the death of the old west.

 

I’m looking very forward to the story of RDR2 though.  The implosion of a closely knit criminal gang has great dramatic potential, and it looks like they have crafted gameplay mechanics to enhance the players feel for the personal ties between all the characters, which will make it hit harder when it all unravels.

[PapasHota]

Arthur Morgan  has a sh*tty voice actor and looks like a more generic Lincoln Clay, the only interesting thing i see in him is that hes gonna be dead in the end.

[eastriver]

I'm mostly happy that we're playing a new character even though this is a prequel.

Arthur Morgan does look like a great protagonist, but that wouldn't stop making John Marston a great protagonist in RDR1.

[Potter145]

9 hours ago, Typhus said:

The problem with John was that to make him appeal to the audience a lot of his behaviour and ideals were very modern. His cynicism about the government and politicians and the general prejudices of America at the time wouldn't be out of place in 2018. Now, that's not to say that everyone at that time period was an ignorant bigot, far from it, but they were also incredibly different from us today, with many views which would seem utterly alien to us.

Now, it's too early to tell if Arthur will reflect this, but from the trailers alone he seems like a more brutalised man, who is a true product of the stark environment he was born into.

I know where you are coming from but you can't compare a streetkid becoming an outlaw with the general population. I think Marstons views are very much grounded on his past experiences.

 

The increasing regulation by the state government and the approaching oligarchy (hinted throughout the story of RDR1 through dialogue or newspapers) brought more crime and taxes. So I don't know what do you mean exactly. It was not uncommon that the people on the frontier distrusted the government, because they saw how bureaucracy made things more complicated and weren't really more efficient than the old local systems in place. But they were more effective in controlling the population. In addition to the rising crime and the decrease of real purchasing power, old towns modernized, bringing in new businesses while deatroying old ones.

 

Now referring to racism, we don't really know how the common man thought, but we know of the more extreme cases, which often is projected on the general population. I mean just look at todays world, you can't just generalise the people of America, as there are several groups. I believe most people weren't considered part of the left (as we view them today), but many liberals back in the day would now be called right-wing.

[Fidzy]

17 hours ago, HockeyMike24 said:

I would love to see a younger Landon Ricketts

Great point, I actually forgot about him and he was an old west legend. Knowing the tricks Rockstar has pulled over the years though, I wouldn't be surprised if they made John a horrible character through RDR2 and generally unlikeable.

[SinisterRaccoon]

7 hours ago, PapasHota said:

Arthur Morgan  has a sh*tty voice actor and looks like a more generic Lincoln Clay, the only interesting thing i see in him is that hes gonna be dead in the end.

Edgy lul

[1898]

11 hours ago, Typhus said:

The problem with John was that to make him appeal to the audience a lot of his behaviour and ideals were very modern. His cynicism about the government and politicians and the general prejudices of America at the time wouldn't be out of place in 2018. Now, that's not to say that everyone at that time period was an ignorant bigot, far from it, but they were also incredibly different from us today, with many views which would seem utterly alien to us.

Now, it's too early to tell if Arthur will reflect this, but from the trailers alone he seems like a more brutalised man, who is a true product of the stark environment he was born into.

Meaning John was an "ignorant bigot"? I can't recall one thing that would point in that direction.

 

10 hours ago, UndeadPotat0 said:

I can't imagine much of Dutch's gang being bigots. Lenny Summers and Tilly Jackson are African American and Javier Escuela is Hispanic. 

and Charles Smith.

[Jason]

I'm looking forward to Arthur a lot cause he's just... well, a guy to be honest. So many games now are making more and more "exotic" protagonists, which is fine and all but it's gonna be nice going back to playing a protagonist who's just a guy trying to get by. He aint the saviour of the universe, the world doesn't revolve around him, he's not loved by everyone, he's just a normal looking dude. I genuinely find that so refreshing these days lol.

[PhotomodePNG]

^ this...well said and could not agree more

[SinisterRaccoon]

4 hours ago, 1898 said:

Meaning John was an "ignorant bigot"? I can't recall one thing that would point in that direction.

 

and Charles Smith.

Who is native American, correct.

[Mach1bud]

I think he will be equally as interesting, but I think I will like him slightly more than John. Of course, we don't know much about how either of them acts yet, since it seems John is a bit different now and we've heard little of Arthur's dialogue.

[Tonesta]

RDR, whilst touching on the wider issues of the modern world encroaching on the wild west, was essentially the story of one man's journey and ultimately doomed attempts to escape his past. Ultimately, although there were many fascinating supporting characters, John Marston dominated the storyline. So it's a good thing he was a nuanced and well-written character - otherwise the game wouldn't have worked!

 

With RDR2, we'll have to wait and see. But at the moment, I'm getting the sense that it is going to be more of an ensemble piece, showing the lives of this diverse and colourful group of characters; and how the relentless march of progress drives them and their way of life first to the fringes of society and then ultimately drives them apart.

 

In that context, it's probably less important for Arthur's character to be 'interesting' in the way that John Marston had to be. In fact it may fit the story better if he's a relatively simple man - a blank canvas on to which players can project their own gameplay style - but surrounded by deeper and more complex characters that get a lot of screentime (we already know that Dutch is going to be a fascinating character - a raging conflict of utopian idealism and moral flexibility - and I have high hopes for the likes of Sadie, Charles and others).

 

I'm not saying he needs to be a Claude - but I don't think he'll need to carry the story the way John did. Because the centre of the story is going to be about a lot more than him.

[Journey_95]

I agree. John Marston was great  but they seem to be going for a more immersive way with Arthur and it will be great to see him interact with the rest of the gang. RDR's story was good but focused too much on detours 

[HockeyMike24]

Although I think GTA V was a mistake to have multiple stories, I think R*'s story telling and character depth has gotten better with each title. I'm fully expecting this story to hold up just as well as RDR1 if not better.

[Haha365]

I think that fact that we will be able to mold him,  even if minimal,  will add more depth.  His personality seems more dynamic already, as well. 

[CrimsonFolo]

John Marston was interesting and cool imo tbh but Arthur Morgan probably has more potential as he has no ties to family (As in wife/children) so i feel he does have potential as a very good protagonist.

 

Hell i wouldn't mind if Rockstar instead spread the "attention" to the main characters of Dutch's gang and make them all likable and unique in their own way.

[SinisterRaccoon]

41 minutes ago, The FoolYT said:

John Marston was interesting and cool imo tbh but Arthur Morgan probably has more potential as he has no ties to family (As in wife/children) so i feel he does have potential as a very good protagonist.

 

Hell i wouldn't mind if Rockstar instead spread the "attention" to the main characters of Dutch's gang and make them all likable and unique in their own way.

I personally want all the gang members to be somewhat flushed out and not just background NPCs.

[MARKUS.]

The more I rewatch some RDR scenes, the more I realize that John is a very dumb person, and naive. You just have to see how Dutch is warning him on his last scene about what would happen next and the answer he gives to him on his unknowledge 

 

Dutch: When I'm gone, they'll just find another monster. They have to because they have to justify their wages

John: That's their business

Dutch: Our time has past, John

 

WARNING: HANDS ON PREVIEW DETAILS DOWN HERE. NOT SO IMPORTANT THOUGH BUT STILL DON'T CLICK IT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW EVEN A MINOR DETAIL

 

Spoiler

I just can't but be agreed with Arthur on his statement saying that John is "more dumb than a rock"

 

[Cutter De Blanc]

Yeah it always annoyed me how Dutch is trying to give this brilliant speech before he finally dies, and John's just like "YA WHATEVER BRO"

Pearls before swine

Edited October 6, 2018 by Cutter De Blanc

[Jerking For Soup]

False.

[HockeyMike24]

I'm really surprised people dislike Morgan. For one we know very little about the character and from what we do know, he seems like a total badass that doesn't take sh*t from anyone. Which is very refreshing from playing as the errand boy John was for the feds. As Dutch puts it.

[TexasOdysseus]

On 10/6/2018 at 2:28 PM, UndeadPotat0 said:

I personally want all the gang members to be somewhat flushed out and not just background NPCs.

It sure sounds as if, based on the thorough camp dynamic and the interdependence of the gang members, that everyone's character arc will be explored. 

 

As far as Morgan, I like what I see so far. I wonder how much moral ambiguity will exist in his soul...after all, like Marston, we could make him be virtuous or evil. I wonder if the storyline will lead him to having some sort of crisis of conscience. I liked the RDR1 story, but to @Gray-Hand's point, there could have been more urgency or desperation from Marston given his plight. Then again, he's the stoic throwback man from the Wild West--a guy like that isn't going to whine and moan about being treated unfairly; he's going to do what he did--go about his business to try to make things right. 

 

I've been replaying RDR1 though, and so many of the Mexican missions drag on almost too long. Marston gets played, plays both sides, all means to an end. I hope R* can have more wrinkles in RDR2.

[Bob Loblaw]

Honestly, both sides are "overreacting". We know very little about him, so we can't neither call him a boring POS or call him the best R* protagonist ever(LOL). I'll just wait to actually play as Arthur to take my conclusion.

[Gunboat138]

On 10/6/2018 at 5:56 PM, Cutter De Blanc said:

Yeah it always annoyed me how Dutch is trying to give this brilliant speech before he finally dies, and John's just like "YA WHATEVER BRO"

Pearls before swine

He does this type of thing a lot.  I wouldn't put him in the blithering idiot category, but he definitely misses the snake that's about to jump out and bite him a lot.  A lot of people are like this nowadays.  "Hey dude, you're gonna get f*cked up if you keep doing this thing you're doing". "Okay whatever, Mr. Crazy lolz"