The moral implications of Shark Cards

[White Shark]

We all know by now that one of the reasons things like casinos have not become a thing in GTA is because of the situation with Shark Cards and the potential to create issues with regards to gambling, should someone spend real world money inside these casinos and then lose. R* really made a rod for their own backs with that one. And even though kids should not be playing this game, there is the legal implications of underage gambling (blame the parents for that one).

 

But here's a thought. Say if you buy a Shark Card and get that digital currency from it. Then, say if you decide to blow (lol) it all on the services of those nice ladies who walk the streets or even in the strip club, is this almost a digital form of prostitution using real world currency? Or at the very least a computer generated paid-for-porn service? Further compounded by little Johnny Johnson using his mother's credit card details to pay for such services?

 

All it would take is for some outraged mother who doesn't realise who should be playing an adult rated game to scream loud enough that her precious little angel has charged her credit card to view digital porn and prostitution, then some do-good politician ar-tard to run with the story to yell how evil and corrupting games are, and it could lead to either the abolishment of Shark Cards or more likely, R* massively changing the game to appease the bad parenting.

 

Food for thought. All hypothetical of course.

[0cta]

The presentation is not really that explicit and iirc, there's no real sex involved (although i vaguely remember IV had this?). Compared to hot coffee, i don't think this would make a good controversy.

 

But then again, in the USA nothing is impossible. I wouldn't be suprised if a lawyer or judge over the ocean would act on "Hey, my kid is playing a game where the ESRB-sticker says 'M-Rated, contains violence and sexuality' and there's actual violence and sexuality in it! That's immoral, do something!".

 

In other coountries where common sense is applied, the judge would be like "*shrugs*....well...yeah....it does say that on the box....sooooo?"

[Guest Member2756931]

Sorry but you began the whole thing incorrectly and inaccurately. Shark cards are not an issue as far as gambling laws are concerned. These are not the reason for no casino. Unless you can buy real world items with GTA$, shark cards (once redeemed) are not valuable and cannot be subject to any gambling laws.

 

This issue has been discussed to death in numerous topics complete with accurate information, case studies, applicable laws etc. yet somehow people still think GTA$ are valuable and subject to regular laws. If that were the case, anyone who has glitched or hacked money should be arrested for counterfeiting and fraud.

 

Learn the difference between items of value and items of whimsy. It's a fundamental part of any such discussion.

 

 

For the record, again, which is covered in numerous other topics...

 

1. You can already gamble in GTA Online. Deathmatches, races etc. all have an option to wager GTA$.

2. GTA$ are worthless. They are not classed as items of any value. They are not legal currency.

3. Rockstar have not included a working casino in GTA Online for reasons known only to them. The reasons however are not of a legal nature.

 

Honestly, it takes about 30 seconds to find what you need to check before posting such utter crap and so many people fail to even bother to check if what they are claiming is correct or not. Look it up before you post crap!

 

10 seconds on Google and https://www.lawofthelevel.com/2015/11/articles/virtual-currency/court-rules-virtual-currency-casino-not-illegal-gambling-despite-secondary-market/ pops up. It's not hard.

 

And sure, laws are being looked in to currently with regards to in game gambling, loot boxes etc. however this has only just begun, it does not cover the last 5 years of no casino and tens of topics full of bullsh*t.

 

/rant

[Lonely-Martin]

22 minutes ago, YouKnowWhoIAm said:

If that were the case, anyone who has glitched or hacked money should be arrested for counterfeiting and fraud.

#Blastermanporn

[White Shark]

29 minutes ago, YouKnowWhoIAm said:

Sorry but you began the whole thing incorrectly and inaccurately. Shark cards are not an issue as far as gambling laws are concerned. These are not the reason for no casino. Unless you can buy real world items with GTA$, shark cards (once redeemed) are not valuable and cannot be subject to any gambling laws.

 

This issue has been discussed to death in numerous topics complete with accurate information, case studies, applicable laws etc. yet somehow people still think GTA$ are valuable and subject to regular laws. If that were the case, anyone who has glitched or hacked money should be arrested for counterfeiting and fraud.

 

Learn the difference between items of value and items of whimsy. It's a fundamental part of any such discussion.

 

 

For the record, again, which is covered in numerous other topics...

 

1. You can already gamble in GTA Online. Deathmatches, races etc. all have an option to wager GTA$.

2. GTA$ are worthless. They are not classed as items of any value. They are not legal currency.

3. Rockstar have not included a working casino in GTA Online for reasons known only to them. The reasons however are not of a legal nature.

 

Honestly, it takes about 30 seconds to find what you need to check before posting such utter crap and so many people fail to even bother to check if what they are claiming is correct or not. Look it up before you post crap!

 

10 seconds on Google and https://www.lawofthelevel.com/2015/11/articles/virtual-currency/court-rules-virtual-currency-casino-not-illegal-gambling-despite-secondary-market/ pops up. It's not hard.

 

And sure, laws are being looked in to currently with regards to in game gambling, loot boxes etc. however this has only just begun, it does not cover the last 5 years of no casino and tens of topics full of bullsh*t.

 

/rant

Lol, can always rely on you to post an irritated and snarky response. Someone give him back his teddy, please?

[Smooth Longsack]

15 minutes ago, KWF1981 said:

#Blastermanporn

[Guest Member2756931]

22 minutes ago, White Shark said:

Lol, can always rely on you to post an irritated and snarky response. Someone give him back his teddy, please?

You can when you post total bullsh*t especially when that total bullsh*t has been explained, in detail, as many times as it has been here.

 

How hard is it to research something you're posting about? Surely that's the first thing you do, you make sure what your posting is accurate?

 

Until GTA$ become items of value the rest doesn't apply.

[KingpinRCR]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWhoIAm said:

Sorry but you began the whole thing incorrectly and inaccurately. Shark cards are not an issue as far as gambling laws are concerned. These are not the reason for no casino. Unless you can buy real world items with GTA$, shark cards (once redeemed) are not valuable and cannot be subject to any gambling laws.

 

This issue has been discussed to death in numerous topics complete with accurate information, case studies, applicable laws etc. yet somehow people still think GTA$ are valuable and subject to regular laws. If that were the case, anyone who has glitched or hacked money should be arrested for counterfeiting and fraud.

 

Learn the difference between items of value and items of whimsy. It's a fundamental part of any such discussion.

 

 

For the record, again, which is covered in numerous other topics...

 

1. You can already gamble in GTA Online. Deathmatches, races etc. all have an option to wager GTA$.

2. GTA$ are worthless. They are not classed as items of any value. They are not legal currency.

3. Rockstar have not included a working casino in GTA Online for reasons known only to them. The reasons however are not of a legal nature.

 

Honestly, it takes about 30 seconds to find what you need to check before posting such utter crap and so many people fail to even bother to check if what they are claiming is correct or not. Look it up before you post crap!

 

10 seconds on Google and https://www.lawofthelevel.com/2015/11/articles/virtual-currency/court-rules-virtual-currency-casino-not-illegal-gambling-despite-secondary-market/ pops up. It's not hard.

 

And sure, laws are being looked in to currently with regards to in game gambling, loot boxes etc. however this has only just begun, it does not cover the last 5 years of no casino and tens of topics full of bullsh*t.

 

/rant

I beg to differ.  In Belgium loot boxes are considered gambling and thus illegal in games.  What’s the difference with gta$?  Both are digital items with no real value.  And it’s not just Belgium,  The Netherlands, Germany and Portugal also want to ban lootboxes and it is being discussed in the european parlement to ban them all across Europe.

Being able to gamble for ingame currency or items you can use in-game seem like the same thing to me...

 

edit:  and yes, it does cover the last 5 years.  First of all,  governements didn’t start with this overnight this year but where being busy with this for much longer.  Second, R* knew this could be problematic.  So instead of giving it to some they gave it to no-one, wich is simpeler than giving it to some not to others.

Edited September 26, 2018 by KingpinRCR

[Lonely-Martin]

^ To be fair, that just irks me. Not the dude's personals. It's just so obvious how little R* help players out there that got caught up. That $4.8bn there is similar to my old account after pricks did their thing, not even a 2nd thought from R* support, closed.

 

So glad current consoles have been safe from that so far. 

[Nutduster]

8 minutes ago, KingpinRCR said:

I beg to differ.  In Belgium loot boxes are considered gambling and thus illegal in games.  What’s the difference with gta$?  Both are digital items with no real value.  And it’s not just Belgium,  The Netherlands, Germany and Portugal also want to ban lootboxes and it is being discussed in the european parlement to ban them all across Europe.

Being able to gamble for ingame currency or items you can use in-game seem like the same thing to me...

 

He addressed this already, why did you blow right by it?  Anti-lootbox legislation is all fairly new and is certainly not the reason that Rockstar didn't add non-lootbox pseudo-gambling in the form of a casino 3-4 years ago when everyone was really clamoring for it. 

 

In any event, all they would have to do is set strict limits on how much you could gamble (total winnings or losses) per game day, or even real day, and no one would say boo about the casino.  The only thing they would have to prevent is some kid blowing $1000 worth of shark cards in a month, and they'd be covered.  This would happily coincide with their need to ensure none of us got filthy rich off the casino.  So I agree with YouKnowWhoIAm on this, fear of anti-gambling crusaders are probably not the reason.  Anyone saying they do know the specific reason(s) is talking out of his or her ass.

 

34 minutes ago, Smooth Longsack said:

Spoiler

 

 

In a tribute to our dear old friend, I made a point of pushing my K/D up to 4.00 a couple weeks ago before I went into semi-retirement.  It was already in the high 3.9 range, I just had to go on a ridiculous murder spree for a few days.  I know he isn't aware of it, but I like to think that subconsciously he FELT it happening, and wet himself.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Nutduster

[AcidRain7744]

The game is rated M for mature. I think that covers Rockstar's bases as far as angry sue happy mothers goes.

 

As far as gambling goes, as long as GTA$ can't be converted into IRL$ there is no issue, the money only flows into the game not out. Personally I would find the gambling aspect of a casino boring. What would we do, throw dices down the craps table over and over with cool down times? 45:02 until you can play craps... 5:02 until you can play poker... I can see it being like the nightclub, with the nightclub being abandoned right away and some kind of passive income and garages attached to it. Of course, they wouldn't give us a nice flashy storefront, they'd give us a ugly building with poor access and an entrance between 2 dumpsters. I hope the next GTA has better curb appear. Casinos could be great if they looked like the ones in Vegas.

Edited September 26, 2018 by AcidXRain73

[White Shark]

36 minutes ago, YouKnowWhoIAm said:

You can when you post total bullsh*t especially when that total bullsh*t has been explained, in detail, as many times as it has been here.

 

How hard is it to research something you're posting about? Surely that's the first thing you do, you make sure what your posting is accurate?

 

Until GTA$ become items of value the rest doesn't apply.

Apologies if I've upset you and your "rules" when it comes to posting here. I'd ask you to close it, but you're not a mod, so... 

[CarimboHanky]

2 hours ago, White Shark said:

should someone spend real world money inside these casinos and then lose. R* really made a rod for their own backs with that one

 

this way of thinking have never made sense to me...

 

losing money in the casino would be no different than using a cashcard to buy stock for your business and having someone destroy your cargo during the sale mission

 

the only way i think R* could get in issues with a casino is if the casino chips can only be bought with real money.

[White Shark]

My main point was more on the hooker / digital porn side, rather than the casino. Either way, mods feel free to close this. I'm not interested in it turning into an argument-fest.

[Guest Member2756931]

36 minutes ago, White Shark said:

Apologies if I've upset you and your "rules" when it comes to posting here. I'd ask you to close it, but you're not a mod, so... 

Rules? It's common sense. Check your facts if you're posting something in such a way it is a statement. Your comments regarding the casino not opening are incorrect.

 

As for digital porn, welcome to the internet. Why would GTA Online be any different than the rest of the internet? Little Johnny could just as easily take that credit card, sign up to "Scandinavian Midgets with Strapons" and the press wouldn't give a crap. 

 

You use the words "real world currency" a lot when we are talking GTA$ which are not real world currency, they aren't even items of value.

Instructing a character in interactive media to use the services of a hooker is not anywhere near prostitution, at best it is a mediocre form of adult entertainment (and not even a good one).

 

The moral implications of shark cards are very different to these scenarios you have posted. The moral implications are little Johnny could take his parent's credit card and buy shark cards with very little security checks, the game pushes for shark card sales. This is where Rockstar/Take Two's morals should be in question, not what the GTA$ are used for.

 

Using shark cards to buy weapons, is this a digital form of illegal arms trade? Or to set up a digital business to produce digital coke, is it possession with digital intent?

 

Moral implications of shark cards in GTA is ridiculous.

What next, threaten people with custodial sentences for digital murder?

[Jenkiiii]

I'm not sure why the need for such an aggressive counter-attack from YouKnowWhoIAm here? @White Shark was merely and politely entering into a discussion on the potential morals of shark cards.

 

As far as i'm concerned, the reason casinos never became a reality in GTA online is because Rockstar never found a way to successfully monetise them through its current business model. Not only that, but GTA$ are not an official digital currency, which can be cashed back into real-life money at the end of the day - the way that real-life casinos work.

 

Anyway, cut the aggression. It's uncalled for.

 

 

[kenmy13999]

2 hours ago, KingpinRCR said:

I beg to differ.  In Belgium loot boxes are considered gambling and thus illegal in games.  What’s the difference with gta$?  Both are digital items with no real value.  And it’s not just Belgium,  The Netherlands, Germany and Portugal also want to ban lootboxes and it is being discussed in the european parlement to ban them all across Europe.

Being able to gamble for ingame currency or items you can use in-game seem like the same thing to me...

 

edit:  and yes, it does cover the last 5 years.  First of all,  governements didn’t start with this overnight this year but where being busy with this for much longer.  Second, R* knew this could be problematic.  So instead of giving it to some they gave it to no-one, wich is simpeler than giving it to some not to others.

With lootboxes you don't know what you're getting, you're buying a "box" where you can get everything from really bad items to really good items. When you buy shark cards you get in game GTA dollars and you also know exactly how much Gta dollars you get, so what you use those gta dollars on probably won't get in under any gambling laws. If they fall under any gambling laws, they will probably do it even if there's no casino 

[Nyamber]

"YouKnowWhoIAm" sure reminds me a lot of "DemonicSpaceman"...

[0cta]

52 minutes ago, YouKnowWhoIAm said:

Your comments regarding the casino not opening are incorrect.

 

It's too simple to say they are incorrect. It's just like your opinion, man.

 

R* beeing lazy could just settle on the common denominator before just risking a lawsuit somewhere in the world. Why should they if they could to endless other stuff for DLCs? Companies tend to overcompensate. Before censoring the violance too little for the game to be released in germany for their desired rating, they might just censor it to redicously stupid levels and even block legal imported versions completely

 

The legal realm could be a factor in that, balancing could be a factor as well. Maybe not, only R* knows. Without sources these are all just claims and we can speculate.

52 minutes ago, YouKnowWhoIAm said:

You use the words "real world currency" a lot when we are talking GTA$ which are not real world currency, they aren't even items of value.

And i definitely remember that GTA$ from sharkcards cannot be removed along with the other ingame-money because they're items of value.

Edited September 26, 2018 by 0cta

[Mach1bud]

1 hour ago, White Shark said:

Either way, mods feel free to close this.

No problem.

 

Topic closed.