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ColeAce

Gambling in RDR and legal issues..

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ALifeOfMisery
2 minutes ago, Anonamix said:

The difference is RDR2 is actually for adults.  Maybe the issue is with the ESRB?  IDK,  it just seems like there are already a lot of options already on the market why target RDR2?  Actually curious.

My guess, and it's just that, a guess, but the inevitable amount of underage children who will play RDO could be an issue.

 

As for why target RDR2, R* are a big scalp to go after, any "campaigners" will get far more media coverage going up a company such as R* than against a F2P mobile developer the general public have never heard of.

 

All it would take is one Mumsnet type getting militant because their little Johnny ran up a few grand of debt playing poker in "the latest game from the developer of the controversial Grand Theft Auto franchise" to create a media sh*tstorm R* probably wouldn't want to have to bother about in the current climate surrounding gambling in games.

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Anonamix
3 minutes ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

My guess, and it's just that, a guess, but the inevitable amount of underage children who will play RDO could be an issue.

 

As for why target RDR2, R* are a big scalp to go after, any "campaigners" will get far more media coverage going up a company such as R* than against a F2P mobile developer the general public have never heard of.

 

All it would take is one Mumsnet type getting militant because their little Johnny ran up a few grand of debt playing poker in "the latest game from the developer of the controversial Grand Theft Auto franchise" to create a media sh*tstorm R* probably wouldn't want to have to bother about in the current climate surrounding gambling in games.

 

As much as that infuriates me.. It is unfortunately true.  Konami has a slots mobile game that allows you to cash your digital chips in for actual rooms and chips in vegas.  But Im pretty sure Konami is rather IDGAF on these matters.

I still find it hard to believe that R* lawyers wouldn't be able to fight this.  This product is intended for adults, and I personally think it would be the parent's fault in such an occurrence. 

 

I personally hate microtransactoins.  But not as much as I hate unnecessary regulations.  If you're an adult and you want to dump your cash into something that is on you.  

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Mr Fyn666
3 minutes ago, Anonamix said:

 This product is intended for adults, and I personally think it would be the parent's fault in such occurrence 

This is a really good point that I failed to consider...

 

Having spent some time in GTAO and being inundated with squeekers I completely forgot this!!

 

Maybe R* just say f*ck it... Adults game, adults rules...

 

 

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ALifeOfMisery
2 minutes ago, Anonamix said:

 

As much as that infuriates me.. It is unfortunately true.  Konami has a slots mobile game that allows you to cash your digital chips in for actual rooms and chips in vegas.  But Im pretty sure Konami is rather IDGAF on these matters.

I still find it hard to believe that R* lawyers wouldn't be able to fight this.  This product is intended for adults, and I personally think it would be the parent's fault in such an occurrence. 

 

I personally hate microtransactoins.  But not as much as I hate unnecessary regulations.  If you're an adult and you want to dump your cash into something that is on you.  

Couldn't agree with you more. 

 

I despise microtransactions and think they have no place being connected, in any way, with a AAA game. What GTAO has become disappoints me no end.

 

But, part of me would love R* to include poker and use a tiny fraction of those GTAO billions just to have their lawyers argue, on public record, that little Johnny's Mumsnet militant parents shouldn't have allowed him to play an 18/M rated game and definitely shouldn't have given him unsupervised access to their credit card.

 

But that's just the anarchist in me seeking entertainment I suspect.

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Mr Fyn666
3 minutes ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

 just to have their lawyers argue, on public record, that little Johnny's Mumsnet militant parents shouldn't have allowed him to play an 18/M rated game and definitely shouldn't have given him unsupervised access to their credit card .

LMAO...

 

Absolute quality...

 

If they do real money poker, I'll take great pleasure in relieving Jonny of his parents hard earned!!

 

Life lesson an all that! 

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Anonamix
1 minute ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

Couldn't agree with you more. 

 

I despise microtransactions and think they have no place being connected, in any way, with a AAA game. What GTAO has become disappoints me no end.

 

But, part of me would love R* to include poker and use a tiny fraction of those GTAO billions just to have their lawyers argue, on public record, that little Johnny's Mumsnet militant parents shouldn't have allowed him to play an 18/M rated game and definitely shouldn't have given him unsupervised access to their credit card.

 

But that's just the anarchist in me seeking entertainment I suspect.

Let that same parent try to pull that bs on Visa or Mastercard.  "But it was my kid that spent the money".  Wouldn't mean a damn I'd imagine.  So I think R* can beat that.  Sure there would be some ugly press, but it would be worth the boatload of funds they'd bring it.

So it could be about the new regulations.  Like we should all realize it can be considered gambling.  And the age for that is different in different places.  So Idk, maybe with countries banning games with microtransactions and EA getting all that sh*t.. maybe thats an issue.

 

Or maybe just how easy hackers and whatnot could exploit those systems. 

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Mr Fyn666

Things like this have happened before and the consumer always loses...

 

I can't remember exact details but several parents have failed to set up parental controls correctly only to find "our amazing offspring" has emptied the bank account on extra accessories for their virtual world while the "parents" are emptying another bottle of red...

 

And then they whine and complain that the "horrible company" shouldn't have offered said service!!

 

Beggars belief.....

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ALifeOfMisery
17 minutes ago, Anonamix said:

Let that same parent try to pull that bs on Visa or Mastercard.  "But it was my kid that spent the money".  Wouldn't mean a damn I'd imagine. 

I worked for HSBC many, many years ago and in a case where you knew who had  spent your money without authorization you would have been expected to report the theft to the police.

 

The situation has probably altered since then, but banks aren't in the business of just handing money back.

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1898

Another wrinkle that gets thrown in here is that from everything I've read, R* is deadset against players exchanging in-game currency. I doubt that will change with RDR2.

 

One way around that? Me and a buddy at the same table, I go all in on 9 high nothing.

Edited by 1898

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Jimmarn

As other have mentioned having two currencies could be a potential fix or workaround. 

But that might mean that the gambling currency might not be an option for all purchases which would really sick imo.

 

The best thing would be if microtransactions only applied directly to items instead of currency at all.

 

Okay best would be no microtransactions of any sort, but that won't happen

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SofiannP

Are you slow Jimmarn? You can see Four Kings Casino has no legal issues being up on the Playstation Store with micro-transactions. 


WHAT LEGAL ISSUES HOMIE?! 🤠

Edited by SofiannP

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theEwing1979

This discussion/argument crops up so often. There really is no legal issue as far I'm concerned. So long as GTA dollars or RDR dollars cannot be cashed out for real world currency, there is no issue. Plenty of other games allow you to gamble in game currencies. In GTA online you can bet on yourself or other players to win races for f*ck sake. 

 

The real issue is the potential for the gambling to be exploited. Whether it be cheating/glitching or transfering in game currency to other players. 

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P.T.
On 10/6/2018 at 7:17 PM, Jimmarn said:

As other have mentioned having two currencies could be a potential fix or workaround. 

But that might mean that the gambling currency might not be an option for all purchases which would really sick imo.

 

The best thing would be if microtransactions only applied directly to items instead of currency at all.

 

Okay best would be no microtransactions of any sort, but that won't happen

Well they could do what some Free 2 Play games do. You have two currencies. In game earned and purchased with money. Items you buy can be bought with either, but at different prices for each. There are some games already doing this , so i know its possible. Like it could be X shirt for 50 $ (in game currency price) or 30 chips (poker "money") . Its very possible to do this, numerous games already do. Would be a middle ground for that. Then just let you earn chips by doing missions, finding them hidden , etc.

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Jimmarn
9 hours ago, SofiannP said:

Are you slow Jimmarn? You can see Four Kings Casino has no legal issues being up on the Playstation Store with micro-transactions. 


WHAT LEGAL ISSUES HOMIE?! 🤠

I assume it's not a huge widely known game, I didn't know about it at least. And I'm talking about the strict EU laws against gambling in games which the game you mentioned might as well go against and potentially could be shut down for it in theory. There's plenty of examples of games getting sued from Belgium for violating the laws with just having lootcrates.

 

20 minutes ago, P.T. said:

Well they could do what some Free 2 Play games do. You have two currencies. In game earned and purchased with money. Items you buy can be bought with either, but at different prices for each. There are some games already doing this , so i know its possible. Like it could be X shirt for 50 $ (in game currency price) or 30 chips (poker "money") . Its very possible to do this, numerous games already do. Would be a middle ground for that. Then just let you earn chips by doing missions, finding them hidden , etc.


Yeah I'd hope for that, I would just fear that if that was the case, and they want to "force" people to use microtransactions they'd make some items only purchasable with the currency that can't be used with gambling so you can't earn a lot of that with playing against other players in gambling.

Edited by Jimmarn

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Mik73

Thinking a bit more on this, I suppose R* could simply wuus out and make games of Poker/Dice just like any other 'mission'. With fixed $$ rewards based on final position. So it would work like this:

1. Get in Lobby, wait for it to fill or host to 'Start'

2. Everyone gets to the table with $100 in their pot (not taken from their own money).

3. You play until you lose your money or you win the table.

4. You get winnings based on your final placement. Money earned would be fixed based on number of players who played the game (and didn't rage-quit).  

 

So the 'winner' of a full table might get say $100 (thinking of Old West amounts here). 2nd place gets $80, etc down to last place gets $10 or $20. And of course some RP. If fewer players started the game, winning amount is adjusted (downward).

 

So there's little or no chance of anyone exploiting it more then anyone can exploit races for 'huge dollars' in GTA. No one loses money. It's just another mini-game like darts, racing, golf, tennis, etc in GTA. You could spend 10 minutes gambling for a chance at $100. Or you could spend 10 minutes doing a Contact Mission for a guaranteed $50 or whatever. It's not a 'get rich quick' scheme. It's just gameplay and Old West ambience.

 

That would leave room for 'Premium High-Stakes' tables - Like those Super Series races in GTA (or whatever they're called). You have to pony up some money to get to the table. Winner gets a bigger amount then normal gambling, losers get nothing or much less. Lost your entry fee? No problem, it's no more then 2 or 3 Contact Missions to earn it back.

 

Maybe it sucks the life outta the whole idea of gambling for riches. But it sounds safe and shouldn't run afoul of any country's gambling laws or whatever.

 

Edited by Mik73

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Lonely-Martin

Read much for and against in GTA:O and see sense on both sides really.

 

But I really do want to play poker against real players. :)

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SmokesWithCigs

I don't see the issue since they had liars and thieves update that had gambling in the previous red. I didn't get to play it because the game was broken. I want to gamble I dontt care about micro transactions and shark cards. Maybe there could he a cap on how much you are allowed to bet.

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SherifWayne

Man this thread is the most idiotic thing I've read in a while. No, there won't be two currencies, no there won't be new laws made, gambling will act the same as every other minigame. You enter the minigame, you play the minigame, and at the end the winner is rewarded with money. It's no more "gambling" than doing a race in GTA Online or having a deathmatch. Come back to this thread in November and see that I was right.

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came99

People seem to miss the big point here:

 

You can't cash out.. So no problem at all.. Move along, people. There isn't and never were any issue here. 

 

 

Edited by came99

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HockeyMike24
20 hours ago, SherifWayne said:

Man this thread is the most idiotic thing I've read in a while. No, there won't be two currencies, no there won't be new laws made, gambling will act the same as every other minigame. You enter the minigame, you play the minigame, and at the end the winner is rewarded with money. It's no more "gambling" than doing a race in GTA Online or having a deathmatch. Come back to this thread in November and see that I was right.

 

Not to mention other games have had gambling in their online components. Including actual online casino games. Test Drive Unlimited 2 is probably the best example. If there is no gambling, it won't be due to legal issues. It will be due to R* avoiding possible exploits and transfering money to other players.

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darkdayz
On 9/22/2018 at 7:24 PM, ColeAce said:

So Ive been thinking about gambling in the online game.  Remember how we always thought that GTA5 would add gambling to online but never did?  Im wondering if there are potential legal issues since there is real money involved.  Buy shark card-then gamble online.  Also, do they want us to be gambling online and potentially win a lot of money?  Although, the house always wins.  Thoughts on gambling in Red Dead Online?

 

I'm pretty sure this was an issue they did not overcome for GTA V, given there was casino audio files and the damn thing never opened.

 

There's a simple way to do it, just ensure that you can only spend in the gambling games what you have EARNT, rather than BOUGHT via cards. Two currencies. Kind of like GTA has hand cash and bank cash. Then you are not gambling real money, it is effectively just like single player then.

 

That'd work fine.

Edited by darkdayz

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darkdayz
On 10/15/2018 at 6:38 PM, came99 said:

People seem to miss the big point here:

 

You can't cash out.. So no problem at all.. Move along, people. There isn't and never were any issue here. 

 

 

 

This is not true at all. Just because you cannot cash out real money, it does not mean that it isn't gambling.

 

It is currently being discussed at government if loot boxes are gambling because they are random. And that's not as bad as this.

 

Not to mention the fact that gambling is illegal full stop in a lot of places across the planet. Regardless of age or whatever.

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TheIllaDopest

i would say a $5 max pot, and a 24 hr cooldown after.

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Smokewood

Just make online poker and gambling in game be against NPCs only.

Allow dominoes to be played amoung players and no gambling.

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Verbal Soze

You know you can gamble your wife in the west rite rite boy? 

gave the outlaws some wussy mang🤠

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Pressure Drop

It's really not that big an issue, the money involved with playing poker etc doesn't have to bear any relevance to your actual in-game money, it can be a seperate currency. Although the suggestion above that you have to do a certain in-game task to get chips is a good one.

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The Wandering Hunter

just make it so your losses are compensated for.

 

sure you can’t lose if this were the case but you’d still have spent time gambling when you could have been robbing people and made no money. so you have still lost.

Edited by The Wandering Hunter

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RyuNova

Like you had Banked and Pocket Money in GTAO you would have Buffalo Bonds and Pocket Money.

Buffalo Bonds can ONLY be used in shops and CANNOT be used to gamble. Only earned Pocket Money can be.

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