Red Dead Redemption 2: Discussion & Speculation (Part 3)

[Dick Justice]

Both games are going to begin on boats in Blackwater, aren’t they?

[joshua969]

21 minutes ago, Sensei ‎ said:

No Charles?

Looks like I f*cked up....swap Charles for Hosea

[saintsrow]

2 hours ago, TheLordMarvel said:

 

Pretty much spot on! - About $4,550,000 or so.

And they spent it all on gambling, whiskey, and wild women...  

 

[damienrayemusic]

its SO nice seeing Red Dead Redemption 2 everywhere.. wtf I still cant believe after 8 long years, its finally happening

[saintsrow]

41 minutes ago, MrHarlow said:

Anyone else happy to see they are using the Pinkertons? It just has a good ring to it. 

Pinkertons:  Merryweather 1899.  

[Non Funkable Token]

^I'm a f*cking marine! errrr.... A cavalry boy!

[BretMaverick777]

2 hours ago, damienrayemusic said:

Whoa... that makes total sense!! Hell yeah!!!!

No, there's a LOT more than 7 core members of the gang. 

 

A LOT.

 

Dutch

Arthur

John

Bill

Javier

Charles

Lenny

Sean

Hosea

Micah

Karen

Sadie

Abigail

Pearson

 

And a lot more we DON'T know the names of, yet they appear in multiple camp shots in the previews...

The Doctor

The Belle

The Laundress

The Seamstress

The Gunfighter

The Preacher

The Soldier

The Miner

 

*Edit:   And Uncle.

Everybody forgets Uncle.

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by BretMaverick777

[saintsrow]

1 hour ago, damienrayemusic said:

What I also took from this just now... "For the robbery of close to 150,000 in banknotes from a boat in BLACKWATER... blackwater has lots of water, ironically has the name in it... John gets off at blackwater in RDR1... swimming or at least boat transportation/usage confirmed?! Sounds like we will not just be robbing banks and trains... but one thing John didnt mention... BOATS!! boat heist!!

So maybe RDR2 starts with a boat heist, and the only getaway vehicle they give us access to is a canoe - equivalent to a Faggio on water.  

 

[zachsterosu]

Hey @Brett Baumler(aka @RedDeadRenegade) our hunch about West Elizabeth was right lol!

 

On 12/6/2017 at 7:50 PM, zachsterosu said:

"There's something I've been thinking about for a while, regarding the map borders. That big Reddit leak mentioned that the game spanned 5 zones, which would likely be the states/territories(also, he'd apparently confirmed the map's validity). Now for the longest time, I couldn't find a decent way to split up the map evenly, while still having it make sense geographically. I was thinking that he may have been incorrect in what he remembered, or just had outdated info. The main issue, was that West Elizabeth just seemed to small to be it's own state. I now believe that's because what was in RDR was just part of West Elizabeth. One of the first things I noticed while playing around with boundary colors, was that Big Valley was almost the same shade as W.E. Most other districts had distinctly different shades with those they bordered. Now this may just be attributed to terrain similarities, but there doesn't seem to be much of that if you look at where The Heartlands and Scarlett Meadows meet. I think Big Valley is the rest of West Elizabeth, and there is a decent amount of evidence in the first game to support this. User RedDeadRenegade actually made a post about this same thing on the Sub-Reddit, and along with the same conclusions I made, found some additional evidence that I'd never picked up on, so I'll just let him explain: 

Quote

"While scouring over the leaked RDR II map, a thought came across my mind. For those who don't know, the West Elizabeth area from RDR will be returning in the new game. It occurred to me that it's never explicitly stated that Tall Trees and Great Plains are the only areas in the state of West Elizabeth. It always struck me as odd that a state big enough to have its own governor only had one town in it.

So, maybe its possible that some of the new areas will still technically be within the state of West Elizabeth, but just areas we couldn't see in RDR. Like the "Big Valley" area on the new map could fall under West Elizabeth's jurisdiction. I think that would make sense because they look to have similar terrain. I also say this because in RDR, Nastas says that some of the Natives from the local reservation are turning to Dutch. He specifically says local implying its within the state. But there isn't any reservation you can find within the map. Well, on the Big Valley area of the leaked map (which is directly north of the Tall Trees/Great Plains area, and even shares a land border) there's a place called "Painted Sky" which sounds like the name of a reservation to me. In one of the RDR newspapers, they also mention Dutch killing two guys at a homestead "just north" of Blackwater. Well, on the leaked map, there's a homestead directly north of Blackwater. It would make a lot of sense that they were in the same state, especially because the newspaper was reporting on it like it was a local issue. This all makes me think that the state of West Elizabeth is bigger than what we saw in RDR, and that new parts of the map in RDR II will be considered a part of West Elizabeth. Just speculation of course."

What we concluded was that there's no way Dutch's gang operated out of a state that has literally one town/bank. Now as for the rest of the map, this made things wayyy easier to dissect. What helped even more was trying to interpret what states/locations R* is trying to interpret with each district. I think I've narrowed it down to just 2 variations. The first makes more sense in terms of land mass, and also if each zone will be it's own state. However, I feel like states continuing across that big of a river is a bit far-fetched. The second makes more sense geographically, and from a game-play standpoint, but the shape and location of some boundary lines seems odd"

Edit: I altered the quote to remove the map pictures, for those who don't want it spoiled

 

I find it interesting that they're actually using the "Pinkerton" name for the agency, I was almost certain they'd have to change it. I guess they did take out "National", as "Pinkerton National Detective Agency" was the full name.

Edited September 6, 2018 by zachsterosu

[Canady117]

2 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

No, there's a LOT more than 7 core members of the gang. 

 

A LOT.

 

Dutch

Arthur

John

Bill

Javier

Charles

Lenny

Sean

Hosea

Micah

Karen

Sadie

Abigail

Pearson

 

And a lot more we DON'T know the names of, yet they appear in multiple camp shots in the previews...

The Doctor

The Belle

The Laundress

The Seamstress

The Gunfighter

The Preacher

The Soldier

The Miner

 

*Edit:   And Uncle.

Everybody forgets Uncle.

 

 

 

I think the use of the word "core" suggests the primary gang members we have been introduced to and seen and heard a lot from already. We've seen/heard a lot of Arthur, and Dutch/John/Javier/Bill(obviously), and we've seen/heard a bit from Sadie, Micah, and Charles. The other members of the gang did not seem so prevalent throughout the trailers so far. Yes, we've heard of Pearson and Abigail and Uncle and some of the others, but *core* suggests essentially the "A-Team" of the gang.

[damienrayemusic]

8 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

No, there's a LOT more than 7 core members of the gang. 

 

A LOT.

 

Dutch

Arthur

John

Bill

Javier

Charles

Lenny

Sean

Hosea

Micah

Karen

Sadie

Abigail

Pearson

 

And a lot more we DON'T know the names of, yet they appear in multiple camp shots in the previews...

The Doctor

The Belle

The Laundress

The Seamstress

The Gunfighter

The Preacher

The Soldier

The Miner

 

*Edit:   And Uncle.

Everybody forgets Uncle.

 

 

 

haha yes we know. but theres 7 core members hinted at. i dont think the core 7 had all of them from the ground up days of the gang

 

[BretMaverick777]

2 minutes ago, Canady117 said:

I think the use of the word "core" suggests the primary gang members we have been introduced to and seen and heard a lot from already. We've seen/heard a lot of Arthur, and Dutch/John/Javier/Bill(obviously), and we've seen/heard a bit from Sadie, Micah, and Charles. The other members of the gang did not seem so prevalent throughout the trailers so far. Yes, we've heard of Pearson and Abigail and Uncle and some of the others, but *core* suggests essentially the "A-Team" of the gang.

"Core" is also never once mentioned anywhere in Rockstar's tweet.   Just some dude in Twitter comments concocted a Keanu moment...."whoa dude, seven weeks left, seven core members, that means one wanted poster for each of the seven core gang members!  whoa dude"

 

No.   No, it doesn't, Keanu

[joshua969]

In b4 half the forum changes their avatar to the Sadie wanted poster.

 

@BretMaverick777 I hope you’re right.  I’d love to see these for every gang member.

Edited September 6, 2018 by joshua969

[BretMaverick777]

Just now, joshua969 said:

I think they’ll use the 7 from the early artwork and first trailer.

"Seven" is never mentioned in Rockstar's tweet, either, strangely enough

 

 

 

[Canady117]

1 minute ago, BretMaverick777 said:

"Core" is also never once mentioned anywhere in Rockstar's tweet.   Just some dude in Twitter comments concocted a Keanu moment...."whoa dude, seven weeks left, seven core members, that means one wanted poster for each of the seven core gang members!  whoa dude"

 

No.   No, it doesn't, Keanu

 

I know it was never mentioned by Rockstar, but again, when you look back to all of the trailers we've been shown - as well as RDR1 - the game seems to focus on those 8 gang members more than any of the others combined. Arthur and Dutch for obvious reasons, John, Bill, and Javier for obvious reasons, Sadie, Micah, and Charles all have pretty significant to somewhat significant scenes respectively as well.

[damienrayemusic]

im thinking Arthur, Dutch, John, Bill, Javier, Charles, and Micah (confident on all this but if wrong about Micah, then Sadie is the 7th. will be the 7 main members. the magnificent seven, if you will

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by damienrayemusic

[Zello]

Dutch's bag is the most important core member of the gang.

[BretMaverick777]

1 minute ago, Canady117 said:

I know it was never mentioned by Rockstar, but again, when you look back to all of the trailers we've been shown - as well as RDR1 - the game seems to focus on those 8 gang members more than any of the others combined. Arthur and Dutch for obvious reasons, John, Bill, and Javier for obvious reasons, Sadie, Micah, and Charles all have pretty significant to somewhat significant scenes respectively as well.

I think we're gonna find that the only significance to the number seven in RDR2 is that it's probably the mission limit.  We'll probably be able to take up to 6 gang members in addition to Arthur on any given mission.   Otherwise, I don't believe there's any such thing as "seven core members," since Dutch has been operating since at least 1878, and his camp pictures are miniature towns full of folk unto themselves.  

[joshua969]

Probably won’t happen, but dropping gameplay #2 on Spider-Man release day would be typical R* trolling.

[damienrayemusic]

1 minute ago, Zello said:

Dutch's bag is the most important core member of the gang.

"in the next gameplay video, you'll see Arthur Morgan trying to annoy his camp at night. We will look at multiple ways to achieve this, all while carrying dutches bag for an immersive gameplay experience."

[Canady117]

1 minute ago, BretMaverick777 said:

I think we're gonna find that the only significance to the number seven in RDR2 is that it's probably the mission limit.  We'll probably be able to take up to 6 gang members in addition to Arthur on any given mission.   Otherwise, I don't believe there's any such thing as "seven core members," since Dutch has been operating since at least 1878, and his camp pictures are miniature towns full of folk unto themselves.  

I don't know about any significance to seven (or eight counting Dutch) other than it just seems to add up that we know A LOT about 8 members of the gang and there are 8 weeks left till release. We could be wrong, and Rockstar just decided to give us a Dutch bounty today for no reason. But I don't believe Rockstar does anything without calculation. They gave us close-up glimpses into the lives of John and Dutch in RDR1 as well as looks into Bill and Javier. Now with all of the trailers we've been shown, we've been given a better look at Sadie, Micah, and Charles, as well as obviously Arthur - moreso than any of the other gang members. It just all seems to add up that, while Dutch's gang is large and full of colorful characters, Rockstar has chosen to give us more information on these 8 characters more than any of the other characters. Again, I don't know what other significance there is to 7 or 8 or missions or whatever. But I do know that if many of us have noticed that there is 8 weeks left and 8 characters we know more about than any of the other characters in game, Rockstar has noticed this too. I don't believe they just gave us a Dutch bounty poster for no reason at all at this point in time with 8 weeks to go. Rockstar knows what they're doing.

[Dick Justice]

Break it down by the characters who appear in the first game and have had speaking parts in the trailers: Dutch, Arthur, John, Bill, Javier, Micah, Sadie, Charles and Hosea. No other gang member has been significantly focused on in the trailers or art, except for maybe Lenny (who was among the seven riders in the first trailer but still hasn’t been heard).

 

All that said, I personally think that these are going to come out sooner rather than later, and they definitely won’t be releasing one per week. This looks like a classic guerilla marketing tactic. These wanted posters will be all across New York in two weeks time; just like the wanted posters in 2008 for Niko, Jacob, Elizabeta and Vlad.  

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Dick Justice

[Big_Smiley]

13 minutes ago, Zello said:

Dutch's bag is the most important core member of the gang.

Keep those eyes peeled for that wanted poster people. "Y'all hear now that bag is the most dangerous one out of the group??"

 

Boah, I never...these kinda of bags aren't to be messed with out in the wild west....

Edited September 6, 2018 by Big_Smiley

[Mirokunite]

28 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

No, there's a LOT more than 7 core members of the gang. 

 

A LOT.

 

Dutch

Arthur

John

Bill

Javier

Charles

Lenny

Sean

Hosea

Micah

Karen

Sadie

Abigail

Pearson

 

And a lot more we DON'T know the names of, yet they appear in multiple camp shots in the previews...

The Doctor

The Belle

The Laundress

The Seamstress

The Gunfighter

The Preacher

The Soldier

The Miner

 

*Edit:   And Uncle.

Everybody forgets Uncle.

 

 

 

Don't forget.

The Poet

The Physician

The Farmer

The Scientist

The Magician

and the other so-called Gods of our legends.

[Canady117]

1 minute ago, Big_Smiley said:

Keep those eyes peeled for that wanted poster people. "Y'all hear now that bag is the most dangerous one out of the group??"

 

Boah, I never...these kinda of bags aren't to messed with out in the wild west....

"You know, Dutch's Bag used to be a hired killer for the jews!" - Herbert Moon

[BretMaverick777]

2 minutes ago, Dick Justice said:

Break it down by the characters who appear in the first game and have had speaking parts in the trailers: Dutch, Arthur, John, Bill, Javier, Micah, Sadie, Charles and Hosea. No other gang member has been significantly focused on in the trailers or art, except for maybe Lenny (who was among the seven riders in the first trailer but still hasn’t been heard).

 

 

Hosea...?   Cripes, Hosea talks more than any of them. 

 

I think marketing is gonna look at reaching as broad an audience as possible.   That means focusing not just on the big guns (literally), but on characters who could attract female players (Sadie, Karen, Abigail, others who haven't been named yet), black players (Lenny, and the girl who may or may not become Arthur's IR love interest, since she was all up on her cowboy in that last trailer), Native American players (yay, token native, bringing out my native pride with that name....um, "Charles Smith"), latinos (Javier), stoners (Micah), old folks (Hosea, Uncle), sex workers (Karen "Are My Boobs Hanging Out Again?"), squeakers (Little Jack at age 5), etc

[dkunit]

3 minutes ago, Canady117 said:

"You know, Dutch's Bag used to be a hired killer for the jews!" - Herbert Moon

The bag killed Lincoln, you know.

[Playboi]

 

18 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

I think we're gonna find that the only significance to the number seven in RDR2 is that it's probably the mission limit.  We'll probably be able to take up to 6 gang members in addition to Arthur on any given mission.   Otherwise, I don't believe there's any such thing as "seven core members," since Dutch has been operating since at least 1878, and his camp pictures are miniature towns full of folk unto themselves.  

If there's really no significance to it then why did they pick these seven characters specifically? Why didn't they include Hosea for example, or Sadie, or Lenny? 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Sensei ‎

[Canady117]

Just now, dkunit said:

The bag killed Lincoln, you know.

"The railroad is just a front for Dutch's Bag to run the country!" - Herbert Moon

[Dick Justice]

1 minute ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Hosea...?   Cripes, Hosea talks more than any of them. 

 

I think marketing is gonna look at reaching as broad an audience as possible.   That means focusing not just on the big guns (literally), but on characters who could attract female players (Sadie, Karen, Abigail, others who haven't been named yet), black players (Lenny, and the girl who may or may not become Arthur's IR love interest, since she was all up on her cowboy in that last trailer), Native American players (yay, token native, bringing out my native pride with that name....um, "Charles Smith"), latinos (Javier), stoners (Micah), old folks (Hosea, Uncle), sex workers (Karen "Are My Boobs Hanging Out Again?"), squeakers (Little Jack at age 5), etc

But how about the fact that not every member of the gang is going to be considered a wanted criminal by the Pinkertons? I can’t imagine they’ll have a wanted poster for little Jack lmao.