Car Balancing DLC needed?

[caarl00s]

I miss those days when the Pariah didn’t exist. God that car is the one hate the most on races. Completely messed up Sports class. When is rockstar going to move it to Supers?

 

Seriously i dont mind that much the Vagner and Yosemite in their respective class; but the god damn Pariah makes completely useless every other single sports car...

[Pedinhuh]

The Pariah is never being kicked upstairs to Supers because it's not a super car.

 

The only thing they would realisticly do to it is nerf the multipliers it has when you install upgrades...That or add handling flags and completely ruin it.

 

Either way, as soon as they nerf it - if they ever will - I'll be selling mine because I don't even like to look at it, but I still need it for races.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Pedinhuh

[Darekl92]

6 hours ago, Pedinhuh said:

The only thing they would realisticly do to it is nerf the multipliers it has when you install upgrades...That or add handling flags and completely ruin it. 

 

Crybabies would complain. Maybe just add Pariah's upgrades multipilers to every other car. Stock Pariah is more or less on every high-tier sportcar level, something like Seven-70 or Massacro. It's engine or transmission upgrade that makes it ridiculously overpowered when compared to rest.

[Marciliojunior01]

Removing the multiplier is something so simple that if they havent done yet is because they dont want to. Is just change one number, any modder can do it with ease. Rockstar wont do nothing about the pariah unless we have a proper fixing dlc. 

[caarl00s]

On 10/1/2018 at 9:26 AM, Pedinhuh said:

The Pariah is never being kicked upstairs to Supers because it's not a super car.

 

The only thing they would realisticly do to it is nerf the multipliers it has when you install upgrades...That or add handling flags and completely ruin it.

 

Either way, as soon as they nerf it - if they ever will - I'll be selling mine because I don't even like to look at it, but I still need it for races.

You know, i quite like how the Pariah looks! However i just hate it so much because of the fact that it’s extremely op that i even refuse to buy it just for the sake of being op. 

 

Seriously nerf it or move it to other class i really don’t mind either way, but the main problem here is for it to happen.

[Dinosbacsi]

Yes. GTA V could be one of the best arcade racing games if they took the time to fix these issues. Would this be a big project, yet it would. But do they have the resources, yes they do. This game is their biggest money maker so far, I wish they did something with it.

[Action_Andy]

R* won't fix anything ever, so race crews and organized events/playlists with rules are the answer. In random lobbys I balance the race myself, by nerfing me using Lurchers and Taipans and stuff.

[Hegedus.Roberto]

[Following added to the first post:]

After a lot of research and designing, I made a possible car classing layout that I would suggest to Rockstar if they feel re-balancing the cars in the game.

This classing doesn't change the performence of any old car, except for those that have advanced handling flags. These classes were made in mind that brougty1322 and his racing community is working hard to let rockstar know that we wish cars to have the performance maching their price range.

 

With the exception of Commercial and Emergency, I reerranged the current 327 vehicles of the game into 30 different classes based on their performance and theme! Of course I faced a few problems:

1, Stragglers
There are some odd-ball cars of course where finding an appropriate class was impossible, but I wanted to provide the best possible solution to Rockstar that they can do with the least amout of work.
1 example of this is the Drift Tampa with it's 1:08.334 lap time
Every other car's laptime in the TopTierMuscles class is in the 1:06-1:07, so it's in a bit of a disatvantage there. However I couldn't put it into the PerformaceMuscles class either, because those are perfectly in balance without him with all of them having 1:09-1:10 times. Luckily this change would still influence the Drift Tampa positivly as it is currently in the sports class with 8 second disatvantage compared to cars like tha Pariah. Compared to that this 2 second doesn't mean a garanteed loss in a race. 

2, Unsalvagable classes

The Kamacho. Too powerful for any other themical class. The fastest class it could be put in would be the balanced Rallies class with their times around 1:07-1:08 but there it would dominate with an entire second with it's 1:05.734 time. So what to do? Ruin the perfectly balanced Rallies class? Or dump it somewhere else? Many, many cars ended up on the end of the list in the 5 car classes, that vary too much in performance and theme to create a good raceable class, such as the SUVs, Vans, Trucks, Off-roaders and the new class I just call Specialized. Why confuse players by calling the Ruiner 2000 a muscle car, if we can't race it in muscle car races anyway? Just call it Specialized. Most weaponized vehicles and other cars that otherwise weren't fitting into the theme of the performace they were having ended up in the Specialized class.

 

Aside from problems like these the rest of the cars found their way into new classes that I think would create an enjoyable and vibrant racing experience.

Let me know what you think and whenever we should push Rockstar to remake the car classing system into this or something similair!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Hegedus.Roberto

[Marciliojunior01]

6 hours ago, Hegedus.Roberto said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The system seems to complicated mixing cars that doesnt look similar. And also is too splitted which means to win a race vou would have to buy a lot more vehicles than you have now. 

[Hegedus.Roberto]

7 hours ago, Marciliojunior01 said:

The system seems to complicated mixing cars that doesnt look similar. And also is too splitted which means to win a race vou would have to buy a lot more vehicles than you have now. 

1, The current system mixes a bunch of cars that aren't similiar either (Moonbean in muscles, Drift Tampa in Sports, Banshee 900R in supers.
Compared to that the system I propose has far less of these obvious blatant classings, that disregard both style and performance. My classing prioritizes performance and tries to fit it into a style, but like I said, that doesn't always work: Example GB200. In theme it should be a Rally car, but It's too strong for the Rally class, it would beat everything. It's performance is around the bottom of PerformanceSports or the middle of Sports. So It ended up in Sports.

2, True, but right now, you own a Pariah and you are unbeatable in sport races if nobody else is using that. How is that better than having multiple more balanced classes where you have fair chance with most of the cars, not just with the 1 best? It is not. In fact, I have 150 cars in total, and I can't use half of them in racing because none of them have a chance in performance in their class. This system could change that.

[Xiled]

Gta IV they put cars in correct classes and had 18 different classes with 4 cars in each 

 

https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Races_in_GTA_IV

[Marciliojunior01]

4 hours ago, Xiled said:

Gta IV they put cars in correct classes and had 18 different classes with 4 cars in each 

 

https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Races_in_GTA_IV

The problema is that in GTA 4 we didnt have about 500 vehicles 

[carnerd3000]

I'm always gonna wish that the vehicles in this game can have realistic top speeds (you know, $2M+ hyper cars that can actually go past 200 MPH with ease.)

 

I agree with @Marciliojunior01 that the classes you proposed are a little too split up IMO. I also agree a performance rating system, like many racing games have, would be a good idea. But truthfully, I have to remind myself that this isn't Forza, NFS, Gran Turismo or whatever - this is a game where you drive around and make a living killing a bunch of people. Sounds oversimplified, but I think you guys get what I am saying.

[Hegedus.Roberto]

Hello friends! Kinda hoped to reignite this conversation. A year ago I proposed a new car classing system, which had a lot of hopeful thinking, first off, I thought that Rockstar would realize that the Advanced Handling Flags are horrible and would remove them. They kinda did since then, since the newest cars don't have them, but it appears to be a hopeless dream that they would go back and remove them from the already existing cars.

 

So I thought I will re-arrange the cars according to their actual performance, not the one I tested without the Advanced Handling Flags.

I also took some of the suggestions into consideration and tried to balance out the classes both in theme and performance.

I also included Broughy1322's laptime testing results so give visual aid why certain cars ended up in the classes they are. Example:
"Flash GT is obvious a rally car, why isn't in the Rallies class?" - you can see that if it were it would demolish that class with 3 seconds. Without it, the Rallies class has 5-6 viable choices for racing.
But let me know what you think, I believe this is the best car classing we could hope for, if R* would decided to do something about the balancing of races, but if you see something or have any suggestion, let me know!

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Hegedus.Roberto

[Halal Cyborg]

Amazing effort and dedication my man!

 

I read through it all there are some mouthwatering classes there.

 

I think they should be available by vehicle type as well as these balanced classes...

[Hegedus.Roberto]

4 hours ago, Halal Cyborg said:

Amazing effort and dedication my man!

 

I read through it all there are some mouthwatering classes there.

 

I think they should be available by vehicle type as well as these balanced classes...

Thanks HalalCybor! Well, really I think the gta vehicle types should get rearranged as they are mainly used to determine what races a car can take part in, they don't really have any other role.
And the GTA car types are very broken, I mean Moonbean Custom is in Muscles, while it's definitely not a muscle type.

 

Anyway, I'm open to any suggestions about re-arrangements, I think I will only update the pic once we have the cars from the 2020 winter update, until then, I keep a changelog on the first page of the things we decide to move around:

Here is 2 little changes that will be applied:

>Kuruma moved from "Performance Sedans" to "Rallies"
Reason: It was the weakest of Performance Sedans but In the Rallies Class it's in the top 5 and because it has 0 off-road traction loss it actually could be even the best choice
>Specter moved from "Tuner Sports" to "Cruiser Sports"
Reason: In Tuner Sports it competed against it's own Benny's variant that was superior. In Cruiser Sports it's a good competition to the Vagrant and Bestia GTA

Edited December 2, 2020 by Hegedus.Roberto

[Halal Cyborg]

Ah I think I didn’t make what I was saying clear.

 

I meant in their correct classes as in literally where they should be not where Rockstar placed them.

 

So Moonbeam would be in vans and Blista Compact in compacts etc etc 

[ddarko12]

Quote

No, because I want Rockstar to focus on making new content instead of fixing the old content

I'll go with this one. I've already given up on Rockstar when it comes to handling/sounds, etc. They're so far gone and deep into the bullsh*t they created that I don't think there's much they could do without screwing it up more or ripping people off who already bought cars.

 

I will say the argument that "GTA isn't a racing game" is a stupid one though. In SP, I have a manual transmission mod (with a more realistic functioning automatic transmission which GTA IV actually had something similar to, and 0 double clutching or any of that bs, as well as some controls such as ABS/traction/gear ratios/etc). But I stick to normal GTA physics. If I don't like how a car drives I adjust its handling.meta.

With all of that, I can say that GTA isn't really far off at all from racing games. It actually only feels a bit more arcade than Forza Horizon, and actually far more realistic than NFS. So nobody should ever pull that card, especially with the hundreds of cars we have in the game and the focus on racing. If this game had manual transmission and higher top speed (which I also have in SP), it'd be very on par with a semi-arcade racer.

 

So that does lead to yes, there should be better balance. Much better balancing. But, they are so far gone that that simply isn't going to happen. So sadly, I just fix the sh*t in SP and would rather them focus on releasing new content so I have more things to play with/fix.

Edited December 2, 2020 by ddarko12

[Hegedus.Roberto]

3 minutes ago, ddarko12 said:

I'll go with. I've already given up on Rockstar when it comes to handling/sounds, etc. They're so far gone and deep into the bullsh*t they created that I don't think there's much they could do without screwing it up more or ripping people off who already bought cars.

 

I will say the argument that "GTA isn't a racing game" is a stupid one though. In SP, I have a manual transmission mod (with a more realistic functioning automatic transmission, and 0 double clutching or any of that bs, as well as ABS/traction/etc). But I stick to normal GTA physics. If I don't like how a car drives I adjust its handling.meta.

With all of that, I can say that GTA isn't really far off at all from racing games. It actually only feels a bit more arcade than Forza Horizon, and actually far more realistic than NFS. So nobody should pull that car. If this game had manual transmission and higher top speed (which I also have in SP), it'd be very on par with a semi-arcade racer.

 

So that does lead to yes, there should be better balance. Much better balancing. But, they are so far gone that that simply isn't going to happen. So sadly, I just fix the sh*t in SP and would rather them focus on releasing new content so I have more things to play with/fix.

I understand and respect your reasoning, but you must also note that we are primarily arguing about GTA Online here not just GTA 5 in general. If my problem would be just the car datas, I could fix that too for my own SinglePlayer world, but the main problem is not aesthetic, it's gameplay related in multiplayer racing.

[ddarko12]

2 minutes ago, Hegedus.Roberto said:

I understand and respect your reasoning, but you must also note that we are primarily arguing about GTA Online here not just GTA 5 in general. If my problem would be just the car datas, I could fix that too for my own SinglePlayer world, but the main problem is not aesthetic, it's gameplay related in multiplayer racing.

Yes, I just looked over your table and that's pretty much exactly how Rockstar should do it. Makes a lot of sense. It's sad that that's not how it is. I only brought up SP because obviously I'm unfortunately done with this broken crap. I really wish they'd fix it up like you did.

Edited December 2, 2020 by ddarko12