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Miamivicecity

Things GTA IV gets criticised for you actually like

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Beato_dim
57 minutes ago, xXxRyanxXx said:

As usual with the jetpack obsession it's only the positives that are put forward, but hardly the negatives.

That's probably because in a single-player game, if the negatives are too big for you, you can just ignore it (outside of mandatory missions). Multiplayer games are a whole different beast, however - hence people's complaints about Oppressor, Deluxo etc. in GTAO.

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TheSantader25
3 hours ago, xXxRyanxXx said:

It also makes the player more vulnerable to gunfire and it's slow as f*ck. As usual with the jetpack obsession it's only the positives that are put forward, but hardly the negatives. I could understand if it was built up as some core vehicle from the beginning of the series with a vital role to play, but the fact is it's only a glorified novelty item that was included in ONE GTA game before GTA IV and after years of pestering by whiny San Andreas fanboys R* finally caved in and included it in GTAO, but not GTA V.

 

Honestly there haven't been too many times if at all where I've been playing GTA IV where I've thought "Geez I really wish I had a jetpack to get into that tight spot". I'm only ever reminded the jetpack exists when I come on here. 

I'm not surprised you didn't feel the need for the jetpack since you already made it clear that IV is close to perfection for you. But then again I wasn't talking about what we "need" in this game. I'm talking about the lack of choices. Obviously the jetpack does have flaws but so does every other vehicle(helicopters can't land in narrow places) and that's what makes these "choices" matter. You choose what's best for the situation you're going to encounter. 

 

Tbh, I felt the jetpack could be used more efficiently in a place like Liberty city in comparison to San Andreas since it has far more tight alleyways. 

 

Also calm down dude. No need to call people "whiny SA fanboys. "

Edited by TheSantader25

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SmokesWithCigs
On 9/17/2018 at 6:36 AM, TheSantader25 said:

Disagreed. The content provided in SA are directly tied to Carl's development throughout the story. Since, Unlike many protagonists, he is not  'made' already when the game starts. He progresses through the story and those elements make it much more believable. 

 

OT

-shooting pigeons:I generally like collectibles in GTA series. GTA games are one of the few games which I enjoy collecting collectibles. That's because there are many unused locations in each GTA that these collectibles introduce them to me. It's always fun to mix them up with the missions throughout the story. 

San Andreas had role playing type mechanics and doimng those side activities helped level cj up. They fit in to cjs world and they weren't silly or unbelievable also a lot of them weren't required to complete the game. They were simple things like races or vehicle missions like bike courier, pimping,  home invasion etc.

Edited by SmokesWithCigs

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SmokesWithCigs
On 9/27/2018 at 1:45 AM, xXxRyanxXx said:

 

I wasn't even comparing TBOGT to real life. Compared to GTA IV and TLAD yes it's considerably brighter and more vibrant, but my main point was it makes it feel/look like it doesn't even occur at the same time which is the entire point of the the GTA IV/EFLC saga to tell three simultaneous stories.

 

Regardless if GTA IV and TLAD are the "stranger ones" atleast they feel parallel to when they occur. I can feel the events of TLAD happening (contextually of course) when I play GTA IV, but not TBOGT because it feels like it's completely out of sync without respect to the season/time it's supposed to be taking place. Ever wonder why most GTA IV fans feel TBOGT is the weakest of the trinity? This is one of the reasons.

Nah tbogt was pretttymuch the same only difference iis the lights at star junction was brighter and a slight adjustment to the color palette of star junction. Also there were some exotic  cars that stood out with bright colors. It fits because theme off tbogt was nightlife. I thing the main difference between tbgot and GTA IV was tbgot had a slightly sharper resolution a d a cleaner look where as gtaIV was blurry and drab. Of course I'm talking about the consoles.

On 9/18/2018 at 2:46 AM, xXxRyanxXx said:

The only thing I found weird was that there was no danger going back to Broker anyway. Besides a similar trope was used in San Andreas when CJ was exiled from Los Santos and later with GTA V when Michael and Trevor were laying low. I don't know, but having essentially the same plot device used in three games would be overkill atleast IMO it would.

 

R* were considering adding countryside to GTA IV, but dropped the idea either because of time constraints and/or they just didn't see it as being feasible. In the future I would love to see Liberty City with the rest of the state like the Carraways for example.

If. You go back to broker the Russians will shoot at you. It doesn't happen often  though

Edited by SmokesWithCigs

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JB1982
1 hour ago, TheSantader25 said:

I'm not surprised you didn't feel the need for the jetpack since you already made it clear that IV is close to perfection for you. But then again I wasn't talking about what we "need" in this game. I'm talking about the lack of choices. Obviously the jetpack does have flaws but so does every other vehicle(helicopters can't land in narrow places) and that's what makes these "choices" matter. You choose what's best for the situation you're going to encounter. 

 

Tbh, I felt the jetpack could be used more efficiently in a place like Liberty city in comparison to San Andreas since it has far more tight alleyways.

Personally I think it's more important that something is "needed" rather than there purely for the sake of it to give you a "choice". But maybe that's just me.

 

As with planes, I have never felt jetpacks were missing from the game. I've neither wanted nor felt they were needed. I just don't think it's something that fits with GTA IV's style. It feels more grounded than say San Andreas which at times can be quite outlandish (not a criticism - I love San Andreas). I think that it's important that what is included in a game is either there because it's required or because it matches the style and tone of the game in question. I don't think either applies for a plane or a jetpack in IV's case.

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TheSantader25
30 minutes ago, JB1982 said:

Personally I think it's more important that something is "needed" rather than there purely for the sake of it to give you a "choice". But maybe that's just me.

 

As with planes, I have never felt jetpacks were missing from the game. I've neither wanted nor felt they were needed. I just don't think it's something that fits with GTA IV's style. It feels more grounded than say San Andreas which at times can be quite outlandish (not a criticism - I love San Andreas). I think that it's important that what is included in a game is either there because it's required or because it matches the style and tone of the game in question. I don't think either applies for a plane or a jetpack in IV's case.

Your statement is a true one regarding linear games. But I feel like open world games require something more than "Missions". 

 

Choice and variety is an important  part of sandbox games(at least IMO)  Things you might not ever encounter during missions. this variety was heavily missed in IV which made it less of a GTA IMO and more like forward linear game. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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JB1982
1 hour ago, TheSantader25 said:

Your statement is a true one regarding linear games. But I feel like open world games require something more than "Missions". 

 

Choice and variety is an important  part of sandbox games(at least IMO)  Things you might not ever encounter during missions. this variety was heavily missed in IV which made it less of a GTA IMO and more like forward linear game. 

But GTA IV did have choice and variety. There's the activities such as pool, darts, shows etc. There's races, stunt jumps, flying rats etc. The choice and variety wasn't missing at all IMO and that's all stuff to be done outside of missions.

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eCola

The lack of tattoo parlors. Where would Niko get one anyway if we never see his forearms?

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TheSantader25
30 minutes ago, JB1982 said:

But GTA IV did have choice and variety. There's the activities such as pool, darts, shows etc. There's races, stunt jumps, flying rats etc. The choice and variety wasn't missing at all IMO and that's all stuff to be done outside of missions.

I meant free mode content precisely. Things you usually make up yourself by the tools initially given by the dev. It's actually the initial reason games like GTA were called "sandbox games" and why a game like GTA 3 was considered a revolution in the industry. After GTA 3 R* added to those "tools" with almost every game(VC and SA) but they suddenly started all over again with IV which led to missing items. The lack of tools(weapon variety and vehicle variety, clothing variety) makes me struggle to come up with things to do in free mode outside missions and side activities. 

 

The best thing I found to do which previous games sucked at was messing with the NPCs since they were more intelligent. 

 

 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Miamivicecity
12 hours ago, JB1982 said:

But GTA IV did have choice and variety. There's the activities such as pool, darts, shows etc. There's races, stunt jumps, flying rats etc. The choice and variety wasn't missing at all IMO and that's all stuff to be done outside of missions.

It's funny because I've spent more time playing pool, darts etc than most things from the 3D era. Finding something to do in GTA IV has never been an issue for me.

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Domand

@Miamivicecity

 

Another name change I see? I recognize this one though.

 My respect list is constantly under edit for you lol😂

Edited by Domand

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Miamivicecity
4 hours ago, Domand said:

@Miamivicecity

 

Another name change I see? I recognize this one though.

 My respect list is constantly under edit for you lol😂

I promise this will be my last. Come around full circle.👍

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Mafia Assassin®
18 hours ago, Miamivicecity said:

I promise this will be my last. Come around full circle.👍

Nah, we know you won't resist, just enjoy your name-changing powers, I would do the same, probably would be worse, lol.

Edited by Mafia Assassin®

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CryptReaperDorian

Unless R* wasn't able to fully work out fixed-wing aircraft physics at the time, I can't really see any excuse to NOT have included the Skimmer in GTA IV. There's many docks around Liberty City and Alderney where you could travel to and from with such a vehicle, and its utility would still have been far greater than that of any boat featured in the game. Besides which, the top speed of the Cessna 152 is still lower than that of the UH-60 Black Hawk (Annihilator). So, you technically wouldn't be flying across the map any faster than you would with a helicopter (actually a bit slower, if kept realistic). The Skimmer would have been a non-obtrusive option that would have fit within the parameters R* set for GTA IV's game design.

 

 

Anyways, one thing that some people criticize GTA IV, but I actually love, is the radio (before the April 2018 neutering). I, for one, loved that R* utilized more underground music and "secondary hits" from popular artists instead of just copy-and-pasting 2008's Top 40 all over the game. People adored the soundtracks of GTA VC, GTA SA, and GTA VCS. Those games were able to make mainstream music work since all three of those took place many years before said games were even developed. Many of those tracks now have limited-to-no play on FM radio. If I'm playing a video game that takes place in modern times, the last thing I'd want to hear is the same music I already hear on FM radio multiple times on a daily basis.

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Miamivicecity

-Bike physics. I love doing the races with a bike.

 

-The use of dark colours to heighten the somber atmosphere.

 

- Lack of underwater diving as I don't care about partaking in underwater adventures.

 

 

 

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TheOriginalGunslinger
13 hours ago, Miamivicecity said:

-Bike physics. I love doing the races with a bike.

This. Love the bike physics as well!

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woggleman

The realism and the serious tone that people call not fun. I found it to be very fun but that is not what people seem to want in a game.

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Zolika1351

Driving physics - I never understood why people say it's unrealistic and boat-like, IV has the best car handling in the GTA series imo.

Lighting - I guess some people just like super realistic lighting but imo the dark and gritty color scheme fits the game. (except in multiplayer, but I think the CleanIV timecyc mod fits MP well)

Multiplayer - This is just backwards, people praise the grindy and buggy mess that is GTA Online while hating on the best MP in the series

Repetitive/forgettable missions - I don't get this one at all, I can remember almost every single mission along with the dialogue, while I can only remember a few select missions from SA and V.

Friends system - I love it when I'm freeroaming and a friend calls me, because I can learn about the characters' lore through the friend dialogues. It's not annoying at all and the time limit for picking them up is more than enough for me. I can just put the phone on sleep mode if I don't want to be bothered anyway.

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Miamivicecity
9 hours ago, Zolika1351 said:

Repetitive/forgettable missions - I don't get this one at all, I can remember almost every single mission along with the dialogue, while I can only remember a few select missions from SA and V.

 

Same. Funnily enough it's San Andreas and GTA V that have the most amount of missions that bore me to tears and just aren't very interesting. While I can understand that some people might not like GTA IV's missions I like them because they remain consistent with the narrative and Niko being a hired gun/hitman. Since GTA IV's shooting mechanics are so brilliant I don't mind the higher number of shootouts. Atleast it feels like a proper GTA game.

 

The latter get off too easily from criticism because some people assume "variety always = good". 

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Jeansowaty
14 hours ago, Miamivicecity said:

Since GTA IV's shooting mechanics are so brilliant I don't mind the higher number of shootouts. Atleast it feels like a proper GTA game.

Bah, I honestly wouldn't mind even more shoot-out filled missions. I guess Rockstar couldn't make IV longer due to EFLC being in works.

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TheOriginalGunslinger

Multiplayer.

 

I know it doesn’t have a lot to offer but IV Multiplayer was awesome in its hay days. The simplicity of it is what I enjoyed the most (even though most Free Modes were 99% of the time everyone always at or near the airport lol). I’ll always choose IV Multiplayer over GTA Online without a second thought any day though. Sure, GTA Online allows customization and a lot of things (a whole lot of other things) but IV still holds a special place. Don’t even get me started on Cops ‘n Crooks... Deathmatches/Team Deathmatches were better imo. No stupid looking “filter” when on a killstreak. Team Deathmatches in Bohan were intense with Assault Rifles only on.

Edited by TheOriginalGunslinger

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Zolika1351
4 minutes ago, TheOriginalGunslinger said:

Multiplayer.

 

I know it doesn’t have a lot to offer but IV Multiplayer was awesome in its hay days. The simplicity of it is what I enjoyed the most (even though most Free Modes were 99% of the time everyone always at or near the airport lol). I’ll always choose IV Multiplayer over GTA Online without a second thought any day though. Sure, GTA Online allows customization and a lot of things (a whole lot of other things) but IV still holds a special place. Don’t even get me started on Cops ‘n Crooks... Deathmatches/Team Deathmatches were better imo. No stupid looking “filter” when on a killstreak. Team Deathmatches in Bohan were intense with Assault Rifles only on.

imo the MP community is just going downhill now, it was much much better back in the day, now it's just freemodes, and even if you can find a gamemode, people don't know that weapons have range, they can't aim, they abuse blindfire and truck driveby, they kick you right after you join because they don't know what private slots are, and they call hacks after 1-2 deaths

I wish we could go back to the pre-patch 8 days, the community was much better back then

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Miamivicecity
17 hours ago, TheOriginalGunslinger said:

Multiplayer.

 

I know it doesn’t have a lot to offer but IV Multiplayer was awesome in its hay days. The simplicity of it is what I enjoyed the most (even though most Free Modes were 99% of the time everyone always at or near the airport lol). I’ll always choose IV Multiplayer over GTA Online without a second thought any day though. Sure, GTA Online allows customization and a lot of things (a whole lot of other things) but IV still holds a special place. Don’t even get me started on Cops ‘n Crooks... Deathmatches/Team Deathmatches were better imo. No stupid looking “filter” when on a killstreak. Team Deathmatches in Bohan were intense with Assault Rifles only on.

I loved GTA IV multiplayer because you could just jump straight into it and not have to worry about grinding and all of that sh*t to get better weapons or whatever. Its simplicity just worked beautifully like Red Dead Redemption's multiplayer. The current model seems geared towards raping player's wallets more than anything.

 

i was really looking forward to RDO, but tried it a couple of times and it just didn't hook me as it reminded me too much of GTAO. Another thing about GTA IV's multiplayer is it never felt like single player suffered because of its inclusion. Single player in GTA IV is very much the main attraction, but in GTA V it's the other way around as R* simply do not care one bit for its single player anymore and haven't for a long time.

 

But back to GTA IV's multiplayer. Yeah. Most deathmatches happened at the airport lol. Happiness Island was a popular choice too, but it was great fun. I remember after playing through GTA IV's story the first time I resisted the urge to play multiplayer until I was done, but it was worth the wait. Miss those days.

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TheOriginalGunslinger
4 hours ago, Miamivicecity said:

I loved GTA IV multiplayer because you could just jump straight into it and not have to worry about grinding and all of that sh*t to get better weapons or whatever. Its simplicity just worked beautifully like Red Dead Redemption's multiplayer. The current model seems geared towards raping player's wallets more than anything.

 

i was really looking forward to RDO, but tried it a couple of times and it just didn't hook me as it reminded me too much of GTAO. Another thing about GTA IV's multiplayer is it never felt like single player suffered because of its inclusion. Single player in GTA IV is very much the main attraction, but in GTA V it's the other way around as R* simply do not care one bit for its single player anymore and haven't for a long time.

 

But back to GTA IV's multiplayer. Yeah. Most deathmatches happened at the airport lol. Happiness Island was a popular choice too, but it was great fun. I remember after playing through GTA IV's story the first time I resisted the urge to play multiplayer until I was done, but it was worth the wait. Miss those days.

Charge Island was fun too sometimes. A lot of cover too.

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Miamivicecity

Something I think worth noting is Niko's "hypocrisy". For years I've struggled to find why anyone would consider it to be a bad thing when it's a driving force behind his character. It's no accident Darko is modelled to resemble Niko and even he calls Niko out for his hypocrisy.

 

The crazy thing is Niko knows he's no angel and what he does is wrong even if his morals conflict, but he never denies it. IMO Vic, Luis and Trevor come across as more unintentionally hypocritical.

 

-Vic doesn't want anything to do with drugs, but he builds a drug empire.

-Luis is constantly giving Armando and Henrique sh*t for their lifestyle, selling drugs on the corner, but has no problem turning his hand for drug dealing himself when there's cash to be made.

-Trevor whines that no one gives a f*ck about him, but he doesn't care about Ron, Wade, Floyd etc. Selfish bitch.

 

The difference though to me is the hypocrisy in those characters felt like a consequence of weak/lazy writing more than anything that was intended which makes things worse. With Niko R* wanted to make him more human and more believable than any other protagonists that came before and his quest for vengeance made him turn against his own morals. It emphasises how broken and tragic he's become. His "hypocrisy" really just makes things more interesting if you ask me.

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eCola

I really didn’t care about gyms being cut out, not just because I don’t want  to feel like I have a virtual pet, but also because Niko doesn’t really need one. He’s already in good shape, and his stamina is peak human from the get-go. I mean, this is the same guy who swam several miles in the Adriatic Sea after being in a shipwreck

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Miamivicecity
11 hours ago, eCola said:

I really didn’t care about gyms being cut out, not just because I don’t want  to feel like I have a virtual pet, but also because Niko doesn’t really need one. He’s already in good shape, and his stamina is peak human from the get-go. I mean, this is the same guy who swam several miles in the Adriatic Sea after being in a shipwreck

I never really understood the fascination with the gym either. It was tedious and as you say Niko didn't really need one anyway since he was already in prime shape in GTA IV.

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ThatKyloRenGuy
On 12/17/2018 at 3:41 AM, Miamivicecity said:

Something I think worth noting is Niko's "hypocrisy". For years I've struggled to find why anyone would consider it to be a bad thing when it's a driving force behind his character. It's no accident Darko is modelled to resemble Niko and even he calls Niko out for his hypocrisy.

 

The crazy thing is Niko knows he's no angel and what he does is wrong even if his morals conflict, but he never denies it. IMO Vic, Luis and Trevor come across as more unintentionally hypocritical.

 

-Vic doesn't want anything to do with drugs, but he builds a drug empire.

-Luis is constantly giving Armando and Henrique sh*t for their lifestyle, selling drugs on the corner, but has no problem turning his hand for drug dealing himself when there's cash to be made.

-Trevor whines that no one gives a f*ck about him, but he doesn't care about Ron, Wade, Floyd etc. Selfish bitch.

 

The difference though to me is the hypocrisy in those characters felt like a consequence of weak/lazy writing more than anything that was intended which makes things worse. With Niko R* wanted to make him more human and more believable than any other protagonists that came before and his quest for vengeance made him turn against his own morals. It emphasises how broken and tragic he's become. His "hypocrisy" really just makes things more interesting if you ask me.

Agreed completely! Niko is in deed a hypocrite, but at least he is ACKNOWLEDGES it! You are also correct about Vic, Trevor and Luis (even though I do really like the last one you mentioned). As much as I do like Michael from GTA V, he can be unintentionally hypocritical as well. For example, he mocked Natalia Zverovna's Russian accent and was saying "The woman was hysterical" in a sarcastic way, after he pulled down Martin Madrazo's house. That is one of the VERY few scenes involving Michael that actually DOES piss me off! I mean, considering how he acts in events before, during, and after, he really isn't one to talk. No character is perfect, as they say, and I also can't deny certain bad qualities of characters I like solely based on my personal opinions.

Edited by ThatKyloRenGuy

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Cheatz/Trickz

I think with Vic the empire thing was something he was reluctant to do but comes around to the idea because deep down he needs money for his other brother, and it becomes one of those things that he simply gets too deep into. I personally didn’t see the hypocrisy because Vic was very vocally against it, but he had his reasons and Lance was always there pushing the idea so he was being pulled in two directions; what was morally right for himself and the reality of what he must do for his family. 

 

Luis is different, he realises A and H are who they are so advises them on how to up their game, but of course he would rather they were not in the game at all. It comes down to money though, because Luis says he could use the extra cash so there’s always that ‘I don’t want to be doing this...but I can, and I can get paid’ mentality with him. 

 

Trevor is psychotic. There is very little in the way of logic when it comes to him but I think Rockstar may have taken advantage of this idea a bit too much and excused his behavior as ‘well, he’s a psychotic it’s not supposed to make sense’. Imo, Trevor acts like a complete pus*y some of the time, such as when Weston and Haines speak down to him and he does nothing. I realised then that Rockstar were not being true to the characters and were instead just making them act as required in order to fulfil a certain plot point. 

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iiCriminnaaL 49
2 minutes ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:

I think with Vic the empire thing was something he was reluctant to do but comes around to the idea because deep down he needs money for his other brother, and it becomes one of those things that he simply gets too deep into. I personally didn’t see the hypocrisy because Vic was very vocally against it, but he had his reasons and Lance was always there pushing the idea so he was being pulled in two directions; what was morally right for himself and the reality of what he must do for his family. 

I kinda agree about this. After all, he was looking forward to pay a treatment for his sick brother, Pete. Though, the necessary amount wasn't cleared out, and he might've been able to earn more than he needed anyway.

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