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AxA

RDR2 PC Discussion

Recommended Posts

Hayden_

I hope Rockstar choose to release it on Steam. Steam is gonna be where I buy it first. If it's not through Steam then Rockstar's website. Not Epic Games.

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RedIndianRobin
14 hours ago, Hayden_ said:

I hope Rockstar choose to release it on Steam. Steam is gonna be where I buy it first. If it's not through Steam then Rockstar's website. Not Epic Games.

For real, if they bring it to Epic, Rockstar can kiss my money goodbye. 

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Jason

> "console manufacturers are paying for RDR2 to be console exclusive"

 

> Microsoft are releasing all their first party games on PC day 1 and are investing heavily into PC gaming

 

You know, if you don't have a clue what yer talking about sometimes it's best not to talk at all.

 

Edited by Jason

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Uncle Sikee Atric
15 hours ago, Hayden_ said:

I hope Rockstar choose to release it on Steam. Steam is gonna be where I buy it first. If it's not through Steam then Rockstar's website. Not Epic Games.

 

44 minutes ago, RedIndianRobin said:

For real, if they bring it to Epic, Rockstar can kiss my money goodbye. 

 

What the hell is all this negative crap over the Epic Launcher?  Just because it's a bit of competition within the digital gaming industry, people get all hissy about it! 

 

Yeah it's another launcher and yeah, it's a bit weird there's direct competition to Steam, but Epic are shaking up the digital distribution market after Valve throttled the PC market for too long.  It's causing good things within the business, like uPlay offering the 20% discount for 100 coins (which has trickled onto the console download market too) and causing Valve to reassess their amounts of income per sale on Steam.  The Indie scene is looking rosy too as developers are attracted by better revenue offers (Epic could have a massive winner with Satisfactory being a timed exclusive).

 

I cannot stand the idea of playing Fortnite, so I don't.  But just because Epic made it big with that title, as Valve did with Half Life and HL2 from 97 onwards, people are getting upset about it.  The competition will be good and offer savings for end users in the long run, as the two platforms get to it in a head to head.

 

Enjoy the ride, you're going to be better off in the long run.

 

PS : You all have an extra launcher in WIndows, it's called XBox Live and no one complained when MS started selling games directly through the Windows Store.  There's savings there too because XBox console keys are interchangeable, allowing you to play the game on both console and PC at the same time.

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fdiuhywsu

There's a lot of negativity about the Epic Store because of their paid exclusivity BS, which is the exact opposite of healthy competition beneficial for everyone.

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Uncle Sikee Atric
13 minutes ago, fdiuhywsu said:

There's a lot of negativity about the Epic Store because of their paid exclusivity BS, which is the exact opposite of healthy competition beneficial for everyone.

Why is it unhealthy?  Just because it's a business model that's different, people hate it, after having no choice for so damn long.

 

Epic really are taking a gamble on every timed exclusive.  If a timed exclusive flops, they're going to lose, big!

 

I think they will change in the next few years to be less aggressive with timed exclusives and such.  But for now they're trying to get their name established, they have to do it somehow.

 

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fdiuhywsu
1 minute ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

Why is it unhealthy?  Just because it's a business model that's different, people hate it, after having no choice for so damn long.

 

Epic really are taking a gamble on every timed exclusive.  If a timed exclusive flops, they're going to lose, big!

How is paying large amounts of money to developers to remove their games from steam and putting them exclusively on your store healthy competition? You are just removing choice from the users that are now forced to use your extremely poor store both features and security wise if they want to play that particular game. If you want to compete with steam and other stores you have to offer more/better features and lower prices, what Epic is doing is not beneficial to anyone.

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Uncle Sikee Atric
2 minutes ago, fdiuhywsu said:

How is paying large amounts of money to developers to remove their games from steam and putting them exclusively on your store healthy competition? You are just removing choice from the users that are now forced to use your extremely poor store both features and security wise if they want to play that particular game. If you want to compete with steam and other stores you have to offer more/better features and lower prices, what Epic is doing is not beneficial to anyone.

 

So what happens if Steam start adopting the same idea, buying into timed exclusives?  That's competition.

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Jason

According to Epic, this is what monopoly and competition means:

 

wp047tkqxdd21.png

 

Yea, there's a reason people aren't keen on the Epic Store and it's bloody well justified.

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fdiuhywsu
6 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

So what happens if Steam start adopting the same idea, buying into timed exclusives?  That's competition.

It would still be unhealthy competition, even if Valve started doing the same thing. As I already said, there are zero advantages in removing the choice from the user.

Edited by fdiuhywsu

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MostWantedMVP
16 hours ago, Hayden_ said:

I hope Rockstar choose to release it on Steam. Steam is gonna be where I buy it first. If it's not through Steam then Rockstar's website. Not Epic Games.

Steam has been the home of Rockstar PC Games for years. They have no reason to use Epic Games Store.

Edited by MostWantedMVP

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Jimbatron

It would be good to have a choice of different stores to get it from but at the risk of stating the obvious it’s a secondary concern to simply getting on the PC at all.

 

If GTA V is anything to go by it will be on Steam, the R* and physical. I’d expect those options to remain. Don’t know much about epic but as long as there is choice it doesn’t matter to me if it’s on that or not. More options may mean better deals though.

 

It seems hugely unlikely to me R* would go exclusive with one third party store on the PC.

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Fun 2
2 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

What the hell is all this negative crap over the Epic Launcher?  Just because it's a bit of competition within the digital gaming industry, people get all hissy about it! 

The problem is that Epic is using Fortnite's money to have some titles exclusive to their launcher.

Their launcher isn't competitive at all. It's lacking A LOT of features and people would have to wait months or maybe years just to see those features added to their launcher.

Edited by Fun 2

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Fun 2
On 3/14/2019 at 9:12 AM, RedIndianRobin said:

I wonder who calls the shots to evidently delay the PC version. Strauss Zelnick or Sam/Dan? 

It's Mr.Bugstar, he owns the bug tracking company and if there's a bug on the loose, he's gonna delay everything and track that bug down

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Ash_735
33 minutes ago, DKT70 said:

and the review bombing of GTA V - back when Rockstar wanted to stop mods. Seriously, sometimes PC gamers only have themselves to blame.

To be fair on this point, there's a HUGE difference between "I don't like this game store" and "I DON'T SUPPORT TAKE-2 TRYING TO MAKE MODDING ILLEGAL AND THREATENING AND BULLYING THOSE WHO DO". The hatred GTAV got was deserved, some of those people involved are still paying off court debts just because they f*cking modded a game or got access to files Rockstar were too lazy to wipe properly.

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Jason

If your argument boils down to "PC gamers can only blame them selves" then don't post. It's not true or constructive and will only lead to your post getting removed.

 

Seriously, it's that line of thinking that led to PC gaming being a sh*t show in the mid to late 2000's, publishers just figured PC gamers all pirate and that's why they don't buy their games. Then a few publishers actually released decent PC versions that were worth paying for and low and behold, here we are in 2019 and PC gaming is thriving.

 

Also for those who don't know the situation regarding the Epic Store: the bad rep surrounding the Epic Store has little to do with the client its self, though it's severe lack of features and customer support is a genuine concern that Epic are hand-waiving away like they're not important (lol?). The main criticisms surrounding it is the fact it's pro-publisher and anti-consumer. Games that were available on dozens and dozens of stores now being available on one. Steam has been the sole platform for many a year now but regardless if it's Steam exclusive or not, games had many places where you could buy them from and those sides competed with each other leading to great sales, price drops, pre-order discounts etc.

 

With Epic Store exclusives only being on Epic's store there's literally none of that, at all. It's anti-consumer, which shouldn't be a surprise as Tencent own 40% of Epic these days.

Edited by Jason

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DKT70
13 minutes ago, Jason said:

If your argument boils down to "PC gamers can only blame them selves" then don't post. It's not true or constructive and will only lead to your post getting removed.

 

Seriously, it's that line of thinking that led to PC gaming being a sh*t show in the mid to late 2000's, publishers just figured PC gamers all pirate and that's why they don't buy their games. Then a few publishers actually released decent PC versions that were worth paying for and low and behold, here we are in 2019 and PC gaming is thriving.

 

Also for those who don't know the situation regarding the Epic Store: the bad rep surrounding the Epic Store has little to do with the client its self, though it's severe lack of features and customer support is a genuine concern that Epic are hand-waiving away like they're not important (lol?). The main criticisms surrounding it is the fact it's pro-publisher and anti-consumer. Games that were available on dozens and dozens of stores now being available on one. Steam has been the sole platform for many a year now but regardless if it's Steam exclusive or not, games had many places where you could buy them from and those sides competed with each other leading to great sales, price drops, pre-order discounts etc.

 

With Epic Store exclusives only being on Epic's store there's literally none of that, at all. It's anti-consumer, which shouldn't be a surprise as Tencent own 40% of Epic these days.

 

All I see is a lot of self-entitlement. And, also a lot of censoring when it comes to posting facts, rather than hyperbole - nice going mods, really shows where you sit when it comes to free speech.

Most of the quoted post is just regurgitated clap trap, and paranoia. I mean, yes, Epic are part-owned by Tencent, but so what ? Steam, are a U.S. pro-capitalist company - do they offshore their profits ?

Epic's launcher is a few months old, Steam is what, 15 years (?) old. Go back to 2004 and see how bad Steam was back then. Back when you are forced to use it just to play Half-life 2.

 

20 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

To be fair on this point, there's a HUGE difference between "I don't like this game store" and "I DON'T SUPPORT TAKE-2 TRYING TO MAKE MODDING ILLEGAL AND THREATENING AND BULLYING THOSE WHO DO". The hatred GTAV got was deserved, some of those people involved are still paying off court debts just because they f*cking modded a game or got access to files Rockstar were too lazy to wipe properly.

 

Look, I mod Rockstar's games, mostly GTA IV. But I have no legal right to modify their IP, and I know I'm not doing something that is entirely legal. We've all had it good for a long time, but there may come a time when it all ends and we can no longer mod games. Especially if games start to sandbox themselves off similar to UWP games, then it's curtains. Don't blame Rockstar for using the law, blame the laws made that restrict what we can do and own.

Is a mod going to remove this, now ?

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Jason

Once again completely missing the major point of discussion about the Epic launcher lmao.

 

There's multiple store platforms on PC, Origin, uPlay, GoG, Steam, Battle.net, it's a little cumbersome generally but people have grown used to it. EA games are only on Origin which sucks, but it's only EA's stuff plus you can buy them on a wide variety of stores. Ubisoft games are now seemingly all going to be on Epic Launcher and uPlay which isn't the end of the world (it's not great) but it's made even worse by the fact because of the deal Ubisoft are pulling The Division 2 from all PC stores other than uPlay Epic - which is basically what I've been talking about above with the whole anti-consumer, anti-competition malarkey.

 

But for the most part, it's okay, because regardless of what game you buy or if they're exclusive to one of these PC platforms there's always a good variety of places you can buy the key from.

 

This is not the case with Epic Store exclusives.

 

This is one of the big reasons why there's such a hoo-ha about it. There's also stuff like the Metro Exodus situation, where the publisher and Epic pulled the rug out from everyone who planned to buy the game on Steam but hadn't put the pre-order in yet. The lack of features and that whole spying thing (which from what I saw seems a bit blown out of proportion) are just more fuel to the fire, but they're only a small part of the issue.

Edited by Jason

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Ash_735
1 hour ago, DKT70 said:

Look, I mod Rockstar's games, mostly GTA IV. But I have no legal right to modify their IP, and I know I'm not doing something that is entirely legal. We've all had it good for a long time, but there may come a time when it all ends and we can no longer mod games. Especially if games start to sandbox themselves off similar to UWP games, then it's curtains. Don't blame Rockstar for using the law, blame the laws made that restrict what we can do and own.

And as a talented modder, this is a very defeatist attitude to take, surely over your years of modding you've seen how it benefits communities, especially when it gets embraced by developers, many games were preserved better thanks to mods, some even taken on board from mods to be repackaged into official releases, etc. The ONLY major area is of course online cheating, but that's that, CHEATING. I WILL blame Rockstar in this case as they and Take-2 are the only ones who go this harsh and resort to near mafia tactics with their threats, no other developer does that, even Nintendo who are usually hard with their IP's and fan games, even they don't resort to using PI firms to track people down and threaten them.

 

Rockstar Games have TERRIBLE Legacy support, so it's double stupid that they go so hard and aggressive these days in hating the modding community. May I remind you that thanks to the review bombs it allowed gaming websites to pick up on the OpenIV story which FORCED Rockstar and Take-2 to do a u-turn on their actions. I'm not saying all review bombs are justified, that'd be insane, but in this one specific case, we fought back, and won our consumer rights back in this instance whilst at the same time dealing with people such as yourself trying to be sarcastic and belittling "Why even bother, just give up, it's their IP, we can't change anything".

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DKT70
1 hour ago, Jason said:

Once again completely missing the major point of discussion about the Epic launcher lmao.

 

There's multiple store platforms on PC, Origin, uPlay, GoG, Steam, Battle.net, it's a little cumbersome generally but people have grown used to it. EA games are only on Origin which sucks, but it's only EA's stuff plus you can buy them on a wide variety of stores. Ubisoft games are now seemingly all going to be on Epic Launcher and uPlay which isn't the end of the world (it's not great) but it's made even worse by the fact because of the deal Ubisoft are pulling The Division 2 from all PC stores other than uPlay Epic - which is basically what I've been talking about above with the whole anti-consumer, anti-competition malarkey.

 

But for the most part, it's okay, because regardless of what game you buy or if they're exclusive to one of these PC platforms there's always a good variety of places you can buy the key from.

 

This is not the case with Epic Store exclusives.

 

This is one of the big reasons why there's such a hoo-ha about it. There's also stuff like the Metro Exodus situation, where the publisher and Epic pulled the rug out from everyone who planned to buy the game on Steam but hadn't put the pre-order in yet. The lack of features and that whole spying thing (which from what I saw seems a bit blown out of proportion) are just more fuel to the fire, but they're only a small part of the issue.

I still don't see a problem. Would you rather these games NOT come to PC ?

I, mean, you have to run another launcher, so what ? What is so hard or annoying about that ?

ALL my games from the Epic store, run without the Epic launcher running, can you do that with all the other launchers ?

Most of the crap I read from posters is not from their own personal experience, it's from simply reading posts on reddit, or Steam's forums. Run the damn launcher yourself, then see for yourself. Don't read, or believe the hysteria whipped up by Steam fanboys.

 

28 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

And as a talented modder, this is a very defeatist attitude to take, surely over your years of modding you've seen how it benefits communities, especially when it gets embraced by developers, many games were preserved better thanks to mods, some even taken on board from mods to be repackaged into official releases, etc. The ONLY major area is of course online cheating, but that's that, CHEATING. I WILL blame Rockstar in this case as they and Take-2 are the only ones who go this harsh and resort to near mafia tactics with their threats, no other developer does that, even Nintendo who are usually hard with their IP's and fan games, even they don't resort to using PI firms to track people down and threaten them.

 

Look, I agree. Modding has been wonderful, and often enjoyable. But the threats, and review bombing aimed at Rockstar was way way off the mark, and quite frankly embarrassing. Rockstar, have zero incentive to bring anything to the PC, especially when RDR2 sales on consoles are in the millions - PS4 alone is over 13 million sales in just 5 months - it took 5 years for PC GTA V to reach just 9 million. I would love RDR2, 4k 60fps on PC, but I'm not holding by breath waiting, because it just might not come to the PC. Rockstar, might not want RDR2 pulled completely apart by OpenIV and modders. I love modding, but sometimes it feels a bit wrong being able to completely rip open a game - where the IP doesn't belong to me. Imagine if YOU worked on a game for 5 years, only to see it's entire model, textures, shaders, scripts, etc.. all open and available to anyone to do what they want with - I can at least see it from this perspective. Although, I won't lie, I would love to mod RDR2, given the limited time I have.

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fdiuhywsu
16 minutes ago, DKT70 said:

it took 5 years for PC GTA V to reach just 9 million

??

As of almost a year ago GTA V PC sold 13 million copies only on steam (so not counting all physical copies and all copies sold outside of steam).

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Jason
24 minutes ago, DKT70 said:

I still don't see a problem. Would you rather these games NOT come to PC ?

I, mean, you have to run another launcher, so what ? What is so hard or annoying about that ?

ALL my games from the Epic store, run without the Epic launcher running, can you do that with all the other launchers ?

Most of the crap I read from posters is not from their own personal experience, it's from simply reading posts on reddit, or Steam's forums. Run the damn launcher yourself, then see for yourself. Don't read, or believe the hysteria whipped up by Steam fanboys.

Again, it's not about the launcher it's self, not for me anyway. I've got a PS4, Switch, PC with Steam, Origin, uPlay and Battle.net. I don't really have an issue with multiple platforms personally, though I know some people do.

 

The issue for me is that the only place to buy these games is the Epic Store. Let me give an example of what I mean.

 

Say I want to buy Devil May Cry 5 on PC, it came out only a week or two ago. As far as I can tell regardless of where I buy this game you will redeem the game through Steam, so for all intents and purposes it's a Steam exclusive game. Ideally that shouldn't be the case (I have problems with the hypocrisy regarding Steam exclusives being fine and Epic exclusives being not fine, but that's another discussion) but whatever, we'll roll with it.

 

So, DMC5 if I were to buy it on Steam, the platform it's exclusive to, is £45 in the UK. But like most people I wanna see if I can get it cheaper so I check some other stores and I can find it for £35 on GMG. There's also multiple other places I could buy it from for around the same price. That, to me, is competition. GMG and those other sites are selling this still brand new game for £10 off the Steam price because otherwise people would just buy it on Steam. That's competition.

 

Now lets say I wanted to buy Metro Exodus on PC. This game came out around this time last month, so still a pretty new game. However, as this game is completely exclusive to the Epic Games Store I have only one place to buy it and thus only one pricing option available to me, which is £50. That's £5 more expensive than the newer DMC5 on Steam and £15 more expensive than Steam's competition is selling it for.

 

That's the problem with the Epic Games Store. It limits player choice and it removes competition.

 

It's not like these games simply wouldn't come to PC anyway, as far as I know every game Epic has paid to be exclusive to it's store is a game that has had no trouble being self funded.

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Ash_735
37 minutes ago, DKT70 said:

Rockstar, might not want RDR2 pulled completely apart by OpenIV and modders. I love modding, but sometimes it feels a bit wrong being able to completely rip open a game - where the IP doesn't belong to me. Imagine if YOU worked on a game for 5 years, only to see it's entire model, textures, shaders, scripts, etc.. all open and available to anyone to do what they want with - I can at least see it from this perspective. 

Just to isolate this part right here, and this goes for all of you coming up with wild theories that "console makers" are paying to keep this game off PC, etc. Have we ever just stopped to think that Rockstar Games are a terrible company? They make GREAT games, no doubting that, but as a company overall their tactics and methods are very outdated and very late PS2/early PS3-360. We have a company who in this day and age STILL doesn't release their titles on PC at the same time/near the same time window, this is something nearly every dev/publisher has managed to correct, even Japanese developers. We're in an era where developers can be open, we have soundtrack releases across streaming networks and platforms, non-limited physical copies, etc, and yet here we are with Rockstar Games trying to hype up a "rare release" of their soundtrack for RDR2 as if it's some big event. Same goes for the art book.

 

You ask me what would I think if I worked on a game and then saw people having access to the assets? I'd be happy, I've already been paid and I'd sure as hell want to see how creative people can be with those assets, look at other developers and how they've embraced this aspect of the community, and still managed to keep it separate from basic Single Player and Multiplayer. You want to mod the game? Here's the tools, here's a mod section where you can test your sh*t, etc. Look at how many games out there have level builders, etc, look at how it prolongs the life of these games, keeps a community active. Yet Rockstar Games cling to the old ways, want to restrict access, with Take-2 acting on their behalf trying to make it outright ILLEGAL to modify their games.

 

Rockstar Games had a style, had a unique feeling, they were seen as the rebels of the gaming industry back in the day and yet now they're the most pro-active in locking things down and keeping things closed off. They're a company who are that big that they don't want to move on from old outdated stubborn values. I've spoke with developers, I've worked on projects in graphic design/non-gaming related, as long as these people get their due and their money, sh*t, I'm always happy to see how my work can be spun/twisted, it gives me another perspective on things and at times even makes me go "OH, I totally didn't see that before, but that works, nice".

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DKT70

Ash, I would 100% agree with you IF Rockstar had, themselves, provided the modding tools. But they didn't, and lets be honest here, the law is on THEIR side, NOT ours - as much as I hate to admit it. They can, if they so be, shut down any modding attempts on their own games, and we can only vote with our wallets, we cannot fight it in a court of law because we are essentially breaking it. I hate copyright laws, IP laws, trademark laws. All of them are written by people in power with lots of money, and lots to gain. All of them are artificial laws written only to protect those with the power and money - they're a long way from their original intent of limited protection for creators.

 

All I'm doing is seeing it from their side, and they have previously shown that they aren't too happy with modding. So, it could also be a possible reason why they might not bring RDR2 to PC. They can't blame piracy, anymore, because we as PC owners now have many many ways of getting our content that there is no reason to pirate. Although, they could be looking at 4a games' Metro Exodus and the hate-filled reviews they're getting, and the threats of pirating the game just because of the Epic exclusive. 4a games have hinted at making Exodus the last Metro game on PC, although they back-tracked a little on that post.

So, lets hope they do bring RDR2 to PC. But if they don't, lets also hope most either move on, or buy it on console. Because, if the same happens again with multiple review bombs on Steam, then that could spell the end for any Rockstar game reaching PC.

 

Jason, the Metro exclusive is only for 1 year. After that, you can buy it on whatever platform it will go to. You can also buy the Xbox or PS4 version, so its not like it's super-exclusive to PC only. Steam, have had, and still do, have exclusives. I would imagine a Half-life 3 release would only be available on Steam. I bet many won't complain about that, at any price. Also, £49 is becoming the norm for all AAA games. Even more, if you want the "Deluxe" edition, or the super GTI turbo deluxe gold platinum edition.

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Xerukal

Interesting. Google image search doesn't return any results other than "Sea cave", so it's probably not from somewhere else. Those textures look f*cking bonkers though. 

 

inb4 Rockstar sends this guy to a black site never to be heard from again.

Edited by Xerukal

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Jason
2 minutes ago, DKT70 said:

Jason, the Metro exclusive is only for 1 year. After that, you can buy it on whatever platform it will go to. You can also buy the Xbox or PS4 version, so its not like it's super-exclusive to PC only.

Timed exclusives are just as sh*tty and no, if I want to play it on PC I want to play it on PC. Some people don't even have the choice if they don't own a console. 

 

3 minutes ago, DKT70 said:

Steam, have had, and still do, have exclusives. I would imagine a Half-life 3 release would only be available on Steam. I bet many won't complain about that, at any price.

This is very true and what I was talking about when I don't like the hypocrisy surrounding the Epic Store having exclusives but no one batting an eyelid when it's a Steam exclusive. That said, I don't recall any Steam exclusive other  than Valve's own games where you can't purchase a key on other stores (like DMC5). Metro Exodus is not an Epic game but it's completely exclusive to the store.

 

5 minutes ago, DKT70 said:

Also, £49 is becoming the norm for all AAA games. Even more, if you want the "Deluxe" edition, or the super GTI turbo deluxe gold platinum edition.

I haven't paid £49.99 for anything on PC because the games I buy games are all available on multiple stores, so there's competition and thus cheaper prices and things like pre-order discounts. The last AAA game I bought day 1 on PC was Monster Hunter World on GMG, it cost me £38. I purchased Assassins Odyssey around 3 months after release for £20.

 

You can't really get around the fact that no matter what way you look at it, Metro Exodus, available on 1 store, is £50 where as DMC5, available on multiple stores, is £35. That right there sums it up.

 

6 minutes ago, kabbee said:

Someone on Reddit posted these photos from a thread in 4chan. Could it be anything? 

Looking at the screens on the reddit thread, doesn't look like anything RDR2 related to me.

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kabbee

It could very well be fake, im not familar with those texture so i cant really tell. 

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