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AxA

RDR2 PC Discussion

Recommended Posts

Piro
On 10/17/2018 at 11:41 AM, R* lover said:

I mean, if this is true, i see it

Well if the engine in RDR2 is the same, just upgraded (or very very similar to rdr) then that could happen. You just replace old textures and props with HD versions from rdr2.
They could release something like that as a paid expansion (just before RDR2 drops on PC)

and speaking of...  

Anyone remembers those rumors about gtaO map expansion? Some designer posted pictures on his portfolio with upgraded map from GTA4? Well maybe R* tried to do the same thing with gtao but they failed? Maybe they experimented with gta but it was too messy to convert?
Just a theory based on two unconfirmed leaks.

Edited by Piro

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gtamatics
On 10/17/2018 at 12:29 PM, Piro said:

Yeah piracy is not the problem. PC marked is huge, bigger then all consoles combined. But they always delay PC releases for couple of reasons.
- They get payed for that. Console exclusivity increases console sales
- Releasing at the same time would lower console sales significantly ("If I have both why would I buy it on console as well?") 
- Closed systems vs open systems. Every console is the same but optimizing games for different rigs takes time
- Its easier to monetize console players
- People will buy it 2-3x just like they did with gta V

And an important point is that Rockstar can sell the game on consoles at full price. PS4: 70 Euro (in Germany) are normal. A PC game costs about 30 to 40 euros or less after a few weeks.

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The Algerian
12 minutes ago, gtamatics said:

And an important point is that Rockstar can sell the game on consoles at full price. PS4: 70 Euro (in Germany) are normal. A PC game costs about 30 to 40 euros or less after a few weeks.

 

What you don't realize is, for the same price, they make a lot more money on a copy sold on PC than one sold on consoles.

Consoles copies have costs PC copies don't.

 

They have to give a cut Sony/Microsoft, for one, for the right to use their hardware. Then they have to buy and print the discs, the discs cases, they have to pay the shipping, the distribution and maybe other stuff I forgot. After all of this, on a 60-70$ physical copy sold on PS4/XboxOne, they get maybe 10 bucks.

 

And even if they sell it digitally on consoles, the real reason it's 70 bucks is because Sony takes even more money than they do with physical.

 

On PC, though, if they sell it on Steam, they give them 30%, and that's it. If they sell it through their own store, they pocket all of it.

Even with the Steam cut, they get 4x more money than with a physical sale on consoles.

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Ash_735
2 hours ago, The Algerian said:

 

What you don't realize is, for the same price, they make a lot more money on a copy sold on PC than one sold on consoles.

Consoles copies have costs PC copies don't.

 

They have to give a cut Sony/Microsoft, for one, for the right to use their hardware. Then they have to buy and print the discs, the discs cases, they have to pay the shipping, the distribution and maybe other stuff I forgot. After all of this, on a 60-70$ physical copy sold on PS4/XboxOne, they get maybe 10 bucks.

 

And even if they sell it digitally on consoles, the real reason it's 70 bucks is because Sony takes even more money than they do with physical.

 

On PC, though, if they sell it on Steam, they give them 30%, and that's it. If they sell it through their own store, they pocket all of it.

Even with the Steam cut, they get 4x more money than with a physical sale on consoles.

Citation needed on some of that, it's 30% cut across ALL platforms (Sony/Microsoft/Steam) that's why on PC you get them pushing for their own services (UPlay/EA/Social Club). As for the price of the game, the excuse WAS that console stores had to keep it in line with physical stores as PC wasn't that damaging to them, however in recent years just look at Steam, that old "Games are cheaper on PC" thing is getting further away with each game as their hitting Steam at the SAME PRICE as they are on consoles. Just look at GTAV, it only dropped in the last few MONTHS, before that it was full price for years and barely went 30% in sales. 😛

 

Cost to develop on Hardware is a laughable point because yes they pay for a devkit licence but that will last them the whole console generation (though in Rockstar's case, feels like a wasted gen ;)) but when they develop on PC they HAVE to pay for hardware too, do you just think Intel and Nvidia/AMD just hand them the latest hardware for fun? They might get a few samples, but certainly not enough to kit out an entire studio, let alone the multiple ones Rockstar have.

 

The ONLY real extra money from consoles comes in the form of submissions for verification and patch submissions as they have to go through their system (unlike on PC/Steam where they can push whatever and whenever they want).

 

Physical yeah that's a little different, but that's the same on PC too, just because physical is rare on PC these days doesn't mean production of said physical copies is free on PC ;)

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The Algerian
10 hours ago, Ash_735 said:

 

Physical yeah that's a little different, but that's the same on PC too, just because physical is rare on PC these days doesn't mean production of said physical copies is free on PC ;)

Who's seriously going to make as many physical copies for a platform that barely uses them anymore as for platforms that still probably represent well over 50% of sales, though?

In the 3 and a half years GTAV's been out on PC, I haven't seen even one physical copy of it in any store.

 

10 hours ago, Ash_735 said:

but when they develop on PC they HAVE to pay for hardware too, do you just think Intel and Nvidia/AMD just hand them the latest hardware for fun? They might get a few samples, but certainly not enough to kit out an entire studio, let alone the multiple ones Rockstar have.

 

How exactly do you think Nvidia/amd figure out how much money they're owed, then? Do they have a way of keeping track which copy has been sold to be played on which hardware?

 

What do you mean "for fun"? They're in the business of selling GPUs, aren't they? You think it benefits game companies in any way other than what Nvidia/AMD offer for the partnership when they alienate the owners of the other brand by making exclusive graphical options?

 

And I wasn't even talking about devkit, anyway, I'm talking about the patent-related royalties they have to pay, this represents like 7-10 bucks or so, per copy sold.

 

All in all, the publisher makes just as much money per physical copy sold as the store that sells them.

Edited by The Algerian

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Madvillain

a lot of money to be made with physical copies other people get paid in different ways.

 

 

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rollschuh2282

what are your thoughts guys, will R`push forward on PC with there Warehouse version and stop releasing the games on steam, or will they continue in the future with steam releases?

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CharmingCharlie
5 hours ago, Ash_735 said:

The ONLY real extra money from consoles comes in the form of submissions for verification and patch submissions as they have to go through their system (unlike on PC/Steam where they can push whatever and whenever they want).

Yeah that is not the "ONLY" extra cost that comes with the console version.  You seem to have forgotten the Console License Fee which can be up to $10 a copy (why do you think MS and Sony sell their consoles at practically a loss ?).   This license fee is ON TOP of all the other fees like the 30% retail cut and costs for manufacturing the discs.  Now it is possible a company like Rockstar can negotiate a reduction in the license fee but there will still be one.  

 

Traditionally PC games have always been released at least 10 bucks cheaper than their console versions simply because there is no license fee on the PC.  But then publishers decided "hey why are we doing this when we can pocket the extra 10 bucks ourselves".  It is an indisputable fact that a company will make more money from a PC copy of the game than they will from a console copy of the game.

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LunaStrky :3
8 hours ago, Ash_735 said:

That old "Games are cheaper on PC" thing is getting further away with each game as their hitting Steam at the SAME PRICE as they are on consoles. Just look at GTAV, it only dropped in the last few MONTHS, before that it was full price for years and barely went 30% in sales. 😛

Yeah, I bought AC Oddysey at 60 bucks. I haven't paid that much for a game since Watch Dogs (The last game I bought for the XB 360)

 

3 hours ago, rollschuh2282 said:

what are your thoughts guys, will R`push forward on PC with there Warehouse version and stop releasing the games on steam, or will they continue in the future with steam releases?

I hope that they still use steam, I don't like to install each game dev's client, I have Origin, Uplay, Epic Launcher, Battle.net, windows store, I preffer to keep using Steam.

 

2 hours ago, CharmingCharlie said:

It is an indisputable fact that a company will make more money from a PC copy of the game than they will from a console copy of the game.

And still, R* doesn't considered launch RDR 2 for PC on day one. I know that they try to sell the most copies they can, first on consoles and then on PC, I mean it's reasonable, even I bought GTA V 3 times ._.' But come on :/

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SakoCS

Real question is will we see equally big bump in graphics like we saw in GTA.

Maybe some RTX magic at least.

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Ash_735
11 hours ago, The Algerian said:

How exactly do you think Nvidia/amd figure out how much money they're owed, then? Do they have a way of keeping track which copy has been sold to be played on which hardware?

How exactly do you think they build these games? They use computers, they do that investment up front, and if Nvidia bring out new GPU's then the developers have to front the cost to get some of those to test too, they don't earn money per sale as they do with consoles, but Nvidia/Intel/AMD make sales on the bulk they sell upfront to even allow people to develop for the platform, especially if they want them to take advantage of PC specific features otherwise it'd just be called a sh*t port and protested online with people promoting piracy "If they can't give us a good port that runs at Ultrawide 144Hz, then they don't deserve our money!".

 

The licence fee is a small gateway to have access to a platform where majority of sales take place. Just look at other titles where they DO release on PC and consoles at the same time, console sales of a game are always much higher. Remember back in 2012/2013 when certain people were saying consoles are dying, everyone will jump to PC gaming, etc? Well here we are in 2018 and consoles are still selling extremely well and have a very large userbase more likely to be tempted to want to buy a game.

 

Don't take it as a put down, I mainly game on PC these days, but let's not feed into that Master Race crap either that IF developers only made games for PC then they'd be better off, etc.

 

7 hours ago, CharmingCharlie said:

Yeah that is not the "ONLY" extra cost that comes with the console version.  You seem to have forgotten the Console License Fee which can be up to $10 a copy (why do you think MS and Sony sell their consoles at practically a loss ?).   This license fee is ON TOP of all the other fees like the 30% retail cut and costs for manufacturing the discs.  Now it is possible a company like Rockstar can negotiate a reduction in the license fee but there will still be one.  

 

Traditionally PC games have always been released at least 10 bucks cheaper than their console versions simply because there is no license fee on the PC.  But then publishers decided "hey why are we doing this when we can pocket the extra 10 bucks ourselves".  It is an indisputable fact that a company will make more money from a PC copy of the game than they will from a console copy of the game.

Holy sh*t CharmingCharlie! I remember you, you used to be full on Master Race gabeN back in the day, how are you doing these days? Surprised to see you back here.

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Xerukal

I mean, I don't see either of them putting forward any "Master Race" crap in their replies. We don't all live off of dead ZP memes. 

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The Algerian
Just now, Xerukal said:

I mean, I don't see either of them putting forward any "Master Race" crap in their replies. We don't all live off of dead ZP memes. 

Yeah, this is why I didn't want to bother too much. He's usually a chill dude but there's no point discussing this with him, he's so obsessed with "PC Master race" that he sees them everywhere at the mere mention of console/PC differences.

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fdiuhywsu
53 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

Just look at other titles where they DO release on PC and consoles at the same time, console sales of a game are always much higher.

Can you post a source on that? While I agree that in this generation ps4 game sales are generally higher than on PC I really doubt the same is true for the Xboxone.

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pariah87
On 10/18/2018 at 4:08 AM, Piro said:

Well if the engine in RDR2 is the same, just upgraded (or very very similar to rdr) then that could happen. You just replace old textures and props with HD versions from rdr2.
They could release something like that as a paid expansion (just before RDR2 drops on PC)

and speaking of...  

Anyone remembers those rumors about gtaO map expansion? Some designer posted pictures on his portfolio with upgraded map from GTA4? Well maybe R* tried to do the same thing with gtao but they failed? Maybe they experimented with gta but it was too messy to convert?
Just a theory based on two unconfirmed leaks.

It was also kind of hinted at in the Trailer as well. 

 

They did add to the map too just not heavily

Edited by pariah87

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Ash_735

 

3 hours ago, The Algerian said:

Yeah, this is why I didn't want to bother too much. He's usually a chill dude but there's no point discussing this with him, he's so obsessed with "PC Master race" that he sees them everywhere at the mere mention of console/PC differences.

It's mainly because when I tell off the console fans with facts your types don't see an issue with that, but when I do the same to yous it becomes an issue and suddenly I'm a console fanboy.

 

2 hours ago, fdiuhywsu said:

Can you post a source on that? While I agree that in this generation ps4 game sales are generally higher than on PC I really doubt the same is true for the Xboxone.

It's still a split in favour of consoles, yeah PC sales are better now but as you said, PS4 is far ahead in terms of sales, platform games tend to do better on the Switch and often PC is ahead of Xbox One at least. That's still 1 to 2 console platforms having better sales than PC compared to PC beating 1 console platform.

Edited by Spider-Vice

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The Algerian
1 hour ago, Ash_735 said:

It's mainly because when I tell off the console fans with facts your types don't see an issue with that, but when I do the same to yous it becomes an issue and suddenly I'm a console fanboy.

First of, I see no reason to have an issue when you are indeed using facts. And no reason not to see an issue when you're obviously taking out of your behind, like that "devs pay Nvidia/AMD" stuff, to only choose the most obvious one.

 

And errr... aren't you're the one who accused me with no solid basis of "feeding into that Master Race crap that if developpers only made PC games they'd be better off"? And now aren't you talking about my "type" still?


If you were trying to prove me wrong that you're so obsessed with it that you see PC MASTER RACE everywhere, I don't think it's going your way.

 

"if developpers only made PC games they'd be better off""

Not only have I never said, or implied, or even thought that, but the facts I've been talking about (and whether or not you like them, they remain facts) I've learned from a video that never even mentionned PC.

 

That being said, as I said, I have no interest in pursuing this discussion with you, so let's just agree to disagree.

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Spider-Vice

Can we please stop with the childish bickering? Take it to PM or GTFO. Both of you.

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Ash_735
1 hour ago, CharmingCharlie said:

That is clearly a falsehood because that is NOT the only cost you kinda forgot to mention the 16% console license fee as well.

That I'll admit then, but the point still stands that there's still more profit made overall from console version sales than just PC. The idea I was arguing against was that it's all easy and doesn't cost money to develop for PC, which is a lie. I actually agree with you on other things, especially the recent trend of increasing the price of PC copies and holding them at a higher price for YEARS as opposed to the months it used to be (remember when Steam sales were good).

 

 

57 minutes ago, The Algerian said:

And no reason not to see an issue when you're obviously taking out of your behind, like that "devs pay Nvidia/AMD" stuff,

So what, do you think they get all that hardware for free? Can anyone just walk up to Nvidia/Intel/AMD and be like "Hey, I want to develop games on PC and my studio needs about 500 GPUs/CPUs, care to hook me up?". It's a still an upfront cost with money going to Nvidia/Intel/AMD in the end. I'll hold my hands up at forgetting the licence cost but still pushing that it's all flowers and butterflies to make games on PC and wondering why everyone doesn't ditch consoles is naive.

 

57 minutes ago, The Algerian said:

That being said, as I said, I have no interest in pursuing this discussion with you, so let's just agree to disagree.

That's fine with me.

 

edit: Didn't see @Spider-Vice's post until I already posted, it's cool, though I did like hearing CharmingCharlies side of the events with the Staff thing.

Edited by Spider-Vice

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gtamatics

Why should there be such high licenses for the PS4 when Sony and Rockstar Games have an exclusive deal? That does not make sense. So does Rockstar Games pay a lot of money to Sony to release the game for Sony with exclusive content?

Not everyone can go to Nvidia / AMD / Intel and ask for hardware. Rockstar Games is not a 0815 studio. I do not know if they get hardware for developing new games. But I think if they pay something, they do not pay per copy but flat rate.

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fdiuhywsu
3 hours ago, Ash_735 said:

It's still a split in favour of consoles, yeah PC sales are better now but as you said, PS4 is far ahead in terms of sales, platform games tend to do better on the Switch and often PC is ahead of Xbox One at least. That's still 1 to 2 console platforms having better sales than PC compared to PC beating 1 console platform.

Yes, that's what I was saying, PC is not the No.1 in terms of sales but it's still an important platform, and increasingly so.

 

1 hour ago, Ash_735 said:

especially the recent trend of increasing the price of PC copies and holding them at a higher price for YEARS as opposed to the months it used to be (remember when Steam sales were good).

 

I too miss the old steam sales but I take this as a sign that the PC market is getting stronger, PC sales now stay high for longer so publishers also can wait longer before having to heavily discount their games.

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Slappy212
8 hours ago, SakoCS said:

Real question is will we see equally big bump in graphics like we saw in GTA.

Maybe some RTX magic at least.

I expect a significant but not huge bump on PC visuals, mostly in draw distance, population density and detailed rendering. I'm sure it's already pushing console hardware to the max. 

 

To those debating which platform makes more, that's a moot point. Multiplat is fast becoming the norm. Most publishers want to release on all three because all three make them good money. 

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VolumeRX
2 hours ago, LunaStrky :3 said:

December 31, 2019? I'm going for a PS 4 next week then ._.'

It's an obvious placeholder, but Yan the leaker said aimed for June-July 2019

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Uncle Sikee Atric
1 hour ago, VolumeRX said:

It's an obvious placeholder, but Yan the leaker said aimed for June-July 2019

 

Probably more an announcement for that timeframe.  I'm thinking more 10-12 months before a possible launch.

 

As for the platform, I'm curious to see if they might consider not using Steam for distribution.

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Pocket Fox

It took 6 months for GTA V to come to PC after X1/PS4 and pushing X1/PS4 games to PC is a lot easier than PS3/X360.

 

I guess it all depends if R* wish to spend more time working on RDR2:O first or a PC port... I would assume RDR 2 online, revenue $$$

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fdiuhywsu
2 hours ago, VolumeRX said:

It's an obvious placeholder, but Yan the leaker said aimed for June-July 2019

I know who Yan is but I can't find anything about this.

 

16 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

As for the platform, I'm curious to see if they might consider not using Steam for distribution. 

i know it's a concrete risk but I really hope not.

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Xerukal

 I don't actually know about Yan. All I remember about RDR2 PC leaks is that one dude on 4chan saying "PC later". Think that was at around the time RDR2 was teased with the all red Rockstar logo.

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fdiuhywsu
30 minutes ago, Xerukal said:

 I don't actually know about Yan. All I remember about RDR2 PC leaks is that one dude on 4chan saying "PC later". Think that was at around the time RDR2 was teased with the all red Rockstar logo.

Yes, that and also the linkedin one.

 

Anyway, I think he is referring to this Yan https://twitter.com/Yan2295 but I didn't find anything about him leaking infos about RDR2 PC.

 

Edited by fdiuhywsu

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