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Haxardous

RDR2 PC Discussion & Speculation

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hei3enberg
1 minute ago, Mas u Sees said:

And lastly, well, they want to double dip and make money.

I will never buy their products more than 1 time. If they want to wait years for PC release, maybe I'll get it later if I'm still interested or even wait for discount since it took long enough already, waiting a bit more won't hurt me. I just think that R* should up their game, they haven't actually released a new PC game since 2012 (Max Payne 3) and that's alarming. Although, I should note that V runs very good and miles ahead of IV which was a total disaster. If this time is going to QA, then it's for the best.

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George Costanza
6 minutes ago, Mas u Sees said:

Also Rockstar could just do a standard port to PC, but they want the game to be the best it can be, on PC.

haha no. gta v pc may be polished, but there are still some problems with it. especially with self radio. and it's not like EA or Ubi's PC ports are somehow worse than GTAV. i would even call them better thanks to HDr support, support for Xbone and DS4's icons when playing with gamepad and even pc exclusive ui when playing on mouse and keyboard.

main reason is:

7 minutes ago, Mas u Sees said:

And lastly, well, they want to double dip and make money.

 

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ldani7492
18 minutes ago, hei3enberg said:

I really can't understand why Rockstar can't release the games across the platforms at the same time like others studios are doing with even cross-play capabilities on some titles. It's really backwards, and with V it was annoying as hell: at first I've experienced game on 360 and it was borderline crap, especially online. Then it got ported for One and then, almost 2 years later, on PC. For me this exclusivity means no-go: I like Forza 7 on PC and I would like to play GT Sports on PC too, but somehow the thing is 'exclusive' to Playstation that I will never buy. Seriously, why can't they deliver, it took them what, 5-6 years of development and it's not like PC platform is evolving so fast that it was impossible to start the development process for PC simultaneously with the consoles? Or am I missing something crucial?

I think PC is a riskier platform in the sense that piracy is a lot more common. And Rockstar tends to make games with significant develompent cost. I guess they just want to see if people actually like the game before porting to a platform that has a lot of variety hardware-wise. I don't like it, but I can kind of understand where they are coming from.

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hei3enberg
6 minutes ago, ldani7492 said:

I think PC is a riskier platform in the sense that piracy is a lot more common

For me this argument always was a bust, especially now with online elements being the only updated and lasting parts of their games. There is however, another side of this story, alternative online plugins like FiveM that actually more popular on PC than original Online.

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ldani7492
1 minute ago, hei3enberg said:

For me this argument always was a bust, especially now with online elements being the only updated and lasting parts of their games. There is however, another side of this story, alternative online plugins like FiveM that actually more popular on PC than original Online.

Yeah, but still. I'd like to believe that still a vast majority of people buy their games for story mode. You can call me an idealist, and I may be completely wrong, and I'm certainly very biased here, but still.

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Fetooh
Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Mas u Sees said:

Rockstar could just do a standard port to PC, but they want the game to be the best it can be, on PC.

If the reason of all of this delay is to make it the best it can be on PC why not at least announce it and confirm it for us, they just let us wondering and speculating. It's not a good excuse for me. 

Edited by Fetooh

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Mas u Sees
39 minutes ago, hei3enberg said:

I will never buy their products more than 1 time. If they want to wait years for PC release, maybe I'll get it later if I'm still interested or even wait for discount since it took long enough already, waiting a bit more won't hurt me. I just think that R* should up their game, they haven't actually released a new PC game since 2012 (Max Payne 3) and that's alarming. Although, I should note that V runs very good and miles ahead of IV which was a total disaster. If this time is going to QA, then it's for the best.

The thing is, compared to other video game developers, R* has very high quality experiences.

And with a very high quality product, they are allowed to take their time as most consumers will still buy it.

 

I am certainly buying RDRII again on PC, because I want to experience it in the best way possible.

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Xerukal
Posted (edited)

Most triple A games today have significant development costs, though. Almost all of them make it to PC alongside the console releases, and evidently enjoy pretty good sales figures, since big publishers still continue to release and support games on PC. 

 

I don't think it's development costs at all. Don't think it's taking extra time to "polish" either, though I used to be of the opinion that this was part of the reason. It's just their obnoxious double/triple dip strategy that may as well be company policy at this point.

 

There's also the fact that they simply refuse to officially comment on any fan or journalist questions regarding RDR2 PC. This actually wasn't the case with GTA V. They had copy-paste, blanket statements that basically said "We have no plans for any new versions at this time". Something they repeated religiously until the day they dropped the next-gen trailer for V. 

 

This time, Rockstar PR didn't even bother to bullsh*t us with that. They just let Strauss Zelnick (poorly) handle it during those Take-Two earnings calls. They don't care to keep people informed about any possible new versions of the game, presumably because they want the "old" (current) versions to sell as much as possible. Wouldn't be a completely bad thing if they weren't so f*cking slow and incompetent with servicing their existing platforms. 

Edited by Xerukal

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Mas u Sees
2 minutes ago, Xerukal said:

Most triple A games today have significant development costs, though. Almost all of them make it to PC alongside the console releases, and evidently enjoy pretty good sales figures, since big publishers still continue to release and support games on PC. 

 

I don't think it's development costs at all. Don't think it's taking extra time to "polish" either, though I used to be of the opinion that this was part of the reason. It's just their obnoxious double/triple dip strategy that may as well be company policy at this point.

 

There's also the fact that they simply refuse to officially comment on any fan or journalist questions regarding RDR2 PC. This actually wasn't the case with GTA V. They had copy-paste, blanket statements that basically said "We have no plans for any new versions at this time". Something they repeated religiously until the day they dropped the next-gen trailer for V. 

 

This time, Rockstar PR didn't even bother to bullsh*t us with that. They just let Strauss Zelnick (poorly) handle it during those Take-Two earnings calls. They don't care to keep people informed about any possible new versions of the game, presumably because they want the "old" (current) versions to sell as much as possible. Wouldn't be a completely bad thing if they weren't so f*cking slow and incompetent with servicing their existing platforms. 

What's that supposed to mean?

The reason they haven't mentioned it is because it might as well not be released, just like Story DLC for GTA V, it was planned but if they lack the bandwidth due to other more important imminent projects, they are going to shelve it.

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Fetooh
44 minutes ago, ldani7492 said:

I think PC is a riskier platform in the sense that piracy is a lot more common.

But PC sales are waay better than you think and they were even better than consoles sales in some games, 15m PC copies sold on GTA V or maybe more. So piracy is not a big threat imo especially now(online content is important this days), PC market is way better than 10 years a go.. 

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Xerukal
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Mas u Sees said:

What's that supposed to mean?

Their mishandling of RDRO after launch, as well as the longest, most drawn out soundtrack release period in existence. None of it has inspired confidence in people and just shows overall sloppiness. The soundtrack thing is relatively minor, yes. But them somehow making even worse mistakes with RDRO than they did with GTAO... it was pretty amazing. In a sh*tty way.

 

Quote

The reason they haven't mentioned it is because it might as well not be released, just like Story DLC for GTA V, it was planned but if they lack the bandwidth due to other more important imminent projects, they are going to shelve it.

In this instance, RDR2 PC and (possibly) RDR2 next-gen would be the more imminent project(s). It's more than likely that they want people to keep buying and playing RDR2 and RDRO beyond the Xbox One and PS4, so their priorities should be pretty clear. Unless they plan on releasing another game in 2020/2021. Which, given how long RDR2 took, is pretty unlikely right now.

Edited by Xerukal

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ldani7492
7 minutes ago, Fetooh said:

But PC sales are waay better than you think and they were even better than consoles sales in some games, 15m PC copies sold on GTA V or maybe more. So piracy is not a big threat imo especially now(online content is important this days), PC market is way better than 10 years a go.. 

15M is certainly a lot (not sure where the number is coming from though, I couldn't find this number, but I also didn't spend too much time looking for it), but it's not that much compared to the 110M+ overall sales.

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Mas u Sees
4 minutes ago, Xerukal said:

Their mishandling of RDRO after launch, as well as the longest, most drawn out soundtrack release period in existence. None of it has inspired confidence in people and just shows overall sloppiness. The soundtrack thing is relatively minor, yes. But them somehow making even worse mistakes with RDRO than they did with GTAO... it was pretty amazing. In a sh*tty way.

 

In this instance, RDR2 PC and (possibly) RDR2 next-gen would be the more imminent project(s). It's more than likely that they want people to keep buying and playing RDR2 and RDRO beyond the Xbox One and PS4, so their priorities should be pretty clear. Unless they plan on releasing another game in 2020/2021. Which, given how long RDR2 took, is pretty unlikely right now.

Well the reason Red Dead Online launch was so bad, was because they focused all their attention on Singleplayer(as people expected them to)

And well, they were kinda honest about it, being a BETA.(And YES, it was a Beta despite having micortransactions in it, the developmental state of the game has NOTHING to do with it's optimisation)

Though imo, with the last Update they are slowly bringing things back on track, and I think the coming year Red Dead Online will see a big focus from Rockstar.

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Jason
18 minutes ago, ldani7492 said:

15M is certainly a lot (not sure where the number is coming from though, I couldn't find this number, but I also didn't spend too much time looking for it), but it's not that much compared to the 110M+ overall sales.

~15m is from SteamSpy data, which is a rough estimate gathered from pulling public Steam profile data. This doesn't include non-Steam sales and the only place to buy a Steam version of V is on Steam, every other version gives you a RGSC version. PC sales are likely north of 20m+, and that is probably a lowball.

 

Also dimissing 15m sales is craycray. That's nearly a billion dollars at $60 a pop lmao, there's been about only a handful of games this gen that have made that sort of money from game sales across three platforms.

 

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Pentraksil
4 hours ago, ldani7492 said:

 but it's not that much compared to the 110M+ overall sales.

Well, it is actually a lot. Since those 110m sales are on PS3, PS4, Xbone, X360 and PC combined. It is unfair to look at one platform and compare it to other 5 in total.

 

PC alone having almost 20 million sold (if we count and estimate of all sales outside of SteamSpy, which is a lot) is a very significant number right there. Not to mention a lot of those PC sales returning 100% of the price back to the developers through key sites and R* warehouse, which is not the option on consoles as far as I know (every game on Xbox and PS take around 30%, no matter where you buy it)

 

So it is indeed THAT much, that is a huge profit and Take Two and R* know it.

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IG_
5 hours ago, Pentraksil said:

Not to mention a lot of those PC sales returning 100% of the price back to the developers through key sites and R* warehouse

Not really, retailers that sell the RGSC version of the game also take a cut. Only R* Warehouse is 100%.
But if you bought it from places like GMG, Amazon, Best Buy, etc, those retailers take a cut. I don't know what their cut is, though.

 

But with that being said I'm just nitpicking here, GTA V on PC was a massive success no matter how you look at it. Four years after launch and it has always been in the top 10 played games on Steam.

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ldani7492
7 hours ago, IG_ said:

But with that being said I'm just nitpicking here, GTA V on PC was a massive success no matter how you look at it.

Sure, it was. My point is, they might not have expected it to be this successful. They might have wanted to see the reception on platforms where there are less moving parts first.

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RedDread

the way i see it is rockstar know it will do well on PC and they know even if they waited 5 years to release it it would still be commercially successful. hell rockstar could release it in 2022 exclusive to uplay and I think it would still be successful. People who say that they wont buy it when it comes out if they take that long and be greedy by releasing on a certain platform are irrelevant, you are a very small fraction of a much larger fan base. I don't think rockstar will release RDR2 PC anytime soon because they don't need the money at the moment and they don't need the extra publicity. Rockstar and take 2 are probably still raking in boatloads from RDR2 and with the casino update coming they will rake in even more. Rockstar is only going to release RDR2 PC when they need the money. I hope im wrong but only time will tell.

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Spider-Vice
19 hours ago, George Costanza said:

haha no. gta v pc may be polished, but there are still some problems with it. especially with self radio.

GTA V was a proper PC developed game though, just the additional features aren't... very perfect.

 

-----------

As for the piracy thing, piracy can literally help sales.

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Pentraksil
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, IG_ said:

Not really, retailers that sell the RGSC version of the game also take a cut. Only R* Warehouse is 100%.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that. Only Warehouse takes 100%. As for most other retailers they sometimes take bulk keys, at a discounted price, but that is it. All in all, the cut is still smaller compared to what Sony and Microsoft take.

Edited by Pentraksil
typo

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Spider-Vice
21 hours ago, hei3enberg said:

it took them what, 5-6 years of development and it's not like PC platform is evolving so fast that it was impossible to start the development process for PC simultaneously with the consoles? Or am I missing something crucial?

Want to know the funny part? GTA V PC was developed at the same time as the last gen versions, but then they re-used the PC version to develop the current-gen version and only AFTER release the actual (further enhanced) PC version.

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hei3enberg
26 minutes ago, Spider-Vice said:

Want to know the funny part? GTA V PC was developed at the same time as the last gen versions, but then they re-used the PC version to develop the current-gen version and only AFTER release the actual (further enhanced) PC version.

What the actual hell?! Now I'm really annoyed. Under no circumstances I'm buying RDR 2 for the full price. I know that my money won't mean crap in a perspective, but it's what I can actually do. I can't advocate this approach and won't ask others to boycott anything, but I'm done with R* BS considering PC releases. Thanks for the clarifications, that was eye-opening.

 

2 hours ago, RedDread said:

People who say that they wont buy it when it comes out if they take that long and be greedy by releasing on a certain platform are irrelevant, you are a very small fraction of a much larger fan base.

Yeah, I'm also old enough to witness the disintegration of old franchises like NFS. That was a pivotal title in PC gaming and now it means absolutely nothing, all that larger fan base is gone either to Forza/ Gran Turismo (and even these titles are getting more divided with Motorsport/ Horizon and GT Sports) or even more niche products like sim racing games. A lot of games are getting open worlds and R* is still at the top of this game, but their general approach and some game design decisions are not going to last.

 

 

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RedIndianRobin

GTA V sold humongous on PC. End of discussion.  It's still on Steam's top sellers in 2019 FFS. Not many games can say "I am in Steam's top sellers for 4 consecutive years", not even Witcher 3. 

 

Can we come back to topic please? Thanks. 

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Uncle Sikee Atric
15 minutes ago, RedIndianRobin said:

Can we come back to topic please? Thanks. 

 

When did it leave?

Without anything new to discuss on the actual subject, this has become a more 'general PC-issues related' thread.  If new detail / leaks appear, then we can come down and offer firmer rules, but for now, meh, it's not worth worrying too much about.

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Spider-Vice
Posted (edited)

 

3 hours ago, hei3enberg said:

What the actual hell?! Now I'm really annoyed.

Oh yeah. GTA V PC was seen in the developer logs that were leaked in the PS3 version of GTA V, and Rockstar Toronto said in an interview how the PC version was used as a base for the next-gen versions (which released first). The article is on PC Gamer but a bit hard to find.

 

Edit: https://www.pcgamer.com/rockstar-talk-4k-pc-performance-and-more/

Quote

We were always going to bring GTA 5 to PC. We planned from day 1 for a PC build and we made technical decisions based off the fact that we would be doing a PC version of the game. While we started development of the PC version quite early, we decided to focus the bulk of our attention on the PS3 and XB360 versions first in order to push that as far as we possibly could before turning our attention to the PS4 and Xbox One versions, and then using the shared architecture underpinning the new consoles to help ourselves ramp up into the PC version and push the game as far as we possibly could knowing we would have the opportunity to make the game look and feel better than it ever has.

 

Edited by Spider-Vice

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Officer Friendly

The business case for staggered releases is an interesting one, it's clear TK2 want to stretch(RDR2 soundtrack delay anyone) this revenue stream out for multiple years like with GTA5. 

 

TK2 values the double and triple dip over simultaneous releases, they know the PC is the ultimate platform(best graphics, Mods) and releasing it early would compromise console sales. 

 

Perhaps they do earn more money from console sales than we give them credit for?

 

It's a scary thought for PC players when they might decide to market the "nextgen" versions of RDR2 as 60FPS or 4K30FPS before a PC release.

 

The saving grace is we're at least one year away from the new consoles and in the end it will come down to shareholder satisfaction, if GTAO continues to hum along with RDRO strengthening then we could be in for a long wait.

 

 

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saoghal

The game is already 8 frigging months old and no sing of nothing.... Rockstar is really becoming one of the worse Video Game company of the last few year's for me. It takes the crown out of EA...

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kabbee

Say what you want about EA but atleast they release a game on all available platforms. Its so disgustingly greedy of R*/Take2 to do this to the fans. I have played RDR2 but i havent bought it, i will buy it once it hits Steam. 

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Jason

If you really think Rockstar are taking EA's crown then you're not following EA at all lol. They are a rot in the industry, they continue to ram lootboxes into their games as well as shamelessly defend them when their BS gets called out, which includes lying to governments, combined with their annual sports games where they gut new content out of the fear they'll take players away from their cash cow mode (Ultimate Team). Then you have their track record for single player this gen which is the worst out of all the AAA publishers this generation, closing studios... The list goes on really. Even their multiplayer experiences these days are all average at best.

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Wolver_321

Do you actually think that Rockstar is at the same level of a company that says "lootboxes are surprise mechanics" and that try to sue governments just because they can't monetize their games in some countries?

 

16 minutes ago, kabbee said:

Say what you want about EA but atleast they release a game on all available platforms. Its so disgustingly greedy of R*/Take2 to do this to the fans. I have played RDR2 but i havent bought it, i will buy it once it hits Steam. 

EA create 7-8 games per year, how could they fragment the launch of their titles on consoles first and then on PC? Would it make so much sense to have FIFA 20 on PC six months after its release on consoles? No.

Rockstar now create a new game after 3-4 years since its predecessor, they also spend a ton of money for development and marketing... I don't want to defend this kind of business, but at least they're justified, they have to maximize their investment with just one game while EA can count on 20+ titles in that amount of time.

 

35 minutes ago, saoghal said:

The game is already 8 frigging months old and no sing of nothing.... Rockstar is really becoming one of the worse Video Game company of the last few year's for me. It takes the crown out of EA...

Yep, Rockstar creates awful games, unlike EA... Anthem is going to smash RDR2, mark my words! Please judge the final product and not what it's behind, in the end all companies want to maximize their income.

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