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jamesos

Children in RDR 2?

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SneakyDeaky

I have a real hero complex so if anyone touches the rosy cheeked angels in front of me I'll hang them from a cliff.

One of the bounties HAS to be a child killer/rapist. Rockstar won't be afraid to go there and mostly everyone will be satisfied to "collect" the bastard.

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pedrohvg
1 hour ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Because a child is young, innocent, naive, helpless, defenseless, and blindly trusts in the goodness of grownups to help *them* grow up.

 

So if you see that, in real life or in fiction, and still feel the urge to kill that child...you're f*cked in the head.

End of discussion at my end.

And a dog is young, innocent, naive, helpless, defenseless, and blindly trusts in the goodnes of human being, like cows, fish, ducks, deer. A young lady walking on the streets is young, innocent, naive, helpless, defenseless and you going to find a thousand videos from people killing, burning, spanking those innocent people/animals (in videogames). For me, if you think killing a animal or a human being for no purpose in real life, doesn't matter if it is 5 years old, 12 or 80, you're a sick being. In videogames? Doesn't make any difference at all.

 

PS: One more thing. I respect your opinion, you probably don't like to just killing, for no reason, in games, correct? So, if rockstar allows to kill children, you will not do that, right? So, why you bother? Because someone, somewhere, who you'll probably never know, might is killing a child in the game? Why it is so important?

 

PS2: Sorry, one more edit hahaha. I think it's going to be a superb game, this discussion is just a "minor one", probably if to be possible to kill children, I would try one or two times just to see how the world reacts, after that I think I won't even remember that anymore and go for all the new/great things this game has to offer. I just defend the freedom for the developers create anything they want, realistic environment, AI, reactions, just that.

Edited by pedrohvg
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CrimsonFolo

I'm not saying that i want to kill children in the game or anything, i just believe that it would make the game less immersive if you can encounter them in free roam and they're invulnerable to all forms of damage. Like animals won't attack them or stuff like that.

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PapasHota

If you cant kill the kids, theres no reason to even add them.

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rtie
On 9/13/2018 at 2:48 AM, NeptuneLewisGunner said:

I'd  like  to  able  arm  and  equip kids.  

alright kony

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berzelmayr
2 hours ago, pedrohvg said:

And a dog is young, innocent, naive, helpless, defenseless, and blindly trusts in the goodnes of human being, like cows, fish, ducks, deer. A young lady walking on the streets is young, innocent, naive, helpless, defenseless and you going to find a thousand videos from people killing, burning, spanking those innocent people/animals (in videogames). For me, if you think killing a animal or a human being for no purpose in real life, doesn't matter if it is 5 years old, 12 or 80, you're a sick being. In videogames? Doesn't make any difference at all.

Of course, it makes a difference. Imagine a prison cell, where one guy is there after having killed a 30 y/o woman, while the other one is the murderer of a 5 y/o child - I'm sure the former totally looks down on the other, thinking he's "not as bad". He'd probably even attack the other one in the hope of getting some applause from people, who would normally consider him to be just a total scumbag, too.

 

It's part of our nature to think that the life of such a young kid is more valuable and that the murderers of children would be more contemptible than murderers of adults. That should be common knowledge since the research of people like Konrad Lorenz, who explained the connection between "Kindchenschema" and "Beschützerinstinkt":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuteness

 

 

Quote

PS: One more thing. I respect your opinion, you probably don't like to just killing, for no reason, in games, correct? So, if rockstar allows to kill children, you will not do that, right? So, why you bother? Because someone, somewhere, who you'll probably never know, might is killing a child in the game? Why it is so important?

Because people, who are against that, wouldn't like it, if their favorite game gets a bad reputation (and that would surely happen, which also explains why R* won't do it), similar like the fan of an athlete would be  embarrassed, if it turned out that his idol was only winning, because he cheated.

 

 

Quote

PS2: Sorry, one more edit hahaha. I think it's going to be a superb game, this discussion is just a "minor one", probably if to be possible to kill children, I would try one or two times just to see how the world reacts, after that I think I won't even remember that anymore and go for all the new/great things this game has to offer. I just defend the freedom for the developers create anything they want, realistic environment, AI, reactions, just that.

R* wouldn't do that and a mod neither (probably too complicated and I guess not welcomed by sites like nexus mods). Use your imagination then.

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pedrohvg
3 hours ago, The FoolYT said:

I'm not saying that i want to kill children in the game or anything, i just believe that it would make the game less immersive if you can encounter them in free roam and they're invulnerable to all forms of damage. Like animals won't attack them or stuff like that.

Agreed.

 

3 hours ago, PapasHota said:

If you cant kill the kids, theres no reason to even add them.

Yes.

 

55 minutes ago, berzelmayr said:

Of course, it makes a difference. Imagine a prison cell, where one guy is there after having killed a 30 y/o woman, while the other one is the murderer of a 5 y/o child - I'm sure the former totally looks down on the other, thinking he's "not as bad". He'd probably even attack the other one in the hope of getting some applause from people, who would normally consider him to be just a total scumbag, too.

 

It's part of our nature to think that the life of such a young kid is more valuable and that the murderers of children would be more contemptible than murderers of adults. That should be common knowledge since the research of people like Konrad Lorenz, who explained the connection between "Kindchenschema" and "Beschützerinstinkt":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuteness

 

 

Because people, who are against that, wouldn't like it, if their favorite game gets a bad reputation (and that would surely happen, which also explains why R* won't do it), similar like the fan of an athlete would be  embarrassed, if it turned out that his idol was only winning, because he cheated.

 

 

R* wouldn't do that and a mod neither (probably too complicated and I guess not welcomed by sites like nexus mods). Use your imagination then.

Rockstar faced a lot of controversy and criticism since its first GTA. The last game, more advanced one, with animals (first time in gta), sold 100 million. I Don't think they're going to lose their fans but they know they're going to face the rage of the conservative people. Like this "Rockstar: GTA 'Hot Coffee' scandal was 'draining and upsetting' Cofounder Dan Houser recalls controversy surrounding sex minigame was a "tough time" at the company.". 

 

"mod neither (probably too complicated and I guess not welcomed by sites like nexus mods)" are you sure about it? 

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37660/ - Stranger Danger - Children can be pick-pocketed or killed - 100.000 downloads.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/13202 - Non-Essential Children - Children can now die. Children can be pickpocketed and looted. 350.000 downloads hahaha.

Edited by pedrohvg
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berzelmayr
4 minutes ago, pedrohvg said:

Agreed.

Quote

If you cant kill the kids, theres no reason to even add them.

Yes.

Now that's just silly.

 

 

Quote

GTA faced a lot of controversy and criticism since its first game. The last game, more advanced one, with animals (first time in gta), sold 100 million. Don't they're going to lose their fans but they know its going to face the rage of the conservative people. Like this "Rockstar: GTA 'Hot Coffee' scandal was 'draining and upsetting' Cofounder Dan Houser recalls controversy surrounding sex minigame was a "tough time" at the company.". 

That trouble would be nothing compared to enabling players to kill kid-npcs. I don't think R* is seeing that in a very different way as the producers of the Assassin's Creed Games or Witcher 3.

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Cutter De Blanc

So I can kill the kid's parents right in front of him and then tell him to go f*ck himself, but I can't kill him? I think that's okay.

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Ol' Stinky Pete

Can we just like... Kill this thread now? :/

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Orfan Loom
1 hour ago, Ol' Stinky Pete said:

Can we just like... Kill this thread now? :/

No, no! It's too young, naive and defensless! :sarcasm:

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SneakyDeaky
1 hour ago, Ol' Stinky Pete said:

Can we just like... Kill this thread now? :/

 

4 minutes ago, Orfan Loom said:

No, no! It's too young, naive and defensless! :sarcasm:

Or how about we just keep discussing it like rational human beings like we have been doing?

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Orfan Loom

People, just imagine this scenario: A gang of savages comes into town, they plan to rob the bank and kill anyone in the way. But you happen to be in town and you decide to stop them- -a shootout starts, you kill some of them, but then they accidentaly shoot a child dead! And you get angry and you savagely kill them all, like the savages they were! This is a dramatic scenario that you see in movies sometimes, when kids are getting shot in the streets or whatever.

So imagine if the kids in RDR2 are invincible. Yeah, you will never see this scenario in play. 

 

P.S. Why would you assume that it would be necessarily Arthur who kills a child?

During the raid on the boat named "Serendipity" Dutch kills a girl. It's never mentioned whether or not she was a child or a grown woman.

 

Quote
  • It should also be mentioned that the Strange Man, in the beginning of the mission "I Know You", the Strange Man asks John if he remember's Heidi McCourt, that "She was a girl Dutch van der Linde shot in the head on that raid on the ferry a few years back. Same one you (John Marston) got shot on."  It could be that they are referring to the failed heist where John was shot and left for dead, possibly in the wreckage of the Serendipity.

 

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Cutter De Blanc

or if some young teenage boy tries to shoot you to avenge his pa, what do you do? do you shoot down the boy, or let him kill you?

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SAS_Intruder

It all depends what we consider to be kids. Some "kids" were outlaws at the age of 15-16 and they wouldn't mind killing grown ups, same even today with different gangs and initiation in the specific gang can require "kid" to kill someone.  So there is thin and blurry line between kids and "kids".

 

In perfect world, I wouldn't mind being able to hurt kids by accident or if you really have to. Let's say you just robbed his father, you killed him during a fight and now kid grabs a gun? You probably would have to shot the kid. I wouldn't like it but that is how real life works. 

 

However,  I see problem with intentionally killing kids in most creative ways you can and enjoying that. This is something Rockstar is probably worried about and for a good reason. For me, it doesn't matter since I wasn't planning on hurting kids, even though they are not real. But during my gaming life, I found out there is so many disturbed people out there and it is obvious they need a help in real life, yet help is not there. It is enough that they have access to be sadistic pricks as much as they want, but at least hurting kids, even imaginary,  should be limited to only those situations required by the storyline. 

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pedrohvg
3 hours ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

So I can kill the kid's parents right in front of him and then tell him to go f*ck himself, but I can't kill him? I think that's okay.

1 hour ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

or if some young teenage boy tries to shoot you to avenge his pa, what do you do? do you shoot down the boy, or let him kill you?

1 hour ago, Orfan Loom said:

No, no! It's too young, naive and defensless! :sarcasm:

 

LOL here.  😂 I'm happy to see that you can comprehend the hypocrisy here. You can explode the world, fine, but NOOO kill pixel children is a crime. 😂

Edited by pedrohvg

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Wootgratzhugz

Mods modding the ability to Kill NPC Children may be the reason Red Dead may not come out on PC. I'm not saying definitively it won't come out, I'm saying if it doesn't that could be a cause.

 

From a PR nightmare perspective. Who knows, R* could still give the go ahead, then the decesion is Money or Dead Children PR.

 

Yes I know, it's NPCs & Pixals, that's not how the Media spins it.

Just my thoughts on the perspective of things.

 

In the end it's a wait & see.

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ALifeOfMisery

I'd be ok with children being able to be killed in game.

 

Is killing children something I actively want to do or engage in? No. But if a child happens to get too close to some dynamite or runs across a shoot out and dies, will I lose any sleep? No. I'd rather that than them being able to walk through explosions or have bullets pass through them.

 

It would be interesting how the game and honour system reacts to such an event, shops and inns refusing to serve us, mobs chasing us, maybe rendering us as permanently dishonourable for the rest of that play through etc.

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TheSantader25

I don't like the idea of killing children in video games but I just want to see what happens when you do such a thing. How would the world react?So I'm basically confused whether I want it or not. I will try and see what happens whether R* implements this or not. Not because I'm a sadistic human being. Because part of the fun in video games is trying stuff you can't do in real life to see what happens but at the same time if R* includes such a feature that means they are probably the first dev to approve such an act which will definitely cause trouble for the game. They wouldn't want a small thing like this to ruin an 8 year old project. I'm happy with yelling at children though. Gonna be fun. 

 

And the best solution for keeping the immersion is this IMO:as soon as you start a massive shootout or massacre, children should run away out of your line of sight and dissappear. If you keep following them with your camera view, they can run to the woods and dissappear behind a tree or something. 

Edited by TheSantader25
Typos

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NeptuneLewisGunner

The  reason   I  want to  arm  and  equip kids is  to  prevent them  from  mauled  to  death  by  wild animals.  My  little  chihuahua  lived  after  being  by  a  free  roaming  Samoyed sled-type only  due  to  emergency  surgery.  I  was  an  emotional  wreck  that  day.  How  much  worse  would  it  be  for  a  parent  to  see  their  child  torn up  that  way , too.   

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~INDIO~
On 8/10/2018 at 2:42 PM, gonnaenodaethat said:

These are not the midgets I speak of

Shooting a midget in the head is fine

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gonnaenodaethat
49 minutes ago, ~INDIO~ said:

Shooting a midget in the head is fine

 

Especially when he sells you a dodgy caravan Ken.

 

 

PS

 

Oi b**bags leave those bairns Alane

All in all you're just another pr**k whaes gotta console

Edited by gonnaenodaethat
Added the astericks cos ahm no a total pr**k
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  • fir thi bairns 4

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Sandereas

I don't think they will let you kill them. They will just provoke alot of controversy. And they had enough of that in the past. 

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NotThisGuy

I hope, they arent killable nor hurtable.

If only for not serving the sick fetish some in here seem to have.

 

wtf is wrong with you guys?

non-killable children ruin immersion - lol ok.

 

EDIT: Regarding Skyrim and the mods, its not a strong case even with those numbers.

Lets say there were 10.000.000 copies of skyrim sold (which there was far more i think 20.000.000 on steam)

and if only 50% mod their game  then the number of people who couldnt take it, that childrens are not harmable, is still very small compared to those who didnt care. So thats a bad example actually and just prooves that the majority are either not killing children or they dont care if they can.

Edited by NotThisGuy
SkyrimMods

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Orfan Loom
40 minutes ago, NotThisGuy said:

non-killable children ruin immersion - lol ok.

Do you remember Little Lamplight?

You either make children killable, or don't make any kind of a quest like this. 

 

Anyway, I don't think R* has anything nearly as bad as Little Lamplight, so it's unnecessary to make kids killable in RDR2. 

But it's unnecessary not because of the vague 'It's sick to kill children!' (again, it's sick to kill anyone), but it's unnecessary simply storywise... Or is it? That we are not aware of... yet. So when the game comes out, we will know if there is any point in the story, where someone kills a child.

For example: (minor RDR 1 spoilers)

Spoiler

Remember that girl Dutch kills? It's never stated whether she was a kid, or a teen or a woman...

  • It should also be mentioned that the Strange Man, in the beginning of the mission "I Know You", the Strange Man asks John if he remember's Heidi McCourt, that "She was a girl Dutch van der Linde shot in the head on that raid on the ferry a few years back. Same one you (John Marston) got shot on."  It could be that they are referring to the failed heist where John was shot and left for dead, possibly in the wreckage of the Serendipity.

But this example is kinda far-fetched, because it could've been a cutscene.

 

But what about gameplay?

Well. Imagine a gang rode into town, they start killing everyone, robbing people, maybe a bank. And you (Arthur) see that and decide to stop them. 

In the middle of a shootout they kill some kid, who happened to be in town...

So, it should be either kids are killable, and NPCs (or you) are able to kill them. Or there should be a script, that despawns any kids, when a shootout starts. 

 

You decide what's better for immersion....

 

Personally I don't think R* would be so bold about this situation.

But who knows, anything's possible, so it seems lately.

Edited by Orfan Loom

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NotThisGuy

Well, i didnt play FO3 that much and i wasnt aware of the quest.

Interesting read - thanks!

 

Idk if it is more sick or equally sick to kill an adult - i really dont know and i wouldnt know who could be the instance to decide that.

Overall imo a kid has a much much smaller chance to deserve being murdered.

 

I think we can scrap the idea of dutch killing a "girl" since the term "girl" can be used very loosely.

 

About gameplay:

I think Skyrim is the perfect example on how do this - they run for their lives hiding in the houses.

 

My point is: having children (which are not killable) add to the immersion more than the fact that you cant kill them can take away again.

Its just the picture of the complete family. The picture of the boy whos father you just killed,.... the examples are endless.

 

It adds so much more depth to the lives of the npcs.

 

Also i think it is a very hot topic.

Because now you have kids in the game.

Next stop: killable kids

Next stop: torturing kids

Next stop: ?

Where to stop? Or not stopping at all?

 

I think our real life values kick in here too much maybe.

But it is mainstream to believe a kids life is more valuable than an adults life - and i kinda understand why.

 

 

 

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Orfan Loom

Considering the setting - Wild West, where livin' another day was a miracle. 

Maybe dead kids would be considered a historical representation of the era.

 

Killing kids in GTA (in a modern setting that we all can directly relate to) would be far more controversial. 

Killing kids in TES... I dunno, what's so controversial? It's, like.... a f*cking fantasy world that doesn't even exist anywhere at all. And if it did, then the game would be a representation of an era far more brutal than Wild West...

 

 

Just sayin'...

 

Edited by Orfan Loom

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RD2Head87
On 9/24/2018 at 1:19 PM, PapasHota said:

If you cant kill the kids, theres no reason to even add them.

I completely disagree. I don’t need to kill them, just having them around makes it seem a little bit more realistic, that’s why they added them.

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ALifeOfMisery

I still don't have any major issue with children being able to be killed in game.

 

Again, I'm not going to be the kind of player who goes around killing kids if it is possible. I'm also not going to be on here complaining that immersion has been ruined if children are immortal. I'd simply rather not have any NPCs that can pass through dynamite explosions or have stray bullets pass through them unharmed.

 

I know each of us will project a set of values upon Arthur, and the spectrum of values will be vast, but for me, regardless of how "bad" I choose to be in any given play through, Arthur doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would empty a shotgun into a 3 year old.

 

That said, I am intrigued as to how the game would treat such an event, even if it was a genuine accident. I wouldn't want an instant game over/mission failed, but what if the town/city in which a child was killed basically closes to you in terms of usefulness? In that you are refused entry to businesses so Arthur is left unable to buy food, guns, ammunition or clothing etc., unable to go anywhere to sleep of bathe. Maybe even have fellow gang members refuse to gamble or hunt with you.

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JohnCena420

Considering that the combat in this game is so brutal (so much that it is uncomfortable as seen in that Spanish review), I'm guessing we'll be able to kill kids, but they will die instantly, and we won't be able to torture them or anything. Our honor will also probably go down.

Edited by Domac

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