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jamesos

Children in RDR 2?

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Nutduster
11 minutes ago, Rusty James said:

That's a psychopath

 

It's not.  Psychopaths (and sociopaths, the terms are mostly interchangeable these days) are characterized by a lack of remorse, lack of empathy, and inability to tell right from wrong (or at least a complete disregard for the distinction).  Lots of criminals are willing to do things for money that they privately regret or feel ashamed of.  There are far more criminals (even violent criminals) than psychopaths.  There are also many non-violent psychopaths.  The two would be part of a Venn diagram with some amount of overlap, but the two things are not the same.

 

11 minutes ago, Rusty James said:

What battle? I already wrote a few posts above that I don't care at all.

 

For a guy who doesn't care, you are sure posting about this a lot.

Edited by Nutduster
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eastriver

I don't think Rockstar would ever allow you to assault or kill kids in their games.

So here is my thoughts on the kids we saw during the gameplay video:
-They are locked behind cutscenes - We haven't seen definite proof that you can come across a kid when controlling your character.
-You can come across kids in RDR2 but only in certain and limited parts of the game where it's impossible for you to have a gun on you. 

Personally, I think kids are locked behind cutscenes. Having kids magically reappear in a moment of the game where you happen to lose access to all your weapons would be weird lol.

Edited by IG_

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Rusty James
10 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

 

It's not.  Psychopaths (and sociopaths, the terms are mostly interchangeable these days) are characterized by a lack of remorse, lack of empathy, and inability to tell right from wrong (or at least a complete disregard for the distinction).  Lots of criminals are willing to do things for money that they privately regret or feel ashamed of.  There are far more criminals (even violent criminals) than psychopaths.

 

 

For a guy who doesn't care, you are sure posting about this a lot.

Huh?Thats how forums work buddy, you reply and I reply back.
Psychopathy isn't even a medical diagnosis since DSM V publication and antisocial personality disorder is a complex issue that will derail this thread, so lets keep this on topic.

Edited by Rusty James

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Nutduster
9 minutes ago, Rusty James said:

Huh?Thats how forums work buddy, you reply and I reply back.
Psychopathy isn't even a medical diagnosis since DSM V publication and antisocial personality disorder is a complex issue that will derail this thread, so lets keep this on topic.

 

Uh... you brought it up, not me.  Anyway, the point is that most armed robbers, or Old West outlaw gangs, would never kill kids.  They would go out of their way not to, in fact.  Even if they were immoral to the point of not caring about murdering a child (which most would not be), they would still be smart enough usually to understand that shooting a grown man in a robbery-gone-wrong is one kind of crime, and shooting a child is the kind that gets a posse to hunt you down and lynch you.

 

I get that you just want to have maximum freedom and not have games corralling you artificially, but this is the compromise we live with to have a more realistic game with children in it.  They're just not gonna allow it and most players wouldn't even want to.

Edited by Nutduster
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Cutter De Blanc

They aren't actually real children.

It's a video game.

Some people cannot distinguish fantasy from reality

Killing humans is bad

Killing video game characters. not so much.

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RedDadRedemption

the problem with children in this is when it comes to PC some pervert who mods the game will probably swap the the camp prostitutes model out with one of the kids

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Fidzy
On 8/10/2018 at 11:04 AM, Finite said:

 

Killing anyone intentionally is psychotic, what's the difference between being able to murder a small town and murdering a child from a psychological point of view? Nothing, you are still a psychopath regardless so that is a ridiculous counter argument. How much do you achieve from killing literally any pedestrian in any GTA game? Almost none in effectively all cases and yet people still do it yet you wouldn't consider them psychotic? 

 

If they are in the game it would be interesting to see what would happen if you did kill a child, even if accidentally when shooting up a town you accidentally killed a child in the crossfire the reputation of Morgan and the gang should drop considerably, to the degree where you may see specialist law enforcement measures taken to hunt you down because not only are you a killer, you're a gang of killers who show no mercy which could end up making the game a lot harder for the player as a consequence for their actions.

Because killing adult characters has been around in games of this genre for so long that they're literally just artificial intelligence. The minute you change that to a child, which is intentionally themed and obviously backed somehow, that's when the simple act of killing someone on a game changes from mindless actions to psychotic. Why do you fail to understand this?!

The line:

Killing people | Intentionally targeting children.

Edited by Fidzy
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Johnny Spaz

Child murder Honor -1000

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AdlersHand

I say the only time we see kids is in cutscenes, transitions between cutscenes to gamplay or a protected area like the gang camp. Problem solved.

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berzelmayr
23 hours ago, AdlersHand said:

I say the only time we see kids is in cutscenes, transitions between cutscenes to gamplay or a protected area like the gang camp. Problem solved.

If games like The Witcher 3 and Assassins Creed Origins could handle it to have children in an open world (including ones that die, just not through willful actions of the protagonist), then why not RDR2? In MGS V TPP there were even several child soldiers - the mission failed, if you had killed one of them instead of tranquilizing.

Edited by berzelmayr

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SmokesWithCigs

I think children shojld ne present in all openworld games even gta but make rhem invincible .assasins creed 3 had orphan kids in the Boston area. It makes the game more life like. At least have teenagers in the games along with schools and school zones efc.

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jamesos
On 8/10/2018 at 2:45 AM, AndyGanteks said:

I'm 99.9% sure they will only appear in your camp when it's stationary only, and not moving to a new location in a convoy, since you can't shoot/pull your gun in the camp radius(Like in GTA O where you can't shoot in your offices/garages/nightclubs etc) and would rather only interact with the kids via some mini game, conversation, or as a side mission giver.

But will be interesting to see how this will be handled by R* once and if the PC version is out and trainers and mods follow.

Ok, but how do you explain the child seen in the very beginning of the gameplay trailer? Theres no way thats a cutscene.

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NeptuneLewisGunner

I'd  like  to  able  arm  and  equip kids.  

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Anonamix

It's unfortunate that people still have such a difficulty telling reality from fiction. 

 

But I highly doubt they will allow it.

Edited by Anonamix
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RD2Head87
On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 12:05 AM, Anonamix said:

It's unfortunate that people still have such a difficulty telling reality from fiction. 

 

But I highly doubt they will allow it.

Children are already confirmed in the game, plus the son of John and Abigail, Jack Marston. all confirmed in the Gameplay trailer.

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Anonamix
6 hours ago, RD2Head87 said:

Children are already confirmed in the game, plus the son of John and Abigail, Jack Marston. all confirmed in the Gameplay trailer.

Sorry. I meant harm-able children.

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SneakyDeaky

Likely a bollard. 


 

Edited by SneakyDeaky

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Jason

Looks like a bollard to me.

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SneakyDeaky

I thought it was a bollard but I'm having a hard time finding an image of one quite that shape and that colorful.

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Fatsanchez

Havent R* already said something along the lines of “we wont be able to do what Arthur wouldnt do”? Maybe this is (also) related to (not) killing children. Maybe it hints at not being able to kill the little f*cks (im kidding, love kids). Maybe it will make us fail whatever mission we’re doing. Or maybe triggering an “I/E like aimbot enemy”, I dunno. I just hope the kids arent magically harmless, for the sake of immersion. But I can see why they would do something like this. I mean its not like some country is keeping thousands of little children in cages away from their parents in 2018 right? But I digress.

 

I could totally see Dutch killing children tho, and honestly believe it would totally add to the drama of him becoming more and more insane.

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Cutter De Blanc

So the IGN previewer said kids are in the game, you can yell at them, but he wasn't able to lasso the kid

Can't wait to yell at some kids

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Kemo66

I suspect you just won't be able to target them with your gun/knife etc, probably in the same way you won't be able to kill any of your gang or any other key NPC. Not sure how they will handle the horse charging at them issue, maybe they'll just be supremely adept at leaping out of the way :)  

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Shadowfennekin
19 hours ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

So the IGN previewer said kids are in the game, you can yell at them, but he wasn't able to lasso the kid

Can't wait to yell at some kids

That was to be expected, they're different models from adults.

 

I just hope they aren't invincible or instant game over. Kids work in games like Assassins Creed because you're not supposed to go around killing innocents, you'll get unsynched(Game over) after killing a few civilians. But in games involving killing, stealing, and all sort of other stuff.... kids shouldn't be in if they can't die. It's just so immersion breaking when you slaughter a whole town and little Timmy is running around screaming and unable to die. That is the issue I've always had with Bethesda games, especially cause they have kids with annoying personalities than the adults like that little brat in Whiterun and the water kid in Diamond City. You shouldn't have to download mods just to do that.... only important NPCs like Dutch, Javier, Bill, John, Abigal, and Jack deserve to be immortal. Not unnamed kids, people wonder why some of us want to off kids in a game? It's because they're in a game involving killing, stealing, and all other sort of horrible stuff! Naturally nobody would go killing a kid irl, that's as crazy as saying videogames cause violence. They did say WE decide Arthur's morality, killing kids wouldn't suit John Marston.... but who knows about Arthur.

 

A game like Bully however.... yeah, no. Killing should never be in that. Especially in these times. That's the same reason a school got cut from GTA V from what I remember.

 

 

A nice alternative to getting around invincible kids, just despawn them once the violence starts. That way you don't accidentally get Game Over tossing dynamite into a saloon or something ridiculous like that. I understand why that rule applied to John's family in the first one.... but getting you game over because a kid runs into the way of a train or gets in the way of dynamite is a bit harsh

Edited by Shadowfennekin
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BretMaverick777

Observations.

 

1.  If you feel the need to deliberately abuse and murder kids in a video game, I sincerely believe you're f*cked in the head and I want no part of you in my online or offline life.

2.  OTOH, Rockstar is hardly in any position to claim any fake moral high ground.  GTA is infamous for making the abuse and murder of sex workers a running joke.  I really want to see RDR2 treat prostitutes with a real degree of respect for a change.  Hookers were just making a living and were pretty much a vital industry to service and support the mental health and well-being of a frontier that was overwhelmingly male.  As "Unforgiven" accurately illustrated, it was unheard of and totally unacceptable for a man to "cut up a whore." I hope to hell the beating up hookers GTA tradition is literally shot dead on arrival in RDR2.

3. By a similar token, if you want "realism" when it comes to murdering kids, you should also "realistically" expect to be Public Enemy #1 and hunted down by lawman and civilian alike for that evil.  Hell, even Dutch's Gang would cut you loose and leave your corpse for the buzzards.

 

4.  Finally, for a comment that ISN'T about killing kids:   as children are added to the RDR2 population, we should also expect to see more schools go up in towns.  Armadillo was a childless town in RDR1, yet the classic one-room schoolhouse was there.   Certainly hope to see those iconic buildings in Valentine and Rhodes, as well as bigger schools and playgrounds in the metropolis of St Denis. 

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SAS_Intruder

I may be a wuss, but I have always had an issue killing civilians or anyone innocent in any of the games I have played for last 25 years. It just feels wrong,  and I can't do it expect where it happens as accident. And killing kids? That is something I would avoid doing at any cost, even though it is just a video game.

Edited by SAS_Intruder
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Cutter De Blanc

I wonder if these kids are just gonna be like the Strange Man where my bullets go right through them

for some reason I get the impression that if you try to lasso one it'll just go through the kid, like when you try to lasso a Buffalo

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berzelmayr
12 hours ago, Shadowfennekin said:

That was to be expected, they're different models from adults.


I just hope they aren't invincible or instant game over. Kids work in games like Assassins Creed because you're not supposed to go around killing innocents, you'll get unsynched(Game over) after killing a few civilians. But in games involving killing, stealing, and all sort of other stuff.... kids shouldn't be in if they can't die.

Hm... but weren't we told that Dutch has the ambition to be something like a Robin Hood of his times? If Arthur agrees with that, they why should we expect him to be some psycho, who just kills anyone? I think there's people, who expect this game to be a lot like GTA V with these over the top characters and events, though it's obvious that R* wants to create a very different experience now, one that is more in tone with classic western movies and series.

 

Quote

It's just so immersion breaking when you slaughter a whole town and little Timmy is running around screaming and unable to die.

Will they ever "slaughter a whole town"? Maybe a more cynical guy like perhaps Micah Bell would do that, but I don't think the rest of the gang wants to.

 

I'd say messages like "you've reached the end of the map" are much more immersion breaking than not being able to kill anyone in this game.  That's just an example for a luxury problem ("This kid is so annoying, I want to shoot him in the head!")

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pedrohvg
10 hours ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Observations.

 

1.  If you feel the need to deliberately abuse and murder kids in a video game, I sincerely believe you're f*cked in the head and I want no part of you in my online or offline life.

2.  OTOH, Rockstar is hardly in any position to claim any fake moral high ground.  GTA is infamous for making the abuse and murder of sex workers a running joke.  I really want to see RDR2 treat prostitutes with a real degree of respect for a change.  Hookers were just making a living and were pretty much a vital industry to service and support the mental health and well-being of a frontier that was overwhelmingly male.  As "Unforgiven" accurately illustrated, it was unheard of and totally unacceptable for a man to "cut up a whore." I hope to hell the beating up hookers GTA tradition is literally shot dead on arrival in RDR2.

3. By a similar token, if you want "realism" when it comes to murdering kids, you should also "realistically" expect to be Public Enemy #1 and hunted down by lawman and civilian alike for that evil.  Hell, even Dutch's Gang would cut you loose and leave your corpse for the buzzards.

 

4.  Finally, for a comment that ISN'T about killing kids:   as children are added to the RDR2 population, we should also expect to see more schools go up in towns.  Armadillo was a childless town in RDR1, yet the classic one-room schoolhouse was there.   Certainly hope to see those iconic buildings in Valentine and Rhodes, as well as bigger schools and playgrounds in the metropolis of St Denis. 

Man, I entirely disagree about your 1st. I don't want to be close to someone who has a desire to kill children, or any human being, in real life, but in videogame? I'm a normal guy here in Brazil, never commit any kind of crime, I have a normal social life and a good job (for the brazilian standards). I have a cousin who is a regular person, but younger, he is in college, studying mathematics and we share the same view about it. We both like to test everything in vg, in just cause, for instance, it's fun to destroy everything, kill everyone. I really cannot understand how someone thinks that kill dogs, cows, horses, innocent adults walking on the streets, police officers, innocent woman, prostitutes, with guns, molotovs (hearing they scream and burn), granades, kill them with car, moto, tank, it's fun and normal and part of the game (like gta) but killing children it's HORRIBLE, UNBELIEVABLE, f*ckED IN THE HEAD, CRAZY, PSYCO, and etc. Really? Killing everything else is nice, but if rockstar add children you are going to cry and bitch about for a bunch of pixels? 

 

Please, I would understand if you guys say "hey, I dont like to kill anyone, I think the rockstar games are really violent and npcs should be invencible like in spider-man". Ok, I would disagree, but I will see logic in your opinions.

 

For me it's not about "killing children", it's about the game allows everything, every possibility, and the consequences, like a family try to revenge, a mom try to protect her children, your mates reprimand you, all of it. And IF you want to do that, it's your problem, if you never going to kill children or anyone, ok, it's your problem too, you are going to act according to your own values in the game if you want. But please, someone explain that to me, why children in videogame (a lot of pixels) are so controversial and all the other kind of violence and killings (in movies, games, etc) are allowed?

 

Edited by pedrohvg
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OfficialTwiggz

Posted this on reddit about the same topic, so here goes:

 

I just honestly don’t see the point. They aren’t mission based, they’re not holding onto thousands of dollars, which as an outlaw, you’re after the almighty dollar, not a child pelt.

There’s absolutely no reason why, lawfully or unlawfully, you would kill a child, unless you’re deranged. I’m prepared for the downvotes, but I’m stating facts. No stable unlawful person, whom is a right hand man in a notorious gang, will follow hits out on children, with a gang or without one.

If there’s a mission, where we run into a town, and murder everyone in sight, women and children included, then, that’s something I’m gonna have to think about. I think having a child in the gang will bring a certain moral against child killing, personally.

 

think about it from a story based standpoint.

At what point did the writers go “you know, they’re planning on introducing children into this video game, the first of many R* titles to do so. How to we proceed with Morgan and the players actions? Do we let the player kill them, or do we build a story around as to why you cannot?”

Some, like you, would say “well it’s a game, I like blood and I should be able to shoot a child in the head for no reason”

And other, more logical responses, from a narrative standpoint would say “Maybe we shouldn’t give them access to do so, because 1. A child is being looked after in the gang, 2. What does killing a child have to offer, except for the purpose of “just doing it”, and 3. I’m sure the writers created Arthur as being sensible than the average mid-30 year old who wants to kill things for fun in 2018. Point blank, it’s not sensible, lawfully or unlawfully to murder a child, a CHILD, for the self gratification that you just can. Sorry, but I just don’t feel the writers intended this. You’re an outlaw for the cause of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, and keeping your gang alive, happy, and well fed.

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BretMaverick777
1 hour ago, pedrohvg said:

Man, I entirely disagree about your 1st. I don't want to be close to someone who has a desire to kill children, or any human being, in real life, but in videogame? I'm a normal guy here in Brazil, never commit any kind of crime, I have a normal social life and a good job (for the brazilian standards). I have a cousin who is a regular person, but younger, he is in college, studying mathematics and we share the same view about it. We both like to test everything in vg, in just cause, for instance, it's fun to destroy everything, kill everyone. I really cannot understand how someone thinks that kill dogs, cows, horses, innocent adults walking on the streets, police officers, innocent woman, prostitutes, with guns, molotovs (hearing they scream and burn), granades, kill them with car, moto, tank, it's fun and normal and part of the game (like gta) but killing children it's HORRIBLE, UNBELIEVABLE, f*ckED IN THE HEAD, CRAZY, PSYCO, and etc. Really? Killing everything else is nice, but if rockstar add children you are going to cry and bitch about for a bunch of pixels? 

 

Please, I would understand if you guys say "hey, I dont like to kill anyone, I think the rockstar games are really violent and npcs should be invencible like in spider-man". Ok, I would disagree, but I will see logic in your opinions.

 

For me it's not about "killing children", it's about the game allows everything, every possibility, and the consequences, like a family try to revenge, a mom try to protect her children, your mates reprimand you, all of it. And IF you want to do that, it's your problem, if you never going to kill children or anyone, ok, it's your problem too, you are going to act according to your own values in the game if you want. But please, someone explain that to me, why children in videogame (a lot of pixels) are so controversial and all the other kind of violence and killings (in movies, games, etc) are allowed?

 

Because a child is young, innocent, naive, helpless, defenseless, and blindly trusts in the goodness of grownups to help *them* grow up.

 

So if you see that, in real life or in fiction, and still feel the urge to kill that child...you're f*cked in the head.

End of discussion at my end.

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