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Wingate167

I finished GTA IV just now (Thoughts)

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Wingate167
Posted (edited)

It's been a while since I've been on the forums, but I just finished GTA IV on Xbox One since the Xbox 360 game is Backwards Compatible. It was really an interesting story and character. It was neat to see America through Niko's eyes as well as a satire on the American Dream. Niko is a person who is haunted by what went on with his life and has trouble adjusting to American life while handling other problems. I didn't do 100% completion because I felt the rewards weren't worth it. I did mostly everything except for the pigeon shooting and the unique jumps. The radio stations were really good in this one. My favorites were LCR, the Journey and Radio Broker.

 

The segments on LCR were hilarious especially the debates on things. Lazlow really goes to more lows in the HD Era than he did in the 3D era with Integrity 2.0. There was also a song from Pure Moods on The Journey that I noticed as I was driving around.

 

In regards to choices, I spared Dwayne because I felt sorry for him and Playboy was just an arrogant jerk. I also chose to kill Derrick because he didn't have anything going for him. In regards to the last choice, I got Revenge. I couldn't trust Roman with money because he kept getting himself into debt and in trouble. I hated Dimitri. It's a shame Kate died, but she was just too whiny and just saw Niko as a friend. I spared Darko because I saw he would die eventually from his habits.

 

I found Niko to be an interesting character again given how he's from a different background than the GTA protagonists that we had before GTA IV.

 

What I didn't like: Friends are clingy and whiny and call you at random times when I'm on a mission or call too many times. The driving is too wonky and the weapons seemed basic. They remind me a lot of the weapons from GTA 3 and some parts of places reminded me of Liberty City from GTA 3. I saw the same thing for GTA 5 when going through Los Santos. The driving was very wonky.

 

This game definitely set the format for GTA 5 though in terms of the Internet and phone.

 

I will eventually get to the two episodes, Lost and Damned and The Ballad of Gay Tony, once I have more time.

 

Ironically, Roman never asked me to go with bowling with him. I guess that's from the mission where you're watching the drug dealers for Jacob.

 

I never found a game to move me that much since Red Dead Redemption.

 

Overall, a good game.

Edited by Wingate167
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Hmmm nice bike
4 hours ago, Wingate167 said:

In regards to choices, I spared Dwayne because I felt sorry for him and Playboy was just an arrogant jerk. I also chose to kill Derrick because he didn't have anything going for him. In regards to the last choice, I got Revenge. I couldn't trust Roman with money because he kept getting himself into debt and in trouble. I hated Dimitri. It's a shame Kate died, but she was just too whiny and just saw Niko as a friend. I spared Darko because I saw he would die eventually from his habits.

Derrick aside (I always killed Francis, but then both McReary brothers were really not good people, so I never thought it made much of a difference if you spare one or the other), you definitely made the right choices. If you killed Dwayne, Playboy calls you up and blames you for murdering his mentor despite him ordering it, and basically twists it into being your fault. You also don't get his sweet safehouse. And Kate was always a whiny character, if you know what happens if you choose to do the deal then you'd also know that you made the right choice.

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TheSantader25
16 minutes ago, Hmmm nice bike said:

Derrick aside (I always killed Francis, but then both McReary brothers were really not good people, so I never thought it made much of a difference if you spare one or the other), you definitely made the right choices. If you killed Dwayne, Playboy calls you up and blames you for murdering his mentor despite him ordering it, and basically twists it into being your fault. You also don't get his sweet safehouse. And Kate was always a whiny character, if you know what happens if you choose to do the deal then you'd also know that you made the right choice.

I always kill Derrick. He is a stupid junky that needs others to save his ass. Sure both Brothers are awful but Derrick is the worst IMO. also poor aiden... 

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Algonquin Assassin

Glad you enjoyed it buddy. It's a masterpiece.🙂

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GiveMeLiberty78
Posted (edited)

I see I'm not alone in revisiting this masterpiece. In aviation, we say it's the "aviation bug", maybe there is the "GTAIV bug"? Actually I think part of that is called nostalgia, at least for returning players. I am about to replay the PC version since shelving it about 7 years ago (I only uninstalled it 3 years ago for my rebuild).

GTAIV definitely has a strong, dark, gritty atmosphere that many players - PC especially because of higher-resolution graphics, modding, etc. - pick up on quite quickly and remember strongly. I find mouse and keyboard so much more accurate for shooting and even driving compared to consoles, but that's just what I am used to. I kinda skimmed some of your post @Wingate167 because although I played some of the story 7 years ago, I barely did any of it so I try to avoid spoilers - the story was very rich from what I recall and very believable (maybe relatable, but not sure how many people here can identify with such a complex character?).

I'll try to post some screenshots as I progress. Also, I wonder if it's worth hitting up some of those Algonquin Assassinations?

Oh and about your comparisons to GTAV: You're right, IV's driving is difficult but I find it more realistic than GTA5's driving in hindsight. It's interesting to think about the best of GTAs IV and V and to imagine how they could make GTAVI look and feel. Just thinking about it I practically pee my pants with excitment! Perhaps is Six things will be different, eh?

Edited by manana500

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Arrows to Athens
Posted (edited)

This game's story I can play hundreds of times and still not get bored.

 

Oh, and I suggest you check out whatever57010's "All Possibilities" series. Here, you will see everything that can happen during the missions, what happens when you fail in different ways, the various dialogues... and everything else that you wouldn't take the time to find out yourself. It's very interesting, especially the fail dialogues and the whacky sh*t that goes on when you do stuff in certain ways that weren't intended or taken into mind by the developers.

 

Link: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8E0_qbRVNvSYjuq9PpPWzBix5w1188BO

Edited by Arrows to Athens

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GiveMeLiberty78

Haha, thanks for that @Arrows to Athens, what a great watch! I was testing some graphics settings a few days ago and played the second mission, going to the poker game in Schottler. Well, I managed to spook the loan sharks accidentally and I thought that might be another way to pass the mission. Clearly I was wrong. But I had no idea you could trash the car and take the bus home! whatever57010 has a lot of patience to selflessly fail all of the missions in so many spectacular ways.

I've spent the past week tweaking/tuning the game here and there, now I am ready to restart my playthrough on v1.0.4.0. I'm pleased that many of my old scripts designed for v1.0.7.0 also work here too. Niiice. Oh yes, theft, HD steaks, pigeon-shooting and bowling here we come! (I like to do as many of the side missions as possible. Also, has anyone here ever tried to play without the HUD during missions? I mean, Rockstar do always include a big shiny map for getting around.)

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MARKUS.

How is it possible that you played the classics, GTA V but you never touched GTA IV?

 

 

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GiveMeLiberty78
Posted (edited)

Good question MARKUS. In two words? Bad port. (And I don't mean no fortified wine!)

With hindsight, I am surprised I bothered at all, at the time - compared with the simple natural ENB mod running on v1.0.4.0, GTAIV looks so much more realistic and elegant, where previously (vanilla install + upgrade to v1.0.7.0) everything looked so grey, washed out and pixelated. Sure that look kinda fits the story's theme but it is a bit too much like Tupperware-o-vision, plus everything just looks so terrible without anti-aliasing. I am not even using HD city textures (just DKT70's HD roads) and everything looks hugely improved. Two notes: 1) I actually can't run the HD city textures because Liberty City disappears thanks to the invisible world/memory leak problem; 2) I de-saturated the ENB colors using sweetFX (in the above ENB link for anyone interested) to -0.25, because otherwise Hove Beach looked like it was pissed off its tits on acid!

But now, GTAIV looks realistic, runs rather well considering its age and inherent flaws, and I cannot wait to go through the storyline bowling. I think at the time, GTAIV was a bit dirty and gritty compared to San Andreas and Vice City. Maybe it's me that's changed? On that philosophical note, let me tell you what really prompted me to return: The Journey. Kifflom was weird but The Journey, now that I can get into.

Edit: Ironically, I have just begun my journey through Liberty City. I posted some screenshots here to capture the mood. This is why I so desperately wanted to come back!

Edited by manana500
Screenshot links added

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ThatBenGuy

I’m glad you enjoyed it and took the time to play such a masterpiece man. :)

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Penguin Bob

I'm glad that you enjoyed the game! If you ever get the chance, you should play Episodes From Liberty City. Trust me, you will enjoy that game as well!

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GiveMeLiberty78

Cheers guys and thanks for the suggestion. I'll be playing through GTAIV for a long time I reckon, but I'm definitely tempted to get EFLC.

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Wingate167
On 7/23/2018 at 1:40 PM, MARKUS. said:

How is it possible that you played the classics, GTA V but you never touched GTA IV?

 

 

I forgot to mention that I played GTA 4 when it came out, but didn't touch it since then. So essentially 10 years, I decided to do it after finishing 3, VC and SA close to a year with 100% for all/

On 7/22/2018 at 12:36 AM, Hmmm nice bike said:

Derrick aside (I always killed Francis, but then both McReary brothers were really not good people, so I never thought it made much of a difference if you spare one or the other), you definitely made the right choices. If you killed Dwayne, Playboy calls you up and blames you for murdering his mentor despite him ordering it, and basically twists it into being your fault. You also don't get his sweet safehouse. And Kate was always a whiny character, if you know what happens if you choose to do the deal then you'd also know that you made the right choice.

In regards to the safehouse from Playboy X, I did like there was Claude's outfit from GTA 3. I spent the rest of that game wearing that.

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Official General
Posted (edited)
On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 3:56 PM, manana500 said:

I see I'm not alone in revisiting this masterpiece. In aviation, we say it's the "aviation bug", maybe there is the "GTAIV bug"? Actually I think part of that is called nostalgia, at least for returning players. I am about to replay the PC version since shelving it about 7 years ago (I only uninstalled it 3 years ago for my rebuild).

GTAIV definitely has a strong, dark, gritty atmosphere that many players - PC especially because of higher-resolution graphics, modding, etc. - pick up on quite quickly and remember strongly. I find mouse and keyboard so much more accurate for shooting and even driving compared to consoles, but that's just what I am used to. I kinda skimmed some of your post @Wingate167 because although I played some of the story 7 years ago, I barely did any of it so I try to avoid spoilers - the story was very rich from what I recall and very believable (maybe relatable, but not sure how many people here can identify with such a complex character?).

I'll try to post some screenshots as I progress. Also, I wonder if it's worth hitting up some of those Algonquin Assassinations?

Oh and about your comparisons to GTAV: You're right, IV's driving is difficult but I find it more realistic than GTA5's driving in hindsight. It's interesting to think about the best of GTAs IV and V and to imagine how they could make GTAVI look and feel. Just thinking about it I practically pee my pants with excitment! Perhaps is Six things will be different, eh?

You should played IV modded on PC this time, its much better. And use an ENB too. 

 

EDIT: just seen you have done all that, cool

Edited by Official General

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killso
Posted (edited)

I've also just finished it a few weeks ago, I don't know what to think about it honestly.

I've never been a fan of the story, even from the beginning of it ( which was why I never finished it ).

And now, I've mixed feeling about it, It took me 20 hours to understand that there were secondary missions ... Which made me lose ton of time because I wanted to finish the main story first.

However, tbogt always interested me for some reasons, so this is the next one on my list.

 

EDIT : forgot to say, I was playing GTA IV way before the release of GTA V ( but I can't remember if I bought it the year of the release or just a bit after , I think it was in 2009), it's just that i never finished, and I was just driving in the city or doing races online.

Edited by killso

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GiveMeLiberty78
Posted (edited)

Welcome back then @Wingate167!

I think Liberty City is the sort of place where you can do just that @killso - it has such a believable atmosphere, I can even just walk for a long time. Maybe I am wrong here but footsteps seem louder in GTAIV. I work in psychology so I know that maybe it is an illusion and Niko / Roman / bowling / pedestrians yelling "cheesy vaginas!" have got inside my head or something! I think the story was largely embraced by fans but I also read some love-hate reactions.

@Official General, here are some screenshots I made on my first day off the boat. "A picture can say a thousand words." I'll add more throughout The Journey. By the way, without ENB + SweetFX I would ditch the game like radioactive waste. Maybe that's shallow, like dating Barbara just for her big titties or calling Stephanie only because she sucks like a vacuum, haha! But fortunately people had the skill and patience to make GTAIV (re-)playable in my opinion. Also, look: finger-less gloves!

A.jpg

I also made some friends, though one of them wasn't too pleased to see me.

88f150.jpg

Edited by manana500

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Official General

@ manana500

 

I'm using CryENB v3.....yours looks similar to that.

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GiveMeLiberty78
Posted (edited)

Yeah, they do look similar. I use Simple/natural ENB + SweetFX because I read that it tends to be more performance-friendly than CryENB and because ENB runs best with v1.0.4.0 (I run that version because I also read it is most performance-friendly). I'd be interested to know what is your experience with CryENB. Any interesting screenshots?

After-thought: Perhaps ENB should consider a new slogan: "Making Liberty City great again!"

Edited by manana500

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Official General
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, manana500 said:

Yeah, they do look similar. I use Simple/natural ENB + SweetFX because I read that it tends to be more performance-friendly than CryENB and because ENB runs best with v1.0.4.0 (I run that version because I also read it is most performance-friendly). I'd be interested to know what is your experience with CryENB. Any interesting screenshots?

After-thought: Perhaps ENB should consider a new slogan: "Making Liberty City great again!"

Hmmmmm you got me interested now......do you suggest I use v1.0.4.0 ? Will it work best with all the script mods and all the rest ? If so, I will try it with the ENB you recommended.

 

CryEnNB v3 looks great, but it does stutter here and there. Bearable with decent stable fps, but stutters a little bit, and this should not happen as my PC is more than powerful enough to run it smooth. I've even got a 2k monitor at 144fps. Right now I'm using v.1.0.7.0 with CryENB 3, but if you can confirm the scripts work with  v1.0.4.0 then I'm trying that instead !

Edited by Official General

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GiveMeLiberty78
Posted (edited)

Well, I have read across the internet that ENB was designed to work best with v1.0.4.0 because apparently, ENB can actually access whatever code it needs in that version; subsequent versions can run ENB, but that code changed. This is my non-technical understanding of the matter.

The ENB preset I linked above works with v1.0.4.0 for me. To give you some context, I run GTAIV on a Windows 8.1 PC, 1TB SSD, 16GB DDR3 RAM, Intel i7 4790K (base 4.4GHz; not overclocked) CPU, and a Radeon R9 380 4GB VRAM (also not overclocked). I have generally good frame rates, I estimate from 30 minimum to as many as 60fps+ (I use a monitor at 1920 x 1080 resolution, 60Hz). Usually I reckon I achieve about 40-50fps but I don't use recording equipment, I disable clip capture in-game and I make sure my computer is running super-lean (anti-virus = in silent mode, no browsers, nothing, nada).

Cautionary note though: I've also read across the internet that GTAIV can experience poor fps regardless of your PC and what version and other mods you use (it was badly ported and uses old 'code'; it's a 10 year-old game now, geez that makes me feel old!). I've also read that stutters - or rather, micro-stutters - can occur where the game briefly stops then starts; it's brief but noticeable and a total turn-off! FPS issues and stuttering can occur on all versions, but I've read that v1.0.4.0 has generally the best performance and that this version best suits ENB mods. Apparently v1.0.7.0 resolved some shadow issues to boost performance there, but ENB and v1.0.4.0 provide the best combination for stability and performance.

! Backup your current install and files before you change anything. (Probably this goes without saying.)

Finally, I'd say yeah sure, try v1.0.4.0. but everybody's experience differs so nothing is guaranteed. Which other scripts do you use? I can confirm the following scripts work with v1.0.4.0 for me, even though they may say "designed for / tested with v1.0.7.0":
 


I know, they're odd scripts but I like them and I am adding more soon. So far nothing has broken!

Edit: I can get fps slow down when looking across or in the direction of Algonquin but that is brief and not a stutter. Also, I must set set draw distance and detail distance to 50/100 each to achieve pretty good and stable fps, with Vsync forced on unless application says otherwise in my GPU settings + Vsynch = ON in game. Turning Vsynch OFF did not gain noticeable fps for me but it did create 'tearing' so I kept it ON.
 

I hope this helps. I find that after installing GTAIV (a nightmare), there then comes the nightmare of tweaking to perfection (analysis paralysis, too many choices!). But, for me it was worth it, hopefully you get a stable result whatever you decide. Good luck, let me know how things go.

Edited by manana500

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Official General
1 hour ago, manana500 said:

Well, I have read across the internet that ENB was designed to work best with v1.0.4.0 because apparently, ENB can actually access whatever code it needs in that version; subsequent versions can run ENB, but that code changed. This is my non-technical understanding of the matter.

The ENB preset I linked above works with v1.0.4.0 for me. To give you some context, I run GTAIV on a Windows 8.1 PC, 1TB SSD, 16GB DDR3 RAM, Intel i7 4790K (base 4.4GHz; not overclocked) CPU, and a Radeon R9 380 4GB VRAM (also not overclocked). I have generally good frame rates, I estimate from 30 minimum to as many as 60fps+ (I use a monitor at 1920 x 1080 resolution, 60Hz). Usually I reckon I achieve about 40-50fps but I don't use recording equipment, I disable clip capture in-game and I make sure my computer is running super-lean (anti-virus = in silent mode, no browsers, nothing, nada).

Cautionary note though: I've also read across the internet that GTAIV can experience poor fps regardless of your PC and what version and other mods you use (it was badly ported and uses old 'code'; it's a 10 year-old game now, geez that makes me feel old!). I've also read that stutters - or rather, micro-stutters - can occur where the game briefly stops then starts; it's brief but noticeable and a total turn-off! FPS issues and stuttering can occur on all versions, but I've read that v1.0.4.0 has generally the best performance and that this version best suits ENB mods. Apparently v1.0.7.0 resolved some shadow issues to boost performance there, but ENB and v1.0.4.0 provide the best combination for stability and performance.

! Backup your current install and files before you change anything. (Probably this goes without saying.)

Finally, I'd say yeah sure, try v1.0.4.0. but everybody's experience differs so nothing is guaranteed. Which other scripts do you use? I can confirm the following scripts work with v1.0.4.0 for me, even though they may say "designed for / tested with v1.0.7.0":
 


I know, they're odd scripts but I like them and I am adding more soon. So far nothing has broken!

Edit: I can get fps slow down when looking across or in the direction of Algonquin but that is brief and not a stutter. Also, I must set set draw distance and detail distance to 50/100 each to achieve pretty good and stable fps, with Vsync forced on unless application says otherwise in my GPU settings + Vsynch = ON in game. Turning Vsynch OFF did not gain noticeable fps for me but it did create 'tearing' so I kept it ON.
 

I hope this helps. I find that after installing GTAIV (a nightmare), there then comes the nightmare of tweaking to perfection (analysis paralysis, too many choices!). But, for me it was worth it, hopefully you get a stable result whatever you decide. Good luck, let me know how things go.

Thanks, gonna try it out. My version  v1.0.7.0 has been backed up, gonna see what this brings. 

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Official General
Posted (edited)

@ manana500

 

Tried it, you're right, version v1.0.4.0. runs a lot smoother than v.1.0.7.0, and even with the Sweet ENB. However, CryENB v3 is still better, it has much better lighting, shadows and darkness. I'm gonna see if v1.0.4.0. works with CryENB v3, its such a dilemma, they do both look great !

 

EDIT: Right tried both. CryENB v3 looks better, because the nights are darker and lighting is better. SweetENB looks too bright at night, the streets of LC have to be dark and gritty for me. Also v.1.0.4.0 keeps crashing with the scripts I use, whereas v.1.0.7.0 works fine with them (no surprise as they were mainly made for it). Sweet ENB looks great in daytime though, wish I could have used it. 

 

So back to v.1.0.7.0 it is for me !

Edited by Official General

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GiveMeLiberty78

It's a shame about the crashing you experienced but yeah, not much of a surprise. At least CryENB ran well with v1.0.4.0, but sometimes we have to trade one thing for another with this game.

Could you send me a link to the CryENB version you use please? I'll try it with v1.0.4.0 for stability + performance. Although I like my current ENB preset, if I can achieve darker nights and that more gritty look then I'll switch. That's the thing with GTAIV, you have to be prepared to shop around a bit! Thanks.

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Official General
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, manana500 said:

It's a shame about the crashing you experienced but yeah, not much of a surprise. At least CryENB ran well with v1.0.4.0, but sometimes we have to trade one thing for another with this game.

Could you send me a link to the CryENB version you use please? I'll try it with v1.0.4.0 for stability + performance. Although I like my current ENB preset, if I can achieve darker nights and that more gritty look then I'll switch. That's the thing with GTAIV, you have to be prepared to shop around a bit! Thanks.

Yeah sure: https://www.gtaall.com/gta-4/mods/53509-cryenb-v3.html

 

CryENB v3 to me is the best of them all and I've tried a good number. It allows the game to retain its original look, but with very sharp, detailed and realistic effect graphics. The visual effects and lighting are stunning too....the only issue is that your fps can take a slight hit here and there during gameplay, but it's bearable and generally not always noticeable. The best thing is to play around with your PC settings to see which one gives you the most stable performance. 

 

Let me know how you get on !

 

Edited by Official General

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GiveMeLiberty78
8 hours ago, Official General said:

Yeah sure: https://www.gtaall.com/gta-4/mods/53509-cryenb-v3.html

 

CryENB v3 to me is the best of them all and I've tried a good number. It allows the game to retain its original look, but with very sharp, detailed and realistic effect graphics. The visual effects and lighting are stunning too....the only issue is that your fps can take a slight hit here and there during gameplay, but it's bearable and generally not always noticeable. The best thing is to play around with your PC settings to see which one gives you the most stable performance. 

 

Let me know how you get on !

 

Wunderbar, thank you Official General, I will give it a go this weekend and see what results I get. I think we all have to accept some fps problems with GTAIV - I'm grateful that I could install it all. Getting ENB and SweetFX to work is a much-needed bonus.

Out of interest, can/do you run any texture packs? I use HD vegetation (part of which is part of the simple/natural ENB package, but not sure how it is actually different) and HD roads but I cannot get HD city textures to work - all I get is the invisible city/missing textures issue. Although, I don't think it would run well with even more textures to load, plus ENB + SweetFX are so good that the city textures look detailed and sharp enough.

Definitely I will let you know how I get on!

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Official General
Posted (edited)

 

2 hours ago, manana500 said:

Wunderbar, thank you Official General, I will give it a go this weekend and see what results I get. I think we all have to accept some fps problems with GTAIV - I'm grateful that I could install it all. Getting ENB and SweetFX to work is a much-needed bonus.

Out of interest, can/do you run any texture packs? I use HD vegetation (part of which is part of the simple/natural ENB package, but not sure how it is actually different) and HD roads but I cannot get HD city textures to work - all I get is the invisible city/missing textures issue. Although, I don't think it would run well with even more textures to load, plus ENB + SweetFX are so good that the city textures look detailed and sharp enough.

Definitely I will let you know how I get on!

Yeah you can, I did try the HD vegetation too, but the truth is, CryENB v3 is so good you don't need any HD texture packs. However it is highly recommended you use this mod with it for the vehicles in IV https://www.gtagaming.com/hd-metallic-car-paint-f28145.html 

 

I use it with CryENB v3 myself and it really does add that extra difference of brilliance to the cars - they look even good enough to rival the cars in GTA V's graphics in some instances. 

Edited by Official General

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Tycek

Would you mind getting this conversation to PMs? It's a bit of topic and differentiates from what OP had in mind I believe.

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GiveMeLiberty78
Posted (edited)

Yeah I reckon we're probably about done here from the technical standpoint, although we did expand a bit upon the original poster's "what In didn't like" with some discussion and possible solutions (ENB being one of them). Thanks @Official General, I will try those enhancements and let you know what happens (anything sparkly and shiny usually titilates me, haha!).

Out of interest @Wingate167 and everybody else, how do you think you would rate GTA 4 if you had only played it after playing GTA 5? I ask because I completed <10% of GTA 4 about 8 years ago on PC, so it's practically a 'new' game to me but I beat GTA 5 about 2 years ago.

Edited by manana500

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Official General
12 hours ago, Tycek said:

Would you mind getting this conversation to PMs? It's a bit of topic and differentiates from what OP had in mind I believe.

Fair enough but it would be nice if you could also have actually contributed a post to the topic itself rather than solely post to moan (no disrespect intended). 

 

4 hours ago, manana500 said:

Yeah I reckon we're probably about done here from the technical standpoint, although we did expand a bit upon the original poster's "what In didn't like" with some discussion and possible solutions (ENB being one of them). Thanks @Official General, I will try those enhancements and let you know what happens (anything sparkly and shiny usually titilates me, haha!).

Out of interest @Wingate167 and everybody else, how do you think you would rate GTA 4 if you had only played it after playing GTA 5? I ask because I completed <10% of GTA 4 about 8 years ago on PC, so it's practically a 'new' game to me but I beat GTA 5 about 2 years ago.

Done that already and I believe IV is just the better game barring the technical advancements in V. I concluded that a year after V first came out. IV & EFLC gets 9 and V (even with Online) gets 7.5. 

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Tycek

So politely asking question is considered moaning now? Nice. I would gladly contribute to this topic, if it wasn't turned into ENB circlejerk (no offence), because I never used any kind of visual enhancer for GTA IV, as its basic looks was enough for me. I still think the game looks nice, after all these years. It may not be the nicest game on the market, but it still has that magic that made me love it 10 years ago.

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