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AndyGanteks

🇷🇺 FIFA World Cup 2018 🇷🇺

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Tchuck

Since you dug this up:

 

Quote

If it really happens "France would never win the world cup without Africa" how come no african country never won this competition?

Because most of the good players get coopted by other nations, that's why. And because they also don't have the funds to develop football at home thanks to colonial powers sentencing them to failure, that's why. There's a lot of blood on your country's hands, specially of the African variety. If you look at the best French players in recent years, a very large portion of them will be children of immigrants.

 

sh*t, the man responsible for bringing you your first title was the son of Algerian migrants. If it wasn't for Africa, you wouldn't have him. Or Mbappe. Or Dembele. Or several others making up your starting line up. To refuse to acknowledge the Africa in France is misguided and ignorant at best. 

 

Quote

By the way France is the country where 50 world cup players were born making my country the frst provider of WC footballers roughly speaking.

So? Brazil is the country where 5 whole teams who won the world cup were from. I don't get this "first provider of WC footballers" statement.

 

Quote

These declarations about Africa having won the world cup with french shirts looks more like a piece of baldy placed pride from frustrated racists than anything else.

Those refusing to acknowledge Africa's influence in your team winning the world cup, are far, far worse.

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Wolver_321

In my opinion Africa had a marginal influence in the French team... It's more than clear that a lot of players have african origins, but I think we're forgetting the nation where those players grew up. Now I don't know all the stories behind every player, but I think that a lot of them grew up in France, played in French teams (of Ligue 1, Ligue 2 etc.) when they were young and they were educated with European/French culture and traditions.

For what other national team could those guys play for? For the ones of their parents (countries that probably they've never seen) or for France?

What I don't like is "swapping passports" which is a thing that many athletes have done during the last years for having an easier way: I remember that, a few years ago, our Football Federation gave the oppotunity to Paulo Dybala to have an Italian passport so he could play with the Italian team, but he decided to mantain his Argentinian passport. 

 

I agree on all points that @Evil empire explained, except for one (that probably I haven't understood): how can France be the 1st provider of WC champions if there are other national teams that won more WCs?

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Evil empire
On 7/22/2018 at 7:44 AM, Tchuck said:

Since you dug this up:

 

Because most of the good players get coopted by other nations, that's why. And because they also don't have the funds to develop football at home thanks to colonial powers sentencing them to failure, that's why. There's a lot of blood on your country's hands, specially of the African variety. If you look at the best French players in recent years, a very large portion of them will be children of immigrants.

 

sh*t, the man responsible for bringing you your first title was the son of Algerian migrants. If it wasn't for Africa, you wouldn't have him. Or Mbappe. Or Dembele. Or several others making up your starting line up. To refuse to acknowledge the Africa in France is misguided and ignorant at best.

Yes many French players have african origins which are colonization-related.

Yes they would probably play in african teams if the colonists didn't loot their wealth as much.

But anyway the great majority of them was born, grew up in France and except if I'm wrong were trained in France. This victory is also a revelator of a french savoir-faire in football training. A diamond reaches its maximum value when you sculpt it so it reveals all its brilliance and since France took part to half of the finals during the 6 latest world cups and won 2 the conclusion is France has a superior skill in creating great players.

Many other teams have a good number of players coming from Africa, former colonies or other 3rd world countries too poor to train football players the ideal way but none of them has been as great as France during the latest 20 years of world cups.

 

Quote

So? Brazil is the country where 5 whole teams who won the world cup were from. I don't get this "first provider of WC footballers" statement.

I mean if we take a look to the list of players who were born outside of the country they play for, France is number 1 with 50 of them.

 

Quote

Those refusing to acknowledge Africa's influence in your team winning the world cup, are far, far worse.

To make it short and except if I'm wrong Africa provides raw diamonds and France carves them the best way hence the fact the Blues are overall the best football team in the world if we look in the last 20 years of world cups.

Edited by Evil empire

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Tchuck
3 hours ago, Evil empire said:

Yes many French players have african origins which are colonization-related.

Yes they would probably play in african teams if the colonists didn't loot their wealth as much.

So then you agree that if it wasn't for Africa providing that "raw material", France wouldn't have been as successful?

 

Quote

A diamond reaches its maximum value when you sculpt it so it reveals all its brilliance and since France took part to half of the finals during the 6 latest world cups and won 2 the conclusion is France has a superior skill in creating great players.

Why the arbitrary "6 latest world cups"? That's a very biased ways of putting things. Look through the history of all world cups, or don't do such a comparison. Oh I guess because if you look back through all the world cups, French's "superior skill in creating great players" isn't as superior anymore, right? Pray tell; how many French players have won the Ballon d'Or in the past 20 years? (hint: 1)

 

Quote

I mean if we take a look to the list of players who were born outside of the country they play for, France is number 1 with 50 of them.

So then you agree that if it wasn't for Africa providing that "raw material", France wouldn't have been as successful? x2

 

Quote

To make it short and except if I'm wrong Africa provides raw diamonds and France carves them the best way[1] hence the fact the Blues are overall the best football team in the world if we look in the last 20 years of world cups.[2]

[1]So then you agree that if it wasn't for Africa providing that "raw material", France wouldn't have been as successful? x3

[2] Highly, highly debatable, by a number of different standards.

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Evil empire

Your idea about "if it wasn't for Africa providing that "raw material", France wouldn't have been as successful" is a hypothesis, perhaps is it true, perhaps is it wrong.

 

If France took part to half of the finals during the 6 latest world cups and won 2 it's the sign my country's team has more than just a certain number of skilled players with african origins. It's the evidence of a quality training for all the players, a united team state-of-mind, a good communication between the players, an ability to know the weaknesses and fix them and I probably forgot some elements. All these things aren't Africa-related. All these elements show France has become a great worldwide football nation nowadays. You can always tone done things about the distant past and the fact the Blues didn't reach the round of 16 in 2002 and 2010 but it doesn't change the global conclusion.

 

9 hours ago, Tchuck said:

So then you agree that if it wasn't for Africa providing that "raw material", France wouldn't have been as successful? x2

Where's the relationship between the fact "50 players competing for another WC team were born in France" and the number of French players with an african extraction? 12.gif

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wilmanwdk

I don't get this recent off-topic conversation in this thread. IMO the WC is about competition of "football schools" (if you know what I mean; the combination of people's passion to football, the accepted training methods and techniques, the ways to motivate players, etc etc etc there's a lot of stuff), not about "uhhh which ethnicity is the best at playing football". If Eesti was to ever win the World Cup (which is not happening in our timeline lol), I would be proud even in the team consisted exclusively of ethnic Russians/Africans/Brazilians/Inuits etc, because that would mean that our country has the best football school.

 

Anyway, let's get this thread back on topic, do y'all agree with Modrić being awarded with the MVP? I think that he deserves it for sure, but it would be interesting to hear your opinions.

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Wolver_321
1 hour ago, wilmanwdk said:

I don't get this recent off-topic conversation in this thread. IMO the WC is about competition of "football schools" (if you know what I mean; the combination of people's passion to football, the accepted training methods and techniques, the ways to motivate players, etc etc etc there's a lot of stuff), not about "uhhh which ethnicity is the best at playing football". If Eesti was to ever win the World Cup (which is not happening in our timeline lol), I would be proud even in the team consisted exclusively of ethnic Russians/Africans/Brazilians/Inuits etc, because that would mean that our country has the best football school.

 

Anyway, let's get this thread back on topic, do y'all agree with Modrić being awarded with the MVP? I think that he deserves it for sure, but it would be interesting to hear your opinions.

I agree 100% on what you said, when a team wins the WC it's a success for the national football movement in general... Even if they haven't done anything special at this WC, think about Iceland... A few years ago this national team was one of the weakest of Europe, while now, thanks to investments on young players and on structures, they've a good team that is even in the 1st league of the new "UEFA Nations League" (and don't forget its population of only 300K people, there has never been a nation with such a low amount of inhabitants at the WC). For sure they didn't have a big result like France had in this WC, but I think Icelandic football association got a big success during the last years.

 

Back on topic...

Yeah, for me Modric deserved that, he and other players (like Rakitic, Mandzukic and Perisic) carried the Croatian team to an unexpected final. Anyway the fact that Croatia lost the final doesn't help Modric for the Ballon d'Or, probably Ronaldo (for all his goals) and Mpabbé (WC winner) are the favorites, especially because they're both strikers. 

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