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Am Shaegar

Carl of GTA San Andreas vs. Niko [Off topic comments from "Catalina" topic]

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Am Shaegar
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, DirtCheap said:

Throughout the game, he’s a One Man Army, yet he begs some idiot with a pistol not to shoot him (would’ve liked him to stay calm and collected rather than showing her he’s scared).

You are confusing several sections of the story progression that happen much later with the initial order of the missions where CJ is clearly working to get back on his feet. He doesn't become a one man army overnight. I mean, lCJ was only left with a camera after Tenpenny drops him in the countryside, and you are comparing this situation in the story with the more powerful CJ we see much later?!

Amazing dude. By your logic, Niko who acted tough initially, killing Vlad and several characters throughout the game shouldn't be acting like he's begging for his life the mission Flat line

OSkllPo.gif

 

What happened to Niko? Why did he forget to use his "imaginary" red army skills?

This is much worse than in case if CJ because this mission comes much later in the storyline. Almost before the ending parts begin. Unlike CJ who actee smart at a time when he clearly had no choice.

Niko who had already murderer so many people didn't make sense for him to take orders at gun point and from whom? A totally pointless character. LMAO!!

 

Also, CJ was not really begging but trying to convince Catalina for robbing banks. 

Edited by lil weasel

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Crossbones

^ "Mr. Pegorino, I don't know what you talking about, I came as quickly as I could." Is this begging for life than what is "Oh baby, baby, I'm so sorry baby" "Please forgive me baby" "Just don't f*cking shoot me please ! Please !

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Am Shaegar

You didn't get the point. That's the difference I was trying to highlight by comparing Niko with the CJ in the beginning when he wasn't some powerful man who would be taking orders at the gunpoint.

As seen in case of Toreno.

lm2PFuQ.gif

 

That's because CJ was growing tired of doing jobs for Toreno and CJ was in a position to do so, unlike in case of Catalina where he couldn't risk to lose his life at that point in time in the story where was not as powerful as seen later. 

In case of Niko, there was absolutely no reason for him to continue working for Pegorino knowing the Pegorinos are not a family. Gravelli is the only man who can get what you need done. Niko clearly appears as if he has no choice other than working for Pegorinis but I just don't get the sense of any compulsion to work for him, unlike in case of Catalina I can still understand CJ's approach in dealing with her. 

Niko was clearly not that weak in the end as CJ was in the beginning.

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Crossbones

Niko is just a hired muscle and hitman all the game. The reason he works for Pegorinos is they pay good. And the reason he kept doing all this as I stated many times before, that he was too deep into this and it's not easy to leave that life so easily. "You listen, you dumb immigrant f*ck. I ain't asking you, I am telling you", this is what Jimmy Pegorino said during the cutscene of 'One last thing'. 

And CJ took no sh*t from anybody in the later part, so what he did after getting punched by Tenpenny in the mission 'Misappropriation', Tenpenny ain't no big time cop, he ain't the commissioner. He can break into a military base, without fearing for his life, so why the hell he keeps doing favours for Toreno to free Sweet, he could have bust Sweet free out the prison. 

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watersgta3
5 hours ago, Crossbones said:

Niko is just a hired muscle and hitman all the game. The reason he works for Pegorinos is they pay good. And the reason he kept doing all this as I stated many times before, that he was too deep into this and it's not easy to leave that life so easily. "You listen, you dumb immigrant f*ck. I ain't asking you, I am telling you", this is what Jimmy Pegorino said during the cutscene of 'One last thing'. 

And CJ took no sh*t from anybody in the later part, so what he did after getting punched by Tenpenny in the mission 'Misappropriation', Tenpenny ain't no big time cop, he ain't the commissioner. He can break into a military base, without fearing for his life, so why the hell he keeps doing favours for Toreno to free Sweet, he could have bust Sweet free out the prison. 

Well Toreno did say he would help CJ free his brother out of prison (The flight missions has Toreno tell CJ that learning to fly is the only way for CJ to free his brother from prison).

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Am Shaegar
5 hours ago, Crossbones said:

why the hell he keeps doing favours for Toreno to free Sweet, he could have bust Sweet free out the prison. 

You should know if you have played (and understood) the story.

 

Niko is just a hired muscle and hitman all the game. The reason he works for Pegorinos is they pay good.

I have read this hundred times before. Lol..It pays, hire muscle man, etc. That's completely fine if you find these reasons making sense for him to continue doing jobs, but I don't buy that argument, esp., when The Contact clearly mentions that Pegorino is not the man that is going to help him out. He was already working for a powerful and influential Jon Gravelli that I find it stupid to work for a man who is struggling to gain a place in the Commission and this money excuse is getting boring now. That's the last thing Niko should care about at that point in the story. 

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DirtCheap
9 hours ago, Am Shaegar said:

You are confusing several sections of the story progression that happen much later with the initial order of the missions where CJ is clearly working to get back on his feet. He doesn't become a one man army overnight. I mean, lCJ was only left with a camera after Tenpenny drops him in the countryside, and you are comparing this situation in the story with the more powerful CJ we see much later?!

Amazing dude. By your logic, Niko who acted tough initially, killing Vlad and several characters throughout the game shouldn't be acting like he's begging for his life the mission Flat line

OSkllPo.gif

 

What happened to Niko? Why did he forget to use his "imaginary" red army skills?

This is much worse than in case if CJ because this mission comes much later in the storyline. Almost before the ending parts begin. Unlike CJ who actee smart at a time when he clearly had no choice.

Niko who had already murderer so many people didn't make sense for him to take orders at gun point and from whom? A totally pointless character. LMAO!!

 

Also, CJ was not really begging but trying to convince Catalina for robbing banks. 

 

Lol dude relax, I’m not dissing CJ. Like you, he’s my favourite GTA character. However, what I’m trying to say is that throughout the game’s storyline, CJ is portrayed as a force not to be reckoned with and yet in this mission, he begs some dumb small time criminal not to shoot him. This made no sense to me because in LS, he somewhat weakened an enormous and powerful street gang, cleared a SWAT-infested motel and removed the most powerful guys from the most powerful gangs. And he did all these things by HIMSELF. So he is some sort of One Man Army by the time he gets to the countryside. 

 

What I meant to say when I said he was a One Man Army was that he’s a guy who takes no sh*t so I see no reason for him to calmly ask Catalina to not shoot him and get that gun away. The difference between the scene with CJ and Niko is that Niko tries to not look like he’s begging for his life while CJ’s first instinct is to beg. It just surprised me that some guy who can take over a gang territory all by himself and has no fear of sitting on the most vulnerable part of a car/bike during a high speed chase with goons with big guns on your tail got scared by some crazy fool with a pistol.

 

But regardless, he’s still one of my most favourite characters.

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Am Shaegar
2 minutes ago, DirtCheap said:

Throughout the game’s storyline, CJ is portrayed as a force not to be reckoned with and yet in this mission, he begs some dumb small time criminal not to shoot him. 

I don't get that impression about CJ. He never appeared to me like a one man army until the late parts of the story. CJ was actually struggling throughout the initial parts of the story after the GSF's decline. Being tough doesn't mean that you lose all your senses and switch off all your brain cells. That's what happens in case of GTA 4. Troubles keep coming to Niko and bigger problems keep piling up. CJ was a complete opposite of Niko. He was a cool, calm headed guy, who would use violence only when pushed to the extreme. Most of the times CJ likes to talk it out, as seen in case of Catalina. Don't forget that he was still a young guy. There is a level of naivety present in him. The more you progress into the story, the more CJ starts to act tough and react to the situations accordingly without taking sh*t anymore because he was in a position to do so. As seen in case of Toreno, and he even confronts his own brother on the issue of whether Sweet should remain in the hood or not.

That's the change reflected in his character and personality. From a humble god fearing man in the beginning of the game to a rich, arrogant millionaire. 

 

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DirtCheap
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Am Shaegar said:

I don't get that impression about CJ. He never appeared to me like a one man army until the late parts of the story. CJ was actually struggling throughout the initial parts of the story after the GSF's decline. Being tough doesn't mean that you lose all your senses and switch off all your brain cells. That's what happens in case of GTA 4. Troubles keep coming to Niko and bigger problems keep piling up. CJ was a complete opposite of Niko. He was a cool, calm headed guy, who would use violence only when pushed to the extreme. Most of the times CJ likes to talk it out, as seen in case of Catalina. Don't forget that he was still a young guy. There is a level of naivety present in him. The more you progress into the story, the more CJ starts to act tough and react to the situations accordingly without taking sh*t anymore because he was in a position to do so. As seen in case of Toreno, and he even confronts his own brother on the issue of whether Sweet should remain in the hood or not.

That's the change reflected in his character and personality. From a humble god fearing man in the beginning of the game to a rich, arrogant millionaire. 

 

 

When I say “force not to be reckoned with”, I don’t mean he’s a One Man Army. What I mean to say is that he’s real powerful and I gave the examples in my previous post on why the people of LS would consider him an unstoppable force.

 

Other than that, I see your point on how CJ’s character changes. When people on this forum claimed CJ was inconsistent after LS, I always thought CJ really had no rep after he’s dumped in the countryside and he can’t really bring up his gang status to intimidate someone (for example, in ‘Wu Zi Mu’, he tells Woozie he’s part of GSF and that does nothing as Woozie laughs and tells him ‘Relax, it’s not a parade’) and hence why he changes from powerful O.G. to an unheard of, small-time criminal.

Edited by DirtCheap

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Crossbones
6 hours ago, Am Shaegar said:

You should know if you have played (and understood) the story.

 

 

 

I have read this hundred times before. Lol..It pays, hire muscle man, etc. That's completely fine if you find these reasons making sense for him to continue doing jobs, but I don't buy that argument, esp., when The Contact clearly mentions that Pegorino is not the man that is going to help him out. He was already working for a powerful and influential Jon Gravelli that I find it stupid to work for a man who is struggling to gain a place in the Commission and this money excuse is getting boring now. That's the last thing Niko should care about at that point in the story. 

Niko had many motives when he came to Liberty City, starting a NEW life which he would have done if all the e-mails Roman sent him were true, then it was to find Florian as he mentions after killing Vlad and also escaping the wrath of Bulgarin. He worked for Ray Boccino, so Ray helped him by tracing Florian, by working for Ray he was introduced to Jimmy P and Phil Bell and this is nearly the ending part of the game. He got too many loose ends, long history with Dimitri and like I stated it many times before and produced evidences from in-game dialogues NIKO WAS TOO DEEP INTO IT by the time he started working for Jimmy P. Also, if he would have left the life little early, say after dealing with Darko, do you the think the people he dealt with during the game would let him walk away, they would have saw him as a liability, who knows too much,  and Jimmy P was already paranoid.

 

Niko- I have tied up lot of loose ends in the city recently. I feel like it's the time to move on, start living my life right.

Kate- But you're tough guy with deathwise. A thieving, murdering, drug dealing idiot. Do you just think you can just walk away from all that ?

Niko- I can try.

Kate- Good luck, Niko. I really hope you can walk away. But, do you think the men you've dealt with will just let you leave and walk into the sunset.

Niko- They will have to.

Kate- I thought when you do the work that you do, that people get hooks into you. And then there's no way out.

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Am Shaegar

Niko was too deep into it because of his mistakes. Its not like somebody forced him to start murdering people. Its like a chain reaction - You kill the guys of the mob, and the mob threatens you to either work for them or pay a price. What goes against Niko is his age and experience. He wasn't a naive low level thug but already had a past of horrible crimes and even an experience of working with someone (Bulgarin) who thinks that Niko was a traitor, and yet you (not you, I mean Niko) make excuses one after another to continue killing people.

Also the list of MOTIVES you presented seems mixed up with things Niko did out of his own will and some were part of his job as a hitman or gunman or whatever for whom he was working.

 

On the other hand, CJ's goals are very clear in game and despite the initial setbacks, his family helped him to get out of the difficulties to focus on becoming better and greater, looking beyond the life of murders and killings. 

 

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Crossbones

CJ had clear goals ? His goals should have been freeing Sweet from prison, but he ended up managing casino in LV, buying a car showroom and garage in SF, stealing from military, stealing Green Goo and robbing a mob managed casino. Sure, all this missions were fun, but after doing all this where did they ended up, in the HOOD. So basically CJ starts from Ganton and ends up in Ganton, still gangbanging.  

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Am Shaegar

Yup. That's an impressive portfolio that shows CJ's growth across various crime areas after leaving the hood. Its not a single goal I am talking here, but there's more going on his life than only worry about freeing Sweet because its important to keep Sweet SAFE in prison. Tenpenny didn't promise to release Sweet. Its not in his hands. We are talking about the law here. Sweet wasn't kidnapped that CJ needs to worry about FREEING him. He was awaiting a trial. Till then what do you expect him to do? Mourn about the past events in LS and make emotional speeches like Niko talking about how the young and stupid are tricked into killing each other, keeping a sad face the whole time, or like Kendl says, "make something of yourself".

Sweet automatically got released from prison later. Toreno helped him in his brother's release anyways. So I don't understand why are people making Sweet's life in prison such a big deal.

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TheSantader25
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Crossbones said:

CJ had clear goals ? His goals should have been freeing Sweet from prison, but he ended up managing casino in LV, buying a car showroom and garage in SF, stealing from military, stealing Green Goo and robbing a mob managed casino. Sure, all this missions were fun, but after doing all this where did they ended up, in the HOOD. So basically CJ starts from Ganton and ends up in Ganton, still gangbanging.  

CJ had two goals. 

One was the hood and releasing his brother which he did. This goal was to fix his mistakes in the past. 

The other was for himself. He always thought the hood is a waste of time so he continued his path to wealth that he started in Liberty City and became rich. He could either ONLY what toreno and Tenpenny ask,  to keep sweet safe OR he could also make sth of himself while doing their work too.

HE DID BOTH. HE helped others and also reached HIS OWN MOTIVES as well. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Crossbones

CJ reached his motives ? After doing all that sh*t in SF and LV, he clearly didn't wanted to go back to  hood, he didn't had any intentions of getting revenge on Smoke, all he wanted to do was to enjoy his new found success in LV along with Sweet and Kendl, but what he did next, he went back to the hood, waged turf wars and all that sh*t he did in the first part of the game just this time he had AKs instead of SMGs. 

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TheSantader25
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Crossbones said:

CJ reached his motives ? After doing all that sh*t in SF and LV, he clearly didn't wanted to go back to  hood, he didn't had any intentions of getting revenge on Smoke, all he wanted to do was to enjoy his new found success in LV along with Sweet and Kendl, but what he did next, he went back to the hood, waged turf wars and all that sh*t he did in the first part of the game just this time he had AKs instead of SMGs. 

You didn't get the point again. CJ didn't go back to the hood because he suddenly fell in love with it. He did those all for his brother, mom and sweet. Even in the END OF THE LINE in the car he said:'for moms fir my brother. He says he is sorry that he left when his family needed him. But HE NEVER EVER says for Grove street. Sweet says FOR GROVE STREET and CJ just confirms that in a sarcastic way like he cares. He knows if he says he doesn't care about the grove sweet would be pissed. So he confirms that line just like he cares. Even in the end he didn't give a sh*t about the hood. He wanted to fix his mistakes about his family. Nothing else. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Johnny Spaz

CJ just liked BDSM, that's why he let Catalina do all that, don't get it twisted, if it was someone else CJ would've murdered that person

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4nsmiley
On 7/14/2018 at 6:27 AM, Johnny Spaz said:

CJ just liked BDSM, that's why he let Catalina do all that, don't get it twisted, if it was someone else CJ would've murdered that person

Have you seen the remove hot coffee Mimi games. My boy CJ is a freak lmao 

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