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Gian_Yagami

How important idle stance for pistols?

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Gian_Yagami

Yeah so I was wondering, most modern third person shooter games has animation style, let's see resident evil 4, 5 and 6. Leon and Chris always held pistol by raising their hands. (Sorry no pic, I write this from mobile). Why they doing this? Is has benefit or just for cool things? Why this position never used in real life? Every video I've seen on YouTube it just technique for shooting (pointing pistol to target).

 

And yes, this position has more variant, the guns held by two hands and pointing to bellow, Michael in GTA V always did this. And sheva alomar using this position, most character in resident evil 6 also did this.

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OurJud

Gun use - whether that be third person or first person - has never really represented real life authentically. That said I'm struggling to understand what you mean when you say characters "always held pistol by raising their hands."

 

When you control a character to shoot a pistol, what alternative is there to 'raising their hands' ? That's how you aim and shoot a pistol, isn't it?

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Gian_Yagami
12 minutes ago, OurJud said:

Gun use - whether that be third person or first person - has never really represented real life authentically. That said I'm struggling to understand what you mean when you say characters "always held pistol by raising their hands."

 

When you control a character to shoot a pistol, what alternative is there to 'raising their hands' ? That's how you aim and shoot a pistol, isn't it?

I am sorry I am bad at explaining this. I mean like this images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTq_82-onncmbU96WYhTIx

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OurJud
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Gian_Yagami said:

I am sorry I am bad at explaining this. I mean like this images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTq_82-onncmbU96WYhTIx

Oh, I see. Well I think the answer is, simply, that this stance is considered more 'cinematic'. I think players somehow perceive themselves as 'agents' or 'professionals' when they see their character holding a gun like this.

 

In first-person it's different, but no more accurate or authentic. I hate how first-person models hold pistols - that cheesy way they float under your nose the whole time, and always too close to your face. In real life when holding a handgun, it would be lowered to somewhere around your waist area and pointed at the ground until you're ready to take aim, but I read somewhere that your typical FPS arcade player doesn't like it when they can't see their weapon the whole time, and that has just carried over, even to first-person games that are aiming for more realism. Same can be said for rifles and automatics, but FPS look especially corny when holding a pistol.

 

first-person-shooters-logic.jpg?resize=4

Edited by OurJud

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luisniko

I don't know what your real question is, but guns, and in your case, handguns pointing up is quite common in games. Saints Row, Ghost Recon Wildlands, Borderlands do the same.

 

And I think that's just one of the safety procedure. Point the barrel up so when it accidentally goes off, you don't hit yourself or your surrounding in the foot.

 

Same reason as to not point your camera lens upwards.

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HaRdSTyLe_83

i dont think it has anything to do with cinematic or style, you cant just aim the weapon all the time, your arms start to get tired.

IMO its a much faster reaction time to have the gun up and bring it down then the other way around even if in trainning we are teached to keep the gun at the floor

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Bloodytears1666
On 6/21/2018 at 3:03 PM, OurJud said:

I hate how first-person models hold pistols - that cheesy way they float under your nose the whole time, and always too close to your face. 

Don't understand why there should be like whole arm in FP view, it's very impractical to a game. Plus it's not actually your eyes, it is camera, could be anywhere. 

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OurJud
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Bloodytears1666 said:

Don't understand why there should be like whole arm in FP view, it's very impractical to a game. Plus it's not actually your eyes, it is camera, could be anywhere. 

What do you mean it's not actually your eyes? A first-person game is (supposed to be) a simulation of how we perceive and view things in real life. And why would having your arm(s) in view when holding a pistol be impractical? Get a gun (a toy one hopefully) and hold it out in front of you like you're aiming. Then compare that to the stupid view we get in first-person games. That cartoon a few posts up from here might have crappy drawings, but it's very true in what it's saying.

Edited by OurJud

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HaRdSTyLe_83
4 hours ago, Bloodytears1666 said:

 Plus it's not actually your eyes, it is camera, could be anywhere. 

 

the whole point of First Person Shooter is to be seen thru your eyes not a body camera

 

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OurJud
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, HaRdSTyLe_83 said:

i dont think it has anything to do with cinematic or style, you cant just aim the weapon all the time, your arms start to get tired.

IMO its a much faster reaction time to have the gun up and bring it down then the other way around even if in trainning we are teached to keep the gun at the floor

Exactly, and it would be nice if first-person games did it like this too. Unfortunately, as I say, research suggests most gamers when playing a first-person game get very confused when they can't see their weapon hovering under their nose the whole time, so we all have to have it like that.

 

The only first-person game that comes close to reflecting the way we hold and use guns in real life in Arma, but that kind of game seems to be a long way from coming to console.

Edited by OurJud

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Bloodytears1666
37 minutes ago, HaRdSTyLe_83 said:

 

the whole point of First Person Shooter is to be seen thru your eyes not a body camera

 

It's not body camera, it's camera putted somewhere in front of face.

 

39 minutes ago, OurJud said:

What do you mean it's not actually your eyes? A first-person game is (supposed to be) a simulation of how we perceive and view things in real life. And why would having your arm(s) in view when holding a pistol be impractical? Get a gun (a toy one hopefully) and hold it out in front of you like you're aiming. Then compare that to the stupid view we get in first-person games. That cartoon a few posts up from here might have crappy drawings, but it's very true in what it's saying.

I've used real firearms and I can tell you if only I've been able to see it the way it represented in video games. Believe me without rectangle and with real eye position camera it will drastically change gameplay and greatly lower your accuracy. Arma view is the same as others, when camera positions somewhere at elbow.

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OurJud
37 minutes ago, Bloodytears1666 said:

It's not body camera, it's camera putted somewhere in front of face.

 

I've used real firearms and I can tell you if only I've been able to see it the way it represented in video games. Believe me without rectangle and with real eye position camera it will drastically change gameplay and greatly lower your accuracy. Arma view is the same as others, when camera positions somewhere at elbow.

Arma does'nt have the camera at elbow level, because with free head movement you can look down at your body (from the chest down) and you can also look over your shoulder.

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Bloodytears1666
2 minutes ago, OurJud said:

Arma does'nt have the camera at elbow level, because with free head movement you can look down at your body (from the chest down) and you can also look over your shoulder.

May be I mixing something. But straight view with a gun the same as in other games. And 'course worth to mention that real aiming have more head position matters, than weapon.

 

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Gian_Yagami

Sorry for makes you all confused guys, I am talk about firearm discipline. As far as I know, there's method for aiming pistol (I.e: sidegrip, weaver & isosceles) and I am asking 'bout is there a method or discipline for holding gun (not aiming) just like that Chris's photos?

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OurJud
6 hours ago, Gian_Yagami said:

Sorry for makes you all confused guys, I am talk about firearm discipline. As far as I know, there's method for aiming pistol (I.e: sidegrip, weaver & isosceles) and I am asking 'bout is there a method or discipline for holding gun (not aiming) just like that Chris's photos?

I’m no gun expert, but I suspect the stance you show in that image is more from the movies than real life. I think it’s seen as cool because that’s how the cops in movies hold them.

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Skeever
8 hours ago, Gian_Yagami said:

is there a method or discipline for holding gun (not aiming) just like that Chris's photos?

FYI, I'm no firearms expert, but yes.

 

Today, firearms instructors generally teach you to keep handguns pointed to the ground when brandishing (but not aiming) them. This is done so, in the event of a negligent discharge, the direction of the discharged bullet will be "controlled" in that it'll go towards the ground, whether that be harmlessly into the dirt or your own foot. There's probably other reasons for it too, though.

 

A few decades back, it was taught that you keep a handgun pointed up at the sky while brandishing it, much like Chris's stance. The problem with this is that a negligent discharge would lead to the bullet being propelled up randomly into the air and then fall (with enough momentum to be lethal, in most cases) who knows where. This could cause everyone to panic and hope for the best that it doesn't come back down on one of them and into their head or torso. Of course, there's also the chance that if you're sprinting and tired as hell or something, you may not be able to keep your handgun pointed up perfectly straight, and it may just be tilted towards your head when a negligent discharge occurs.

 

It's more a matter of safety than anything else, I think. Keeping a brandished firearm pointed upwards doesn't provide any sort of tactical advantage that I know of.

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Bloodytears1666

Don't think that 9mm bullet will kill anyone from free fall? Especially if talk about decade ago, depending on what time been mentioned.

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Gian_Yagami
10 hours ago, Skeever said:

FYI, I'm no firearms expert, but yes.

 

Today, firearms instructors generally teach you to keep handguns pointed to the ground when brandishing (but not aiming) them. This is done so, in the event of a negligent discharge, the direction of the discharged bullet will be "controlled" in that it'll go towards the ground, whether that be harmlessly into the dirt or your own foot. There's probably other reasons for it too, though.

 

A few decades back, it was taught that you keep a handgun pointed up at the sky while brandishing it, much like Chris's stance. The problem with this is that a negligent discharge would lead to the bullet being propelled up randomly into the air and then fall (with enough momentum to be lethal, in most cases) who knows where. This could cause everyone to panic and hope for the best that it doesn't come back down on one of them and into their head or torso. Of course, there's also the chance that if you're sprinting and tired as hell or something, you may not be able to keep your handgun pointed up perfectly straight, and it may just be tilted towards your head when a negligent discharge occurs.

 

It's more a matter of safety than anything else, I think. Keeping a brandished firearm pointed upwards doesn't provide any sort of tactical advantage that I know of.

That's what I mean, I thought they will have advantage. I had my photo with pistol pointed upwards. And I was wondering "why I am doing this?" I am just copying video game pose but don't know what I am really doing.

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Skeever
14 hours ago, Bloodytears1666 said:

Don't think that 9mm bullet will kill anyone from free fall? Especially if talk about decade ago, depending on what time been mentioned.

Huh, I didn't realize handgun rounds lost so much velocity in those instances... my bad. I thought it was only birdshot, 22LR, and a handful of other really weak loads that were relatively harmless if they were to be shot up in the air and come back down on someone.

 

11 hours ago, Gian_Yagami said:

That's what I mean, I thought they will have advantage. I had my photo with pistol pointed upwards. And I was wondering "why I am doing this?" I am just copying video game pose but don't know what I am really doing.

I don't see the advantage, myself. I think that pose is meant to look cool and inspired by action movies more than anything else.

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OurJud
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Skeever said:

FYI, I'm no firearms expert, but yes.

 

Today, firearms instructors generally teach you to keep handguns pointed to the ground when brandishing (but not aiming) them. This is done so, in the event of a negligent discharge, the direction of the discharged bullet will be "controlled" in that it'll go towards the ground, whether that be harmlessly into the dirt or your own foot. There's probably other reasons for it too, though.

 

But the character in the photo isn't pointing the gun at the ground, he's pointing it in the air, above his shoulder.

 

Gian_Yagami's question was: "is there a method or discipline for holding gun (not aiming) just like that Chris's photos?"

Edited by OurJud

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Skeever

Yes, and I elaborated on that in my third paragraph of the very post you quoted. https://i.imgur.com/Fr13RSS.png

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