Is it wrong destroying someones cargo?

[Bruce Khansey]

Guys, have you ever thought that destroyng other players cargo could just be another way of having FUN?

[Quinn_flower]

dick

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, DemonicSpaceman said:

No opposition for a sale would make it very dull.

Increased NPC activity should do the trick, and like I said; every player can, and shall, choose to conduct business at more exciting (and excitable) places, even in the middle of the warzone (with then higher payouts, of course). There are lots of possibilities, my point was more around separating more the different approaches, giving more structure to the game and its different tiers of sessions, instead of stuffing everything together into some half-assed raining-on-someone-else's-parade sandbox.

 

Sometimes people find recreational value in doing stuff that others find boring, and they should be able to enjoy a game they have paid the same money for like everybody else. GTA has the potential to cater so many tastes, and they are doing an admirable job to constantly add diversity, that I just don't understand why they are failing in the whole business question. I fully agree that there is no right or wrong here, you are right (ha!) there, but one can look at whether the whole is well designed and functioning for players, or not. And with so many people getting angry and needlessly frustrated, I just don't see freemode as it is a very well-functioning place at the moment. It works for the best players, fine, but what about the others?

 

I had hoped that I expressed how any taste - and skill - could be served with "my" model, and R* wouldn't end up poorer with it either, since it doesn't dish out that much more money overall, yet would create more replay value. Yet they doubtlessly know what they are doing, while I obviously have expressed myself poorly; I see myself that I cannot deliver properly the point I'm trying to make.

 

Anyway, we could play this back and forth endlessly. In truth I fear you are right, because R* in their actions evidently prove you right. I'm just desperately holding to hope. I rest my case here. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Guest

[bigraj]

I don't do it, mainly because it pisses me off when people attack me when I'm trying to sell/assist on a sale.  And I don't like screwing folks out of money.  Maybe, if the financial reward were greater, I'd look at it differently.  But to go after a small bounty's worth of cash, when I could make a few hundred grand doing my own sale?  Not worth it.  Much easier, and more rewarding to snipe a few bounties and steal a Felon or a Baller off the street and sell it at a custom shop.

 

I'd definitely prefer the option to steal the cargo and sell it myself.  That would make it worthwhile to interfere with someone's sales. 

[Black-Dragon96]

20 minutes ago, Bruce Khansey said:

Guys, have you ever thought that destroyng other players cargo could just be another way of having FUN?

How any decent human being can think, that ruining other players game experience is somehow fun, is beyond me.

 

25 minutes ago, Ice_cold2016 said:

 

It was a challenge. That's what i like to do in GTA. I like to take on entire high rank groups on my own, bite off more than i can chew for the love of the challenge. You were all high ranked ranking from around 146 to 600+. You were 600+ and in a Lazer jet protecting the cargo. I was in a slow Rogue plane taking on you in a lazer jet, some guy in a Deluxo at the same time AND trying to destroy the cargo. I beat all 3 of you. That was a challenge not many could have pulled off. My Rogue plane wouldn't even lock onto the cargo, i had to manual aim. Than in itself is a challenge in a wobbly Rogue. I got satisfaction from it. And after all the salty texts from you i'm glad i destroyed your cargo. I'd do it again.

 

You consider going against a cargo transport in a plane with explosive rounds all while being otr a challenge? Wow, just wow.

Even the least skilled player could have pulled that of.

It does not matter how many people protect it or what level these people are.

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

46 minutes ago, DemonicSpaceman said:

I've always been in favour of reduced payouts in private lobbies. However, it's not the real answer. No opposition for a sale would make it very dull. Imagine playing Payday and not being spotted, without alerting anyone etc., you could rob that bank/store by running in with no challenge, is that really fun? Or even imagine doing Pacific Standard finale without the police chasing you at the end, would that be fun? It would be a grinders paradise but it wouldn't exactly be fun.

It may be dull your you and other players, but also it would be a godsend for others too. Not everyone has the time, the disposition or the taste for PvP all the time.

 

You know, different strokes for different folks and all that. 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Lucy_Woooolfe said:

Increased NPC activity should do the trick

Unfortunately Rockstar have proven that they do not have the ability to do this in any way which is enjoyable. Personally I don't believe Rockstar has ever managed to produce any kind of decent AI. It's the one area their games have always fallen down IMO.

[carnerd3000]

Obviously you can do what you want, but don't be surprised if people send you angry messages or try to retaliate in any way.

[Jenkiiii]

Besides being morally wrong to attack someone in a relatively slow and unarmed cargo vehicle (assuming they don't have air/ground support and there is no beef between you), it's the way Rockstar presents the delivery mission to different parties that is wrong.

 

The people doing the delivery mission are told, shhhh..., we've got to do this on the quiet without raising the attention of the cops in slow and generic trash trucks or postal vans, or go offshore in Dodos or go under the radar in unarmed planes so that we're not detected, etc., leading the player to believe that it's a low-key affair against the environment. We totally buy into this and roleplay the situation as though it's just us against the machine.

 

EXCEPT, it's not told that way to the attackers.

 

Attackers: please destroy this slow delivery vehicle trundling around the map for next to no reward. Thank you.

 

And there we have the bigger picture. Two different scenarios given to two different mindsets - one scenario for the delivery guy in his poorly decked out equipment, and one scenario for the attacker who is positively encouraged to take them down. And this has to stop - Rockstar's portrayal of events in different ways depending on who the recipient of the information is!

Edited June 14, 2018 by Jenkiiii

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

33 minutes ago, Bruce Khansey said:

Guys, have you ever thought that destroyng other players cargo could just be another way of having FUN?

Yeah but you're having fun at the costs of other player's fun, so?

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

It may be dull your you and other players, but also it would be a godsend for others too. Not everyone has the time, the disposition or the taste for PvP all the time.

 

You know, different strokes for different folks and all that. 

Like I said, it would be a grinders paradise but it would be duller than dish water. It wouldn't "fix" it any more than leaving it as it is, you're just flipping the coin and making it the exact opposite.

 

FYI I'm for moving it from PvP to PvE. No PvE exists in many sale missions and some resupply missions. What PvE is there is limited. I'd at least expect the lost to send out as many people to f*ck you up after kicking their ass in the club or after robbing the safe from their club house but once that's done it's an easy drive home or to the delivery location.

 

So you want to be paid to just drive 5 miles, deliver something, drive 5 miles back, collect delivery vehicle 2, drive another 5 or so miles, repeat many many times, to earn a few hundred grand?

 

One thing that was a negative in most of the reviews of the original heists that I read was the sheer amount of driving. Driving is a part of GTA, sure. However, it's supposed to have opposition, it's supposed to have something that stops you falling asleep while you make that drive down the highway to deliver the illegitimate goods that either the police are interested in or another rival gang is interested in.

 

If driving and delivering is enjoyable for you perhaps you'd enjoy Delivery Truck Driver Simulator or even delivering your yield in Farming Simulator rather than a game that's always been built around having to deal with opposition to your objective.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Guest

[Jenkiiii]

8 minutes ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

Yeah but you're having fun at the costs of other player's fun, so?

Don't worry about him, Voodoo, we've discussed this a thousand times already and it's very clear in this thread that attacking cargo is morally wrong. The guy is probably trolling for the sake of being a knob.

 

Did you ever leave your bicycle outside when you were a kid? I know I did.

Most people walk past and say, hey that's not my bike, and carry on with their business, until the guy who walks past and says, if that person is stupid enough to leave an un-padlocked bicycle outside then I'm having it. Someone is going to steal the bicycle eventually, just as some dickhead will eventually blow up your cargo, and worst of all, for no reward other than stroking their ego. I mean, at least the asshole in real-life gets a bicycle out of it!

Edited June 14, 2018 by Jenkiiii

[Rammer2k]

Since Rockstar openly encourages you to destroy other people's Cargo for "RP, and Cash Rewards", technically it's all fair game.  However, just like in Baseball, and Golf, there are unwritten rules of ethics that seem to be in place.  If I ever land in someone's own lobby, I won't mess with their stuff, just as I hope they won't mess with mine.  Thankfully there's the good ole NAT Trick for Xbox that clears out a lobby if things get too hectic, or trollish for me.

[Bruce Khansey]

8 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

Don't worry about him, Voodoo, we've discussed this a thousand times already and it's very clear in this thread that attacking cargo is morally wrong. The guy is probably trolling for the sake of being a knob.

 

Did you ever leave your bicycle outside when you were a kid? I know I did.

Most people walk past and say, hey that's not my bike, and carry on with their business, until the guy who walks past and says, if that person is stupid enough to leave an un-padlocked bicycle outside then I'm having it. Someone is going to steal the bicycle eventually, just as some dickhead will eventually blow up your cargo, and worst of all, for no reward other than stroking their ego. I mean, at least the asshole in real-life gets a bicycle out of it!

I'm not trolling or kidding, I'm serious.

 

This game allows you to do it, you sell in crowded lobbies at your own risk. Plus, you can restart the game to lose only 7k if you see that someone's destroying your cargo while selling.

 

I won't spend any word  for the example you made. Comparing a game to a bike theft, gosh I didn't know this game is pretty much your whole life.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

Yeah but you're having fun at the costs of other player's fun, so?

What happened to "different strokes for different folks"? Or does it only work the one way around?

 

Surely playing any competitive PvP game is having fun at the costs of others - nobody likes to lose. Let's petition to EA to stop showing a score in any of their sports games and just give every f*cker a participation medal at the end of it. Let's petition for them to add even more tilt to even out their games so every game is tied and nobody goes home a loser.

 

It is a valid point if we bear in mind that different players play differently. While you may not like that way to play others do. Why should they not be allowed to play their way but it's fine for you to play your way? If they find it fun to play that way and you refuse to let them at least try to aren't you having fun at the expense of theirs? If you hide away in safe sessions aren't you depriving them of that fun they could be having?

 

Yeah it's far fetched and some very out their arguments but "different strokes for different folks" and all that, surely it applies across the board?

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

3 minutes ago, DemonicSpaceman said:

What happened to "different strokes for different folks"? Or does it only work the one way around?

 

Surely playing any competitive PvP game is having fun at the costs of others - nobody likes to lose. Let's petition to EA to stop showing a score in any of their sports games and just give every f*cker a participation medal at the end of it. Let's petition for them to add even more tilt to even out their games so every game is tied and nobody goes home a loser.

 

It is a valid point if we bear in mind that different players play differently. While you may not like that way to play others do. Why should they not be allowed to play their way but it's fine for you to play your way? If they find it fun to play that way and you refuse to let them at least try to aren't you having fun at the expense of theirs? If you hide away in safe sessions aren't you depriving them of that fun they could be having?

 

Yeah it's far fetched and some very out their arguments but "different strokes for different folks" and all that, surely it applies across the board?

What do you lose when you lose a match on FIFA, COD, Street Fighter? Aside from a slight decrease on your W/L ratio or K/D ratio, maybe a decrease on your league position or something similar, basically nothing.

 

What do you lose when  you get your cargo destroyed on GTAO? Hours upon hours of grinding gone to waste.

 

You can't seriously compare both.

[bigraj]

17 minutes ago, DemonicSpaceman said:

So you want to be paid to just drive 5 miles, deliver something, drive 5 miles back, collect delivery vehicle 2, drive another 5 or so miles, repeat many many times, to earn a few hundred grand?

 

Um . . . yeah.  It's why I invested money to start up/upgrade the businesses I own.  I feel that the amount of opposition from NPCs (and up against a clock) is enough of a challenge to deal with for the most part, to feel like I've earned my money after all the resupplies and occasionally having to defend my MC biz from the cops.

[Big Molio]

21 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

Don't worry about him, Voodoo, we've discussed this a thousand times already and it's very clear in this thread that attacking cargo is morally wrong. The guy is probably trolling for the sake of being a knob.

 

Did you ever leave your bicycle outside when you were a kid? I know I did.

Most people walk past and say, hey that's not my bike, and carry on with their business, until the guy who walks past and says, if that person is stupid enough to leave an un-padlocked bicycle outside then I'm having it. Someone is going to steal the bicycle eventually, just as some dickhead will eventually blow up your cargo, and worst of all, for no reward other than stroking their ego. I mean, at least the asshole in real-life gets a bicycle out of it!

Morality is a subjective thing though so whilst it may be morally wrong to you, it isn't universally so. Objectively, you could argue that it isn't wrong because the game's designers promote such activity with their texts inviting players to do this. They have set up a sandbox play arena where the intent, quite clearly, is that the players are encouraged to be adversarial to each other.

 

With that in mind, your bike stealing analogy is comparing apples with oranges. The general consensus in society is that theft is wrong, and as such the law punishes people who steal stuff. There is no such similar penalty in GTAO for destroying cargo, in fact, the opposite is true and players are rewarded for it, albeit a meagre payout.

 

 

[Mach1bud]

1 minute ago, DemonicSpaceman said:

Surely playing any competitive PvP game is having fun at the costs of others - nobody likes to lose. 

This is the issue. 

 

GTA is not a competitive PvP game.

 

You can use the excuse "because Rockstar says to do it", but that is not the reason at all that players go out of their way to screw other players. There could be no on screen message, no money at all to be made, and players would still hunt down other players that are doing freemode business work.

 

It's not because it's a game mechanic, it's because many players have the childish desire to feel superior to someone else. Hunting harmless animals for sport, that have little defense against the hunter. Bullies that beat up the small kid in the bathroom. The griefer that kills you over and over while you are clearly afk. All the same mentality.

[MeisterJazz]

Why dont people just use mtu method?

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

7 minutes ago, DemonicSpaceman said:

It is a valid point if we bear in mind that different players play differently. While you may not like that way to play others do. Why should they not be allowed to play their way but it's fine for you to play your way? If they find it fun to play that way and you refuse to let them at least try to aren't you having fun at the expense of theirs? If you hide away in safe sessions aren't you depriving them of that fun they could be having?

Me grinding alone doesn't affect anyone at all.

 

Me destroying cargo directly affects your enjoyment of the game.

 

Big difference.

[MaddenedGhost]

1 hour ago, Bruce Khansey said:

Guys, have you ever thought that destroyng other players cargo could just be another way of having FUN?

I did, I got myself an error: "404 fun not found"

I kill people in freeroam, but I avoid people doing business stuff, in fact I was fighting an MC once and they started a resupply mission, they collected some supplies and saw that I was there next to another crate that they haven't picked, I stood next to the crate, didn't destroy it, they came in, picked it up, finished the resupply mission and we got back to the fight.

[Big Molio]

5 minutes ago, Mach1bud said:

This is the issue. 

 

GTA is not a competitive PvP game.

I disagree there M1B, and that is solely based on the principle that Rockstar have set up the freemode jobs and notifications so that the players are antagonistic towards each other, either individually or in opposing crews / organisations / motorcycle gangs. The developer doesn't have to put too much effort into providing AI enemies if the players themselves will be the obstacles to goal success.

 

It is the community who balks at this gameplay, not the developers who in fact encourage it.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Big Molio

[Jenkiiii]

2 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

Morality is a subjective thing though so whilst it may be morally wrong to you, it isn't universally so. Objectively, you could argue that it isn't wrong because the game's designers promote such activity with their texts inviting players to do this. They have set up a sandbox play arena where the intent, quite clearly, is that the players are encouraged to be adversarial to each other.

 

With that in mind, your bike stealing analogy is comparing apples with oranges. The general consensus in society is that theft is wrong, and as such the law punishes people who steal stuff. There is no such similar penalty in GTAO for destroying cargo, in fact, the opposite is true and players are rewarded for it, albeit a meagre payout.

 

 

The difference is, the person who steals a bicycle in real-life isn't being encouraged to do so by the seller of new bicycles, contrary to the way it works with Rockstar Games - they sell revenue in the form of shark cards, so obviously, they want you to destroy other people's revenue.

 

Most people appreciate this and kind of wince when it comes to destroying people's cargo because they know they're being coerced down this path by Rockstar for the purposes of ultimately selling shark cards to the victims.

 

It's kind of horribly wrong if you ask me.

[MaddenedGhost]

 

 

It's not even just that, it's the fact that in 30 players public lobby, there are people welling to fight yet some trash players go after the ones driving slow vans with no protection whatsoever, and ruin it for them, how about you go for X--UGOTBODIED__X who's ready to show off with his marksmen dance instead of going after some level 70 who has been filling up his warehouse for hours just to get some cash.

 

[Mach1bud]

2 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

I disagree there M1B, and that is solely based on the principle that Rockstar have set up the freemode jobs and notifications so that the players are antagonistic towards each other, either individually or in opposing crews / organisations / motorcycle gangs. The developer doesn't have to put too much effort into providing AI enemies if the players themselves will be the obstacles to goal success.

 

It is the community who balk at this gameplay, not the developers who in fact encourage it.

Sure, but see this is one of the major downfalls of society. The belief that because someone in higher power condones something, that makes it automatically ok. 

 

We make the game what it is, not Rockstar. Much like how a government may make laws, but that doesn't mean the laws are actually justifiable. 

 

Morality isn't found in a pop up box in the corner of your screen. 

[MaddenedGhost]

from reading some of the replies in here, I'm thinking the ONLY  way I'd be okay with this kind of behavior, is if once someone goes on a sale mission the rest of the players will get a specific vehicle to use against the player doing the sale, for example a Sanchez if other players are doing a bike sell mission, balance the situation by limiting what the other players can us, not have some trash in a jet chasing some player in a Dune FAV..

if you're trying to convince me that you off radar in your jet or akula going after me in a slow post up van is something okay and normal, you're just wasting your time.

Edited June 14, 2018 by The-Ghost

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

16 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

The difference is, the person who steals a bicycle in real-life isn't being encouraged to do so by the seller of new bicycles, contrary to the way it works with Rockstar Games - they sell revenue in the form of shark cards, so obviously, they want you to destroy other people's revenue.

 

Most people appreciate this and kind of wince when it comes to destroying people's cargo because they know they're being coerced down this path by Rockstar for the purposes of ultimately selling shark cards to the victims.

 

It's kind of horribly wrong if you ask me.

This, so much this.

 

We can pretend all we want that R* wanted us to duke it out against other players for supremacy in GTAO or whatever but the truth is that the main reason why this game reeks with pointless, broken PvP at every opportunity is because it drives Shark Card sales, nothing more, nothing less.

 

If this weren't true, then why griefers are free to choose from an arsenal of overpowered vehicles yet the sellers are stuck with sh*t on wheels? Why Associates and MC members get paid so little for helping you? Why the NPCs are so stupidly accurate if other players are meant to be our main threat? Why the global signal is a thing in the first place? Why bullsh*t like the Orbital Cannon is in the game? Why everything is weaponized for the sake of it? Why everything barely profitable is locked behind a Public Only session? Why R* refuses to balance the game even when the game is supposed to be PvP yet it's quick to patch the dupe glitch of the week ASAP?

 

7 minutes ago, The-Ghost said:

from reading some of the replies in here, I'm thinking the ONLY  way I'd be okay with this kind of behavior, is if once someone goes on a sale mission the rest of the players will get a specific vehicle to use against the player doing the sale, for example a Sanchez if other players are doing a bike sell mission, balance the situation by limiting what the other players can us, not have some trash in a jet chasing some player in a Dune FAV..

if you're trying to convince me that you off radar in your jet or akula going after me in a slow post up van is something okay and normal, you're just wasting your time.

I'll do you one better, why not backwards?

 

Let us choose the delivery method, even better, let me either upgrade the delivery vehicles or replace them with my own.

 

Everyone cringes at the sight of a Post Op Boxville, but what about doing drops in Armored Boxvilles or Insurgents instead?

 

The game sells us this idea that we're heads of operations of smuggling, drug and arms traffickers yet we're at the whim of whatever the game chooses to let us drive while avoiding meme cannons and meme cars.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Voodoo-Hendrix

[Big Molio]

11 minutes ago, Mach1bud said:

Sure, but see this is one of the major downfalls of society. The belief that because someone in higher power condones something, that makes it automatically ok. 

 

We make the game what it is, not Rockstar. Much like how a government may make laws, but that doesn't mean the laws are actually justifiable. 

 

Morality isn't found in a pop up box in the corner of your screen. 

Whose morality though? Because every player will have a view on that, and all of them will be different. There is no official consensus on what is acceptable and what isn't regarding destroying cargo, which is why it forms such a perennial debate.

[docpain222]

It's wrong to blow up cargo. The reward is not worth it and like said before, it's a complete jackass thing to do. Always sell in a solo public lobby. (TestNAT:XB1)