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Quinn_flower

The Elder Scrolls VI

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Dryspace
10 hours ago, Pesos said:

every race in Nirn actually share a single common ancestor

I think in Oblivion we learned that that common ancestor was a potato, right?

 

10 hours ago, Pesos said:

I'd much prefer TES VI take cues from Skyrim as opposed to Oblivion, because the latter was utter garbage on many levels

I know what you mean regarding Oblivion. What I consider to be garbage are the dungeons, possibly the creature design, and everything about the Oblivion gates and the Oblivion realm. There are many other faults, but not what I would call garbage. The only things that are done really well are the characters and quests, which far exceed Skyrim, imo.

 

But I don't want Bethesda to take cues from any game--I want them to take everything they've done well to date and iterate upon it, while tossing out what doesn't work, and not messing with what's not broken. Unfortunately, Bethesda has become yet another AAA developer that is willing to compromise the quality of its games for the chance at making super-huge profits instead of merely huge profits.

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DarksunDaFirst
13 hours ago, Pesos said:

This is a very late and spooky reply, but every race in Nirn actually share a single common ancestor (except arguably the Argonians) - man and mer don't have separate origins. The more striking differences are usually down to Aedric or Daedric influence after the fact.

 

Moving on to more recent discussions...

 

I'd much prefer TES VI take cues from Skyrim as opposed to Oblivion, because the latter was utter garbage on many levels as a long time fan and required excessive modding just to salvage an enjoyable playthrough. That's not to say that Skyrim is without its faults, it has many also; a lot of the mechanics it brought to the table were potentially interesting but largely half-baked (houses anyone?). I'll be hoping that whatever the story ends up being in TES 6, that it stays on a more personal, individual level; both Oblivion and Skyrim were littered with battles and these "large scale" moments just fall flat in the game engine and the narrative suffers as a result.

Men and Mer do not have similar origins unless you're going back to the Dawn Era (when Mundus was being created).  Once you get into the Merethic Era do you see that the races were already separated - and for the most part knew nothing of each other until after the elves left Aldmeris for Tamriel.  Men themselves came from Atmora and Yokuda (Redguard).

As for the personal narrative - that's never been the case in Elder Scrolls.  The games themselves have always been about some sort of realm-changing, or world-threatening, event.  The first four games were literally about the ending of the 3rd Era, and the beginning of the end for the Empire ruled by the Septim Dynasty.

I personally think that if they took some of the story-telling elements of the 4th game and integrated it with some of the unique world-building of the 5th title, they would doing themselves a great favor.  Add in some of the character building from the 3rd title, and take lessons from the 5th title of combat mechanics and build something better for the next one.

My big thing is this:  Please let's not do another Men-based story or province.  Summerset Isle (Alinor), Valenwood, Elswyr, Argonia...any of them would be great.  


 

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Pesos
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, DarksunDaFirst said:

Men and Mer do not have similar origins unless you're going back to the Dawn Era (when Mundus was being created).  Once you get into the Merethic Era do you see that the races were already separated - and for the most part knew nothing of each other until after the elves left Aldmeris for Tamriel.  Men themselves came from Atmora and Yokuda (Redguard).

As for the personal narrative - that's never been the case in Elder Scrolls.  The games themselves have always been about some sort of realm-changing, or world-threatening, event.  The first four games were literally about the ending of the 3rd Era, and the beginning of the end for the Empire ruled by the Septim Dynasty.

I personally think that if they took some of the story-telling elements of the 4th game and integrated it with some of the unique world-building of the 5th title, they would doing themselves a great favor.  Add in some of the character building from the 3rd title, and take lessons from the 5th title of combat mechanics and build something better for the next one.

My big thing is this:  Please let's not do another Men-based story or province.  Summerset Isle (Alinor), Valenwood, Elswyr, Argonia...any of them would be great.  


 

The two Ehlnofey are the progenitors of both Man and Mer, is what I'm suggesting, and that's precisely that they are. You kind of need to go back that far away because it's where you pick up a lot of the fundamentals of how the Mundus works and how the races factor into that. Also lets you avoid traps like "all men are from Atmora" which is just Septim Empire propaganda to legitamize the line's claim to the throne, because Man originates from Tamriel; Atmorans and Yokudans are some of the groups that left, with the Nedes being those that remained - Imperials (Cyrods) and Bretons are descended from Nedic peoples and not Atmoran.

 

Perhaps personal was not the best choice of words here, so I'll try again, I'll just go with the blunt instrument since I can't find the right words for it at the moment. The game engine cannot handle large scale battles, so whenever the narrative dips into this sort of thing, it doesn't really work and at least for me, pulls one right out of the experience. Oblivion leans heavily into this, because of the whole full scale Daedric invasion of Tamriel but never really feels as much and the pivotal battle with Martin in Colovia(sp?) also falls flat pretty heavily. Like I said, Skyrim also suffers this pitfall with the civil war - part of the setting and intertwined into the main narrative. You can also compare Morrowind vs Oblivion here in that in one, the player is stopping the Oh sh*t moment actually happening, vs the Oh sh*t moment has already happened and now we're dealing with the consequences there of.

 

Summerset Isle would be a dope setting for the province but it's pretty much certain to be set in Hammerfell. Just a question of whether some/all of High Rock and/or NewNew Orsinium is included. It's odd to retread given Daggerfall already covered both provinces, but the area is pretty fun and sufficiently weird (unless they pull a TES IV and gut every interesting aspect of the setting from previous lore) - I'd have to hope for some Left-Handed Elf stuff thrown in.

Edited by Pesos

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Beato_dim
10 hours ago, DarksunDaFirst said:


My big thing is this:  Please let's not do another Men-based story or province.  Summerset Isle (Alinor), Valenwood, Elswyr, Argonia...any of them would be great.  

Yeah. We had a Mer province in Morrowind, and it turned out great, and no one was turned off just because half of the creatures don't look too human.

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Clem Fandango

Yeah Morrowind wasn't really a personal story it just found excuses not to set up moments that the game engine can't handle. So you're the military leader of the Ashlanders and three of the Great Houses but can't take any troops into Red Mountain because they'll get Corpus, the Great Houses aren't supposed to get along but the engine can't handle battles so they said the Tribubal made them handle their warfare secretly through the Morag Tong. Clever, but takes writing chops that the current team lacks and was still pretty lame. 

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Pesos
Posted (edited)

I wouldn't lump the Dunmeri preference for secret war vs open war in the lame category, personally. The whole shebang is heavily ingrained into their culture and history, long before the Tribunal was a thing. If you divorce them of these ways and the House of Triune, you no longer get Chimer and then Dunmer; you end up at just another group of Altmer. Yawn.

 

Honestly though, I don't think I've ever really given Morrowind's narrative all that much thought after the fact. The Teachings of Vivec and CHIM in particular are far more interesting explorations.

 

If we ever get a Khajitti centric game, I'm hoping that it isn't set in Elsewyr and rather the Khajitti colony(ies) on the moon. Lets get proper weird and see if any of Reman Cyrodill's mannonauts descendants are still chilling up there while we're at it.

Edited by Pesos

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Dryspace
On 6/19/2019 at 11:48 PM, Pesos said:

The two Ehlnofey are the progenitors of both Man and Mer, is what I'm suggesting, and that's precisely that they are. You kind of need to go back that far away because it's where you pick up a lot of the fundamentals of how the Mundus works...

Can one learn all of this information just from playing through all of the games? Or did you have to read supplementary material of one kind or another?

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Pesos

It's been so long since Morrowind (primarily) and I've been thoroughly tainted by scholarly debate & supplementary material that I don't think that I could make the claim that the in game material lays it all out for those that seek it, in good faith.

 

 

I would say that The Monomyth and the Annotated Annuad are solid starting points. There may be more but nothing springs to mind of great importance at the moment.

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DarksunDaFirst
14 hours ago, Pesos said:

 

If we ever get a Khajitti centric game, I'm hoping that it isn't set in Elsewyr and rather the Khajitti colony(ies) on the moon. Lets get proper weird and see if any of Reman Cyrodill's mannonauts descendants are still chilling up there while we're at it.

We would need Elsewyr.

Use the moon for DLC......hoping it could be the next Shivering Isles

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