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Rafae

Take-Two CEO thinks lootboxes are an appropriate game mechanic

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kenmy13999

Depends on the design of the loot box, some I don't approve of others I do.

 

In general, I am not in favour of loot boxes. I'm generally not in favour of microtransactions or in app/in game purchases etc. I feel it's what will kill gaming for me.

Was just going to say that some lootboxes does no harm in my book as long as they doesn't give an unfair advantage you can't get otherwise.

Take the lootboxes in BF1 for example, the only thing you get there is cosmetic skins for your guns that give you no advantage in any way. You can also get some puzzles for some melee weapons or xp boost but none of those gives you any advantage. You also get battlepacks/lootboxes by playing the game also.

This kind of lootboxes isn't any problem in my book but I'm probably just a fanboii defending everything a company does because I don't have problems with these kind of lootboxes and also have accepted that they're most likely here to stay and there's really not much we can do about it, except don't buy the games if it's too much P2W oriented..

I'm not buying rdr2 before I see some reviews on how microtransaction driven it is, if it's worse than gta I certainly won't buy it unless I can dupe some horses or something ;)

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Nutduster

So I guess that's it. Rockstar/Take is becoming another sh*tty company like Ubisoft or EA. They had a good run.

Welcome to 2013.

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APB

Then they can shove GTA 6 and any future products of their`s up their own ass.

What other companies supports this sh*t still in 60+$ games? EA, Activision/Blizzard, who else? There aren`t many left and yet they still support

this sh*t even after sh*t-storms like EA`s.

 

T2/R* won`t be getting money from me anymore. Good luck to the rest who will still buy their next games.

 

 

On a finishing note, can`t wait to hear about dripfeed horses with auto lock rockets locked behind lootboxes in RDR2:O.

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Quinn_flower
Posted (edited)

The only good devs are Sony for now and cd projek red (cyberpunk).

 

 

We lost sp dlc because of online. Rdr is going the same way baka

Edited by Quinn_flower

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Guest

 

Depends on the design of the loot box, some I don't approve of others I do.

 

In general, I am not in favour of loot boxes. I'm generally not in favour of microtransactions or in app/in game purchases etc. I feel it's what will kill gaming for me.

Was just going to say that some lootboxes does no harm in my book as long as they doesn't give an unfair advantage you can't get otherwise.

Take the lootboxes in BF1 for example, the only thing you get there is cosmetic skins for your guns that give you no advantage in any way. You can also get some puzzles for some melee weapons or xp boost but none of those gives you any advantage. You also get battlepacks/lootboxes by playing the game also.

This kind of lootboxes isn't any problem in my book but I'm probably just a fanboii defending everything a company does because I don't have problems with these kind of lootboxes and also have accepted that they're most likely here to stay and there's really not much we can do about it, except don't buy the games if it's too much P2W oriented..

I'm not buying rdr2 before I see some reviews on how microtransaction driven it is, if it's worse than gta I certainly won't buy it unless I can dupe some horses or something ;)

 

Yep, some do little harm but some do more harm than good.

 

I'm all for businesses making maximum amount of money, that's their end goal as a business really - fail that, the business fails.

 

There is only one kind of good loot box, which FH3 used. Free spins every time you rank up. You can buy more with in game money if you want to. Even though some items give an advantage I'm OK with that since they aren't unattainable.

 

Any loot box which does not have a method to gain them for free I am against. Forza 7 for instance, you must buy them, no bonus boxes for ranking up. WWE2K18 you get the very very occasional free box, it's not occasional enough.

 

Not only that though, one thing that really bugged me about WWE2K18 was that everything is locked and requires loot boxes to unlock. While these items are cosmetic, t-shirts, hats, hair etc. it just pissed me off. I can see this being the case for other titles, and since 2K was acquired by T2, it doesn't give me much hope for future R* titles.

 

 

The other thing, which is making me slowly change my mind about micro transactions and loot boxes is that it's so tempting for kids. We all know kids play all games (that's a different issue), take GTA for example, Shark Cards are so tempting to them. Get all this good sh*t fast with a shark card... Begging parents for money to waste on virtual crap (that you never even own). or worse, there are far too many stories about little Jimmy who took his mums credit card from her bag, popped the details in to their xbox live gold account details and spent thousands in minutes on micro transactions and loot boxes. Jimmy has no idea about money, he's 7! And I know that the xbone has zero security checks so this sh*t can happen far too easily.

 

 

f*ck it. I'm against loot boxes and micro transactions now. But like it or not, they are here. We can threaten to boycott but really, does anyone ever stand by that threat?

 

 

So I guess that's it. Rockstar/Take is becoming another sh*tty company like Ubisoft or EA. They had a good run.

Welcome to 2013.

 

Give them some credit, they got to late 2014/early 2015 before going totally sh*tty.

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Nutduster
Posted (edited)

The only good devs are Sony for now and cd projek red (cyberpunk).

 

 

There are others. I'm glad Sony is staying the course for the most part. Horizon Zero Dawn's developer has done a tremendous job with that game - the DLC had loads of good content for a reasonable price, and they were one of the best I've seen in the months after release about bug-fixing and patching in much-requested features.

 

 

 

So I guess that's it. Rockstar/Take is becoming another sh*tty company like Ubisoft or EA. They had a good run.

Welcome to 2013.

 

Give them some credit, they got to late 2014/early 2015 before going totally sh*tty.

 

 

Shark cards were in there from launch, and they nerfed payouts and patched quick-to-complete missions within the first month or two that the game was out. The writing was on the wall. It got worse later, of course.

Edited by Nutduster

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Conici
Posted (edited)

Just because one country has a firm stand against lootboxes, it's just one country, and a tiny one like Belgium of all nations. Had it been a more powerful country like the United States, it would have made a much bigger strike against these corporations, but we all know that's not happening anytime soon.

 

 

 

Someone doesn't understand the significance of Belgium

 

but yeah OT: This type of lootbox mechanic is predatory and quite frankly disgusting; it's one thing to have loot box sh*t in crappy tap the pigeon games for mobile devices but to have the kind of microtransaction lootbox gambling nonsense in 60+ dollar AAA titles is outrageous and it won't be long until we see these games regulated. This golden goose will stop soon

Edited by Conici

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Lonely-Martin

It's not just the companies that can exploit the kids out there, many times I've read a story where adult players are looking to screw kids out of their prizes/bought loot. You hear it in GTA back on old gen, they ask for cash, arseholes make them hop through hoops and f*ck them up all too often.

 

The post from Big Molio in another thread long ago that I forget where, lol, is an excellent example. IIRC, players in Rocket League can share stuff/trick naive players into passing things over. If I'm right in remembering that, then that to me is something that must be regulated, IMHO.

 

Of course, parents should be involved with their children to protect them from this stuff, but also, we as parents should be able to let our kids play games after all in peace and safe without constant monitoring.

 

Like Demonic just said, all it takes is a lil' one running off with a bank card these days, and parents are being met with big bills indeed. Not just loot boxes/MT's of course, lol. PS4 is just as easy as Xbox it seems. Certainly nothing stopped me putting a fake DOB and buy online as the primary on the PS4 from boxed.

 

Many parents just don't care about videogames too or left them behind in their youth, these are very suseptical to these things, they often think of consoles as safe as in their day, they were as the internet didn't come into it, lol.

 

We already know just here in GTA how unsupervised some really young children are out there. Other games aimed at young audiences like Rocket League or WWE and such can't hide behind the '18' on the box. We need more casual parents to learn more, IMO.

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kenmy13999

 

Does it say that they're going to have loot boxes in RDR2? Just skimmed through the article..

common horse

common horse

common horse

common horse

chrome horse woooooooo

Meh, I want a gold horse ;)

 

 

KWF1981, that kind of trading system shouldn't be allowed in the first place imo, lootboxes or not

I think I remember some of the post in the thread you're referring to, was not a pleasant reading iirc

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Jenkiiii

Get used to it.

 

I don't want to dissect individual comments as it seems to do more harm than good and detracts from the overall message that lootboxes are an ugly way to move forward.

 

But why should we get used to it?

 

Their contents are random! It doesn't matter whether you financially purchase lootboxes, or get them at the end of activities, or are awarded them for 'free', you should never be working, spending or grinding towards something that is random. GTA online has historically been based on the foundation that there is always a way to get the things you want, and even though Rockstar have introduced some dirty tactics recently, this fundamental principle remains in place. You can have everything 'at a price'.

 

Strauss Zelnick hedges his bets and never gives exact information about Rockstar's future plans, and always suggests the possibility of this or the plausibility of that. I respect Strauss Zelnick in the same way that I respect a fox for sneaking into the chicken house. He's a 'smart' guy but also rather despicable and slimy. It works for him, of that I'm sure.

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Voodoo-Hendrix

While boycotting may not work anymore, the only thing we have left is asking for goverment regulation of such practices.

 

And yeah, I know that having the goverment regulating anything can always go wrong, but this time it's the only way to actually force game developers to stop with these predatory tactics.

 

I mean, when you have the ESRB, an association that was created for the purpose of avoiding goverment regulation because of Mortal Kombat in the 90's, basically doing jacksh*t to fix the issue, well, that means we need to get more drastic measures.

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Big Molio
Posted (edited)

It's not just the companies that can exploit the kids out there, many times I've read a story where adult players are looking to screw kids out of their prizes/bought loot. You hear it in GTA back on old gen, they ask for cash, arseholes make them hop through hoops and f*ck them up all too often.

 

The post from Big Molio in another thread long ago that I forget where, lol, is an excellent example. IIRC, players in Rocket League can share stuff/trick naive players into passing things over. If I'm right in remembering that, then that to me is something that must be regulated, IMHO.

 

Of course, parents should be involved with their children to protect them from this stuff, but also, we as parents should be able to let our kids play games after all in peace and safe without constant monitoring.

 

Like Demonic just said, all it takes is a lil' one running off with a bank card these days, and parents are being met with big bills indeed. Not just loot boxes/MT's of course, lol. PS4 is just as easy as Xbox it seems. Certainly nothing stopped me putting a fake DOB and buy online as the primary on the PS4 from boxed.

 

Many parents just don't care about videogames too or left them behind in their youth, these are very suseptical to these things, they often think of consoles as safe as in their day, they were as the internet didn't come into it, lol.

 

We already know just here in GTA how unsupervised some really young children are out there. Other games aimed at young audiences like Rocket League or WWE and such can't hide behind the '18' on the box. We need more casual parents to learn more, IMO.

 

How it worked if I remember right was that the Crates on Rocket League are won free, but you have to pay real money for the keys to open them. I lost my sh*t when I could hear adult blokes through my son's TV speakers trying to coerce him, an 8 year old, to use HIS keys to open THEIR crates. That's when I got on the mic and they logged out straight away.

 

This is why I have calmed down on GTAO. Being on here has opened my eyes a bit, and despite it being an adult title, there are a lot of kids and teenagers playing this game who don't have access to the kind of money to get themselves ahead with Shark Cards.

 

Sad to see which way it is all going. I don't mind the principle of paying for ongoing content, and online games are marketing themselves as a service. Somebody has to pay to have that content developed and produced, but it has to be of quality and reasonably positioned price wise, neither of which is happening across the industry.

Edited by Big Molio

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JustCallMeNiko

I took the time to read the linked article and he is supporting the position that loot boxes shouldn't be legislated as a form of gambling...I actually have to agree the government shouldn't be deciding how publishers develop content...

 

For years I've personally avoided games that required additional spending to unlock content and that's one reason I've enjoyed GTA for so long. I also now realize that the reason I keep getting new content for a game I enjoy is because someone out there is paying for it.

 

Gaming has evolved and for any game to last and flourish it needs either a subscription model or microtransactions. It is still up to the player base to decide if the content provided is worth the price they are being charged but the days of buying a standalone game are pretty much done.

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Nutduster

 

Get used to it.

 

I don't want to dissect individual comments as it seems to do more harm than good and detracts from the overall message that lootboxes are an ugly way to move forward.

 

But why should we get used to it?

 

Their contents are random! It doesn't matter whether you financially purchase lootboxes, or get them at the end of activities, or are awarded them for 'free', you should never be working, spending or grinding towards something that is random.

 

Ehhhh. RNG loot has a storied place in gaming history. You can't really play an RPG without random loot getting in the mix somewhere; apart from the special crates and more overt examples, even GTA has a long history of random loot, albeit on an extremely inconsequential level - NPCs drop random amounts of cash and snacks when they die. If the game is made well, things even out over the long run, as the game should account for bad drops and make sure you eventually get a good one, and specific rare items are made to always come up once, eventually, as long as you keep playing.

 

I don't particularly have a problem with some amount of RNG, as long as it's done thoughtfully and they make sure you won't get screwed over by too long a run of bad luck, or have to grind for days and days just to get something worth getting. I only have a problem with it if A) it's NOT done thoughtfully, and players end up chasing ghosts of loot that can't be caught without monumental effort; or B) they charge you for it. Particularly the second one. Once real-world money enters the mix, we should not be made to PAY for only a small chance at something of value. That is the real downside of lootboxes, and the developers know good and well the psychological button they are pressing by including it.

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Rafae

I took the time to read the linked article and he is supporting the position that loot boxes shouldn't be legislated as a form of gambling...I actually have to agree the government shouldn't be deciding how publishers develop content...

 

For years I've personally avoided games that required additional spending to unlock content and that's one reason I've enjoyed GTA for so long. I also now realize that the reason I keep getting new content for a game I enjoy is because someone out there is paying for it.

 

Gaming has evolved and for any game to last and flourish it needs either a subscription model or microtransactions. It is still up to the player base to decide if the content provided is worth the price they are being charged but the days of buying a standalone game are pretty much done.

When it comes to predatory practices like lootboxes, the government should intervene as much as they possibly can if publishers still think it's ok to use them.

 

Games need subscriptions or microtransactions to last? Right, because making a quality single player experience and leaving it at that has worked so terribly in the past right? They don't need this sh*t, the publishers just want it there to squeeze as much money as they can from the people that buy their games. Businesses will never say no to more money and if the opportunity is there, no matter how slimy or shady, you best believe they'll take advantage of it. It's scummy, it's shady and it's f*cking disgusting.

 

Rockstar made 6bn just from the sales of the base game alone, and of course they were smart enough to package Online with it. From a financial perspective, they don't need micros at all. But that doesn't mean they won't take advantage of it and tailor the entire game experience around it.

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JustCallMeNiko
Posted (edited)

When it comes to predatory practices like lootboxes, the government should intervene as much as they possibly can if publishers still think it's ok to use them.

 

Games need subscriptions or microtransactions to last? Right, because making a quality single player experience and leaving it at that has worked so terribly in the past right? They don't need this sh*t, the publishers just want it there to squeeze as much money as they can from the people that buy their games. Businesses will never say no to more money and if the opportunity is there, no matter how slimy or shady, you best believe they'll take advantage of it. It's scummy, it's shady and it's f*cking disgusting.

 

Rockstar made 6bn just from the sales of the base game alone, and of course they were smart enough to package Online with it. From a financial perspective, they don't need micros at all. But that doesn't mean they won't take advantage of it and tailor the entire game experience around it.

If what you want is a quality single player experience without an online component you got it way back in 2013. I absolutely agree that offline content should have no additional cost or online requirement to play it.

 

The only reason R* keep making money on sales of the base game is because it is required to play online...if it wasn't those sales would be gone long ago...the online component is what is keeping GTA alive now and it needs a way to continue to generate revenue...

 

Also, we need to realize how much of an exception GTA is within the gaming industry...it's easy to point at a company making sick money and call them greedy for wanting more but what about all the other publishers with games that are closer to just breaking even? Many publishers of great content go out of business because they can't find a way to make it profitable...

 

Basically if a game is going to maintain an online player base it needs content updates to keep them engaged and someone needs to pay for it. The exception for me here are sports games...it seems like a real ripoff to purchase a whole new game every year AND still pay extras to play online...maybe I'm just spoiled by GTA though...

Edited by JustCallMeNiko

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Matrelith

I'll wait and see how RDR2 turns out before jumping to any conclusions.

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FukNRekd

Well this has put the final nail in the RDR2O coffin for me before it's even announced. I'll eventually play SP and leave it at that.

 

As for GTA Next, doubt I'll even buy it unless the gaming industry does a 180 turn. I'm not playing any game that has loot boxes.

 

It's sad to think the current GTAO might well be the last R* game I fully immerse myself in.

Current GTA is the first AND LAST of Cockstar's games I will ever buy.

 

Not another f*cking dime.

 

And voodoo, all due respect, but your good intentions are highly misplaced (r.e. having .gov put their grubby fingers all over this.)

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Quinn_flower

I'll wait and see how RDR2 turns out before jumping to any conclusions.

dont be shocked based on how much gta made

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Cutter De Blanc
Posted (edited)

 

Just because one country has a firm stand against lootboxes, it's just one country, and a tiny one like Belgium of all nations. Had it been a more powerful country like the United States, it would have made a much bigger strike against these corporations, but we all know that's not happening anytime soon.

Someone doesn't understand the significance of Belgium

 

Maybe you could explain it instead of being like "oh Im so much smarter"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_gaming_in_Belgium

 

Not sure how they are more significant than another country? Do tell

 

i mean there's this, but it's just an opinion article

 

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2018/apr/26/belgium-is-right-to-legislate-against-video-game-loot-boxes

Edited by Cutter De Blanc

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FukNRekd

 

 

Just because one country has a firm stand against lootboxes, it's just one country, and a tiny one like Belgium of all nations. Had it been a more powerful country like the United States, it would have made a much bigger strike against these corporations, but we all know that's not happening anytime soon.

Someone doesn't understand the significance of Belgium
Maybe you could explain it instead of being like "oh Im so much smarter"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_gaming_in_Belgium

 

Not sure how they are more significant than another country? Do tell

Mebbe he was referring to himself? :blink:

 

/s

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LL Cool L

I hope people are directing their anger to the actual Take Two CEO and not the whole "cockstar sucks" rubbish

 

Is this an example of Rockstar being an innocent game developer that has to answer to someone? or is cockstar still a thing here?

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FukNRekd
Posted (edited)

It's not just lootboxes. It's Cockstar's entire approach to separating you from your IRL money. Not to mention the lazy f*cking devs and all the glitches that they are fully aware of which drain your patience in the hopes of you buying a shark card out of frustration.

 

And yes, Cockstar sucks. They are rubbish.

Edited by FukNRekd

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Mas u Sees

The sheer inability to read on some peoples behalf is just staggering.

 

All he is saying, is completely expected, this has nothing to do with Red Dead Online and whether it includes Loot Boxes or not. I actually highly doubt it will.

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Cutter De Blanc

 

 

 

Just because one country has a firm stand against lootboxes, it's just one country, and a tiny one like Belgium of all nations. Had it been a more powerful country like the United States, it would have made a much bigger strike against these corporations, but we all know that's not happening anytime soon.

Someone doesn't understand the significance of Belgium

 

Maybe you could explain it instead of being like "oh Im so much smarter"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_gaming_in_Belgium

 

Not sure how they are more significant than another country? Do tell

 

Mebbe he was referring to himself? :blink:

 

/s

 

Genuinely wondering what the significance of Belgium is supposed to be? I mean worst case scenario, they don't sell the loot box games in Belgium. Doesn't look like Belgium is some huge income source for them vs other countries, so I'm wondering what this guy means

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Giantsgiants

"Times changing" is one of the biggest logical fallacies I have heard.

 

The notion that games these days need microtransactions and/or lootboxes to survive is false, false, false. This kind of stuff is pure trying to shadily extract more money from you.

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Mazawattee

Oh god no.

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Rafae

The sheer inability to read on some peoples behalf is just staggering.

 

All he is saying, is completely expected, this has nothing to do with Red Dead Online and whether it includes Loot Boxes or not. I actually highly doubt it will.

I wish I knew how it felt to be so naive

 

 

 

Actually scratch that no I don't.

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Mas u Sees

 

The sheer inability to read on some peoples behalf is just staggering.

 

All he is saying, is completely expected, this has nothing to do with Red Dead Online and whether it includes Loot Boxes or not. I actually highly doubt it will.

I wish I knew how it felt to be so naive

 

 

 

Actually scratch that no I don't.

 

The fact that you would call me "naive" is beyond ludicrous. You are the one going apesh*t, without actually having READ THE STATEMENT of his.

Read what he said, and if you still believe it means "LOOTBOXES DUHH", you are the one lacking either reading comprehension, or are simply incapable of processing logical thought, without your idiomatic agenda blinding you.

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Mazawattee

this has nothing to do with Red Dead Online and whether it includes Loot Boxes or not. I actually highly doubt it will.

RDO might not, but who knows about GTAO II at this point. For all we know, the shark card will probably get replaced with lootboxes entirely. What would they call them? Shark tanks?

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