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ivarblaauw

Red Dead Online: Discussion & Speculation

Recommended Posts

Commander S
12 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

Imran Sarwar did comment on his opinion towards online but I doubt any of the Original GTA V developers even have anything to do with gta o. They most likely were moved to the next projects like RDR2 and left a small team who have no idea what GTA is to control online. 


Well, GTAO was Benzies' brainchild - according to most accounts, he was the one who pushed for it, while the Housers are still largely more interested in their established single-player, Hollywood-influenced narrative formula (Dan particularly). But obviously he's not even with the company these days - although it's telling that his new post-R* project, Everywhere, sounds a lot like the sort of 'highly-interactive online space where anything is possible' idea that

 

Meanwhile, Imran Sarwar went from being the lead mission designer for GTA V (doing things like the single-player heists, for example), to heading up the GTAO team - and as such (plus his promotion to overall director of design at R* North), he's in the driving seat for GTAO's overall direction, probably starting as soon as all the originally-planned things like Heists were completed. Additions like Freemode Events and Adversary Modes are his contributions, for example - and it's pretty clear in interviews that he's more about 'games as entertainment' than Benzies' more 'games as virtual worlds' design philosophy.

 

For instance, there's a 2013 interview with Benzies, where he cites the original character creator as one of the things he's proud of with GTAO - the idea being that pulling noses and ears around isn't how real people work (to paraphrase him, real people are created by 'two parents, and some sexy-time - and then out pops your character'), hence the genetics/heritage system. Not the most convenient approach to character creation (and it says a lot that when the game got re-released on current-gen - after Benzies was probably already out at R* - the game got a more conventional character creation system added), but you've got to respect the dedication to realism, at least.

 

Conversely, Sarwar's approach to GTAO Heists: part of the reason for the long delay was that they found that doing things in a realistic way was less "fun" - after all, if Pac Standard were handled realistically, you'd have one person sat outside waiting in the car while the others did all the exiting stuff, followed by one person driving while everyone else twiddles their thumbs in the passenger seats. So instead, Sarwar and co. changed the format so everyone does something at all times - for example, Pac Standard ends with everyone riding a bike, rather than sharing one getaway car. If Benzies believes that immersion is "fun", then Sarwar definitely seems like someone for whom immersion can be sacrificed in the name of "fun".

 

 

...it's all moot, because Sarwar's still handling GTAO, Benzies is running his own thing, Sam and Dan aren't involved with Online (certainly not beyond launch, and probably not at all), and so Red Dead Online almost definitely has someone else in charge (anyone know who R* San Diego's director of design is, by any chance?). It remains to be seen what their attitude is to the direction of RDO - and whether they're going to try and do their own thing spinning out of single-player, or follow the example of GTAO, or something else entirely.

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TheSantader25
9 minutes ago, Commander S said:


Well, GTAO was Benzies' brainchild - according to most accounts, he was the one who pushed for it, while the Housers are still largely more interested in their established single-player, Hollywood-influenced narrative formula (Dan particularly). But obviously he's not even with the company these days - although it's telling that his new post-R* project, Everywhere, sounds a lot like the sort of 'highly-interactive online space where anything is possible' idea that

 

Meanwhile, Imran Sarwar went from being the lead mission designer for GTA V (doing things like the single-player heists, for example), to heading up the GTAO team - and as such (plus his promotion to overall director of design at R* North), he's in the driving seat for GTAO's overall direction, probably starting as soon as all the originally-planned things like Heists were completed. Additions like Freemode Events and Adversary Modes are his contributions, for example - and it's pretty clear in interviews that he's more about 'games as entertainment' than Benzies' more 'games as virtual worlds' design philosophy.

 

For instance, there's a 2013 interview with Benzies, where he cites the original character creator as one of the things he's proud of with GTAO - the idea being that pulling noses and ears around isn't how real people work (to paraphrase him, real people are created by 'two parents, and some sexy-time - and then out pops your character'), hence the genetics/heritage system. Not the most convenient approach to character creation (and it says a lot that when the game got re-released on current-gen - after Benzies was probably already out at R* - the game got a more conventional character creation system added), but you've got to respect the dedication to realism, at least.

 

Conversely, Sarwar's approach to GTAO Heists: part of the reason for the long delay was that they found that doing things in a realistic way was less "fun" - after all, if Pac Standard were handled realistically, you'd have one person sat outside waiting in the car while the others did all the exiting stuff, followed by one person driving while everyone else twiddles their thumbs in the passenger seats. So instead, Sarwar and co. changed the format so everyone does something at all times - for example, Pac Standard ends with everyone riding a bike, rather than sharing one getaway car. If Benzies believes that immersion is "fun", then Sarwar definitely seems like someone for whom immersion can be sacrificed in the name of "fun".

 

 

...it's all moot, because Sarwar's still handling GTAO, Benzies is running his own thing, Sam and Dan aren't involved with Online (certainly not beyond launch, and probably not at all), and so Red Dead Online almost definitely has someone else in charge (anyone know who R* San Diego's director of design is, by any chance?). It remains to be seen what their attitude is to the direction of RDO - and whether they're going to try and do their own thing spinning out of single-player, or follow the example of GTAO, or something else entirely.

The things we're seeing as the new adversary modes or the new doomsday heist do not look like sarwar's work at all for me. GTA V story heists and GTA O first set of heists are really fun and manage to somewhat keep realism and fun balanced. GTA V had a good mission design and despite being more Over the top than IV's mission design, it managed to find the formula between realism and fun. However I truly doubt that the things we've seen in the past two years are anything like sarwar's work. I'm a fan of his mission structure and these stuff do not look like his style. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Commander S
9 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

The things we're seeing as the new adversary modes or the new doomsday heist do not look like sarwar's work at all for me. GTA V story heists and GTA O first set of heists are really fun and manage to somewhat keep realism and fun balanced. GTA V had a good mission design and despite being more Over the top than IV's mission design, it managed to find the formula between realism and fun. However I truly doubt that the things we've seen in the past two years are anything like sarwar's work. I'm a fan of his mission structure and these stuff does not look like his style. 

 

That's the thing, though - seems you've got that backwards. Sarwar is literally 'Mr. GTAO' - he's been project lead since finishing up his work on GTA V single-player, and as director of design at R* North, he's in charge of all things GTAO. Meanwhile, for GTA V, while he was involved with specific mission design, the big, overarching design decisions came from Sam Houser and Leslie Benzies (Dan Houser being more in control of narrative direction, what with being lead writer and all).

 

If anything, the reason why RDR2 sounds like it's going to be another solid R* single-player game (and one that continues to expand and evolve the R* open-world formula) is because Dan and Sam are sticking to what they've always done, even without Benzies' involvement this time. And they've almost certainly had nothing to do with GTAO over the last several years (if at all) - meanwhile, again, Imran Sarwar's job is literally 'oversee ongoing development of GTAO', and has been ...since 2013. The only difference between early GTAO and more recent GTAO is that during the pre-production phase of GTA V and Online (i.e., the state of GTAO at launch), Benzies was still calling the shots at the very top, and thus it took a while before Sarwar's contributions started to define the state of the game.

 

Or, put simply: early GTAO started with Sarwar following Benzies' direction - now, it's just Sarwar calling the shots. And I'd even argue that what makes him a good mission designer is what makes him a less-than-perfect visionary for Online as a whole. Prioritising entertainment value makes for fun individual missions, but that worked in GTA V as just part of the bigger, more realistic whole. If you treat the whole thing as just a big, fun 'theme park', then that's going to come at the expense of verisimilitude.

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MC_HaMMaSTiX

 The fact that it took 3 (?) years to get a 7/10 Biker DLC is reason enough for me to want new or different people to handle RDO.

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DexMacLeod
On 6/22/2018 at 11:55 AM, MC_HaMMaSTiX said:

 The fact that it took 3 (?) years to get a 7/10 Biker DLC is reason enough for me to want new or different people to handle RDO.

Right? And then that DLC's missions had you driving UPS trucks and flying planes almost as much as you were riding motorcycles.

 

What's worse is it took even longer for them to release a DLC that was centered around stealing cars. Like, did they forget what GTA stands for?

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PvTails
On 6/22/2018 at 9:55 AM, MC_HaMMaSTiX said:

 The fact that it took 3 (?) years to get a 7/10 Biker DLC is reason enough for me to want new or different people to handle RDO.

That's not even a good reason, you could of gotten no dlc at all.

Especially with the story has been focused on screwing with MC gangs with Trevor and such.

Professional Organized Crime has been the focus of V/Online.  

Edited by PvTails

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We Are Ninja

I logged into RDR Online for the first time ever today. It was scary similar to GTAO... One troll on the bestest horse available, with the most powerful gun available, griefing everything in site. Good times.

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Commander S
5 hours ago, DexMacLeod said:

Right? And then that DLC's missions had you driving UPS trucks and flying planes almost as much as you were riding motorcycles.

 

What's worse is it took even longer for them to release a DLC that was centered around stealing cars. Like, did they forget what GTA stands for?

 

I still reckon that a lot of the business side of the Bikers update was stuff originally meant as just another CEO/SecuroServ expansion (why are biker gangs running a document forgery operation?), but that whole MC crew push for a biker-themed update made them rustle up a dozen bikes with shared modular components (because that's a quick way of getting more bikes made in a shorter time), a clubhouse interior, and then ...bolt largely unrelated activities on to the whole thing.

 

(I'll give them a free pass on GTA not always being literally about GTA - even as far back as III, you're more of a getaway drive/hired muscle type than primarily a carjacker...)

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1898
6 hours ago, DexMacLeod said:

Right? And then that DLC's missions had you driving UPS trucks and flying planes almost as much as you were riding motorcycles.

 

 

Yeah. For me the MC was the best idea they ever had for GTA but they ruined it.

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