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Gerald Ford

Win32 Apps

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Gerald Ford
Posted (edited)
So, I've experimented with various programming languages (C# with Unity and Windows Form Apps in VS, C++ in school with Dev C++ and I followed a good part of a Python couse on Codecademy), today I discovered Win32 Applications in Visual C++, now, is it normal that I don't really understand the syntax and stuff? I was watching a video analyzing the WinMain function, I did undestand some of the things that were explained, but it was FAR too complicated for me (17 Years old). Also I left the Python course, not because I didn't understand (it was pretty easy) but because I didn't really know how to start coding Python on my own (which IDE etc.)

 

Now since Windows Form Apps are very easy for me to understand and to program, I want to know do serious developers really develop windows form apps? Also is knowing how to program a Win32 essential to become a programmer?

So, I've experimented with various programming languages (C# with Unity and Windows Form Apps in VS, C++ in school with Dev C++ and I followed a good part of a Python couse on Codecademy), today I discovered Win32 Applications in Visual C++, now, is it normal that I don't really understand the syntax and stuff? I was watching a video analyzing the WinMain function, I did undestand some of the things that were explained, but it was FAR too complicated for me (17 Years old). Also I left the Python course, not because I didn't understand (it was pretty easy) but because I didn't really know how to start coding Python on my own (which IDE etc.)

 

Now since Windows Form Apps are very easy for me to understand and to program, I want to know do serious developers really develop windows form apps? Also is knowing how to program a Win32 essential to become a programmer?

Sorry for the formatting

Edited by Gerald Ford

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K^2

Nobody's doing form apps. You have to know how to use the API to interface with whatever OS you happen to be coding for. WinMain is a good sample of what Windows API is like. So if you plan to develop Windows apps, you'll have to get used to it. Fortunately, it's all pretty well documented on MSDN, so that's a good place to start with WinMain as well.

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trip

We are years behind because of the nature of my work but we still do some forms apps. Not only do we do Winform stuff but we have a huge important system that is all Oracle Forms.

 

I'm not necessarily endorsing (that semi)old school drag and drop visual form application development. I'm just pointing out how old school I am forced to work.

 

The world became a great place with exposed API's. Well...the well documented APIs.

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K^2

Microsoft has been absolutely killing it for the past few years in terms of API documentation and tools. They still have a lot of catching up to do in some areas to make up for decades of horrible API, but we're already at a point where I'd much rather work with Windows API than POSIX (Unix/Linux/OSX).

 

MSVC compiler is also really good. They are still behind LLVM/CLang in terms of error message usefulness, but they are on par with CLang for C++ standard compliance, including the entire C++17 feature set, and MSVC absolutely kicks ass in terms of optimization. The SIMD optimization of floating point math is brilliant, and neither LLVM nor GCC do anything remotely this good. Now that Microsoft is starting to push more into cross-platform and embedded development, they can start seriously pushing out GNU in a lot of markets.

 

If you'd tell me ten years ago that I'd be geeking out over Visual Studio now, I'd call you a liar, and threaten to sue for defamation of character, but here we are.

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trip

If you'd tell me ten years ago that I'd be geeking out over Visual Studio now, I'd call you a liar, and threaten to sue for defamation of character, but here we are.

Ha. I hear ya. Growing up with ansi c and the vi editor...

 

I'm actually bummed out about my bad attitude towards .net when it came out because I always associated it with visual basic. I was ignorant and stubbor towards visual basic and just assumed it was a more current version of BASIC. I missed years of learning .net from the ground floor...funny since somewhere I have paperwork claiming I'm a .net professional.

 

 

I love Visual Studio. I live in Visual Studio.

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K^2

I still use vim at work. If it ain't broke. But a big part of that is having to work with both C++ and JavaScript both on a local machine (OSX) and several SSH sessions into various flavors of *nix. I'd have to have five different IDEs opened up if I wasn't comfortable with just using vim for everything.

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Furry_Monkey

Nobody's doing form apps.

Lol. Okay so the last 20+ years of my career didn't happen then.

 

Sure, technology has changed a LOT in that time and focus has shifted heavily towards browser based applications, but saying that nobody makes Windows forms apps is absolutely incorrect and utterly ludicrous.

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K^2

If I said, "nobody uses horse-drawn buggies for transportation anymore," you could, technically, point me at some Amish farmers, and be, technically, correct. Yet, nobody would argue in good faith that this statement is invalid as a generalization. This is not something that's done in modern society at large. And if you're looking for somebody to fix your buggy, and act like it's strange that you can't find good shop to take care of it, you're the one who's acting strange at the end of the day. Because nobody uses horse-drawn buggies anymore.

 

If you are working at a place that's still using Windows form apps, you have my sincere commiserations. There is no legitimate reason to do this in the modern day. There are plethora of platforms far better suitable for any tasks where you might need a form, providing greater flexibility and access to modern APIs. But yeah, some firms insist on sticking to decades old code-bases, because they've deluded themselves into think that it's going to be cheaper. And that just never is the case in the long run.

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Furry_Monkey

If I said, "nobody uses horse-drawn buggies for transportation anymore," you could, technically, point me at some Amish farmers, and be, technically, correct. Yet, nobody would argue in good faith that this statement is invalid as a generalization. This is not something that's done in modern society at large. And if you're looking for somebody to fix your buggy, and act like it's strange that you can't find good shop to take care of it, you're the one who's acting strange at the end of the day. Because nobody uses horse-drawn buggies anymore.

 

If you are working at a place that's still using Windows form apps, you have my sincere commiserations. There is no legitimate reason to do this in the modern day. There are plethora of platforms far better suitable for any tasks where you might need a form, providing greater flexibility and access to modern APIs. But yeah, some firms insist on sticking to decades old code-bases, because they've deluded themselves into think that it's going to be cheaper. And that just never is the case in the long run.

 

You very clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Sure, you clearly know some portion of software development but what you're saying about windows forms apps is just ludicrously and vastly incorrect. I'm not expressing an opinion about this - I am stating an actual literal everyday fact. If you don't know that then it doesn't mean it's wrong. Say what you like, but you are wrong.

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K^2

I've professionally worked on games, servers, tools, and mobile applications. I'm not entirely sure which "portion of software development" I'm not qualified in. I also work in The Valley. Ten minute drive from Google, Facebook, and Microsoft main campuses. Google being one of my past work places. I understand that some parts of the world are significantly behind on how things are done, but we know how to do software here. That's pretty much all we know.

 

Among many other options, dropping in a Chromium engine is objectively a better way to deal with forms. You'll be able to provide a better user experience at a fraction of a cost, because you can have more junior engineers on the team productively contributing to development. Never mind countless tool-kits specifically designed for dealing with user input. If you are working with Windows Forms because you are supporting legacy code, that's at least some excuse. It's not far-sighted, but it's an excuse. If you're starting a new project with Windows Forms, you're just doing it wrong.

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Furry_Monkey
Posted (edited)

I've professionally worked in many places for 20+ years, but whatever. I'm not gonna argue with you about it with a blinkered know-it-all. I know the way it is - you say the way you prefer.

Edited by Furry_Monkey

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Jason Statham

I have developed some small apps with Wondows Forms but yeah VS 2013 Community version and higher has no ATL supports. And who would spend many time with WinMain? I would like to go to c# but I really cannot understand the language since I'm coding with c++. And there is this for c++ applications with nice UI: https://www.qt.io/.

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