Should the Orbital Cannon be removed?

[Nutduster]

 

 

 

The arguments are moot. Because I have called them out to be moot does not mean I am for the cannon.

They're not though. I've responded to you extensively in good faith and you stopped replying. You are entitled to your opinions, I suppose, but I think 95% of players would agree that it's a lot more work on average to kill another player with a Buzzard than to orbital cannon them. And inarguably there is a lot more risk (not just on average, but 100% of the time) flying a Buzzard around than sitting in your facility looking at a list of players you could kill. Even ghost org'ed and being maximally sneaky, the Buzzard can be destroyed while you're searching for that easy homing missile kill; in your facility, you are God, looking down on Earth for a person to smite.

 

There's nothing moot about that argument, it's the simple truth of two very different game mechanics. You cannot say that on a fundamental level a weapon that MIGHT get you an easy kill is the same as a weapon that never does anything but that, or that a weapon which makes you vulnerable is the same as a weapon you can use in absolute, assured safety where other players cannot possibly kill you.

 

I disagree.

 

If you're calling for it to be removed due to effortless kills you also need to call for autoaim, homing rockets, passive mode, voting to kick, the oppressor, ruiner, deluxo, proxy mines, kuruma, insurgent etc to be removed too.

 

 

No. For the reason why, see all of my previous posts on this that you failed to address in the slightest. Or maybe just make a counter-argument to the one you just quoted, for that matter, instead of simply saying "I disagree." For this debate to continue, you need to disagree with my specific points rather than just the general sentiment, because I already knew that part.

 

This one mechanic has nothing to do with anything else you listed. It is its own thing and its problems are very different - orders of magnitude different, and larger. But for what it's worth - and now I'm basically just repeating myself - if the game were mine to improve, I would also remove lock-on of homing rockets against any player-controlled vehicle but aircraft; I would remove the homing launcher entirely; I would add a cooldown to passive mode use, triggered anytime you kill another player, so that it can't be abused by tryhards and trolls; I would modify vote-kicking in ways I won't go into here; I would remove weapons from every meme vehicle, bar none; I would probably remove prox mines; and there's nothing wrong with the Kuruma and Insurgent, the counters to them are plentiful and effective. Satisfied?

Edited April 27, 2018 by Nutduster

[Guest]

"Vote to kick"

"Effortless kill"

Do you honestly NEED to have the last word on every thread you comment? I mean come the f*ck on, you're not defending the cannon and you say its a stupid design, yet it shouldn't be removed because there are other stupid tools in the game?

I would say that it all boils down to whether or not removing it makes the game better, but knowing you, you'd probably derail the thread into "define a better game".

The discussion wasn't over with my last post, I don't see how that's having the last word. However, if you believe this to be true and it urks you that much you can ignore my posts, there is a handy feature which will stop them appearing unless you click the link - use it if I bother you that much.

 

Did I say it shouldn't be removed because of thw other stuff or did I say if you want it removed because of the effortless (yet expensive) kill then shouldn't the other stuff also be removed? You would have no game left.

 

You use the term derail an awful lot. If it would further the topic then how is it derailing? However I don't need to ask the question, it's pretty clear what kind of game some want it to be.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Guest

[MeisterJazz]

 

"Vote to kick"

"Effortless kill"

Do you honestly NEED to have the last word on every thread you comment? I mean come the f*ck on, you're not defending the cannon and you say its a stupid design, yet it shouldn't be removed because there are other stupid tools in the game?

I would say that it all boils down to whether or not removing it makes the game better, but knowing you, you'd probably derail the thread into "define a better game".

The discussion wasn't over with my last post, I don't see how that's having the last word. However, if you believe this to be true and it urks you that much you can ignore my posts, there is a handy feature which will stop them appearing unless you click the link - use it if I bother you that much.

 

Did I say it shouldn't be removed because of thw other stuff or did I say if you want it removed because of the effortless (yet expensive) kill then shouldn't the other stuff also be removed? You would have no game left.

 

You use the term derail an awful lot. If it would further the topic then how is it derailing? However I don't need to ask the question, it's pretty clear what kind of game some want it to be.

 

The other stuff that you mentioned arent gaming breaking though.

[Guest]

@nutduster - I'm not arguing against the risk being greater or the fact you cannot counter a cannon strike. I am arguing the simple statement that the cannon should be removed because its an effortless kill as Hendrix's earlier comment.

 

If that is the reason it should be removed so should a lot of other things.

 

 

"Vote to kick"

"Effortless kill"

Do you honestly NEED to have the last word on every thread you comment? I mean come the f*ck on, you're not defending the cannon and you say its a stupid design, yet it shouldn't be removed because there are other stupid tools in the game?

I would say that it all boils down to whether or not removing it makes the game better, but knowing you, you'd probably derail the thread into "define a better game".

 

The discussion wasn't over with my last post, I don't see how that's having the last word. However, if you believe this to be true and it urks you that much you can ignore my posts, there is a handy feature which will stop them appearing unless you click the link - use it if I bother you that much.

Did I say it shouldn't be removed because of thw other stuff or did I say if you want it removed because of the effortless (yet expensive) kill then shouldn't the other stuff also be removed? You would have no game left.

You use the term derail an awful lot. If it would further the topic then how is it derailing? However I don't need to ask the question, it's pretty clear what kind of game some want it to be.

 

The other stuff that you mentioned arent gaming breaking though.

With a 45 minute cool down, is the cannon game breaking?

[K-Bow]

@nutduster - I'm not arguing against the risk being greater or the fact you cannot counter a cannon strike. I am arguing the simple statement that the cannon should be removed because its an effortless kill as Hendrix's earlier comment.

 

If that is the reason it should be removed so should a lot of other things.

 

 

 

"Vote to kick"

"Effortless kill"

Do you honestly NEED to have the last word on every thread you comment? I mean come the f*ck on, you're not defending the cannon and you say its a stupid design, yet it shouldn't be removed because there are other stupid tools in the game?

I would say that it all boils down to whether or not removing it makes the game better, but knowing you, you'd probably derail the thread into "define a better game".

 

The discussion wasn't over with my last post, I don't see how that's having the last word. However, if you believe this to be true and it urks you that much you can ignore my posts, there is a handy feature which will stop them appearing unless you click the link - use it if I bother you that much.

Did I say it shouldn't be removed because of thw other stuff or did I say if you want it removed because of the effortless (yet expensive) kill then shouldn't the other stuff also be removed? You would have no game left.

You use the term derail an awful lot. If it would further the topic then how is it derailing? However I don't need to ask the question, it's pretty clear what kind of game some want it to be.

 

The other stuff that you mentioned arent gaming breaking though.With a 45 minute cool down, is the cannon game breaking?I've been reading your posts and I have to agree with most of what you've been saying here tbh.

[Black-Dragon96]

...it's pretty clear what kind of game some want it to be.

A balanced game where everyone can play the way he enjoys to play, without weaponized meme vehicles and orbital nukes.

 

 

I can't believe how someone can think that getting a kill with a proxy mine, a buzzard missile or with autoaim is compareable to getting a kill with the orbital canon.

When I put a proxy mine somewhere, I have to find a good place where it wont get triggered by npc's and where my intended target will stumble over it.

When I want to get a kill with a buzzard missile I physicly have to go there vunerable to my target who could see me and possibly kill me before I can kill him. If I want to kill an on foot target I have to manually aim the missile to hit my target. Even lockon missiles are not 100% sure to hit. You have to position your aircraft accordingly to hit your target.

When I use autoaim my opponent also has autoaim and can kill me if he has a better reaction time.

 

 

The only thing thats even semi compareable to the orbital canon are the facility strike teams. And thats only because they too let you kill from the safety of your facility and require nothing but the pres of a button.

All other methods of killing a player require you to go to/go near the position where you want to kill your target, atleast once. They require the effort to go to a place near your target and do some kind of action with the potential risk of getting killed yourself, while all you need to do with the orbital canon is sit in you facility and press two buttons.

 

 

Oh and yes, I do think that it is gamebreaking.

Someone doing piracy prevention, some f*ck orbital nukes him and the poor guy spawns at the hospital in the city while someone else takes over his yacht without our player being able to do anything about it.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Black-Dragon96

[Killer Whale]

I'm the last person that'd use the cannon, but I think it would be stupid to remove a feature once it has been inserted into the game, especially if people complain about it. Rockstar made it with the purpose of unapologetic mayhem.

 

It's a stupid addition. Flashy and cool, but stupid. Unnecessary? For the most part, yes. But it would make no sense removing it.

[Guest]

How hard is it to read ffs.

 

"Effortless kills" were the argument for removal of the OC. Nothing about risk, nothing about counters just simply because it requires no effort.

 

If that alone is reason enough to call for it to be removed (which according to Hendrix it is) then a lot of other stuff also needs to be called for being removed too.

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

I'm the last person that'd use the cannon, but I think it would be stupid to remove a feature once it has been inserted into the game, especially if people complain about it. Rockstar made it with the purpose of unapologetic mayhem.

 

It's a stupid addition. Flashy and cool, but stupid. Unnecessary? For the most part, yes. But it would make no sense removing it.

What if instead of removing it, R* nerfs the sh*t out of it?

 

@DemomicSpaceman

 

Stop implying that I'm the only one who's asking for the removal of the Orbital Cannon from the game. If you actually read the thread since the beginning, you'll notice two things:

 

- I'm not the only one who asks for its removal/nerfing.

- I actually said that I would prefer it to get nerfed instead of removed.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Voodoo-Hendrix

[AUScowboy]

They're not going to remove it. They may nerf it, MAYBE, or adjust it, but it isn't going anywhere. They wouldnt go to the effort it would take to do so, people already spent money on it, people still spend money on it. We can daydream until our fingers get tired here, or just be realistic..

Edited April 28, 2018 by AUScowboy

[HamwithCheese]

How hard is it to read ffs.

 

"Effortless kills" were the argument for removal of the OC. Nothing about risk, nothing about counters just simply because it requires no effort.

 

If that alone is reason enough to call for it to be removed (which according to Hendrix it is) then a lot of other stuff also needs to be called for being removed too.

You're so black and white. You can't use that to win or prolong arguments.

[Nutduster]

How hard is it to read ffs.

 

"Effortless kills" were the argument for removal of the OC. Nothing about risk, nothing about counters just simply because it requires no effort.

 

If that alone is reason enough to call for it to be removed (which according to Hendrix it is) then a lot of other stuff also needs to be called for being removed too.

That was just part of an argument made by one person in this thread. And you're only harping on it because it's the one area you think you have a leg to stand on (though even there, you're wrong). Go ahead and die on that hill if you must; the rest of us are having a more interesting discussion about more than a single point.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Nutduster

[Lonely-Martin]

^ Na, it's because it's Voodoo, BD, couple of others, and me if I'm not ignored like I asked.

 

With you, it's 'I disagree, moving on'

With us, it's 'retarded pussies can't f*cking read'

 

IMHO, he's here to just disagree with those he just likes to disagree with.

[Nutduster]

Oh and yes, I do think that it is gamebreaking.

Someone doing piracy prevention, some f*ck orbital nukes him and the poor guy spawns at the hospital in the city while someone else takes over his yacht without our player being able to do anything about it.

There are other examples. You can nuke someone's sale (bunker, I/E, whatever) with them having no way to know it's coming. Does this stuff happen often? No, not in my experience. But why would anyone want such a feature in the game at all? It's ridiculous.

[Up2NoGood45]

I always thought the bunker would have been the place for a weapon of mass destruction. But not one you have to pay for like the OC. I thought if you faithfully operate your bunker by stealing supplies, selling weapons the bar could slowly fill up on a cruise missile that you could attack someone with...but it would take days before it would fire. But no...RS comes up with another way to fleece money off the players.

[CosmicBuffalo]

If you are being targeted by someone with orbital cannon, it is possible to play the game and avoid being killed by it. Random orbital cannons cannot be avoided, but they are rare. It probably happened to me once.

 

It is also possible to cause the person to miss as I have said. I know there is a glitch to quit the game and load up over and over, but how long is anyone going to do that...most of the people who use the orbital cannon are adhd tryhard preteens. Start executive search when you see the same tryhard rejoin the lobby for the 4th time. See if he can get you. He gonna be sitting in his facility while you drive around freely playing the game.

 

The orbital cannon can also be used to take out a poor self esstemed instgramer who is worried your score screen may be posted to 20 bot followers on instgram.

[REXX]

And before you know it, we'll have $10mil nukes Better grab that Apocalypse Kit from Ammunation while you still can

 

... or go passive

 

Silly stuff aside,

 

Despite the Orbital Cannon being insanely powerful, I still think it needs a far more longer cooldown.

Edited April 28, 2018 by REXX

[RetroStyle]

 

Oh and yes, I do think that it is gamebreaking.

Someone doing piracy prevention, some f*ck orbital nukes him and the poor guy spawns at the hospital in the city while someone else takes over his yacht without our player being able to do anything about it.

There are other examples. You can nuke someone's sale (bunker, I/E, whatever) with them having no way to know it's coming. Does this stuff happen often? No, not in my experience. But why would anyone want such a feature in the game at all? It's ridiculous.

 

Ppl have been ruining ppl's sales with hydras/lasers since sales started. They havent even been nerfed in any way. R* wants trolls to ruin ppl's sell missions on purpose. They even send a lobbywide heads up to let em kno ur tryin to make a cpl bucks. The oc just makes it easier, but cost 100 times more to kill ppl. Freemode has never been fair. PVP in freemode has been a cesspool since the marksman sniper and spammable rpgs due to buying ammo in the interaction menu. R* hates game balance, n loves escalation based on multimillion $ shark card selling griefing tools. Pvp in freemode is a money pit n a waste of time imo. I bought all the military hardware, but only use it for missions n solo-public lobbies.

[Black-Dragon96]

How hard is it to read ffs.

 

"Effortless kills" were the argument for removal of the OC. Nothing about risk, nothing about counters just simply because it requires no effort.

 

If that alone is reason enough to call for it to be removed (which according to Hendrix it is) then a lot of other stuff also needs to be called for being removed too.

Like I said, except for the strike teams nothing is compareable to the orbital canon in terms of "effort".

Every other form of killing another person requires you to go to the place where you want to kill someone, it requires you to you position yourself acording to your target to not get killed yourself in the end. These things may not require much effort but they require atleast some effort unlike an autoaim shot with the orbital canon wich takes zero effort.

[Guest]

 

How hard is it to read ffs.

 

"Effortless kills" were the argument for removal of the OC. Nothing about risk, nothing about counters just simply because it requires no effort.

 

If that alone is reason enough to call for it to be removed (which according to Hendrix it is) then a lot of other stuff also needs to be called for being removed too.

That was just part of an argument made by one person in this thread. And you're only harping on it because it's the one area you think you have a leg to stand on (though even there, you're wrong). Go ahead and die on that hill if you must; the rest of us are having a more interesting discussion about more than a single point.

 

No it was an entire post/argument I originally questioned.

 

 

It's a no-effort, instant kill button.

 

I think that's enough of a reason to want it removed or at least heavily nerfed.

Hendrix used that single point as a complete argument and stated it was enough to call for it to be removed, my point is, if that alone is enough then many other things should be also being called for being removed.

[Nutduster]

And unfortunately you are still incorrect. No other weapon in the game is comparable to the cannon in terms of lack of effort required and absolute certainty that a kill will be achieved.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Nutduster

[Spectre "2K"]

i feel like if they keep it in the game they should at least put it in a location that you can still be killed from (like the cockpit of an Avenger) and using it for either price would fry your turrets and countermeasures for the duration of the cooldown

[Nutduster]

 

 

Oh and yes, I do think that it is gamebreaking.

Someone doing piracy prevention, some f*ck orbital nukes him and the poor guy spawns at the hospital in the city while someone else takes over his yacht without our player being able to do anything about it.

There are other examples. You can nuke someone's sale (bunker, I/E, whatever) with them having no way to know it's coming. Does this stuff happen often? No, not in my experience. But why would anyone want such a feature in the game at all? It's ridiculous.

 

Ppl have been ruining ppl's sales with hydras/lasers since sales started. They havent even been nerfed in any way

You are right, and the jet should have been nerfed. Or the sale vehicles and protections should have been buffed. I've made both arguments. Still... you can scan the map for guys in jets before and after you start a sale. You can fire up ghost org if a jet heads your way, or if a jet goes suspiciously off radar. You can park under a bridge and fight, if need be. It's not perfect and the jet still has a large advantage. But an orbital cannon shot is unpredictable and indefensible. I'd rather have a slim chance against the jet, if I knew one or the other was going to happen.

[Guest]

And unfortunately you are still incorrect. No other weapon in the game is comparable to the cannon in terms of lack of effort required and absolute certainty that a kill will be achieved.

Absolute certainty? Who mentioned that in the post I was originally replying to?

 

Quite simply, the cannon was being called to be removed because of how effortless a kill with it is. Nothing about the certainty. I'm not arguing the certainty. I'm stating that to call for it to be removed because of it's effortless kill potential in a game with autoaim and many other methods for effortless kills isn't a good enough reason.

 

The fact it's an almost guaranteed kill while hiding in a facility and with no way to be killed yourself, despite it being balanced by it's high cost and long cooldown, I have no argument against.

[Nyamber]

Oh my f*cking god, can someone just ban this guy so he stops filling every single thread with his pointless arguments that he refuses to ever admit defeat in...

[Guest]

Is it against the terms of the forum to post an opposing argument on a discussion then? If you think my posts call for a ban report them. Why post a poll and discussion about opinion on a feature if you wont accept arguments from both sides?

 

Every single thread is a little bit of an overstatement. It's like 3 of them.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Guest

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

Let me explain you, again.

 

Literally any way of player killing takes way more physical/mechanical/whatever "effort" that just pulling a menu and calling a near unavoidable explosion upon someone.

 

Not only that, literally any way of player counter can be countered in some way or another, the Orbital Cannon can't aside from very situational ways, you don't always have the opportunity to hide in your MOC/Avenger.

 

Now, I ask you again, can't you see an issue with that?

[Arrows to Athens]

I had one barcode fella sit in his facility for one hour just to orbital strike me for the second time, before finally leaving. I remained in passive mode most of the time, so he couldn't get me. Strange fellow.

 

This orbital cannon can really brainwash you.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Arrows to Athens

[Black-Dragon96]

I'm stating that to call for it to be removed because of it's effortless kill potential in a game with autoaim and many other methods for effortless kills isn't a good enough reason.

 

Except for maybe the striketeams/mercs there is no other effortless method to kill someone.

[Nutduster]

 

And unfortunately you are still incorrect. No other weapon in the game is comparable to the cannon in terms of lack of effort required and absolute certainty that a kill will be achieved.

Absolute certainty? Who mentioned that in the post I was originally replying to?

 

Quite simply, the cannon was being called to be removed because of how effortless a kill with it is. Nothing about the certainty. I'm not arguing the certainty. I'm stating that to call for it to be removed because of it's effortless kill potential in a game with autoaim and many other methods for effortless kills isn't a good enough reason.

 

The fact it's an almost guaranteed kill while hiding in a facility and with no way to be killed yourself, despite it being balanced by it's high cost and long cooldown, I have no argument against.

The reason I mentioned certainty is because the lack of certainty is what makes every other weapon require more effort to kill with. They are related concepts. A rocket launcher is a 1 shot kill weapon, which suggests low effort - but it's only a certain kill if you aim correctly and your opponent doesn't counter in some way. The orbital cannon on the other hand is indifferent to nearly everything. Same with the Buzzard - it CAN be an effortless kill, but very often you miss; the effort is in moving, dodging, and firing additional missiles until you get the kill. Again, the orbital cannon requires none of this. It just works (and if it doesn't you get a refund, at least for the auto aim version).

 

You simply can't split enough hairs to convince me that there's not a huge difference between a weapon that gives you an effortless kill only when you're lucky, vs. one that was designed to deliver an effortless kill every time it is used. You can keep trying though.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Nutduster