Should the Orbital Cannon be removed?

[Nutduster]

 

You really think placing a proxy mine down or hitting the fire button when you get a random lock on is effort? How can you see that as effort? Sure, it's not as easy as scrolling through a list but effort, really? You're having a laugh.

 

I never said it isn't an issue, I said it's not as big of an issue as some are making it out to be. Big deal, someone can pay $750k and kill you once. It's no worse, in fact it's not nearly as bad, as someone spawn killing you with a jet, sniper, whatever they prefer to use.

 

 

Using a Buzzard to kill someone is, on average, a sh*tload more effort than using the Orbital Cannon. Maybe you'd have a point with the Deluxo, where the missiles always hit their target, but using the Buzzard missiles well actually requires finesse and patience. (As far as the Deluxo missiles though, that's another thing I think should be nerfed immediately.)

 

As to whether or not it's as bad as spawn-killing... it depends. Spawn-killing is always annoying but at least you usually have a chance to fight your way out of it, unless you're outnumbered. A guy sniping you can be sniped. A jet can be shot down or blown up. The orbital cannon, again, has no counter. Also, you're not accounting for the way this thing is usually used, which is as part of a campaign of butt-hurt. For instance, you're fighting with a couple of guys who bit off more than they could chew. You kill them a few times in a row and they break out jets, so you go off-radar, get your own jet, and take them both out. Now one of them keeps you busy, firing homing rockets and such, while the other teleports to his facility and orbital cannons you out of the sky. This is a very typical scenario for how it actually gets used (trust me on this), and there are few things more annoying in any PvP game than working hard to overcome a numeric and tactical advantage, only to have someone take it away from you with an easy button. It's that kind of thing that really makes me object to the orbital cannon and what it does to free roam PvP. The game was already a messed-up rock-paper-scissors; the orbital cannon is like a fourth option you can only throw once every ten throws, that beats all of the other three. Which is dumb.

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

You really think placing a proxy mine down or hitting the fire button when you get a random lock on is effort? How can you see that as effort? Sure, it's not as easy as scrolling through a list but effort, really? You're having a laugh.

 

I never said it isn't an issue, I said it's not as big of an issue as some are making it out to be. Big deal, someone can pay $750k and kill you once. It's no worse, in fact it's not nearly as bad, as someone spawn killing you with a jet, sniper, whatever they prefer to use.

 

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

effort

[ef-ert]

noun

 

1. exertion of physical or mental power:

It will take great effort to achieve victory.

2. an earnest or strenuous attempt:

an effort to keep to the schedule.

As piss easy is to litter the ground with proxies outside LSC, it do takes a bigger ammount of "effort" to do it compared to literally selecting a name from a menu and blow it up from the safety of your Facility.

 

If one's skilled, well equiped or cunning enough (for GTAO's standards at least) you can counter a jet or a sniper; there's no such thing for the Orbital Cannon aside from temporal ones like Off the Radar or hiding in an interior which is not always possible.

 

How you fail to realize how big of an issue this is it really boggles my mind.

 

edit: lol ninja'd

Edited April 27, 2018 by Voodoo-Hendrix

[Guest]

 

You really think placing a proxy mine down or hitting the fire button when you get a random lock on is effort? How can you see that as effort? Sure, it's not as easy as scrolling through a list but effort, really? You're having a laugh.

 

I never said it isn't an issue, I said it's not as big of an issue as some are making it out to be. Big deal, someone can pay $750k and kill you once. It's no worse, in fact it's not nearly as bad, as someone spawn killing you with a jet, sniper, whatever they prefer to use.

 

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

effort

[ef-ert]

noun

 

1. exertion of physical or mental power:

 

It will take great effort to achieve victory.

2. an earnest or strenuous attempt:

 

an effort to keep to the schedule.

As piss easy is to litter the ground with proxies outside LSC, it do takes a bigger ammount of "effort" to do it compared to literally selecting a name from a menu and blow it up from the safety of your Facility.

 

If one's skilled, well equiped or cunning enough (for GTAO's standards at least) you can counter a jet or a sniper; there's no such thing for the Orbital Cannon aside from temporal ones like Off the Radar or hiding in an interior which is not always possible.

 

How you fail to realize how big of an issue this is it really boggles my mind.

 

edit: lol ninja'd

 

How you fail to see that there are other no effort methods of killing baffles me.

 

I fail to see how big of an issue it is due to the rarity in seeing it actually used and because I also see many other methods to kill a player just as effortless.

 

If placing a proxy on the ground or flying a car closer to a target is effort isn't driving to/teleporting to a facility, running to the cannon and scrolling through a list just as much of an effort? The cannon target menu isn't always on the screen, it's not part of the interaction menu, you need to get to the cannon. If pressing X while flying a car or buzzard when an unexpected lock is made or placing a proxy outside of LSC is effort then so is accepting an invite, running to the cannon and pressing a button, selecting a name and pressing another button.

[Black Boxcar in the dark]

Lots of players wants kill with orbital cannon for no reason.

This thing most be removed from the game now, C*!

 

Thats why i go with friends olny to do car meet up

 

O well....

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

 

 

 

You really think placing a proxy mine down or hitting the fire button when you get a random lock on is effort? How can you see that as effort? Sure, it's not as easy as scrolling through a list but effort, really? You're having a laugh.

 

I never said it isn't an issue, I said it's not as big of an issue as some are making it out to be. Big deal, someone can pay $750k and kill you once. It's no worse, in fact it's not nearly as bad, as someone spawn killing you with a jet, sniper, whatever they prefer to use.

 

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

effort

[ef-ert]

noun

 

1. exertion of physical or mental power:

It will take great effort to achieve victory.

2. an earnest or strenuous attempt:

an effort to keep to the schedule.

As piss easy is to litter the ground with proxies outside LSC, it do takes a bigger ammount of "effort" to do it compared to literally selecting a name from a menu and blow it up from the safety of your Facility.

 

If one's skilled, well equiped or cunning enough (for GTAO's standards at least) you can counter a jet or a sniper; there's no such thing for the Orbital Cannon aside from temporal ones like Off the Radar or hiding in an interior which is not always possible.

 

How you fail to realize how big of an issue this is it really boggles my mind.

 

edit: lol ninja'd

How you fail to see that there are other no effort methods of killing baffles me.

 

I fail to see how big of an issue it is due to the rarity in seeing it actually used and because I also see many other methods to kill a player just as effortless.

 

If placing a proxy on the ground or flying a car closer to a target is effort isn't driving to/teleporting to a facility, running to the cannon and scrolling through a list just as much of an effort? The cannon target menu isn't always on the screen, it's not part of the interaction menu, you need to get to the cannon. If pressing X while flying a car or buzzard when an unexpected lock is made or placing a proxy outside of LSC is effort then so is accepting an invite, running to the cannon and pressing a button, selecting a name and pressing another button.

 

You still need to go to said LSC, select the proxies from the weapon wheel, aim to the ground and throw them and wait for someone to fall into the trap. Yes, it does take way more effort than the Orbital Cannon.

 

Hell, the closest "no effort" kill is with a Deluxo and even with that you still need to at least get close enough for the lock-on to work and let the rockets do the work. Even with that, you're still vulnerable to being killed, there's no such thing with the Orbital Cannon.

 

I have been Orbital Cannoned like whay, 5 times tops since December, mostly by salty tryhards wanting to get even and yet I don't need to be Orbital Cannoned 10 times on a daily basis to see how f*cking broken the whole thing is.

 

You have always claimed that this game is PvP and nothing else aside from PvP, please do tell me how a glorified mod menu is not an issue with such game design? Such thing wouldn't be accepted with any decent PvP game like CoD, Battlefield, Overwatch, whatever, why in GTAO is not an issue?

 

Edit: put some spoilers for the sake of readibility

Edited April 27, 2018 by Voodoo-Hendrix

[Lonely-Martin]

^ Clear as day why he's here, lol.

 

Besides, as he said. He hasn't played in months aside the odd hour helping crew mates. Of course it's rare for him.

 

As we know, his experiences are our experiences.

[*Lola]

If I ever get tired of playing GTA Online, I may purchase the Orbital Cannon and waste my millions on the gta free roam warriors.

[K-Bow]

 

 

I don't want to be that guy...but why do some of you feel that it needs to be removed? It has a 45 minute cooldown and only allows for you to kill a person a single time (or group of they're in the same vehicle/area) for 500k-750k. I'm not sure I'm seeing what's bad about this. Personally, I think the price per use should be lowered and the cooldown raised slightly (no extreme cooldown though). Why do some of you feel like it should be removed?

It's a no-effort, instant kill button.

 

I think that's enough of a reason to want it removed or at least heavily nerfed.

In a game with "auto aim" or aim assist plus the numerous weaponised vehicles with homing capabilities, plus the homing launcher, merryweather, hit squad etc. the "no effort kill" is a little redundant don't you think? It's not like GTA is a difficult game to play.

 

It could be worse, it could be cheaper and could have a shorter cool down (or no cool down).

I dont mean to sound disrespectful to anyone, but this is exactly what I was thinking. When I saw the orbital came into the game, I decided to get it just so I kill players who grief constantly. I was kind of let down about it with the price per use being so high, plus the cooldown is 45 minutes. This limits me to only being able to kill a griefer (who has been getting many low effort kills on multiple people in the lobby who didn't want to fight in the first place) a single time. Then, when that griefer respawns, I can try to keep killing him but if he slips away and gets another jet (or oppressor, etc), then I'm right back to square one AND I'm set back over a half million dollars that I'll have to earn and even if I did have the money to do it again theres a pretty long cooldown. I completely understand where the other guys in this topic are coming from, just not 100% sure I agree. I'm genuinely not trying to be a jerk I just feel like there's a detail I'm missing out on or something. Thank you for the replies everyone!

[Lonely-Martin]

^ Ahh, we agree there dude. The game's full of easy kills and cheap shots.

 

I really hope for more next time, but won't hold my breath, lol. We'll see.

[Guest]

You still need to go to said LSC, select the proxies from the weapon wheel, aim to the ground and throw them and wait for someone to fall into the trap. Yes, it does take way more effort than the Orbital Cannon.

Wow. So much effort is needed. It amazes me that you even bother to get out of bed every day, so much effort... so much...

 

It's not a question of which takes more effort (however planting a proxy takes less, waiting takes none), it's a question of if they take any effort. Neither takes effort, real effort. We have numerous "easy kill" or "no effort kills" already, the cannon isn't alone in that.

 

I mean if pressing a couple of extra buttons and "waiting" (despite the fact you could be off screwing someone else over) is too much effort to be classed as a "no effort kill"... I'd hate to know what you consider something that actually does take effort.

 

 

The cannon really isn't as big a deal as you're claiming it to be. Sure, there's no defense and the guy using it can hide away - big deal, one kill every 45 minutes at $750k per kill. It's not like it breaks your game, it doesn't set you back much when hit by it, you die, you respawn. Short of using it on someone selling something, the result is pretty minimal.

 

I don't think it should have been added, as I've said numerous times but is it really as bad as you make it out to be? Not at all. There are bigger problems with the game (and the cannon can be used to deal with some of those problems).

 

 

If you think everything other than the cannon takes effort for the kill that just tells me you're lazy. Selecting a weapon in a weapon wheel is not effort (if it is, selecting a name from a list is as much effort).

 

 

Making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Nutduster]

 

 

 

I don't want to be that guy...but why do some of you feel that it needs to be removed? It has a 45 minute cooldown and only allows for you to kill a person a single time (or group of they're in the same vehicle/area) for 500k-750k. I'm not sure I'm seeing what's bad about this. Personally, I think the price per use should be lowered and the cooldown raised slightly (no extreme cooldown though). Why do some of you feel like it should be removed?

It's a no-effort, instant kill button.

 

I think that's enough of a reason to want it removed or at least heavily nerfed.

In a game with "auto aim" or aim assist plus the numerous weaponised vehicles with homing capabilities, plus the homing launcher, merryweather, hit squad etc. the "no effort kill" is a little redundant don't you think? It's not like GTA is a difficult game to play.

 

It could be worse, it could be cheaper and could have a shorter cool down (or no cool down).

I dont mean to sound disrespectful to anyone, but this is exactly what I was thinking. When I saw the orbital came into the game, I decided to get it just so I kill players who grief constantly. I was kind of let down about it with the price per use being so high, plus the cooldown is 45 minutes. This limits me to only being able to kill a griefer (who has been getting many low effort kills on multiple people in the lobby who didn't want to fight in the first place) a single time. Then, when that griefer respawns, I can try to keep killing him but if he slips away and gets another jet (or oppressor, etc), then I'm right back to square one AND I'm set back over a half million dollars that I'll have to earn and even if I did have the money to do it again theres a pretty long cooldown. I completely understand where the other guys in this topic are coming from, just not 100% sure I agree. I'm genuinely not trying to be a jerk I just feel like there's a detail I'm missing out on or something. Thank you for the replies everyone!

 

 

If the cannon cost less and had a shorter cooldown - let's say 250K per shot and 10 minute cooldown - I'd quit playing this game immediately. Not even kidding.

 

And while I respect that you want to use it against griefers, who do you think uses it more often already: you or them? If there were fewer limitations and a lower cost, it would tilt even more massively towards trolls and assholes using it as often as possible. This is really the passive mode argument all over again - while passive mode exists originally to protect players from unwanted PvP, it is used even more often by PvP trolls and griefers who don't want to get killed. There are multiple uses for everything in this game, which is why a better developer would have considered these implications before adding things that can be exploited and abused.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Nutduster

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

@DemonicSpaceman

 

I mean, you can't be serious, right?

 

Any ammount of "effort", as minimal as it may be, it's still effort.

 

Among the myriad of "easy kills" that this game offers the Orbital Cannon is by far the easiest and the most agravating because unlike the rest, you can't fight back.

 

The fact that someone spent $750k for an almost guaranteed kill on you is irrelevant, the issue is that you don't have the chance for defending yourself or even to get revenge if said players chooses to not exit his Facility.

 

Someone kills me with a *insert OP vehicle of choice*? I'll be damn sure to kill him in return, with the Orbital Cannon there's no such opportunity.

 

You know what? I sometimes feel like you're just trolling at this point, I mean, it's pretty suspicious that in almost all the topics you reply, you always take the antagonizing position for some reason, mmm...

Edited April 27, 2018 by Voodoo-Hendrix

[Guest]

@DemonicSpaceman

 

I mean, you can't be serious, right?

Why not? Because I don't agree that the cannon is the only easy/no effort kill method in GTA? Because I don't see the no effort kill as being that valid an argument against it in a game with auto aim?

 

 

Any ammount of "effort", as minimal as it may be, it's still effort.

Except for anything to do with the cannon though, right?

 

 

Among the myriad of "easy kills" that this game offers the Orbital Cannon is by far the easiest and the most agravating because unlike the rest, you can't fight back.

I haven't argued that. It's not the only easy kill. It's not the only cheap kill. It's not the only no effort kill. It's not the only way to kill and leave the target no way to fight back either.

 

 

The fact that someone spent $750k for an almost guaranteed kill on you is irrelevant, the issue is that you don't have the chance for defending yourself or even to get revenge if said players chooses to not exit his Facility.

You don't have the chance to fight back against someone who kills you then goes passive. You don't have the chance to fight back against a crew who kick you out of the session. You don't have chance to fight back against someone who kills you and leaves the session. There are many instances of this.

 

 

Someone kills me with a *insert OP vehicle of choice*? I'll be damn sure to kill him in return, with the Orbital Cannon there's no such opportunity.

If that player goes passive how are you going to kill them?

 

 

You know what? I sometimes feel like you're just trolling at this point, I mean, it's pretty suspicious that in almost all the topics you reply, you always take the antagonizing position for some reason, mmm...

What part of "I don't think it should have been added" aren't you grasping?

 

I just do not agree that the "easy no effort kill" reason for removal is valid in a game with auto aim among many many other no effort kill methods.

[Nutduster]

 

The fact that someone spent $750k for an almost guaranteed kill on you is irrelevant, the issue is that you don't have the chance for defending yourself or even to get revenge if said players chooses to not exit his Facility.

You don't have the chance to fight back against someone who kills you then goes passive. You don't have the chance to fight back against a crew who kick you out of the session. You don't have chance to fight back against someone who kills you and leaves the session. There are many instances of this

 

Those are arguments against those aspects of the game, not for the orbital cannon. I've been yelling pointlessly into the void about the sh*ttiness of passive mode for years, and there are multiple active, very long threads about crew-kicking. It's strange to me to see a defense of this terrible feature that says "but look at these other things that are nearly as terrible." Uh yeah... there are a lot of problems with GTA Online, are we going to start making a list of them just to be able to talk about one particular item on that list?

 

I mean, if you want a comparison, I think passive abuse is worse - probably the worst thing in the PvP side of the game, and it should have been patched long, long ago. I'd rather see that patched than the orbital cannon removed or nerfed. But we aren't here to talk about passive mode, and invoking it does not amount to a defense of something else that is also a pile of horsesh*t.

[Guest]

Again, I am not defending the cannon and really do not see how anyone is thinking otherwise.

[Nutduster]

Again, I am not defending the cannon and really do not see how anyone is thinking otherwise.

 

You say you aren't, but then the entire rest of your post will say otherwise. When you keep digging in and saying that it's equivalent to many other things in the game (which I largely disagree with, but OK), you're essentially arguing that it's fine. You wish it had not been added but now that it's here, meh. Is that an accurate summary of your position, or no? Maybe you're not defending it in the sense of saying it's perfect the way it is and the game is better off having it, but you're also saying that you basically don't care enough to remove it; when you're talking to people who want it removed, that is a form of defense, even though on balance you kind of dislike it.

 

I'm all for nuance in these discussions, but there is still a fundamental disagreement here over exactly how hideous the cannon is, and in that argument you are by default the defense, and the rest of us the prosecution.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Nutduster

[Nyamber]

"I'm not defending the cannon!!!

 

But here's my long-ass post in defense of the cannon!"

 

That's how stupid you look.

[Guest]

The arguments are moot. Because I have called them out to be moot does not mean I am for the cannon.

[Nyamber]

The arguments are moot. Because I have called them out to be moot does not mean I am for the cannon.

"The cannon's not that bad"

 

"There are worse things"

 

"It is not the only no-skill weapon"

 

This is, by the definition of the word, you defending the cannon.

[Nutduster]

The arguments are moot. Because I have called them out to be moot does not mean I am for the cannon.

 

They're not though. I've responded to you extensively in good faith and you stopped replying. You are entitled to your opinions, I suppose, but I think 95% of players would agree that it's a lot more work on average to kill another player with a Buzzard than to orbital cannon them. And inarguably there is a lot more risk (not just on average, but 100% of the time) flying a Buzzard around than sitting in your facility looking at a list of players you could kill. Even ghost org'ed and being maximally sneaky, the Buzzard can be destroyed while you're searching for that easy homing missile kill; in your facility, you are God, looking down on Earth for a person to smite.

 

There's nothing moot about that argument, it's the simple truth of two very different game mechanics. You cannot say that on a fundamental level a weapon that MIGHT get you an easy kill is the same as a weapon that never does anything but that, or that a weapon which makes you vulnerable is the same as a weapon you can use in absolute, assured safety where other players cannot possibly kill you.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Nutduster

[No Homing]

You can exploit people running piracy prevention and stand your ground with this too. You know how when they die they always respawn at the mission area? Well, when you obliterate them they'll respawn at the hospital every time.

 

And if you get an executive search target, you won't get the win, but if the nearest hospital is outside the area, they'll likely lose because they left the area.

 

In other words, it's lazy coding because they didn't look at any issues like this.

Edited April 27, 2018 by No Homing

[carnerd3000]

R* has added so many ways for people to murder you over and over again. So why is it fair to give people access to an instant death weapon like that? Even if it costs $10M, why would any sane person want something like that in the game?

[snowwind]

...short question. When I dive deep underwater, can this cannon reach me?

[Nutduster]

...short question. When I dive deep underwater, can this cannon reach me?

 

The auto-aim version can kill you anywhere except in an interior or maybe near the game's height ceiling (I have not tested the latter, but I heard that you could get so high up as to be above the cannon's range). The manual aim version, I'm not sure. It works differently.

[Up2NoGood45]

If you're going to start removing stupid sh*t from the game you better pack a lunch. And dinner maybe too.

[Nutduster]

If you're going to start removing stupid sh*t from the game you better pack a lunch. And dinner maybe too.

 

I don't disagree. But there's stupid, and then there's head-slappingly stupid. The orbital cannon is probably the only thing they've ever added where I just laughed in disbelief. It's such a nice little package of all the bad parts of GTA Online - the disinterest in making a balanced, proper PvP experience combined with immersion-ruining silliness combined with a blatant ploy to subtract large amounts of money from players' bank accounts. What a sh*tshow.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Nutduster

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

🅱ased Ghillie is 🅱ased

 

[Youtube]

[Guest]

 

 

The arguments are moot. Because I have called them out to be moot does not mean I am for the cannon.

 

They're not though. I've responded to you extensively in good faith and you stopped replying. You are entitled to your opinions, I suppose, but I think 95% of players would agree that it's a lot more work on average to kill another player with a Buzzard than to orbital cannon them. And inarguably there is a lot more risk (not just on average, but 100% of the time) flying a Buzzard around than sitting in your facility looking at a list of players you could kill. Even ghost org'ed and being maximally sneaky, the Buzzard can be destroyed while you're searching for that easy homing missile kill; in your facility, you are God, looking down on Earth for a person to smite.

 

There's nothing moot about that argument, it's the simple truth of two very different game mechanics. You cannot say that on a fundamental level a weapon that MIGHT get you an easy kill is the same as a weapon that never does anything but that, or that a weapon which makes you vulnerable is the same as a weapon you can use in absolute, assured safety where other players cannot possibly kill you.

 

I disagree.

 

If you're calling for it to be removed due to effortless kills you also need to call for autoaim, homing rockets, passive mode, voting to kick, the oppressor, ruiner, deluxo, proxy mines, kuruma, insurgent etc to be removed too.

[Lonely-Martin]

^ We have.

 

By asking for full access from invite/crew sessions to return all this time, it removes all that sh*t for those that don't want it around them. All while allowing those that enjoy the spice from all that sh*t.

 

You're right, it's not competitive out there, hence business sessions. Players remove that sh*t themselves. But we both know that irritates/compromises others too.

 

Fixes so much. None of it was an issue before they changed things.

Edited April 27, 2018 by KWF1981

[HamwithCheese]

"Vote to kick"

"Effortless kill"

 

Do you honestly NEED to have the last word on every thread you comment? I mean come the f*ck on, you're not defending the cannon and you say its a stupid design, yet it shouldn't be removed because there are other stupid tools in the game?

 

I would say that it all boils down to whether or not removing it makes the game better, but knowing you, you'd probably derail the thread into "define a better game".

Edited April 27, 2018 by HamwithCheese