Should the Orbital Cannon be removed?

[Arrows to Athens]

8 hours ago, Big Molio said:

Get under cover if you see somebody go to their facility, an overpass, a tunnel, a car park. It isn’t hard.

That doesn't always work, buddy. The OC's blast radius is that of a star going supernova.

 

 

 

And what about those who are aware that you're hiding underneath a bridge or a building and just wait it out?

Edited December 18, 2019 by Arrows to Athens

[gtafan26]

I got hit with it today, some little bitch didnt like that I didnt let him get a no reason kill on me, and then I added one for making me waste my time, and then a bit later ...............boom.

 

I laughed a bit .

 

 

[Arrows to Athens]

Just now, gtafan26 said:

I got hit with it today, some little bitch didnt like that I didnt let him get a no reason kill on me, and then I added one for making me waste my time, and then a bit later ...............boom.

 

 

This is actually the most common reason as to why I get OC'd. They're salty that I killed them earlier or I just don't let them get a kill on me.

 

They always scurry into their facility to blast you as their last resort. They literally will not be able to sleep at night knowing they didn't kill you in the game. 

[gtafan26]

2 minutes ago, Arrows to Athens said:

That doesn't always work, buddy. The OC's blast radius is that of a star going supernova.

 

 

 

And what about those who are aware that you're hiding underneath a bridge or a building and just wait it out?

If think i am gonna get hit, I just heist wrap to my Facility or get to one property's or under ground,  I dont leave it to chance to going under a bridge or something.

Just now, Arrows to Athens said:

This is actually the most common reason as to why I get OC'd. They're salty that I killed them earlier or I just don't let them get a kill on me.

 

They always scurry into their facility to blast you as their last resort. They literally will not be able to sleep at night knowing they didn't kill you in the game. 

Yep, I am surprise it doenst happen more often.

[Arrows to Athens]

7 hours ago, Big Molio said:

You have to constantly check the map, whatever you are doing. Look at people who are on Oppressors, in their houses or facilities, those who are red from kicking off in the lobby. Keep your ears open for explosions and sounds of other chaos on the map, that often gives you an idea of what is going on. Look for crews and individuals who disappear off the map but are still in the players list. Have they warped? Have they called in their R/C. Plan your route. Any players up ahead? What is the plan if you get followed etc

 

Just keep your wits about you in general.

"You have to constantly check the map"

 

I always do this, but this still won't prevent you from getting struck entirely. What's the point if you're going to have to pause the game every minute just to see who could be targeting me from inside their facility? How is that enjoyable? What about those who have gone ghost and warped to their facility to strike you in stealth mode? What if you don't have all the facility locations memorized and that person could be in a bunker or hanger? 

 

"Look at people who are on Oppressors"

 

Why Oppressors? 

 

"in their houses or facilities"

 

Again, what if you don't have all the facility locations memorized? Apartments, facilities, hangers, bunkers, etc, they all share the same blip. On top of that, you're proving to everyone here that the existence of the OC makes the game unplayable. Why? Because you're constantly having to pause the game and be aware of certain players just to avoid being zapped from the sky. How is that enjoyable? You're spending more time being paranoid from an OC than actually doing what you want to be doing, like grinding. It literally becomes a Avoid the Orbital Cannon Simulator. What fun is that? lmao

 

"Keep your ears open for explosions and sounds of other chaos on the map"

 

What? That's just a normal occurrence in GTA Online. How is that in any way an indicator that someone is going to OC you? 

 

"Look for crews and individuals who disappear off the map but are still in the players list. Have they warped? Have they called in their R/C. Plan your route"

 

But how would you even tell if they're in ghost or in their RC Bandito? Sometimes so much sh*t goes in that you miss the Ghost Organization notification. They could have warped, but they also could have just gone ghost to  either complete some free mode work or kill a bunch of players in the area. They could have entered a job. They could be in the RC Bandito. Again, you have to beware of almost every player's actions to the point where the game becomes an Avoid the Orbital Cannon Simulator. It's ridiculous and NOT fun.

 

Also, how does one "plan their route" to avoid being struck by an OC?

 

"What is the plan if you get followed etc"

 

Your plan is determined by what your opponent is going to do. They could be in a car to drive by you, they could be planning on getting a weaponized aircraft, they could be planning on charging at you with an Oppressor. Someone following you is NOT an indicator that you will get struck by the OC.

 

[B7R]

3 minutes ago, Arrows to Athens said:

"Look at people who are on Oppressors"

 

Why Oppressors? 

Coz every1 on dem mk 2's is a GrIeFer /s 

 

Seriously tho, I have to laugh at what is being said by those who don't oppose the OC and see a problem with it. Literally they want to think the onus should be on every player to constantly check the map every two seconds for some bored player hiding away in their underground facility that may decide to fire a shot at a target at random. If the random player get's hit then these OC defenders would probably chalk it up to "well the random had it coming anyway".  

 

95% of the OC users that I've been in a session with don't pay for their shot, you see their name come up in the lobby feed as them having left the session mysteriously seconds after they've just fired their shot. I also don't know how but we had a issue a few months back where a toxic griefer player kept finding us (we still don't even know how) and would use the OC exploit against one of my friends. Oh but don't worry I'm sure our good defenders will tell us we should've f*cked off to invite only but because we didn't, we deserved what was coming for us. Like again your saying the onus should be on the victim and if they don't like it then they should be the ones who have to make changes, not the villain.  I'm sick of the bullsh*t that it should be victims having to make changes, why is it so easy to blame the victim and not the villain? 

 

 

[Arrows to Athens]

5 minutes ago, B7R said:

Coz every1 on dem mk 2's is a GrIeFer /s 

 

Seriously tho, I have to laugh at what is being said by those who don't oppose the OC and see a problem with it. Literally they want to think the onus should be on every player to constantly check the map every two seconds for some bored player hiding away in their underground facility that may decide to fire a shot at a target at random. If the random player get's hit then these OC defenders would probably chalk it up to "well the random had it coming anyway".  

 

95% of the OC users that I've been in a session with don't pay for their shot, you see their name come up in the lobby feed as them having left the session mysteriously seconds after they've just fired their shot. I also don't know how but we had a issue a few months back where a toxic griefer player kept finding us (we still don't even know how) and would use the OC exploit against one of my friends. Oh but don't worry I'm sure our good defenders will tell us we should've f*cked off to invite only but because we didn't, we deserved what was coming for us. Like again your saying the onus should be on the victim and if they don't like it then they should be the ones who have to make changes, not the villain.  I'm sick of the bullsh*t that it should be victims having to make changes, why is it so easy to blame the victim and not the villain? 

 

 

I know, right? It is one of the worst arguments I've heard in favour of the OC. You know, at this point, I don't know what's worse: the OC itself or the ones defending it.

[B7R]

17 minutes ago, Arrows to Athens said:

I don't know what's worse: the OC itself or the ones defending it.

I'm probably going to get in trouble for dragging this further by the moderators but watching those who see no problems scurry to defend the OC is providing some quality entertainment this afternoon for myself that's for sure. 

 

But let's see what's worse emmm, let's see what Ol B7R can think of

 

Orbital Cannon 

 

Enables players to be even more toxic in an online game that's literally already filled to the brim with toxic players

Easily exploitable (even more if you have the free shot but not the money) 

Allows Cryhards to get a cheap kill on you out of the blue and then b*tch that they got you and one up you 

Players give up on fighting, just resort to to the cheap kill. It's like weapons & ground combat is a dying form in this game

Players when they use the OC like to now suddenly think their hot sh*t 

 

+ Probably more (feel free to add on if you want)

 

Defenders 

 

Defending the OC to any means necessary

If you get hit by it, you deserved it

If you were in the middle of selling business stock and you got hit by it, you deserved it for being in a public session (I don't think anyone has said this yet but I know someone will be keen to make that point so I'll add it) 

The exploits are nothing to worry about

Get under cover if you know it's coming - So players are now supposed to spend their playtime hiding in fear because some bored player with access to the Orbital cannon wants to make it a mission to ruin someones playtime.  Also let's not forget that it's been proven now that being undercover (like in a car park for instance) won't protect you from the OC shot. 

Onus is on the other players to check every two seconds for the facility

 

& more. 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by B7R

[gtafan26]

The few times ive been obliterated by the canon, it was never random, there was always a reason, and all the times I seen someone get the OC shot, the kill feed show the two players killing each other for a period of time before hand.

 

 I am not defending BigM's defending the OC, but he does make some valid points once you think that you are going to be a target,  outside of that , no,  people are not going around randomly killing people with the OC enough to make it something we all have to worry about.

 

Half the time I don't even think about the damn thing.

 

just my 1.5 cents, YMMV.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Big Molio said:

I hold to two facts, which are indisputable;

 

a) Rich or not, the cost is expensive at $500,000 or $750,000 a shot. Not expensive to the rich. Disputed

b) The cool down, when used legitimately, prevents repeat usage. but...obviously it ISNT being use legitimately. Disputed

Regardless,   these two facts don't support your argument that the OC is balanced.  a) the price making the auto-kill fair is simply your opinion. It doesn't prove balance and again price is irrelevant to the rich.  b) again the cooldown is after the fact.  It doesn't make the initial kill with it balanced.

 

And those reasons have been countered in points a) and b) above. What you did in fact was just invoke the GTAO Godwin's Law and ultimately end up deferring to glitching and cheating, because there is nowhere else to take this argument.

And your counter missed badly. a) is just your opinion and b) is after the fact therefor doesn't make the intial feature itself balanced.  In fact one can argue the cooldown is proof it ISNT balanced. lol

 

You might think I am being stubborn, and maybe I am, but from where I am sat, none of you can make a reasonable case against the OC without deferring to players' abuse of it via an unfortunate glitch / exploit which isn't actually part of its feature by design.

A reasonable case has been made many times by myself and many others in here.  You just counter with strawman arguments.  How does your opinion that 750k is a fair price for an auto-kill make the feature balanced?  smh  Is Godmode balanced?  OC is basically the same concept.  They can kill you and you cant kill them back but the difference is with the OC they don't even need to be near you to kill you.  That's not balanced and a steep price doesn't make it so.  It doesn't protect me or give me a chance to counter.  Its not meant to be balanced tho.  its meant o troll with that's why they added a steep price and cooldown.  Because they know its an unbalanced feature. lol  Im done tho agree to disagree.

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by BumpyJohnson

[TheGhostFromPast]

9 hours ago, Big Molio said:

I don't need to. The prohibitive cost per shot and lengthy cool down end the argument for me as to whether it is balanced or not. I think that it is. The argument is sound. 

 

All you have is to repeatedly defer to cheating, which is like arguing that guns shouldn't be sold because some people will do unlawful things with them. You can't account for people who defy the rules, in life or on GTAO. 

 

There are lots of ways to destroy you and your cargo with one shot. I did say this in my previous post. I could lay a sticky bomb trap along your route. Boom. You're all gone with the click of a button whilst I watch from four blocks away. Unbalanced?

 

You seem to be trying to make two arguments, and then conflating them.

 

 

 

I told you already that orbital cannon is able to obliterate players and cargo with one shot because Rockstar gave it such ability, not cheaters, but it looks like you ignore this fact.

 

We're not talking about a game where cooldown and price per shot could actually balance something. We're talking about a game where cheaters can abuse cooldown and price per shot without any problems, which is why cooldown and price per shot doesn't make any difference.

 

In order to lay a sticky bomb trap along my route you have to get there first and I doubt that you'll manage to blow up my cargo with a sticky bomb in a situation where distance between me and you is more than 8 kilometers while distance between me and drop-off point is less than 1 kilometer.

 

 

 

 

P.S.

 

Don't try to tell me that I should tolerate griefer's and cheater's dream tool just because you tolerate it!

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by TheGhostFromPast

[Big Molio]

52 minutes ago, TheGhostFromPast said:

I told you already that orbital cannon is able to obliterate players and cargo with one shot because Rockstar gave it such ability, not cheaters, but it looks like you ignore this fact.

 

We're not talking about a game where cooldown and price per shot could actually balance something. We're talking about a game where cheaters can abuse cooldown and price per shot without any problems, which is why cooldown and price per shot doesn't make any difference.

So again, I repeat, for the umpteenth time. Cheating is the issue.

 

52 minutes ago, TheGhostFromPast said:

In order to lay a sticky bomb trap along my route you have to get there first and I doubt that you'll manage to blow up my cargo with a sticky bomb in a situation where distance between me and you is more than 8 kilometers while distance between me and drop-off point is less than 1 kilometer.

 

The point wasn't to argue the logistics of it, but merely to compare it as an equally destructive method of play.

 

52 minutes ago, TheGhostFromPast said:

 

 

P.S.

 

Don't try to tell me that I should tolerate griefer's and cheater's dream tool just because you tolerate it!

 

 

 

I'm not, I am simply making the argument that by itself, the principle of the OC doesn't cause as much of a nuisance as is being asserted.

[Big Molio]

4 hours ago, BumpyJohnson said:

 

Quote

I hold to two facts, which are indisputable;

 

 

a) Rich or not, the cost is expensive at $500,000 or $750,000 a shot. Not expensive to the rich. Disputed

 

 

I disagree. $750,000 for one kill in this game is expensive as an objective fact. Most players in this game that I see are below 250 rank. They tend to average each session between 100 and 200 rank. It is not often that you see high rank players in this game who would be legitimately rich. So they have either glitched the money, i.e. cheated, or they have bought it, to which blowing $750,000 on a one shot kill would prove expensive, in relation to how much real money buys you in GTA$

 

Quote

b) The cool down, when used legitimately, prevents repeat usage. 

but...obviously it ISNT being use legitimately. Disputed

 

Not disputed, because if you are going to use cheating to justify criticism of a game feature rather than the tackling the cheating, your argument is void.

 

Quote

Regardless,   these two facts don't support your argument that the OC is balanced.  a) the price making the auto-kill fair is simply your opinion. It doesn't prove balance and again price is irrelevant to the rich.  b) again the cooldown is after the fact.  It doesn't make the initial kill with it balanced.

 

The cost is prohibitive to most players, and is often a last resort, usually after an exchange that they have lost. It's a face-saving tool, which is not only comically expensive for them, but the cool down restricts repeat use. The cost and frequency of use restriction are what balances it. If it was $1,000 a go and you could use it every couple of minutes, then yes, it would be an unbalanced nightmare, but it isn't.

 

Quote

And those reasons have been countered in points a) and b) above. What you did in fact was just invoke the GTAO Godwin's Law and ultimately end up deferring to glitching and cheating, because there is nowhere else to take this argument.

 

And your counter missed badly. a) is just your opinion and b) is after the fact therefor doesn't make the intial feature itself balanced.  In fact one can argue the cooldown is proof it ISNT balanced. lol

 

 

The cool down balances it by placing a heavy restriction on the frequency of its use. A one shot kill for which you have to pay through the nose to use does not unbalance the game man.

 

Quote

You might think I am being stubborn, and maybe I am, but from where I am sat, none of you can make a reasonable case against the OC without deferring to players' abuse of it via an unfortunate glitch / exploit which isn't actually part of its feature by design.

 

 

A reasonable case has been made many times by myself and many others in here.  You just counter with strawman arguments.  How does your opinion that 750k is a fair price for an auto-kill make the feature balanced?  smh  Is Godmode balanced?  OC is basically the same concept.  They can kill you and you cant kill them back but the difference is with the OC they don't even need to be near you to kill you.  That's not balanced and a steep price doesn't make it so.  It doesn't protect me or give me a chance to counter.  Its not meant to be balanced tho.  its meant o troll with that's why they added a steep price and cooldown.  Because they know its an unbalanced feature. lol  Im done tho agree to disagree.

 

 

I haven't made a strawman, the strawman element of this debate could be said to be those setting up the false argument that cheating makes the OC unbalanced, when in fact it is the cheating itself which is making it so. We can agree to disagree.

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Big Molio

[nealmac]

On 12/17/2019 at 4:57 PM, Big Molio said:

In what way? Game play or thematically? Because I would argue that for both, it fits well enough.

In every way. In every way imaginable. It is a griefer's tool and nothing more. One might argue that Rockstar encourages griefing. Yet they also have an option to report people for griefing. So Rockstar's logic is already flawed. This is a weapon that player's can pay $750,000 to make a guaranteed kill. There is no skill to using it whatsoever. It's literally a "pay to win" gimmick.

Edited December 19, 2019 by nealmac

[Big Molio]

53 minutes ago, nealmac said:

In every way. In every imaginable. It is a griefer's tool and nothing more. One might argue that Rockstar encourages griefing. Yet they also have an option to report people for griefing. So Rockstar's logic is already flawed. This is a weapon that player's can pay $750,000 to make a guaranteed kill. There is no skill to using it whatsoever. It's literally a "pay to win" gimmick.

It isn't guaranteed, I missed with it once on automatic targeting, much to my embarrassment. As said, putting aside the cheating which allows for cool down bypass and payment glitches which will blight any game, the Orbital Cannon cannot really be said to be a griefer's tool. You can use it once every in-game day legitimately (every 48:00 minutes) 

 

One kill with it every 48:00 real-time minutes at considerable cost cannot reasonably be called a griefer's tool.

 

The problem is the cheating and exploits, and it is that which needs sorting out.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Big Molio

[nealmac]

3 hours ago, Big Molio said:

It isn't guaranteed, I missed with it once on automatic targeting, much to my embarrassment. As said, putting aside the cheating which allows for cool down bypass and payment glitches which will blight any game, the Orbital Cannon cannot really be said to be a griefer's tool. You can use it once every in-game day legitimately (every 48:00 minutes) 

 

One kill with it every 48:00 real-time minutes at considerable cost cannot reasonably be called a griefer's tool.

 

The problem is the cheating and exploits, and it is that which needs sorting out.

Ok then. 99% guaranteed 

 

It's a pussy weapon. Nothing more. And anyone using it is obviously desperate for a kill. There's no legitimate reason for such desperation.

 

And yes, the cheating is also a problem. It makes an already bad situation worse.

Edited December 18, 2019 by nealmac

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Big Molio said:

 

I disagree. $750,000 for one kill in this game is expensive as an objective fact. Most players in this game that I see are below 250 rank. They tend to average each session between 100 and 200 rank. It is not often that you see high rank players in this game who would be legitimately rich. So they have either glitched the money, i.e. cheated, or they have bought it, to which blowing $750,000 on a one shot kill would prove expensive, in relation to how much real money buys you in GTA$

lol  At best this is all just a "theory" not a fact and it cant be objective when (An objective view is a perspective you take which is not your own. It's when you put your views aside, step outside the view that you would take, and consider something from other perspectives).  You have not done this.  You've just given your "opinion" that 750k is a fair trade.  You have presented ZERO facts that make it fair tho.  Now you're strawman again trying to prove that not many ppl have enough money to use the canon at will.  lol

 

Not disputed, because if you are going to use cheating to justify criticism of a game feature rather than the tackling the cheating, your argument is void.

This is a debate so Im disputing your argument.  wtf?  Part of my dispute is glitching the canon is a major way its used today so cheating HAS to be included when discussing the Canon's balance.  You cant just ignore the exploiting aspect when that's how most ppl are using it.  When quitting out is fixed only then will it be a void argument.  Right now tho quitting out is more of a valid argument than the price being fair.

 

The cost is prohibitive to most players, and is often a last resort, usually after an exchange that they have lost. It's a face-saving tool, which is not only comically expensive for them, but the cool down restricts repeat use. The cost and frequency of use restriction are what balances it. If it was $1,000 a go and you could use it every couple of minutes, then yes, it would be an unbalanced nightmare, but it isn't.

What graph or info are you using to determine that 750k is a fair price?  and again cooldown is irrelevant when ppl can just leave.  You ignore this like it doesn't factor in but most people who use the canon do this.  Also,  a cooldown doesn't balance anything.  The tool is still unfair wether I'm able to use it back to back or once.  All it takes is 1 shot to blow up my 2mil bunker sale then he/she can just leave the session and not be retaliated on and there is no "if",  people DO use it every couple of minutes AND don't pay.  Wtf you mean if?

 

I haven't made a strawman, the strawman element of this debate could be said to be those setting up the false argument that cheating makes the OC unbalanced, when in fact it is the cheating itself which is making it so. We can agree to disagree.

Strawman is using winnable arguments like "OC is expensive" to try and support and win the intial argument "OC is balanced".  That's all you've done.  Along with expressing your "opinion" that the price is fair as fact and ignoring the exploiting aspect like it isn't a major factor in the OC use.  Neither which prove balance.  Only one speaking fallacies is you bud.

 

Quote

I am simply making the argument that by itself, the principle of the OC doesn't cause as much of a nuisance as is being asserted.

Your argument was the OC is a balanced feature not "its not as bad as you guys claim"?  lol   You have yet to prove balance tho just your opinion.  The one shot auto-kill from an invincible place (basically godmode) is the biggest problem with the principle of the OC.  Being able to exploit it just makes it worse.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by BumpyJohnson

[TheGhostFromPast]

7 hours ago, Big Molio said:

So again, I repeat, for the umpteenth time. Cheating is the issue.

 

The point wasn't to argue the logistics of it, but merely to compare it as an equally destructive method of play.

 

I'm not, I am simply making the argument that by itself, the principle of the OC doesn't cause as much of a nuisance as is being asserted.

 

And once again it looks like you ignore a fact that Rockstar has designed OC in a way which allows to obliterate players and cargo with one shot!

 

I understand when people defend things like flying sausage (Oppressor MK II) and Deluxo, because these things can help players earn money in game, but OC is nothing more than a perfect tool for griefers and cheaters.

 

Seems like you also ignore a fact that attempt to blow up cargo with sticky bombs can go at least in two different ways. First one is where this attempt is successful and second one is where this attempt failed.

 

It's different with orbital cannon. It's very damn rare when cheater or griefer fails to obliterate other people with OC.

 

 

P.S.

 

You can repeat those things you've been repeating whole time as much as you want, but you won't convince me with those arguments. 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by TheGhostFromPast

[Black-Dragon96]

3 hours ago, Big Molio said:

The problem is the cheating and exploits, and it is that which needs sorting out.

No pal, the problem is the canon itself, or better worded that it lets you turn glitched money into free kills.

You can buy an avenger with glitched money, you can buy a khanjali with glitched money you can buy explosive rounds with glitched money, but none of these can be abused JUST BECAUSE you have glitched money.

500 Trillion gta $ wont get you a kill if you dont know how to use your explosive rifle or if you don't know how to fly a plane. There are an absolute f*ckton of modded accounts on PC. Mostly griefing accounts with all the griefer toys unlocked and bought right from the start a 1000+ rank and plenty of cash to buy explo-ammo. Funny thing is they are so utterly sh*te at what they are doing that they could not hit the broadside of a barn at 400 meters. You can outsnipe their sh*tty lazerminiguns because they have no idea how to aim the bloody thing.

The simple reason for that is that money DOES NOT buy you skill.

 

The problem is, it DOES with the orbital canon. You only need to drop 750k for autotargeting and unless your target is lucky that he is under a structure that the canon does not go through he is done.

750k buy you the "skill" for a single kill.

 

3 hours ago, Big Molio said:

One kill with it every 48:00 real-time minutes at considerable cost cannot reasonably be called a griefer's tool.

Yes it can, because there is no other practical use to it.

Its there for people who want easy kills nothing else. And if the only use of something is to get get kills without having the balls to get them while facing your oponent and the option that you might die in the process, then this object does not deserve any other description than griefer toy.

[Big Molio]

2 hours ago, TheGhostFromPast said:

 

And once again it looks like you ignore a fact that Rockstar has designed OC in a way which allows to obliterate players and cargo with one shot!

Which I don't think is that much of an issue when compared alongside other in-game nuisances such as the Oppressor 2, explosive sniper etc - all of which can cause far more repeat damage than the OC when used legitimately.

 

Quote

 

Seems like you also ignore a fact that attempt to blow up cargo with sticky bombs can go at least in two different ways. First one is where this attempt is successful and second one is where this attempt failed.

 

It's different with orbital cannon. It's very damn rare when cheater or griefer fails to obliterate other people with OC.

 

 

P.S.

 

You can repeat those things you've been repeating whole time as much as you want, but you won't convince me with those arguments. 

 

Fair enough, we agree to disagree.

 

2 hours ago, BumpyJohnson said:

 

 

I give up then. a) because you keep messing the quotes up, making it difficult to respond, and b) because you are interminably deferring to the fact that it is cheating players who are causing so much trouble with the OC. I cannot make a reasonable defense of an in-game feature if you insist on pointing to its illegitimate use as reason to get rid of it. I think that it is skewed logic to advocate getting rid of something because it is being used unlawfully rather than tackling the mechanics that allow it to be used this way.

1 hour ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

No pal, the problem is the canon itself, or better worded that it lets you turn glitched money into free kills.

 

Nope, same with you mate, your problem is that cheats are exploiting it. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Big Molio

[Black-Dragon96]

15 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

Which I don't think is that much of an issue when compared alongside other in-game nuisances such as the Oppressor 2, explosive sniper etc - all of which can cause far more repeat damage than the OC when used legitimately.

Youve got to be joking.

Sure both of them may fire faster, but both are limited in range and (thats the main point) can be activly fought.

I can shoot down an mk2 before it can even lock on me or I can shoot that explo sniper guy a new bodyopening. I can not do that with a guy standing at his orbital canon table with the finger on the button.

 

15 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

Nope, same with you mate, your problem is that cheats are exploiting it.

So you are just conviniently ignoring 90% of my post to continue spreading your opinion as fact. gg

[Big Molio]

4 minutes ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

Youve got to be joking.

Sure both of them may fire faster, but both are limited in range and (thats the main point) can be activly fought.

I can shoot down an mk2 before it can even lock on me or I can shoot that explo sniper guy a new bodyopening. I can not do that with a guy standing at his orbital canon table with the finger on the button.

I've seen you play and you can't do any of that lol (I jest)

 

I would argue that a determined (and good) player like me would be much more of a headache to you trying to deliver your goods in the 48:00 minutes allowable between OC shots. An infrequent, one shot kill is not much to complain about compared to a frenzied, multi-OP2 spamming, OTR maniac determined to ruin your day.

 

Quote

 

So you are just conviniently ignoring 90% of my post to continue spreading your opinion as fact. gg

It's mostly rhetoric, so not worth responding to.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Big Molio

[Tekno1]

Iwe only ever once been blow up with it... So i dont really know

[nealmac]

7 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

I would argue that a determined (and good) player like me would be much more of a headache to you trying to deliver your goods in the 48:00 minutes allowable between OC shots. An infrequent, one shot kill is not much to complain about compared to a frenzied, multi-OP2 spamming, OTR maniac determined to ruin your day.

See, the thing is, being able to grief someone on a product sale run with a single headshot (although I don't get why you would do that on someone) takes practice, experience and skill. Higher rank also makes it easier. Hell, even firing a couple of missiles from a MKII takes a bit of skill and effort (f*ck all, admittedly) to take out someone. The OC on the other hand doesn't require any of that. It's basically paying money to kill another player, irrespective of cheaters that abuse it. It's sending out a message saying that paying to win is the way forward.

[Black-Dragon96]

10 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

I've seen you play and you can't do any of that lol (I jest)

 

I would argue that a determined (and good) player like me would be much more of a headache to you trying to deliver your goods in the 48:00 minutes allowable between OC shots. An infrequent, one shot kill is not much to complain about compared to a frenzied, multi-OP2 spamming, OTR maniac determined to ruin your day.

So you have seen me play. Funny, I dont remember playing on console, because I don't own one.

 

For the second part, nah I dont think so. Mainly because I dont sell in public on the rare occasion I do sell something.

Also that 48:00 min safespace would be correct if there would not be 28 other possible orbital agressors. There is no safety unless these other 28 are on a cooldown too.

[Big Molio]

13 minutes ago, nealmac said:

See, the thing is, being able to grief someone on a product sale run with a single headshot (although I don't get why you would do that on someone) takes practice, experience and skill. Higher rank also makes it easier. Hell, even firing a couple of missiles from a MKII takes a bit of skill and effort (f*ck all, admittedly) to take out someone. The OC on the other hand doesn't require any of that. It's basically paying money to kill another player, irrespective of cheaters that abuse it. It's sending out a message saying that paying to win is the way forward.

This is where I think that the cost per shot and cool down tempers its use almost into a method of last resort. It's a hell of a lot of money for just one kill. The odd times I have been hit with it have been because I have been getting the upper hand in freemode battles, and the OC has been used against me in frustration. I consider it an honour. My work is done. lol

 

Even at times when you could have some fun with the OC, i.e. taking out a group of players gathered for Stand Your Ground for example, it is still a waste of money. You can't win that job from your facility.

 

9 minutes ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

So you have seen me play. Funny, I dont remember playing on console, because I don't own one.

It was just a joke (I did say as much)

 

Quote

 

For the second part, nah I dont think so. Mainly because I dont sell in public on the rare occasion I do sell something.

Also that 48:00 min safespace would be correct if there would not be 28 other possible orbital agressors. There is no safety unless these other 28 are on a cooldown too.

It's an illustrative point rather than something to be taken absolutely literally.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Big Molio

[Tomtomsengermany]

When someone is teleporting himself to his base just call for the bandito. 

 

If you get hit by the orbital cannon while you driving around in your bandito he still has to pay 750k but  wont get the kill

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Tomtomsengermany

[TheGhostFromPast]

1 hour ago, Big Molio said:

Which I don't think is that much of an issue when compared alongside other in-game nuisances such as the Oppressor 2, explosive sniper etc - all of which can cause far more repeat damage than the OC when used legitimately.

 

Flying sausage worse than OC?! Don't make me laugh!   How successful griefing is with those tools you mentioned depends from situation and player's skills while for OC you don't need skills and griefing with OC will be successful in 99% cases. 

 

And yet again and again and again it looks like you ignore this! 

 

 

By the way! Some time ago my friend went outside his apartment in a public session and it didn't take even five minutes for someone to obliterate him with OC! Cool, huh?!   

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by TheGhostFromPast

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Big Molio said:

I give up then. a) because you keep messing the quotes up, making it difficult to respond, and b) because you are interminably deferring to the fact that it is cheating players who are causing so much trouble with the OC. I cannot make a reasonable defense of an in-game feature if you insist on pointing to its illegitimate use as reason to get rid of it. I think that it is skewed logic to advocate getting rid of something because it is being used unlawfully rather than tackling the mechanics that allow it to be used this way.

Nope, same with you mate, your problem is that cheats are exploiting it. 

lol  a) difficult to respond?  Wtf?  lol  All I did was quote you and added my responses within the quotes instead of breaking your post into individual quotes?  Its too hard for you to do the same?  Poor excuse to quit but hey you not lookin good at all in this debate so its best.  b) No this is what you keep telling yourself.  I have repeatedly mentioned other reasons for its unbalance and so have many others.  You just choose to only acknowledge our exploit arguments so you can continue to say "your arguments are against exploiting not the canon itself". 

 

You cannot make a reasonable defense for the OC because...1) you refuse to include the exploit aspect of it even tho that's how its mostly being used,  2) your argument is based on your "opinion" the price is fair and the cooldown makes it balanced and 3) your online experience is a very small fraction of the overall GTA community so its impossible for you to make an accurate assessment of the OC's balance to the community as a whole.  You can only speak for yourself.

 

1 hour ago, Big Molio said:

Which I don't think is that much of an issue when compared alongside other in-game nuisances such as the Oppressor 2, explosive sniper etc - all of which can cause far more repeat damage than the OC when used legitimately.

lol  You really trying to compare the OC to a MKII or explosive snipe?  Are you serious?  lol  This is your rebuttal? smh  MKII,  explosive rounds,  tank,  jet,  whatever with missles can all be blocked with armor vehicles,  can all be countered and destroyed AND players still have to execute successfully with some sort of skill to get the kill.  Not the OC.  I cant block the strike with armor vehicles,  I cant counter or destroy it or the person using it and it takes no skill as the game does the strike for you.  Also,  you cant use these as examples to justify the canon anyway when they all have been complained about AND nerfed/buffed for balance.

Edited December 18, 2019 by BumpyJohnson

[Big Molio]

12 minutes ago, TheGhostFromPast said:

 

Flying sausage worse than OC?! Don't make me laugh!   How successful griefing is with those tools you mentioned depends from situation and player's skills while for OC you don't need skills and griefing will be successful in 99% cases. 

 

 

And yet again and again and again it looks like you ignore this! 

You wouldn't think so with the amount of teeth-gnashing that goes on about the OP2 and its apparent zero-skill-requirement-griefer-tool. 

 

Quote

 

 

By the way! Some time ago my friend went outside his apartment in a public session and it didn't take even five minutes for someone to obliterate him with OC! Cool, huh?!   

 

So what? I hang around on rooftops and explosive snipe people coming out of their apartments as soon as they appear. And it costs me far less per shot.

 

10 minutes ago, BumpyJohnson said:

lol  a) difficult to respond?  Wtf?  lol  All I did was quote you and added my responses within the quotes instead of breaking your post into individual quotes?  Its too hard for you to do the same?  Poor excuse to quit but hey you not lookin good at all in this debate so its best.  b) No this is what you keep telling yourself.  I have repeatedly mentioned other reasons for its unbalance and so have many others.  You just choose to only acknowledge our exploit arguments so you can continue to say "your arguments are against exploiting not the canon itself". 

Because the exploit and cheat arguments are the primary cause of the complaints. I think that deferring to something being used unlawfully is a poor excuse for removing it. Get rid of the cheating. 

 

Quote

You cannot make a reasonable defense for the OC because...1) you refuse to include the exploit aspect of it even tho that's how its mostly being used,  2) your argument is based on your "opinion" the price is fair and the cooldown makes it balanced and 3) your online experience is a very small fraction of the overall GTA community so its impossible for you to make an accurate assessment of the OC's balance to the community as a whole.  You can only speak for yourself.

I have never said in any of my posts that "the price is fair". What I have said repeatedly is that I think that the cost of up to $750,000 per shot and cool down period of 48:00 minutes makes for an inherent balance because those factors are both a built-in deterrent and frequency restriction in proportion to the OC's firepower. (No doubt we will go around this merry-go-round again and you will remind me about glitchers and cheaters ad infinitum, but as said, the glitching and cheating is the issue here as far as I can see)

 

Sure, I can only speak for myself, and I am giving you an honest appraisal of how severe I think the issue of the OC is i.e. not very, all things considered.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Big Molio