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AutobotJazz1

Should the Orbital Cannon be removed?

Remove it or Keep it  

465 members have voted

  1. 1. Orbital Cannon

    • Keep it
      145
    • Try to balance it
      73
    • Remove it
      247


Recommended Posts

Talisman_83
1 minute ago, TheGhostFromPast said:

 

Because it's not possible to do something like MC business in invite only session. 

 

 

If I would check constantly map while doing delivery then I doubt I would earn anything from MC business, hangar, CEO etc.

The last time I checked, its possible to do it in a low MTU session.

Its been years since I sold in a public session.

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Big Molio

You have to constantly check the map, whatever you are doing. Look at people who are on Oppressors, in their houses or facilities, those who are red from kicking off in the lobby. Keep your ears open for explosions and sounds of other chaos on the map, that often gives you an idea of what is going on. Look for crews and individuals who disappear off the map but are still in the players list. Have they warped? Have they called in their R/C. Plan your route. Any players up ahead? What is the plan if you get followed etc

 

Just keep your wits about you in general.

Edited by Big Molio
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TheGhostFromPast
1 minute ago, Talisman_83 said:

The last time I checked, its possible to do it in a low MTU session.

Its been years since I sold in a public session.

 

I can make a solo public session with task manager method, but that doesn't turn public session into invite only session. People still can join in any time.

 

 

1 minute ago, Big Molio said:

You have to constantly check the map, whatever you are doing. Look at people who are on Oppressors, in their houses or facilities, those who are red from kicking off in the lobby. Keep your ears open for explosions and sounds of other chaos on the map, that often gives you an idea of what is going on. Look for crews and individuals who disappear off the map but are still in the players list. Have they warped? Have they called in their R/C. 

 

Just keep your wits about you in general.

 

Not a problem to check that small map in left corner, that I can do while I drive and I can also pay attention to noises, but to stop just to check big map?! Like I said before that is literally saying please kill me and destroy my cargo. 

 

 

Still, despite that I agree that cheaters are bigger problem than tools, I think such things as orbital cannon shouldn't be in a game, where it's possible to cheat so much.

 

 

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NULL AND VOID

Since everybody wants to remove the orbital cannon from the facility what would that room be used for then? 4 person facility defense system like in Doomsday act 1?

 

Facility Raids anyone?! LOL ...I'm coming to steal your bowl of candies! 

Edited by NULL AND VOID

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Talisman_83
8 minutes ago, TheGhostFromPast said:

I can make a solo public session with task manager method, but that doesn't turn public session into invite only session. People still can join in any time.

Ah you're on PC. 

Sorry, can't really help you with that one!

All I know is the PS4 method.

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TheGhostFromPast
5 minutes ago, Talisman_83 said:

Ah you're on PC. 

Sorry, can't really help you with that one!

All I know is the PS4 method.

 

It's okay.  There's a way how to make sure that solo public session is permanently solo session, but I don't like the idea that in order to make it happen I have to block ports.

 

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BumpyJohnson
On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 2:04 PM, Big Molio said:

With respect Bumpy, all you are offering here is to repeat Black Dragon’s complaint, and that is to point out that the feature is abused by glitchers / cheaters who are exploiting a way of using it illegitimately outside of the prescribed cool down. My argument is sound, because I am basing it on it being used within the game’s inherent constraints. Any glitch or cheat or exploit used to gain an advantage is unfair, but that doesn’t mean the principle of a feature is by itself unbalanced.

Your argument is NOT sound bcuz its based on how R* intended it to be used and not how people actually use it.  Fact > theory bud.  You trying to exclude the glitching aspect of it but its unintentionally part of the feature as R* cant fix it.  You can choose to exclude it just to give your argument a chance but in reality its part of the feature.  Until they eliminate the ability to glitch it you have to include this aspect of its existence when determining its balance.

 

Even if we ignore the above points,  your argument that the principle of the OC itself is balanced is still nonsense.  OC is a free automatic kill from an invincible position.  Explain the balance in that.  The steep price doesn't balance that especially when you factor in that the people who use the OC strike are usually rich making the price is irrelevant.  So you either have ppl glitching it to not pay at all or ppl who are rich and it doesn't hurt them to pay.   Please explain how its balanced again or even better why it should stay in the game.

Edited by BumpyJohnson
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Big Molio
15 minutes ago, BumpyJohnson said:

Your argument is NOT sound bcuz its based on how R* intended it to be used and not how people actually use it.  Fact > theory bud.  You trying to exclude the glitching aspect of it but its unintentionally part of the feature as R* cant fix it.  You can choose to exclude it just to give your argument a chance but in reality its part of the feature.  Until they eliminate the ability to glitch it you have to include this aspect of its existence when determining its balance.

I really don't. There's a prohibitive cost, and a cool down to prevent repeat use. That is the order of play. If players have found an exploit, glitch or other cheat to enable illegitimate deployment beyond that which is designed then that is a flaw with the mechanics of how it is presented, but it doesn't reinforce the assertion that these glitches mean that the feature is unbalanced. A way to cheat a game does not make that game inherently unfair within its own rules.

 

Quote

 

Even if we ignore the above points,  your argument that the principle of the OC itself is balanced is still nonsense.  OC is a free automatic kill from an invincible position.  Explain the balance in that.  The steep price doesn't balance that especially when you factor in that the people who use the OC strike are usually rich making the price is irrelevant.  So you either have ppl glitching it to not pay at all or ppl who are rich and it doesn't hurt them to pay.   Please explain how its balanced again or even better why it should stay in the game.

I already have fella, as said. If somebody wants to pay an extortionate amount for a one shot kill, then the balance is inherent within the prohibitive cost. It is not a free automatic kill, it is a very expensive kill that you can actually still miss with, even with automatic targeting.

Edited by Big Molio

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BumpyJohnson

^^ If you want your argument to be sound then yes you DO have to acknowledge the glitch aspect when judging the balance as the glitching aspect IS part of the game and cant be removed.

 

No you haven't.  You just keep parroting your opinion about the price?  lol  Again this point is irrelevant because in most case the users are rich or glitch it which isn't a balanced trade off.  Its a free kill to the many glitchers since they don't pay.  You like to keep ignoring this fact for some reason.  Yes you can miss if they go under something or you use manual but you have to be dumb to miss so youre reaching. 

2 hours ago, Big Molio said:

It can't obliterate "everything" it destroys players and vehicles within a relatively small area, and it is avoidable if you are paying attention to the game. I defend it because of the reasons I have already explained. It is a one shot kill which is expensive and has a cool down. Your issue is with cheaters, and that isn't a good enough case for removing it in my opinion. I bet I've been hit with it less than a half-dozen times this year.

Youre defending it bcuz either you grief with it or your just want to debate with an opinion you think is right because the reasons you gave are weak.  So your arguments are 1) its expensive and 2) theres a cooldown.  lol  OK lets kill these real quick...

 

1) Expensive - You know that most ppl who use the OC are rich.  You've already verified this fact by acknowledging this in a previous post.  So explain how a steep price for a free kill is a fair trade for the rich.  Also,  again ppl glitch it to not pay.  You can exclude this aspect but as I said its part of the game so its a factor that must be taken into account when judging the OC.

 

2) Cooldown - 1st of all I don't see how this makes a free kill balanced in the least.  Please explain.  lol  Sure we cant do it back to back but that doesn't make the initial free kill balanced.  Also,  again the glitchers will just leave and come back and avoid the cooldown.  You can go on about that's cheating not the actual feature but oh it IS part of the actual experience because R* has yet to fix the problem so as long as it exists you cant exclude this in the debate.

Edited by BumpyJohnson
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Big Molio
9 minutes ago, BumpyJohnson said:

Youre defending it bcuz either you grief with it or your just want to debate with an opinion you think is right because the reasons you gave are weak.  So your arguments are 1) its expensive and 2) theres a cooldown.  lol  OK lets kill these real quick...

 

1) Expensive - You know that most ppl who use the OC are rich.  You've already verified this fact by acknowledging this in a previous post.  So explain how a steep price for a free kill is a fair trade for the rich.  Also,  again ppl glitch it to not pay.  You can exclude this aspect but as I said its part of the game so its a factor that must be taken into account when judging the OC.

Even the rich aren't stupid enough to blow their money on endless OC kills, and even if they were, the cool-down regulates its use to a frequency that cannot be considered by any reasonable person to be enough to grief with. Again, I discount any way to cheat that mechanic as a fair argument, because cheating is cheating.

 

Quote

2) Cooldown - 1st of all I don't see how this makes a free kill balanced in the least.  Please explain.  lol  Sure we cant do it back to back but that doesn't make the initial free kill balanced.  Also,  again the glitchers will just leave and come back and avoid the cooldown.  You can go on about that's cheating not the actual feature but oh it IS the actual feature because R* has yet to fix the problem so as long as it exists you cant exclude this in the debate.

It isn't free man, it is $500k for a manual shot, $750k for an automatic shot. You get one free kill.

 

I can exclude the glitching, and from where I am sat, this argument is all that you anti-orbital cannon complainants appear to have because all of you, to a man, have to defer to it every time. Any game mechanic within this game that can be used illegitimately to gain an advantage is going to be as problematic, but that doesn't make the feature inherently unbalanced. It is just being abused outside of the general rules of play.

 

Maybe try playing on console where you don't see such a level of cheating and other exploiting.

 

PS - I don't use it, too expensive.

Edited by Big Molio
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Lonely-Martin
1 hour ago, NULL AND VOID said:

Since everybody wants to remove the orbital cannon from the facility what would that room be used for then?

Cars.

 

Lots and lots of cars. 🤣

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BumpyJohnson
46 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

Even the rich aren't stupid enough to blow their money on endless OC kills, and even if they were, the cool-down regulates its use to a frequency that cannot be considered by any reasonable person to be enough to grief with. Again, I discount any way to cheat that mechanic as a fair argument, because cheating is cheating.

 

It isn't free man, it is $500k for a manual shot, $750k for an automatic shot. You get one free kill.

 

I can exclude the glitching, and from where I am sat, this argument is all that you anti-orbital cannon complainants appear to have because all of you, to a man, have to defer to it every time. Any game mechanic within this game that can be used illegitimately to gain an advantage is going to be as problematic, but that doesn't make the feature inherently unbalanced. It is just being abused outside of the general rules of play.

 

Maybe try playing on console where you don't see such a level of cheating and other exploiting.

 

PS - I don't use it, too expensive.

Don't change your argument.  You claimed the price makes it balanced and my rebuttal was not to the rich or those that glitch.  Now you want to switch up to an assumption that the rich wont blow their money stupidly.  You also stubbornly resort back to the cooldown argument which I've repeatedly shot down with the fact people leave and come back to avoid that.  Again until R* fixes the ability to leave and come back your cooldown argument is dead.

 

I meant free to the glitchers.  You can keeping ignoring this but Im not because again its a cemented part of the feature and Im willing to bet most of the people who use the canon do this.  Its common knowledge.

 

Sure you can exclude it in your argument but its a part of the game and cant be fixed so you're just being stuborn.  Glitching is the go to argument about the OC because its the biggest problem with it right now wtf you mean that's all we run to?  lol  Actually tho I've given other reasons why its not balanced besides glitching in previous posts.

 

Also,  I think you look at it wrong when it comes to whats unbalanced.  If a feature is being used illegitimately it is in fact unbalanced.  Why?  Because the way WE use said features determines its balance not the intent of its creation.  I'm sure everything R* made was thought of as balanced at first until glitchers show them differently then R* later nerfs or buffs things according to our play to balance it.  You seem to think something else.

 

I play on XB1 and see plenty of cheating and exploiting everyday. Don't know what glitch free sessions you're in but that's probably why your view is skewed.

Edited by BumpyJohnson
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Big Molio
32 minutes ago, BumpyJohnson said:

Don't change your argument.  You claimed the price makes it balanced and my rebuttal was not to the rich or those that glitch.  Now you want to switch up to an assumption that the rich wont blow their money stupidly.  You also stubbornly resort back to the cooldown argument which I've repeatedly shot down with the fact people leave and come back to avoid that.

I stubbornly hold to the cooldown argument bro in the same way that you stubbornly defer to glitching (cheating) a game element to suggest that it is therefore unbalanced. This argument is circular, but I hold to two facts, which are indisputable;

 

a) Rich or not, the cost is expensive at $500,000 or $750,000 a shot.

b) The cool down, when used legitimately, prevents repeat usage

 

Quote

 

I mean free to the glitchers.  You can keeping ignoring this but Im not because again its a cemented part of the feature and Im willing to bet most of the people who use the canon do this.

No it isn't a cemented part of the feature, it is an exploit which has been discovered that enables players to bypass the inherent cool down restriction. This is the same as people who warp to their hideouts to escape being killed by leaving Heist missions incomplete in their phone. It exists, but it is by no means a part of play that can be reasonably considered a regular feature by design. It is just something players have discovered and exploit to their advantage. It's a cheat.

 

Quote

Sure you can exclude it in your argument but its a part of the game and cant be fixed so you're just being stuborn.  Glitching is the go to argument about the OC because its the biggest problem with it right now wtf you mean that's all we run to?  lol 

Every argument against the OC will eventually come back to glitchers. Or cheaters. Every time. It's like GTA online's very own Godwin's Law, in that every argument about it will eventually lead to glitching, and cheating. Sure, glitching and cheating in anything is a problem, who would argue otherwise? But that doesn't mean the OC is unbalanced by design.

 

Quote

Actually tho I've given other reasons why its not balanced besides glitching multiple times in previous posts.  Also,  I think you look at it wrong when it comes to whats unbalanced.  If a feature is being used illegitimately it is in fact unbalanced that's why it has to be hotfixed or patched.  Why?  Because the way WE use said features determines its balance not the intent of its creation.  I'm sure everything R* made was thought of as balanced until we got a hold of it then R* later nerfs or buffs it to balance it.  You seem to think the opposite.

 

I play on XB1 and see plenty of cheating and exploiting everyday. Don't know what glitch free sessions you're in but that's probably why your view is skewed.

And those reasons have been countered in points a) and b) above. What you did in fact was just invoke the GTAO Godwin's Law and ultimately end up deferring to glitching and cheating, because there is nowhere else to take this argument.

 

You might think I am being stubborn, and maybe I am, but from where I am sat, none of you can make a reasonable case against the OC without deferring to players' abuse of it via an unfortunate glitch / exploit which isn't actually part of its feature by design.

 

How can cheating ever be considered an imbalance? It is just cheating.

Edited by Big Molio
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TheGhostFromPast
30 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

I stubbornly hold to the cooldown argument bro in the same way that you stubbornly defer to glitching (cheating) a game element to suggest that it is therefore unbalanced. This argument is circular, but I hold to two facts, which are indisputable;

 

Cooldown argument isn't good enough, because, like I said somewhere before, cheaters on PC can bypass it. 

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Big Molio
6 minutes ago, TheGhostFromPast said:

 

Cooldown argument isn't good enough, because, like I said somewhere before, cheaters on PC can bypass it. 

<sigh> I am not even having to try here.

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TheGhostFromPast
1 minute ago, Big Molio said:

<sigh> I am not even having to try here.

Sorry, but it looks like you're ignoring a fact that cheaters on GTA:O PC version can do so many things that it's easier to name all things they can't do on GTA:O PC version.

 

Can you come up with much better argument why that thing should stay in GTA:O?! 

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Big Molio
1 minute ago, TheGhostFromPast said:

Sorry, but it looks like you're ignoring a fact that cheaters on GTA:O PC version can do so many things that it's easier to name all things they can't do on GTA:O PC version.

 

Can you come up with much better argument why that thing should stay in GTA:O?! 

Whoa, hang on a minute there, can you come up with a better argument than to just repeat that cheaters are abusing it?

 

Because to my mind, that's where the problem is, not with the OC as a game feature per se.

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TheGhostFromPast
Just now, Big Molio said:

Whoa, hang on a minute there, can you come up with a better argument than to just repeat that cheaters are abusing it?

 

Because to my mind, that's where the problem is, not with the OC as a game feature per se.

 

And can you come up with a better argument than cooldown and price?! 

 

 Orbital cannon can obliterate cargo and players with ONE SHOT!!! I am pretty sure I said that somewhere before and that is why it shouldn't be in a game where cheaters can abuse everything!

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Big Molio
Just now, TheGhostFromPast said:

 

And can you come up with a better argument than cooldown and price?! 

 

 Orbital cannon can obliterate cargo and players with ONE SHOT!!! I am pretty sure I said that somewhere before and that is why it shouldn't be in a game where cheaters can abuse everything!

There are lots of things that can obliterate cargo and players with one shot. You can't just keep deferring to cheaters to bolster the argument because the fact is, it is the cheating which is the illegitimate element.  

 

The argument about cool-down and cost is sound, because without the unlawful element of the cheating, they provide a built-in method of restricted frequency to prevent repeat nuisance strikes. I shouldn't have to say this, you know that this is a fact.

 

You can only defer to "cheating" to make the case, but unlawful use of anything does not make it inherently imbalanced.

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TheGhostFromPast
7 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

There are lots of things that can obliterate cargo and players with one shot. You can't just keep deferring to cheaters to bolster the argument because the fact is, it is the cheating which is the illegitimate element.  

 

The argument about cool-down and cost is sound, because without the unlawful element of the cheating, they provide a built-in method of restricted frequency to prevent repeat nuisance strikes. I shouldn't have to say this, you know that this is a fact.

 

You can only defer to "cheating" to make the case, but unlawful use of anything does not make it inherently imbalanced.

 

Fact that orbital cannon can obliterate cargo and players with one shot has nothing to do with cheating. It's how it is designed. Cheaters only bypass it's cooldown and give themselves so much money that price per shot isn't a problem.

 

In a game where cheaters can't cheat so much cooldown and cost argument would be sound, but not in this case, because, like I said it before, cheaters will abuse/bypass these two things without any problems! 

 

Things, which can obliterate cargo and players with one shot, shouldn't be in video games, let alone in video games where cheaters can abuse everything!

 

I'll ask again! Can you come up with a better argument than cost and cooldown?! 

Edited by TheGhostFromPast
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Big Molio
12 minutes ago, TheGhostFromPast said:

 

Fact that orbital cannon can obliterate cargo and players with one shot has nothing to do with cheating. It's how it is designed. Cheaters only bypass it's cooldown and give themselves so much money that price per shot isn't a problem.

 

In a game where cheaters can't cheat so much cooldown and cost argument would be sound, but not in this case, because, like I said it before, cheaters will abuse/bypass these two things without any problems! 

 

Things, which can obliterate cargo and players with one shot, shouldn't be in video games, let alone in video games where cheaters can abuse everything!

 

I'll ask again! Can you come up with a better argument than cost and cooldown?! 

I don't need to. The prohibitive cost per shot and lengthy cool down end the argument for me as to whether it is balanced or not. I think that it is. The argument is sound. 

 

All you have is to repeatedly defer to cheating, which is like arguing that guns shouldn't be sold because some people will do unlawful things with them. You can't account for people who defy the rules, in life or on GTAO. 

 

There are lots of ways to destroy you and your cargo with one shot. I did say this in my previous post. I could lay a sticky bomb trap along your route. Boom. You're all gone with the click of a button whilst I watch from four blocks away. Unbalanced?

 

You seem to be trying to make two arguments, and then conflating them.

 

 

 

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YELLOW ZOOMER WITH DRONE
5 hours ago, Big Molio said:

Again, the issue is illegitimate use. All these arguments tend to come back eventually to the fact that it is being exploited by cheaters / session hoppers / money glitchers*. That isn't imbalance, it is people cheating, and thus isn't a sound case to argue. Players cheating in this game is going to be detrimental.

 

* delete as appropriate

 

Again, even if the game were free of cheaters, the mere concept of an almosy guatanteed kill on someone without it being able to defend himself or counterattack is absurdly balanced on itself. It doesn't matter if it cost 8 million per shot and a 24 hour cooldown, it would still be stupidly overpowered, if not outright broken.

 

The problem here is not that it gets exploited or that it's prohibitively costly, the problem here is about what the Orbital Cannon does and what's its purpose in the game.

 

5 hours ago, Big Molio said:

I’m sure, but most legitimate grinders (and Shark Card buyers) aren’t as likely to blow that kind of money on a single hit. 

There's a point in which some players have earned so much money ingame, than spending a million or two once in a while is not a big deal to them.

 

5 hours ago, Big Molio said:

Get under cover if you see somebody go to their facility, an overpass, a tunnel, a car park. It isn’t hard.

Good luck finding cover in the northern part of the map though.

 

5 hours ago, Big Molio said:

That’s because I don’t have any great issue with it. It isn't something that intrudes on my play much at all. I occasionally hear it in session, but not so frequently that I consider even a minor nuisance. 

"I don't have an issue with something, ergo, that thing isn't an issue."

 

Just because you don't get hit with the Orbital Cannon on a daily basis it doesn't mean that its presence in the game isn't problematic.

 

5 hours ago, Big Molio said:

In the context of the game universe with everything else we have, I don't feel it too much out of place either.

Flying cars, flying bikes, laser weapons, rogue AIs, aliens, orbital cannons.

 

One of these things is not like the others.

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YELLOW ZOOMER WITH DRONE
21 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

I don't need to. The prohibitive cost per shot and lengthy cool down end the argument for me as to whether it is balanced or not. I think that it is. The argument is sound. 

 

The ingame cost of something doesn't make it balanced, being able to counter it in some capacity does.

 

You can counter a Buzzard pretty easily, ergo, balanced.

 

Until this update, it was pretty hard to counter an Oppressor Mk II, ergo, unbalanced.

 

You can't counter the user of an Orbital Cannon at all. You can't kill him before he kills you and hiding from it.isn't a counter either. Ergo, f*cking unbalanced.

 

Neither the price of the Buzzard, Oppressor Mk II nor Orbital Cannon have anything.to.do with then being balanced or.not. Their combative abilities and having strenghts and weaknesses does and the Orbital Cannon has all strenght but no weakness.at.all.

 

Imagine that you could pay $15 to get a nuke.instantly on COD and win the match inmediately. Just because it costs money it's suddenly balanced? The Orbital Cannon is the same thing.

 

26 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

All you have is to repeatedly defer to cheating, which is like arguing that guns shouldn't be sold because some people will do unlawful things with them. You can't account for people who defy the rules, in life or on GTAO. 

You can't seriously compare guns, which are regulated irl by strict laws in.most countries, to a videogame.

 

31 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

There are lots of ways to destroy you and your cargo with one shot. I did say this in my previous post. I could lay a sticky bomb trap along your route. Boom. You're all gone with the click of a button whilst I watch from four blocks away. Unbalanced?

Not really. I could evade said sticku bomb, I could survive it if my vehicle is armored enough, I could kill you before, during or after you put it there, you're as vulnerable to relatation as I. Balanced

 

32 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

You seem to be trying to make two arguments, and then conflating them.

You seem to try to stick to your argument in.spite.of.it being disproven over and over.

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NULL AND VOID

Ya'll discussion about this orbital cannon makes me want to nuke the fux outta somebody...probably the casino entrance. We'll see 

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Big Molio
12 minutes ago, YELLOW DOG WITH CONE said:

 

Again, even if the game were free of cheaters, the mere concept of an almosy guatanteed kill on someone without it being able to defend himself or counterattack is absurdly balanced on itself. It doesn't matter if it cost 8 million per shot and a 24 hour cooldown, it would still be stupidly overpowered, if not outright broken.

Rubbish. One kill that comes at such a prohibitive cost and at such infrequency does not break this game.

 

12 minutes ago, YELLOW DOG WITH CONE said:

 

The problem here is not that it gets exploited or that it's prohibitively costly, the problem here is about what the Orbital Cannon does and what's its purpose in the game.

It doesn't need a "purpose", its presence in the game is just one more toy to play with.

 

12 minutes ago, YELLOW DOG WITH CONE said:

 

There's a point in which some players have earned so much money in-game, than spending a million or two once in a while is not a big deal to them.

"Once in a while" being the key phrase here. It's use on console is so infrequent that it is well down on the list of nuisance.

 

12 minutes ago, YELLOW DOG WITH CONE said:

 

Good luck finding cover in the northern part of the map though.

 

"I don't have an issue with something, ergo, that thing isn't an issue."

 

Just because you don't get hit with the Orbital Cannon on a daily basis it doesn't mean that its presence in the game isn't problematic.

I could counter that with "I find it a problem, thus it is objectively a problem" Perhaps players just don't like you? lol

 

12 minutes ago, YELLOW DOG WITH CONE said:

Flying cars, flying bikes, laser weapons, rogue AIs, aliens, orbital cannons.

 

One of these things is not like the others.

Is the answer "aliens" because they aren't from earth?

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Big Molio
24 minutes ago, YELLOW DOG WITH CONE said:

The ingame cost of something doesn't make it balanced, being able to counter it in some capacity does.

Not true. The prohibitive cost acts as a deterrent for use and the cool down restricts its frequency. Its power potential is proportionate to its cost and restriction. Balance isn't always about how things are countered, balance can also be applied to how and when you can actually use something in the first place. For example, many players have in the past insisted that if the player had to go to Zancudo to get the Lazer every time rather than call it in via Pegasus or personal vehicle, it would correct an imbalance, despite the Lazer's weaponry remaining the same.

 

Quote

 

You can counter a Buzzard pretty easily, ergo, balanced.

 

Until this update, it was pretty hard to counter an Oppressor Mk II, ergo, unbalanced.

 

You can't counter the user of an Orbital Cannon at all. You can't kill him before he kills you and hiding from it.isn't a counter either. Ergo, f*cking unbalanced.

See above.

 

Quote

 

Neither the price of the Buzzard, Oppressor Mk II nor Orbital Cannon have anything.to.do with then being balanced or.not. Their combative abilities and having strenghts and weaknesses does and the Orbital Cannon has all strenght but no weakness.at.all.

 

Imagine that you could pay $15 to get a nuke.instantly on COD and win the match inmediately. Just because it costs money it's suddenly balanced? The Orbital Cannon is the same thing.

If a gamer was willing to pay $15 to win a game of COD rather than play it then more fool him, most players would be deterred by such a high price and the same goes for the OC. In both scenarios, the user would be (and often is, in the case of the OC) roundly ridiculed.

 

Quote

 

You can't seriously compare guns, which are regulated irl by strict laws in.most countries, to a videogame.

Good job I didn't then. I made an allegory which highlights how the unlawful use of anything doesn't mean that its lawful use should be curtailed.

 

Quote

 

Not really. I could evade said sticku bomb, I could survive it if my vehicle is armored enough, I could kill you before, during or after you put it there, you're as vulnerable to relatation as I. Balanced

 

You seem to try to stick to your argument in.spite.of.it being disproven over and over.

That isn't what my argument proposed though. The argument was simply that there are multiple methods of making "one shot kills" from a relatively unassailable position other than the OC. It is you who is tying yourself in knots to try and disprove it, and failing as usual because you don't read properly what has been posted.

Edited by Big Molio

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Black-Dragon96
8 hours ago, Big Molio said:

Again, the issue is illegitimate use. All these arguments tend to come back eventually to the fact that it is being exploited by cheaters / session hoppers / money glitchers*. That isn't imbalance, it is people cheating, and thus isn't a sound case to argue. Players cheating in this game is going to be detrimental.

No pal, the problem is the canon itself AND the fact that it can be abused.

And a f*cking blind man would have been able to see what would happen once the blood thing would have been added.

If you know your game has a problem with moneyglitches, then i don't know maybe do not add something that gives these people even more power?

 

I mean if you would own an apartmentbuilding, and people would complain about that one noisy neighbour you probably would not rent out the rest of the apartment to 15 death metal bands who will use them a pracrice rooms.

Thing is the latter is what R* did with the canon.

 

8 hours ago, Big Molio said:

Get under cover if you see somebody go to their facility, an overpass, a tunnel, a car park. It isn’t hard.

 

Ah yes you mean the bridges and buildings that the orbital canon goes through like a hot knife through butter.

Not to mention the absolut metric f*ckton of multistory parking garages in this area of the map:

gta-online-heatmap_close-ups_north.jpg

 

Seriously show me 1 location in this area of the map that a) is 100% orbital canon proof, b) can fit 3 trashtrucks and c) not the tunnel going through mount chilliad.

 

 

And like I already, just because you have not been hit that does not mean others do not get hit either.

I personaly stoped counting after numer 30 in late may.

 

 

 

There is no practical use for the orbital canon. It is nothing but an overly expensive griefertoy for people want to blow up everyone on the map without ever being at risk to get killed a single time. It aims and fires automaticly and because of that is a 99% sure kill. The only way it could be any more broken is if it could target and kill players in interiors.

Its like starting a fight with a kid at school and then sending in you big brother to whoop your opponents a$$.

This stuff alone is more than enough reason to remove it.

And with the ways it can be abused it gets only worse.

Edited by Black-Dragon96
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Big Molio
18 minutes ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

No pal, the problem is the canon itself AND the fact that it can be abused.

And a f*cking blind man would have been able to see what would happen once the blood thing would have been added.

If you know your game has a problem with moneyglitches, then i don't know maybe do not add something that gives these people even more power?

 

I mean if you would own an apartmentbuilding, and people would complain about that one noisy neighbour you probably would not rent out the rest of the apartment to 15 death metal bands who will use them a pracrice rooms.

Thing is the latter is what R* did with the canon.

 

 

Ah yes you mean the bridges and buildings that the orbital canon goes through like a hot knife through butter.

Not to mention the absolut metric f*ckton of multistory parking garages in this area of the map:

gta-online-heatmap_close-ups_north.jpg

 

Seriously show me 1 location in this area of the map that a) is 100% orbital canon proof, b) can fit 3 trashtrucks and c) not the tunnel going through mount chilliad.

 

 

And like I already, just because you have not been hit that does not mean others do not get hit either.

I personaly stoped counting after numer 30 in late may.

 

 

 

There is no practical use for the orbital canon. It is nothing but an overly expensive griefertoy for people want to blow up everyone on the map without ever being at risk to get killed a single time. It aims and fires automaticly and because of that is a 99% sure kill. The only way it could be any more broken is if it could target and kill players in interiors.

Its like starting a fight with a kid at school and then sending in you big brother to whoop your opponents a$$.

This stuff alone is more than enough reason to remove it.

And with the ways it can be abused it gets only worse.

Without the money glitches and other cheating methods, how long would it take and how much would it cost for a player to blow up “everyone on the map” (your words) using the Orbital Cannon? Assuming a full lobby. 
 

Hyperbole doesn’t help man, better to be a bit more realistic about how frequently it is used. Come join me on console, you might hear it used twice in a week, playing in freemode for a couple of hours each night.

Edited by Big Molio

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Black-Dragon96
1 minute ago, Big Molio said:

Without the money glitches and other cheating methods, how long would it take and how much would it cost for a player to blow up “everyone on the map” (your words) using the Orbital Cannon? Assuming a full lobby. 
 

Hyperbole doesn’t help man, better to be a bit more realistic about how frequently it is used. Come join me on console, you might hear it used twice in a week, playing in freemode for a couple of hours each night.

The everyone was more meant, that you can target everyone no matter where they are on the map.

But if you wish, it only takes 1 second and 500k in the "best case" scenario.

 

And there will never be such a case, namely because there will never be a gta online without money glitches.

The orbital canon was added with R* knowing full well it will be abused the way it is. Thats the reason why there is a cooldown on it. If the amount of upfront payment would be enough to prevent abuse then there would not be the need for a cooldown. What they probably did not expect was the reset glitch that "removes" the cooldown.

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