Should the Orbital Cannon be removed?

[Arrows to Athens 17,486]

6 hours ago, justinlynch3 said:

Most people run a glitch where they leave the session after firing so they get the kill but don't pay, and can retry again immediately if they have a way of getting back into the same session (say they have a friend lurking around).

 

I've never done it but I know of it.     I would assume it must work somewhat the same as the height reset trick.

That's been a thing since the OC was implemented into the game and many people have done it on me.

[AutobotJazz1 5,306]

 

[TankGirl 2,945]

The orbital never bothered me. I always kept a close eye on whoever I was pissing off. If someone I was fighting teleported to their facility I would just go to mines and have a nuclear bomb stand off. 

[Black-Dragon96 7,482]

Remove it, refund the people who bought it!

 

It was not needed, it is not needed and it will never be needed.

It simply has no place in this game. There is no way to properly balance it or give it a use that does not boil down to griefing.

[askinnywhitedildo 2,705]

I say we all get OC's, and cause a nuclear holocaust for anyone we see on an Oppressor. 

 

Seriously, using this thing against people who deserve it, I'm fine with that. 

[Big Molio 9,185]

1 hour ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

Remove it, refund the people who bought it!

 

It was not needed, it is not needed and it will never be needed.

It simply has no place in this game. There is no way to properly balance it or give it a use that does not boil down to griefing.

There is a way to balance it. It is cost prohibitive, therefore balanced.

 

The only way to grief with it, realistically, is by cheating, or glitching, or using glitched money, but you could make that argument for any element of the game that is abused via illegitimate means.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Big Molio

[Black-Dragon96 7,482]

1 hour ago, Big Molio said:

There is a way to balance it. It is cost prohibitive, therefore balanced.

 

The only way to grief with it, realistically, is by cheating, or glitching, or using glitched money, but you could make that argument for any element of the game that is abused via illegitimate means.

 

Cost prohibitive? In a game with more moneyglitches and moneydrops than npcs on the roads?

The people who use it on a regular basis either have more money than they could spend in 10 years or abuse the glitch and never pay a single dollar.

 

And dont give me that: "The only way to grief with it, realistically, is by cheating, or glitching, or using glitched money, but you could make that argument for any element of the game that is abused via illegitimate means.".

No! Simply no!

You can not make this argument for anything else in this game except for one thing. A scriptkid on PC that blows you up with the press of a button or shoots you while he is in godmode.

Not even the goddamn MK2 can be abused to that level.

And there is one simple reason why?

You as the attacker are 100% invulnerable. You can not be harmed by anyone while you can attack everyone.

I can still khanjali the living sh*t out of a squeaker who is moving from side to side at the speed of usain bolt by the use of macros, I can still get a lucky headshot on a rpg spamming suicide looper and I can still turn an mk2 into a burning wreckage with my P996 Lazer. You can abuse all kinds of glitches but you still have to be there physicly an you can still be harmed by everyone else.

 

Nothing, I repeat nothing, except for a scriptkiddo is even remotely compareable to the power of the orbital canon. Even if a single shot would cost 100 Million GTA$ it would not be balanced more than it would be now.

There is no balance for this thing and there will never be a way to balance it. It will always be a tool for people who cant handle their sh*t themself to get kills without having to fear that they ever end up at the business end of a gun belonging to the guy they just attacked.

[30-Bario 6]

I dunno if it should be removed.. but it should trigger an account check... no legit player needs to spend that kinda money for a silly kill...  and if you do....  you should be looked at for being less than legit.

[Big Molio 9,185]

5 hours ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

 

Cost prohibitive? In a game with more moneyglitches and moneydrops than npcs on the roads?

The people who use it on a regular basis either have more money than they could spend in 10 years or abuse the glitch and never pay a single dollar.

 

And dont give me that: "The only way to grief with it, realistically, is by cheating, or glitching, or using glitched money, but you could make that argument for any element of the game that is abused via illegitimate means.".

No! Simply no!

You can not make this argument for anything else in this game except for one thing. A scriptkid on PC that blows you up with the press of a button or shoots you while he is in godmode.

Not even the goddamn MK2 can be abused to that level.

And there is one simple reason why?

You as the attacker are 100% invulnerable. You can not be harmed by anyone while you can attack everyone.

I can still khanjali the living sh*t out of a squeaker who is moving from side to side at the speed of usain bolt by the use of macros, I can still get a lucky headshot on a rpg spamming suicide looper and I can still turn an mk2 into a burning wreckage with my P996 Lazer. You can abuse all kinds of glitches but you still have to be there physicly an you can still be harmed by everyone else.

 

Nothing, I repeat nothing, except for a scriptkiddo is even remotely compareable to the power of the orbital canon. Even if a single shot would cost 100 Million GTA$ it would not be balanced more than it would be now.

There is no balance for this thing and there will never be a way to balance it. It will always be a tool for people who cant handle their sh*t themself to get kills without having to fear that they ever end up at the business end of a gun belonging to the guy they just attacked.

You have said a lot here @Black-Dragon96 but at the same time have not advanced any real argument, because your premise seems to rely on the fact that it is abused via players actually cheating, which can be a problem with anything. It appears to me that the Orbital Cannon’s abuse by cheats is your apparent issue, rather than the feature per se.
 

I rarely see it used on XBOX 1. The lack of glitch and cheat abuse on consoles that is apparently rife on PC means that it is cost prohibitive, and which in turn gives it a level of inherent balance. The fact that somebody is unassailable whilst they use it is irrelevant if its use is naturally restricted by its cost. If somebody wants to pay $750,000 for a one time kill on me because their ego is bruised then all power to them.
 

There are also ways to defend against it, but you have to be alert to the player being present in their facility and be able to pre-empt their (obvious) intentions.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Big Molio

[Black-Dragon96 7,482]

51 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

You have said a lot here @Black-Dragon96 but at the same time have not put any argument across, because your whole premise relies on the fact that it is abused via players actually cheating, which can be a problem with anything. 
 

It is the fact that cheats can abuse it that is your apparent issue, rather than the feature per se.
 

I rarely see it used on XBOX 1. The lack of glitch and cheat abuse on consoles that is apparently rife on PC thus gives it a level of inherent balance. If somebody wants to pay $750,000 for a one time kill on me because their ego is bruised then all power to them.

The argument is:

"You can use any moneyglitch or other glitch with anything but the orbital canon and you still have to be there and are at risk to get a bullet punched through your brain while you can use the orbital canon without that risk."

So even with glitches nothing is as bad as the orbital canon.

 

And just because you rarely see it used that does not mean its not getting used often. There are probably a lot of people with garages filled to the brim with duped sultans.

[Big Molio 9,185]

Just now, Black-Dragon96 said:

The argument is:

"You can use any moneyglitch or other glitch with anything but the orbital canon and you still have to be there and are at risk to get a bullet punched through your brain while you can use the orbital canon without that risk."

So even with glitches nothing is as bad as the orbital canon.

 

See my edited post. The fact that the player is safely tucked away in the facility is irrelevant when you consider its cost per use  and cool down. It is a one time thing that is insanely expensive. That then provides a means of balance.

 

You can create more havoc legitimately and safely from a rooftop halfway across the map using the explosive sniper than with the Orbital Cannon.

[Black-Dragon96 7,482]

9 hours ago, Big Molio said:

See my edited post. The fact that the player is safely tucked away in the facility is irrelevant when you consider its cost per use  and cool down. It is a one time thing that is insanely expensive. That then provides a means of balance.

 

You can create more havoc legitimately and safely from a rooftop halfway across the map using the explosive sniper than with the Orbital Cannon.

 

Its not irrelevant. Its the only thing where this is the case. And the cost and cooldown have no effect because there are glitches to avoid that.

That sniper guy can still get a hole drilled through his skull without ever hitting me even if he has indefinite money or uses a glitch to refill his ammo for free. He is also still limited in his range. Most people could not hit the broadside of a barn at 200 meters range, because they are to busy shuffeling around like a hyperactive monkey.

You can buy an insurgent with modded cash yet you can still get shot out of said insurgent.

These things are more balanced than the orbital canon ever will be.

Its a "pay money, get a kill and stay invulnurable to everyone while doing so" feature of bullsh*ttery.

 

And no, looking at the map to see if they are in their facility is not an option of defense.

If you are in the middle of a fight against multiple people you probably wont have the time to look at the map and if you are in the middle of a sale even seeing then there wont help you because you are stuck with your cargo.

And in the case that you are able to see them and teleport to an apartment, congrats you are now stuck there because the second you step out you are getting nuked by a 50 megaton explosion.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Black-Dragon96

[Big Molio 9,185]

 

Quote

Its not irrelevant. Its the only thing where this is the case. And the cost and cooldown have no effect because there are glitches to avoid that.

That sniper guy can still get a hole drilled through his skull without ever hitting me even if he has indefinite money or uses a glitch to refill his ammo for free. He is also still limited in his range. Most people could not hit the broadside of a barn at 200 meters range, because they are to busy shuffeling around like a hyperactive monkey.

You can buy an insurgent with modded cash yet you can still get shot out of said insurgent.

These things are more balanced than the orbital canon ever will be.

Its a "pay money, get a kill and stay invulnurable to everyone while doing so" feature of bullsh*ttery.

But again, with respect you are immediately deferring to the fact that the feature is abused with glitches and cheats in a bid to bolster your argument. Nearly anything can be made worse because of illegitimate play and abuse of the regular game mechanics. On console, where glitches and cheats are less prevalent, use of the Orbital Cannon is self-regulated by its cost per shot and cool down, meaning that it isn't used often enough to pose a nuisance.

 

Quote

 

And no, looking at the map to see if they are in their facility is not an option of defense.

If you are in the middle of a fight against multiple people you probably wont have the time to look at the map and if you are in the middle of a sale even seeing then there wont help you because you are stuck with your cargo.

And in the case that you are able to see them and teleport to an apartment, congrats you are now stuck there because the second you step out you are getting nuked by a 50 megaton explosion.

See above. You aren't strengthening the argument for removing it in my opinion. In the instances you describe, the Orbital Cannon poses no more of a danger than many other methods of attack, some of which are far more irritating.

 

In fact, you are just playing your usual hand, making lists of negative reasons why you can't do something.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Big Molio

[Black-Dragon96 7,482]

40 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

But again, with respect you are immediately deferring to the fact that the feature is abused with glitches and cheats in a bid to bolster your argument. On console, where glitches and cheats are less prevalent, use of the Orbital Cannon is self-regulated by its cost per shot and cool down, meaning that it isn't used often enough to pose a nuisance.

The fact that it is abuseable with glitches is just one part. Granted many things are but not to the degree that the orbital canon can be abused to.

And something that can be abused to that degree should not be in the game. Especially not if it is already a problem without these glitches.

Something that basicly gets you a kill just for paying a set amount of money, that allows you to hit anything and any place on the map while you are invulnurable and that is pretty much unavoidable without luck is something that would be a problem in any game.

Its bullsh*t by design. The ability to make it more bullsh*t by the use of glitched money or leaving the lobby and rejoining is just the cherry atop the steaming turd.

 

And like I said just because you rarely see it getting used that does not mean its actually rarely getting used.

[J-Scott-D 3,450]

Not sure if suggested yet, but how about offer an anti-OC signal descrambler for sale in local Ammunition instead?  R* would put an insane price on it, but who cares? GTA$ isn't that hard to make these days. Render the OC pointless over time, just like how R* has rendered so many vehicles pointless after introducing the MKII.

[Big Molio 9,185]

12 minutes ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

The fact that it is abuseable with glitches is just one part. Granted many things are but not to the degree that the orbital canon can be abused to.

And something that can be abused to that degree should not be in the game. Especially not if it is already a problem without these glitches.

Something that basicly gets you a kill just for paying a set amount of money, that allows you to hit anything and any place on the map while you are invulnurable and that is pretty much unavoidable without luck is something that would be a problem in any game.

Its bullsh*t by design. The ability to make it more bullsh*t by the use of glitched money or leaving the lobby and rejoining is just the cherry atop the steaming turd.

 

And like I said just because you rarely see it getting used that does not mean its actually rarely getting used.

Well I'm sorry, I can't agree that the principle of the Orbital Cannon is bad simply because the mechanics and in-built requirements that restrict its use can be circumvented by methods of  cheating.That is a poor argument for removing it, because cheaters ruin everything. Remove the ability to abuse it with cheats I say.

 

I don't believe the principle of the Orbital Cannon is bullsh*t by design. It is a one-shot kill, which costs a fortune thus limiting its use, can't be used repeatedly if playing legitimately, and carries with it already a kind of social stigma. That isn't bullsh*t by design in my book. I think it fits perfectly into the tone of the game if I'm honest. 

 

Also, I play enough in free roam sessions to gauge what is generally happening and what the trends are. I'm telling you that I could play GTA Online every night for a week, and never see it used once.

[Black-Dragon96 7,482]

3 hours ago, Big Molio said:

Well I'm sorry, I can't agree that the principle of the Orbital Cannon is bad simply because the mechanics and in-built requirements that restrict its use can be circumvented by methods of  cheating.That is a poor argument for removing it, because cheaters ruin everything. Remove the ability to abuse it with cheats I say.

 

I don't believe the principle of the Orbital Cannon is bullsh*t by design. It is a one-shot kill, which costs a fortune thus limiting its use, can't be used repeatedly if playing legitimately, and carries with it already a kind of social stigma. That isn't bullsh*t by design in my book. I think it fits perfectly into the tone of the game if I'm honest. 

 

Also, I play enough in free roam sessions to gauge what is generally happening and what the trends are. I'm telling you that I could play GTA Online every night for a week, and never see it used once.

 

Like I said, the thing that it can be abused with cheats on top of the turd.

It makes it a lot easier for the people who glitch to become a problem.

A guy with an insurgent bought from modded cash is not more of a problem/threat than a guy who bought an insurgent with legit money. Same goes for practically anything but the canon.

A guy with a ton of modded cash and a canon is more of a threat than a guy with legit cash and a canon.

But again this is just the cherry on top of the turd.

 

The main problem is that it is pointless to an absurd degree. There is no practical use to it and there is no change that would make it a practical thing. No matter what you do to it, it would still be a tool for people who want to get a kill but do not have the balls to put the squishy, human sized target they call their character on the street and get that kill with a rifle in their hands.

 

The mk2 could be changed in a way that would turn it from a griefer toy to a grinders best friend by removing the weapons and giving it unlimited countermeasures. It would be extremly complicated to abuse and perfectly balanced.

Reducing or removing the splashdamage of the explo rounds of the heavy sniper while also removing the explosion on soft targets (humans) would somewhat balance them (I would still hate them but I could somewhat live with them. Just like I can live with the marksman rifle dancing f*cktards.). They could no longer be used to get easy kills in ground PvP while staying effective against vehicles.

The rpg could be changed in a way that it would no longer detonate when shot at your feet or any distance shorter than 10 meters. It would still be a usefull tool to get people out of cover or to get rid of attacking vehicles but RPG suicide would no longer be a thing.

But there sadly is no change that could bring balance to the orbital canon. It would always stay that pay-to win insta kill button that it was designed to be.

That means that the only logical decision would be to get rid of it. Loosing it would not have a single negative effect on the game but make the game more enjoyable.

 

You cant be everywhere. A fitting quote for this would be a quote by Trevor Noah on global warming:

"Just because its snowing where you are, that does not mean the world isnt getting hotter."

[Big Molio 9,185]

36 minutes ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

But there sadly is no change that could bring balance to the orbital canon. It would always stay that pay-to win insta kill button that it was designed to be.

That means that the only logical decision would be to get rid of it. Loosing it would not have a single negative effect on the game but make the game more enjoyable.

But my argument is that its balance is inherent in its cost per shot, and restricted rate of use. Of course it is an "insta-kill" button, but that comes at a ridiculously high cost.

 

36 minutes ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

 

You cant be everywhere. A fitting quote for this would be a quote by Trevor Noah on global warming:

"Just because its snowing where you are, that does not mean the world isnt getting hotter."

I can only give you my experience of it mate, it just isn't that much of a problem on XBOX One, for the reasons I have stated. Therefore its infrequent appearance makes me say that the logical thing is to keep it, because it doesn't make the game any less enjoyable. In fact, if I force a player to run to his facility and spend $750,000 to get revenge on me, then it's been a good night on GTA Online for me as far as I'm concerned.

 

Every single one of the players who has got me with the Orbital Cannon will insist that they didn't pay for it. Every. single. one. And that is because there is also a kind of inherent shame in having to resort to it. A player has more or less admitted defeat. What they tend to do is hit you with it, then leave as a kind of tearful "f*ck you, bastard!" 

[paperbagdude 4,235]

Lol, I have never seen it being used before and I have been playing frequently for the past 4 months.

 

I mean, is it really that big of a problem as some people like to describe it as? Someone spends +500k on a shot, you die. Seems more like a loss to them than you.

[Black-Dragon96 7,482]

15 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

But my argument is that its balance is inherent in its cost per shot, and restricted rate of use. Of course it is an "insta-kill" button, but that comes at a ridiculously high cost.

 

I can only give you my experience of it mate, it just isn't that much of a problem on XBOX One, for the reasons I have stated. Therefore its infrequent appearance makes me say that the logical thing is to keep it, because it doesn't make the game any less enjoyable. In fact, if I force a player to run to his facility and spend $750,000 to get revenge on me, then it's been a good night on GTA Online for me as far as I'm concerned.

 

Every single one of the players who has got me with the Orbital Cannon will insist that they didn't pay for it. Every. single. one. And that is because there is also a kind of inherent shame in having to resort to it. A player has more or less admitted defeat. What they tend to do is hit you with it, then leave as a kind of tearful "f*ck you, bastard!" 

 

Cost and cooldown are no means of balance.

1. Because they are avoidable.

2. Because no amount of money (legit or not) and no waiting period should give you the right to get a nearly 100% sure kill on someone who is unable to reach you.

 

And it does make the game the game less enjoyable. You can pretty much get nuked any time. Even by people you had no prior contact with.

If you are doing a sale you will always loose. You either loose some product by leaving the lobby or all of it by getting nuked.

Its a constant threat.

 

I enjoy it as much as you when someone I fight runs of to his facility to nuke me, because like you said they are basicly admitting defeat and have to resort to the most broken thing thsi game has to offer, but this does not make me forget what a pointless and sh*tty addition it is and what harm it causes to other people.

The canon has power that no player should have. The only thing it is comparable to, is the insta death button in the cheat menu of a scriptkiddo.

[Big Molio 9,185]

1 hour ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

 

Cost and cooldown are no means of balance.

1. Because they are avoidable.

2. Because no amount of money (legit or not) and no waiting period should give you the right to get a nearly 100% sure kill on someone who is unable to reach you.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

I don’t agree with point 1. as an argument, because the ability to circumvent a game feature’s in-built restrictions by glitches and cheats does not make a game feature bad in principle. It is the glitches and cheats that require addressing.

 

I don’t agree with point 2. because the Orbital Cannon can be defended against by getting below ground or under cover most of the time, and in my experience it poses no greater menace than various other features and methods of attack within the game. 

 

 

[AutobotJazz1 5,306]

I give up. This'll never be fixed

[Sootyjared 84]

I don’t think I have ever seen it be used. At all.

[Arrows to Athens 17,486]

Apparently, they fixed the unlimited OC method, but I'm not entirely sure if it's true or not. My question is, why didn't they just remove it? I highly doubt it benefits Sharkstar financially anyway. 

 

 

[XOIIIIIXIIIIIXO 372]

The unlimited OC method was infact patched, I had a few friends who did it all the time and they say it's no longer possible, I never did it before but I believe them

[Standard Deluxe 59 9,952]

8 hours ago, Arrows to Athens said:

Apparently, they fixed the unlimited OC method, but I'm not entirely sure if it's true or not. My question is, why didn't they just remove it? I highly doubt it benefits Sharkstar financially anyway. 

 

 

I'd bet it is somehow related with them fixing the unlimited BS wheel spin glitch where it saves almost instantly once it stops spinning. 

[Gunbladelad 32]

Whether or not they've balanced it, the simplest solution to prevent glitchers from changing session to avoid being charged is for the game to charge the person before the Orbital Cannon even fires.  Essentially the game can deduct the funds and - if the payment is successful - then fire the Orbital Cannon.

They could even add a 10-second count-down to it after the funds have been deducted to counteract lag-switchers.

[NULL AND VOID 275]

Orbital Cannon is righteous! Cheating is not. With the initial investment and shots fired I've spent maybe 6 million dollars.. When you scope out a location.. Or kill a few guys midway through a Stand Your Ground for just 500k its pretty darn cool. There has been a few instances where I kinda got ripped off and my shots didnt kill the targets but I still enjoy the thing. 

 

The smile I get when someone texts me Oooo 750k for a kill?? Trash.. Is especially funny when it was the 500k shot... 90% of the time I can make this money back within the next hour ANYWAY... I like it.. 

[BumpyJohnson 2,400]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 11:23 PM, Big Molio said:

You have said a lot here @Black-Dragon96 but at the same time have not advanced any real argument, because your premise seems to rely on the fact that it is abused via players actually cheating, which can be a problem with anything. It appears to me that the Orbital Cannon’s abuse by cheats is your apparent issue, rather than the feature per se.

 

And at the same time your (price makes it balanced) argument only makes sense if everyone is using the canon "legitimate" but we no that's not the case.  Majority of the time I seen the canon used the person always leaves so they don't pay AND can join right back and use it again.  This pretty much kills your argument about the price making it fair unless you truly believe most ppl who use the canon pay for it.  Regardless,  if you rarely seen it used you cant truly argue about its balance.

[Big Molio 9,185]

12 minutes ago, BumpyJohnson said:

And at the same time your (price makes it balanced) argument only makes sense if everyone is using the canon "legitimate" but we no that's not the case.  Majority of the time I seen the canon used the person always leaves so they don't pay AND can join right back and use it again.  This pretty much kills your argument about the price making it fair unless you truly believe most ppl who use the canon pay for it.  Regardless,  if you rarely seen it used you cant truly argue about its balance.

With respect Bumpy, all you are offering here is to repeat Black Dragon’s complaint, and that is to point out that the feature is abused by glitchers / cheaters who are exploiting a way of using it illegitimately outside of the prescribed cool down. My argument is sound, because I am basing it on it being used within the game’s inherent constraints. Any glitch or cheat or exploit used to gain an advantage is unfair, but that doesn’t mean the principle of a feature is by itself unbalanced.