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BUT THE BENZ

The BENZLESS factor

Recommended Posts

BUT THE BENZ
Posted (edited)

Okay, continuing to try to understand what it means for RDR2, to not have the BENZ around to fight the darkness, which lingers at every corner in development hell, I thought a thread dedicated to the BENZ was in order. kind of like what BLOOD did, following his passion for T2 (also inspired by many deleted posts)

 

I will give more points of perspective in the future, right now time is little so I just leave you with this image, until then!

 

zUemWL5.jpg

Edited by BUT THE BENZ

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TheExclusiveMan

It will be interesting to see how the game will turn out, this will the first big game of the HD era of games without him, I strongly believe that he was the main reason why we adore and cherish the games from Rockstars past. Its up to the houser bros and Imran Sarwar(?) to catch lightning in a bottle.

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Jestic

Noclue, just curious, if RDR2 turns out to be a really good game, will you be man enough to admit it? And give the Housers credit? Or will you just shrug your shoulders and say it's due to Leslie's involvement prior to taking his sabbatical (his name will probably be absent of the credits anyway. so we won't even know..)

 

Also, what are your thoughts on Leslie not getting his $150 million in royalties?

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GTAFanClub

Honestly I don't think it will matter. It could even be better without him. Who knows.

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1898

Wasn't he also the exec for MP3 which was delayed for 3 years? So maybe it's business as usual with him or without him.

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Spider-Vice

GTA Online exists because of him. Let that sink in as well.

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O.Z
Posted (edited)

Enough with the Benz, it's getting boring and irrelevant now

Edited by O.Z

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phenetole
Posted (edited)

I don't know where this idea that Leslie is the main reason for Rockstar's success came from, because clearly rockstar themselves don't make an effort to put a face to their games. Yes he helped a lot in their development cycles but Dan and his writing staff are the ones that made us love their stories and characters. And the art director, Aaron Garbut, and his team for bringing those worlds to life. Dan even said during his BAFTA speech when he and the other 3 (sam, leslie and Aaron) won the fellowship award, that this is the first time the award was given to 900 people. And also why i think we don't see them openly promote their games.

Its sad that leslie left and its hard to say the exact specific details on that whole ordeal, but i am confident rockstar have more than enough talent left over to make more great games in the future.

Edited by phenetole

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BUT THE BENZ

Noclue, just curious, if RDR2 turns out to be a really good game, will you be man enough to admit it? And give the Housers credit? Or will you just shrug your shoulders and say it's due to Leslie's involvement prior to taking his sabbatical (his name will probably be absent of the credits anyway. so we won't even know..)

 

Also, what are your thoughts on Leslie not getting his $150 million in royalties?

I said more than once, that I REALLY hope to see R* games "survive" this, and that the benz' spirit would live on, that innovation will not fall flat!

I will give credit to imran and the gang if the game turns out to be good, but then again, the benz did indeed leave behind pieces for them to pick up, the benz' way of things, it is rooted deeply at R* games.

I was told the benz had no involvement at all in RDR2, I'm not sure about it really, we'll see though. Them credits eh, he will certainly not have the last spot on directing RD online.

 

He did not get his money? is this final? linkage maybe?

wouldn't be the first time that the bad guys get away with it...

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BUT THE BENZ
Posted (edited)

I don't need to convince you guys, this is not my "agenda"

 

raising awareness maybe? I find it highly questionable, to see so many people who obviously LOVE games out of the R* stable, to just shrugg it off like "eh, could be better without him"...

to even speak BAD of him and everything he's done, it is a very disrespectful tone 'round here if you ask me! given this place, I thought so many more people would understand what I try to say, since it is rooted in very common sense.

 

without him, none of you would still be here.

"don't forget your dying king"

Edited by BUT THE BENZ

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Spider-Vice

Now, now, no need to double post with the Benz excitement. ;)

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gonnaenodaethat
Posted (edited)

I once got chucked out of his church in Stockbridge by the Janny for shouting out Kifflom!

Edited by gonnaenodaethat

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Emmi

Honestly I don't think it will matter. It could even be better without him. Who knows.

Yes, I honestly believe the games will be better without him on board.

 

GTA Online exists because of him. Let that sink in as well.

Yes, that's what most people seem to forget ... Sam and Dan Houser had little interest in this big online idea from him at all ... therefore I think without the Benz, Grand Theft Auto V would be a better game.

 

Every person is replacable ... I don't think future R* games will suffer from this depature.

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BUT THE BENZ

I hope you're right, I just don't think you actually are...

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Jason

My view on the subject is that they wouldn't be the first company to carry on producing quality products after an influential figure left. There's still a lot of talent and veterans of the GTA games still left at the company - despite all the drama about a lot of North vets jumping ship.

 

Even then, people leaving are an opportunity for others to step up and make their mark. I'm not against some fresh ideas coming into the GTA series and other Rockstar games.

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Emmi

One of the most recent example of a prominent departure is Amy Hennig at Naughty Dog.

Uncharted 4 is my favorite Uncharted game of all time, maybe because most work done on it from Hennig has been either scrapped or completely re-invented.

I remember when the news hit the web, everyone was like ... Uncharted 4 will be the worst of the series; worst game ever; can't be good without her; and so on ...

 

My point is that there will always be key-people/developers associated to certain game franchises and even companies as a whole ... but I think as long as Sam and Dan Houser run Rockstar Games, we should not worry too much about their future games. It'll be especially interesting to see where they take the Bully franchise next, a personal favorite of Dan Houser as I understand it. There's so much you could do with Bully II, the possibilities and directions they can head into with this one are really endless.

 

Red Dead Redemption 2 might still have some influence from the Benz, so we can't judge just yet what his departure alongside other 'key' North developers really meant ... but well, in my opinion, Bully II - supposedly their next game - will show us that his departure was for the better.

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YES IT'S ME ARTHUR
Posted (edited)

Ladies and gentlemen i finish this thread with....

 

 

f*ck the benz rdr2 will be better without

him

Edited by YES IT'S ME ARTHUR

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BUT THE BENZ
Posted (edited)

very great comment arthur!

btw this thread is far from over and will be a STICKY once the game released, in mid 2019!

 

this reply is also aimed at the lot of you saying "it might be even better without him" and all that "there are other talents" talk, it's like you don't read me when I say this: I don't question other people's work over there, JUST SAYING the benz was UNIQUE at what he did, as he merged and combined all the work! he got it all under one hood, he gathered all the ingredients and stirred them well, what came out was the innovation that changed the gaming world forver. the way things run since GTA 3. the flow of it all, that was him at the center of it, alongside other key figures of course. but yeah, how do you think all those minigames these days within the huge open world act so seemingly together. how is it all so well grounded and fluent in action? it is true I have no flipping idea on ho´w game development works...but you get my drift: the benz was the one who made that happen, he created that.

 

"We can all make a car drive down a street in a game, but can you do it in style? Everyone's got characters that are walking around but can they walk?”

 

you downplay the importance of this man

Edited by BUT THE BENZ

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1898

Where's he working now?

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BUT THE BENZ

everywhere?!

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YES IT'S ME ARTHUR
Posted (edited)

I thought this thread is dead

Edited by YES IT'S ME ARTHUR

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Gray-Hand

I would really like someone to explain in specific terms what exactly The Benz did that was so great that only he could do.

 

What aspects of the production did The Benz personally undertake that made a specific part of the game better than if someone else had done that game.

 

I want someone to be able to say this non rockstar game did this thing this way, and got this result, which wasnt so great. But The Benz made this decision to do this similar thing in a different way (and either implemented it himself or gave specific instructions on how to do it) that produced this really great result.

 

Or alternatively, specific examples of things that The Benz changed that clearly would have been improvements over what Rockstar otherwise had planned. Preferably verified by someone who isnt The Benz.

 

Otherwise, the only example information Ive read about The Benz genius is excerpts from his own affidavit, which is hardly an objective source.

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Safari

Theres many more masterminds behind R* benz being gone wont really make a difference.

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Iroquois
Posted (edited)

If i am not mistaken, RDR2 is being made by the joint force of all the sub-companies of R* (R* North, etc...) and not just by one. In other words, not only by the ppl that gave us GTA V. So....its a collective group effort.

 

Besides, don't worry....I mean...what are they gonna do to try to sneak in Cactus Cards?? I don't think we will need money for chroming our horses.....that would be ridiculous

Edited by Iroquois

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greenrock

we need to get away from the idea that 1 guy is responsible for rockstar's game

 

 

yes Leslie was a great manager and definitely helped with finishing Red Dead, but that doesn't mean he is the mastermind behind all teh games

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Emmi

^ yeah, this exactly!

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uNi

RDR and GTA might turn out better without him, who knows what type of influence he had on past titles.

 

For RDRII I don't think we will be able to tell that much of a difference, only in a next GTA.

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damienrayemusic
Posted (edited)

^ Yeah, this exactly x3!!! Its blasphemous to think that ONE person dictates how good all rockstar games are/will be. Nothing stays the same, everything changes. I am glad he is on his own ventures now and I encourage someone new leading R* to new ideas. People complain so much about R* being "so outdated" and always the same regardless of quality. Maybe the benz was a big part of using "old ideas and assets" who knows. Really should welcome change and innovation. Leslie is a great guy/talent but he is not and never was the end all be all of rockstar games!!

Edited by damienrayemusic

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PvTails

One of the most recent example of a prominent departure is Amy Hennig at Naughty Dog.

Uncharted 4 is my favorite Uncharted game of all time, maybe because most work done on it from Hennig has been either scrapped or completely re-invented.

I remember when the news hit the web, everyone was like ... Uncharted 4 will be the worst of the series; worst game ever; can't be good without her; and so on ...

 

My point is that there will always be key-people/developers associated to certain game franchises and even companies as a whole ... but I think as long as Sam and Dan Houser run Rockstar Games, we should not worry too much about their future games. It'll be especially interesting to see where they take the Bully franchise next, a personal favorite of Dan Houser as I understand it. There's so much you could do with Bully II, the possibilities and directions they can head into with this one are really endless.

 

Red Dead Redemption 2 might still have some influence from the Benz, so we can't judge just yet what his departure alongside other 'key' North developers really meant ... but well, in my opinion, Bully II - supposedly their next game - will show us that his departure was for the better.

This is a very good example but with the roles reversed. Just imagine sam or dan retiring and having someone new writing the stories.

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Gray-Hand

I can easily imagine how GTA6 would be different to GTA3-5 if the Howsers stepped away from the writing and were replaced by, say Hideo Kojima or Rhianna Pratchett. Its easy because I am familiar with their style and I know what they do differently to other writers.

 

I have absolutely no idea how RDR2 will be different to RDR1 with The Benz gone. Thats because I have no idea, and no one seems to know, what The Benz did differently to anyone else who has a similar job, and how that affects the final product.

 

Seriously - there has to be some The Benz acolyte out there who can explain what The Benz does differently and what effect it has on the final product.

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