Why isn't "cartel-sessions" more of a thing?

[Dr.Rosenthal]

Hey all,

 

Since a while back I've teamed up with some online friends, and we always try and get solo public sessions. If I end up solo in a public session, they can join me and together we can do CEO free mode work - they have their Organizations active and I've got mine, and when it's time to sell bunker supplies we ask each other for help which is never a problem since everybody's helping each other in return.

 

Sometimes we grind our asses off and hardly say "Hi" to each other, and other times we do more stuff together. But the golden rule, of course, is, don't attack each other and don't interfere with someone else's business unless they want you to. I've also met new friends in the occasional public session, and if they've deemed worthy I've told them to join our cartel-session. My online friends also have their respective friends who sometimes join, and we let each other know if there's a new face to avoid unnecessary bloodshed. Anyone we don't know is either preferably kicked if possible, or we team up against them.

 

In my opinion, this is the best way to play the game on a daily basis. When I want more chaos I join a full/semi-full public session.

 

But I wonder; why has it taken me 5 years to come to this? Even back when I was in a pretty good and active crew, these types of sessions were hard to come by, as there were always a majority of randoms to f*ck sh*t up.

 

It's such an easy formula really; have some friends who all want to grind or at least have peaceful sessions (judging by the posts here on GTAF, there are a lot of people who are sick with PvP bullsh*t), get online, session hop til someone ends up alone or in a session with just a few other players -> let the others join -> be in majority. Rule session, work freely, enjoy your stay.

 

I'm online every night and I know my friends are too, which makes it easier of course. But still. Such an easy fix to one of the biggest problems of GTAO. And it's all along the rules of the game, so we're not doing anything wrong either. Making millions every day just helping each other. It's awesome.

 

Why don't more people play like this? I understand there are crews out there that play like this. Are they any good/reliable/active? But on the other hand, it seems to "grow" organically, as in now friends I've added are adding friends in their turn, so sometimes we're around 15-20 players in session, everybody having some connection with someone else in session.

 

And, another question; how can we make it so that more people discover that the game can be played this way?

Edited April 7, 2018 by Dr.Rosenthal

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

As a member of a "friendly" crew myself, I think the answer is simple, the playerbase is way too fragmented, disorganized and overall toxic for such kind of sessions to come out organically.

 

How many stories had been shared here in which there was sessions of players doing their own thing and helping each other until someone arrives to said session, calls and Hydra and all hell breaks loose?

 

You'll think that after 5 years most experienced players would wise up and start to respect the hustle because the grind is already tiring as it is but nope.

 

Just my $0.02.

[Locce]

Yeah, the idea is not that original. I guess everybody who has issues with the stupid public session nonsense for CEO/MC work has at one point thought about this very solution. The problem is that you have to have a crew or a group of friends where 30 people are active at the same time, and the numbers have to work out in a way that there are enough free organisation slots for all people wanting to earn money while the rest either altruistically help them or do their own thing without leaving the session. That is quite the specific setup you need there, and most crews will lack either the required numbers or the degree of organisation to pull it off regularly. And as soon as there is even one open random slot in the lobby there is (on pc at least) a very realistic chance that somebody joins who has both the intent and the means (i.e. modmenu) to f*** up everybody's day.

[Sanches]

They're all hidden.
The less people know about them, the less chance of griefer to join.

[whywontyoulisten]

I just joined this crew, and it's working really well. Whole lobby full of crew members and no-one else, and there's only been one random (who was swiftly kicked). Some people afking, others helping each other with missions, some doing the freemode challenges etc. If only Rockstar had allowed crew sessions like this.

 

http://gtaforums.com/topic/907002-sell-your-sh-t-crew-controlled-friendly-lobbys-to-sell-product/

[Dr.Rosenthal]

I really don't claim it's an original idea, quite the opposite - which is precisely what begs the question "Why isn't this more common?" or maybe it IS very common and I just haven't seen it. But judging by how some people have "quit playing the game entirely" or started playing in invite only or solo sessions... to me that would completely kill the game. Just as I can't imagine playing the game in passive mode because that would ruin the experience completely.

 

And of course, yes, there's always a chance that someone might enter the session unannounced and starts to ruin sh*t, so you can never be fully relaxed, but that isn't very much of an issue if the rest of the 10 participants in session are my friends or friends of friends. And even though I'm in a session with friends, I always have to keep checking the player list as well as the mini-map.

 

But sure, it can be a problem. A few weeks ago one of my friends sold his large warehouse, me and another friend were flanking him with Buzzards. Suddenly BOOM there enters 10-15 people out of nowhere, so another one of my friends got into his Akula and joined us just in case. We made it that time, but we could've been f*cked as well. However, most players seem less inclined to mess with you if they see that you have several associates and friends in session.

 

So, yeah, it's not completely safe but still, it's preferable to not playing at all or just playing in invite only. Besides, I kind of like that randoms might join every now and then because it spices things up a bit.

 

So in my opinion, you don't need 30 players, you don't need the session to be full, but if you have just a few friends and friends of friends you're still likely to be enough so that you can kick by majority, anybody who enters the session. Granted though, sometimes randoms drop in more frequently and sometimes "in bulk" - so yeah, it's never completely safe.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention I'm on PS4. Not sure I'd ever play GTAO on public sessions on PC because mod-menus etc...

Edited April 7, 2018 by Dr.Rosenthal

[Hécate-II]

Each of the three platforms has its own friendly large crew. They don't advertise much because they considere you have to do a minimum of efforts to join them(search, find, apply- though its not hard in itself).

 

Idk, probably most of GTAO players don't want be in such crew? There are a lot of rules to respect, its not for everyone.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Hécate-II

[Spadge]

Psst. The first rule about cartel sessions, is that you don't talk about cartel sesions.

[Rafae]

They're all hidden.

The less people know about them, the less chance of griefer to join.

This lol

 

Psst. The first rule about cartel sessions, is that you don't talk about cartel sesions.

This too.

 

Keep it on the down low boys.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Rafae

[IamCourtney]

I've dabbled in such arrangements/crews before, but it didn't continue. I've grown too set in my lone wolf ways; I like to be able to hop on and off at will without feeling obligated by quid pro quo. Aside from that, I like supplying and selling in mostly busy lobbies and on the rare occasions I have a load so big I'd rather not risk it, I just change my MTU.

Edited April 7, 2018 by IamCourtney

[Dr.Rosenthal]

Lol, Rafae, tbh that's pretty much my approach too normally... Who started this thread anyway? I didn't. I don't even know what he's on about. There's no such thing as a cartel session, never was. Move along, people.

 

But - if there ever was such a thing as cartel session, I wish more people would know about how to make it work!

Edited April 7, 2018 by Dr.Rosenthal

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

Cartel/friendly crews being pretty unknown to the general playerbase it's a good thing not only for the reasons you guys already mentioned, also because this avoids R* looking into ways to deter our playstyle.

 

Imagine R* doing something stupid like disabling the you know what function altogether or something like that, it would be madne$$.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Voodoo-Hendrix

[Rafae]

The name of my CEO organization has been The Cartel for almost a year

 

 

Just changed my MC name to that recently as well.

[Lupo-Akane]

I just play alone in a solo lobby, I don't have any friends that like gta online so it's just me lol...

[Dr.Rosenthal]

Cartel/friendly crews being pretty unknown to the general playerbase it's a good thing not only for the reasons you guys already mentioned, also because this avoids R* looking into ways to deter our playstyle.

 

Imagine R* doing something stupid like disabling the you know what function altogether or something like that, it would be madne$$.

 

True. On a side note, it's really interesting that workarounds is what keeps serious fans with the franchise. If they disabled the you know what function, I wonder how many would move away from the game?

 

I know, at least, that if I always had to play the game as R* intends it to be played, there's a big chance I'd stop playing altogether, especially at this late stage. On a similar note I sometimes think that R* play-tests under ideal circumstances, such as everyone using mic, everyone who's supposed to co-operate is co-operating, crews being a functioning thing etc, which is very much different in all aspects to how most players experience the game.

[flexcreator]

I joined the Cartel crew, but after reading the rules second time noted that the VIP work is prohibited. I quit the crew the same day.

Prohibiting the VIP work is one of the most stupid decisions ever made. They state reasons like "you may accdentally blow the cargo" (like wtf? what are the chances to accidentally blow someones cargo while doing Headhunter? are they serious?) and "it will attract cops and make things harder for other players".

 

VIP work can be superior and MORE profitable than crate runs if done right. In my opinion, they are not too competent in terms of making money if they can't recognize this fact.

 

Stupid rules. That's the first reason for me to avoid such crews.

 

Second reason - It's too boring. You never know what to expect in public sessions, you never know what to expect from a stranger. Even griefers never cease to surprise me. At first, you think that you seen all kinds of lowlives, but slowly you learn that there is no bottom. You never truly know of HOW low people can potentially be. And you never learn that by playing in the Cartel crews.

 

I faced an Akula guy who asked a godmode cheater to hold me while he was destroying my cargo. I also witnessed random hydras who helped players for no particular reason. I met a noob who didn't know how to shoot from a car and tried to simply ram my cargo vehicle.

 

It's an interesting experience. It can make you frustrated, but you'll never be bored.

 

Third reason - I like to grief the griefers and often use my sales as a bait.

Edited April 7, 2018 by flexcreator

[IamCourtney]

Agreed. Working within a lobbyful of randos is the main thing keeping GTAO interesting for me. Gathering intel from the Player list, monitoring the map and killfeed, assessing likely threats, likely tactics, likely countermeasures, plotting alternate routes on the fly when the GPS wants to bring you through a warzone, etc. is a cultivated skill, not an exact science but its very satisfying to be able to 'read the room' with fairly consistent accuracy.

 

Playing in a 99% controlled environment feels so dull in comparison and makes the game a chore before too long. I mean, I appreciate a low threat lobby sometimes when I just wanna zone out and grind a little with only half my attention span required but most of the time I need opposition, or at least the possibility of it, in order to stay engaged and entertained.

[Rafae]

Agreed. Working within a lobbyful of randos is the main thing keeping GTAO interesting for me. Gathering intel from the Player list, monitoring the map and killfeed, assessing likely threats, likely tactics, likely countermeasures, plotting alternate routes on the fly when the GPS wants to bring you through a warzone, etc. is a cultivated skill, not an exact science but its very satisfying to be able to 'read the room' with fairly consistent accuracy.

 

Playing in a 99% controlled environment feels so dull in comparison and makes the game a chore before too long. I mean, I appreciate a low threat lobby sometimes when I just wanna zone out and grind a little with only half my attention span required but most of the time I need opposition, or at least the possibility of it, in order to stay engaged and entertained.

 

You're like one of the few million people that play this game pretty much the way Rockstar intended lmaooo

 

 

Props for that.

[IamCourtney]

Haha yeah. I mean, I get that the motivation for most of R*s design decisions is ultimately cynical and Shark Card oriented, but the result is that the "R* Approved Playstyle" is right up my alley, I genuinely enjoy how challenging and unforgiving it can make things.

 

For me GTAO is the right game for some wrong reasons... but at the same time I totally understand why so many people circumvent the system through everything from solo public tricks to glitching/duping all the up to outright modding.

[R3CON]

Agreed with IamCourtney above. The "anything can happen" vibe of public lobbies keeps GTA fresh and alive now that it's over 4 years old with a stale map. I too wish the idea of Cartel lobbies was more prevalent and common in game and I think the "don't talk about it/keep it a secret" folks just do a disservice to the overall community. We need to spread this playstyle in the hopes that it catches on so cooperation is viewed as a real possibility. Far too many people have become jaded and solitary to the point where they manipulate their game connections or kick people from lobbies, literally anything it takes to force the game to do things it wasn't intended. I know, anything to be able to sell in peace is worth it for many people. But it'd be nice to find a less abusive solution within the framework of the game's existing structure.

 

Cartel lobbies are exactly that. Cooperation amongst gamers, regardless of the the possible threats from other players. A strong crew or show of force can often be a serious and lasting deterrent from others attacking you in freeroam. I've seen it at work many times. Whether as a part of crews, when trying to attack random crews as the enemy or merely witnessing them work together as a bystander in freeroam. It's not too common, but it's not that rare either. All it takes is communication and the necessary show of force, making several examples out of people who step out of line, and you can really set the tone for the lobby. People come and go, peacetime is short lived and it's always a continuous effort to maintain the peace (you'll never get rid of the threat 100%), but it's far more cooperative and exciting this way.

 

Most players have the same interests in mind at least when it comes to making money. Freeroam can be a killing free-for-all, it's expected and wanted and the reason many people play the game. But most of us come together around the idea that earning money is more sacred. This is especially true when you consider the eternal mix of microtransactions, sharkcards, high prices, low-payouts and the concept of player vs player violence as both a hindrance to making easy cash and a drain on money and resources. We all have a vested interest in making money - if literally nothing else - in peace. It wouldn't be too far of a leap for that shared mutual interest and understanding to lead to more cartel lobbies in the future.

 

The only thing stopping this from catching on is simply that enough people don't try it. They don't believe it would work so they don't try to make it work. That's why I think we have to spread this idea and not just keep it to ourselves. Some of us have seen this cooperation first-hand and it goes a long way to pay it forward even if we don't know the person from another random player. But shifting expectations and perspectives of what is possible does make a difference and it's worth trying out on wider-scale.

[delorianlazarus]

I was a big solo lobby addict, it did my wealth over the last years

 

But its so boring and pointless. Why would you earn millions if you dont have anyone to enjoy your stuff with ?

 

So now, Im 100% public lobby.

My stats arent worse, but now I feel my heart working hard to pump blood and adrenaline during critical moments.

 

 

And its amazing

 

 

Cartel lobbies are a different thing. They are fun for a while. And it feels good to be between associates.

but it lacks any kind of challenge. And this unique thrilling moment, when you see someone going off radar around your drop point......

Thats one of the reasons it isnt that much spreaded. Because people try to keep it secret (stupidest idea ever lol), and because it wont make you feel anything ...

 

 

get that blood pumping yo

Edited April 8, 2018 by delorianlazarus

[Lonely-Martin]

Yeah, they really took a lot out of this game with one simple change. Public only. Since, I don't think I've used a crew session. I used to love the game and be so keen to hang out with friends and friends of friends with access to all the game had to offer.

 

Nothing like that since. I lone wolf it all now. It pushed so many good gamer friends away.

 

* I too tried with a crew here since, but I don't like kicking folk, so I just lost interest in all that. I bounce sessions on wifi nd sell at small but often, when I can be bothered. Heists/missions are best for me for cash and co-op gameplay.

 

* Plus, I enjoy running the gauntlet at times too. I liked the choices I once had, peace or chaos. Those choosing chaos, knew what was there. Just I like to plod in peace at times too. I don't enjoy being blown up, but challenged for loot and it stolen from me. That's GTA, IMHO.

 

(Sorry for the edits, read up to date now, lol)

 

Peace out.

Edited April 8, 2018 by KWF1981

[G U M M I]

Anyone we don't know is either preferably kicked if possible, or we team up against them.

This is probably why they aren't "more of a thing." That part right there, is the biggest, dickiest move you can ever pull, acceptable if they're coming after you, but sounds like no one is permitted because you "preferably" kick them.

 

That and lone wolves are still kicking. I hate working with other people other than survivals. If possible, I'd do heists solo, who needs other people when you can manage by yourself?

 

But that's from my 1% view, the antisocial, solo, do it yourself lone wolf. Everybody else...well...f*ck everybody else.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Lucius M. Galloway

[Dr.Rosenthal]

^

 

Well, if there's an "outsider" in our session, we're not actively kicking, exactly. My bad, I should have expressed myself differently.

 

If they keep to themselves, we're pretty fine with having them there. On the other hand, when one random drops into the session there seems to be an increased risk that more randoms will join, and once 3-4 randoms have joined, it's slowly becoming a pain in the ass to keep track on them and make sure that it's safe to sell bunker stock for example. Even more so if you've got a full Large Warehouse to sell, you really don't want there to be room for unexpected unpleasantries there. I think that's the type of scenario I pictured when I wrote "preferably" kicked.

 

Another observation is that in a lot of cases though, that one random will inevitably try and do something stupid, i.e. attack stuff they shouldn't be attacking.

 

But as some of you have said, always playing it safe can be really boring too, I very much agree there. However, when selling full warehouses or full bunker stock, I find it hard to believe that people would rather do this in a full public session because it's more "exciting". Nothing exciting about losing $2.2M to some Deluxo douche ranked 96 who just happened to pass by and saw a red icon close-by. But, I/E for example is in my opinion really fun to do in a crowded session.

[Skeve613]

I used to play with the FPGL folks a while back using crew-only public lobbies, mostly helping other people with their work since I am already pretty well set. Although it lacked the dynamism of trying to do work in an actual public lobby and I ultimately drifted away from it as my GTA time shifted towards other games, it was really nice getting to experience people actually working together and helping each other instead of the only fighting tryhard trash in public sessions.

 

It really made me wish there was a non PvP lobby option in GTA Online, as others have told me is often the case in the several MMO games I haven't played.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Skeve613

[Nerfgoth]

If you dont like to kick people when a cartel session is going just make sure that like ten people or more are in the same crew! Its a big deterrent! Had a lot of players joining and directly leave!

[RANDOMv2]

OP that is the exact way that I try to run my sessions as well.

[Cadtruck]

I am all onboard for a session like this. I never attack other CEOs or MCs while they are working. I rarely attack other players unless there is some kind of big war going on with non CEO players. Then I will jump in for a little while.

 

If any of you are doing these cartel style sessions on PS4 shoot me an invite/message - PSN name Cadtruck.

[SAS_Intruder]

Since my return to GTA couple of weeks ago,game keeps kicking everyone else out and I am only one that is left. Also, it usually puts me in an empty lobby whenever I start the game.

 

At first I was angry and I wanted to fix this, but now, I am not so sure. I can still do heists and missions with others with no issues but I have lobby pretty much for myself.

[Chang]

Move this thread to Find Players & Lobbies and let's get it goings. I'm in!

 

My only weakness is jacking sourced cars from marks & storing them in my garage @ the docks.

 

9 out of 10 marks got that same garage round the corner from the Vagos, not the strawberry one.

 

Just wait for'em to bring it to me then grand theft they candy A$$. Secure it, chill inside as that jacked mark waits outside in a true to form Fluster Rage.

The Best! Then take a pic to remember, like a true serial gta Jacker.

 

I Chang