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Domac

Why didn't CJ kill...

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Domac

Alright, so...

 

In the mission The Green Sabre, CJ finds out that Big Smoke and Ryder betrayed him, and C.R.A.S.H. members leaving the garage. Why didn't CJ leave the car and gun Tenpenny, Pulaski, Smoke and Ryder down then?

If you want to say that he couldn't kill them all alone, he could've asked for Cesar's help to kill them. Aim for their heads and that's it. It wouldn't take more than 5 minutes to kill them...

 

I know the game would have ended early then, but still. He simply could have killed them four with Cesar's help. After he would have killed them, he could've hid the bodies in the garage where the green Sabre was.

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lil weasel
Posted (edited)

Too much Logic, If you take any movie or TV show, if the characters did the logical things then the show would be over before the second commercial (or 10 minutes, whichever comes first). :)

 

Especially in a Video Game, The "Story" is just padding to make the Keyboard or gamepad manipulations mean something more than 1,2,3,4.

 

Have fun PLAYING, try not to dwell on particulars.

Edited by lil weasel

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Domac
Posted (edited)

Too much Logic, If you take any movie or TV show, if the characters did the logical things then the show would be over before the second commercial (or 10 minutes, whichever comes first). :)

 

Especially in a Video Game, The "Story" is just padding to make the Keyboard or gamepad manipulations mean something more than 1,2,3,4.

 

Have fun PLAYING, try not to dwell on particulars.

Hahah, alright thanks for the response. I just figured it might be weird if two/three cops just dissapeared and that would bring CJ mkre trouble.

:)

Edited by Domac

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Jeansowaty

What puzzles me more is how CJ is afraid of two corrupted cops yet doesn't refrain from killing more cops during other missions.

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SanLiberty

Alright, so...

 

In the mission The Green Sabre, CJ finds out that Big Smoke and Ryder betrayed him, and C.R.A.S.H. members leaving the garage. Why didn't CJ leave the car and gun Tenpenny, Pulaski, Smoke and Ryder down then?

If you want to say that he couldn't kill them all alone, he could've asked for Cesar's help to kill them. Aim for their heads and that's it. It wouldn't take more than 5 minutes to kill them...

 

I know the game would have ended early then, but still. He simply could have killed them four with Cesar's help. After he would have killed them, he could've hid the bodies in the garage where the green Sabre was.

Kinda agree with you, but just like my boy lil weasel said, it's just too much logic and also the game would be too short.

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∴

If I can attempt to explain it with logic, don't forget, this revelation was a huge shock. It's a very well-known plot at this point, but for CJ to find out his two closest friends were involved in the death of his mother is a very sudden emotional weight. His thoughts immediately go to Sweet, and he panics. In times of stress, people don't necessarily act the way they would under more rational circumstances.

 

It's like thinking of the perfect retort in the shower when a conversation was hours ago. In moments of clarity it's easy for us to question motives but CJ was delivered one of the biggest bombshells of his life. There's creative liberty to be had for sure, but I wouldn't call it an out of character action. You could say the same about many other moments in the game, like why did he not just pop Tenpenny and Pulaski in the head when they were walking away from him?

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Domac
Posted (edited)

Wait a second though...

 

So, when Grove Street was at its top before Sweet got into a trap, and CJ found out that Smoke and Ryder betrayed him, why didn't CJ, with the help of Grove Street, prepare an ambush and pop Tenpenny and Pulaski then, instead of starting a gang war in Mulholland.

The game still could've went on as he would try to track down Smoke and Ryder trough the three cities (ex. Ryder would be hiding in San Fierro, doing drugs and shiz, while Big Smoke would focus on money in Las Venturas by gambling, opening a casino and stuff). :p

 

Anyhow, I am still glad that the game is the way it is, it has got my favourite storyline. Doing it all again, currently at mission 'Mike Toreno'.

Edited by Domac

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Am Shaegar

Killing Tenpenny is very difficult. The cops will go after him and destroy the entire hood instead.

 

Regarding Smoke and Ryder. I believe CJ wouldn't want them to die an easy death. Sometimes it's best to wait and watch your enemies to understand their motives further. The actions of CJ later show him systematically destroying their reach and influence from within who are pushing drugs and interested in taking over the hood. Had CJ killed them, we might never know about others who were involved in this plan.

 

Keeping them alive for some more time resulted in the deaths of many other bastards.

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greggrulzok

Not trying to chance the subject but CJ gets completely shocked when he finds about Smoke, but not a single word about ryder, why?

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M0rk
Posted (edited)

because ryder wasnt supposed to be an antagonist but there were some schedule problems with mc eiht or some sh*t so r* decided to make ryder a bad boy and made you kill him

Edited by M0rk

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Domac

Killing Tenpenny is very difficult. The cops will go after him and destroy the entire hood instead.

 

Regarding Smoke and Ryder. I believe CJ wouldn't want them to die an easy death. Sometimes it's best to wait and watch your enemies to understand their motives further. The actions of CJ later show him systematically destroying their reach and influence from within who are pushing drugs and interested in taking over the hood. Had CJ killed them, we might never know about others who were involved in this plan.

 

Keeping them alive for some more time resulted in the deaths of many other bastards.

I get what you're thinking, similar how in Mafia III Lincoln Clay kills all of Sal Marcano's relatives and his important connections to get revenge.

 

Besides, Tenpenny "killed himself in a traffic accident". ;)

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Evil empire
Posted (edited)

Carl Johnson didn't immediately kill Ryder and Big Smoke when he learned they're traitors because it's not in the scenario.

Edited by Evil empire

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∴

I don't doubt that if CJ knew how difficult it would wind up being to track them down, he would have done something there and then. For all we know, he had plans to tell Sweet and rain fire on the pair of them before he wound up being kicked out of the city and forced to run errands like a lobotomised police butler.

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TheOriginalGunslinger
Posted (edited)

As someone who played GTA: San Andreas a lot (and I mean a lot!) the story was whacky too me. CJ goes from not representing the Grove for 5 years to getting back and turned into a breaking into a miltary base and robbing a casino in a planned heist type gangster. Still aside from all that it remains in my top 5 video games of all-time though regardless.

Edited by TheOriginalGunslinger

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Domac
Posted (edited)

As someone who played GTA: San Andreas a lot (and I mean a lot!) the story was whacky too me. CJ goes from not representing the Grove for 5 years to getting back and turned into a breaking into a miltary base and robbing a casino in a planned heist type gangster. Still aside from all that it remains in my top 5 video games of all-time though regardless.

CJ even said he always wanted to pull off a big heist.

 

Besides, I don't like how the cutscenes are not connected to the freemode at all (e.g. CJ would kill a thousand cops with a minigun, no problem while in free mode, but in cutscenes and missions he is a totally another person).

 

I am happy the way the story turned out. If CJ killed Tenpenny, Pulaski, Smoke and Ryder when he saw them, he probably wouldn't become so successful (one of the richest men in San Andreas).

 

By the way, how did he become such good friends with Woozie from a simple race? (like they were childhood friends)

Edited by Domac

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Reameb

It would end the game very quicky lol also gta sa has no logic, or if any at all,

 

For example, in the same mission, when you go to try and rescue sweet, CJ kils tons of ballas, but he surrenders to only 3 cops just few second after thar, so yeah, gta sa has barely any logic lol.

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latigreblue

Maybe you guys don't remember but it was a trap from the beginning. Killing Tenpenny at that point would not have stopped the plan that was underway. After CJ realised this, he had limited time to get to the Mulholland Overpass before Sweet died. So he did not have the time to get into a gun fight even with Cesar's help. Considering how hard all four were to kill in their final missions, he really would not have had the time. Based on the 4 After the gun battle with the Ballas, Sweet is injured so I don't think CJ was willing to try to run with an injured man when he's covered by police.

 

The game is not illogical as you guys are making it out to be.

 

@Mork, you are mixing up two very different issues. I agree that there seems to be something wrong with Ryder's dialogue in the Pier 69 mission. It sounds like recycled dialogue and Ryder should have been able to give an explanation for the betrayal of his friends. But saying that he should not have an antagonist makes no sense. There were too many pointers suggesting that Smoke and Ryder were mixed up with Tenpenny from the beginning.

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Domac

Maybe you guys don't remember but it was a trap from the beginning. Killing Tenpenny at that point would not have stopped the plan that was underway. After CJ realised this, he had limited time to get to the Mulholland Overpass before Sweet died. So he did not have the time to get into a gun fight even with Cesar's help. Considering how hard all four were to kill in their final missions, he really would not have had the time. Based on the 4 After the gun battle with the Ballas, Sweet is injured so I don't think CJ was willing to try to run with an injured man when he's covered by police.

 

The game is not illogical as you guys are making it out to be.

 

@Mork, you are mixing up two very different issues. I agree that there seems to be something wrong with Ryder's dialogue in the Pier 69 mission. It sounds like recycled dialogue and Ryder should have been able to give an explanation for the betrayal of his friends. But saying that he should not have an antagonist makes no sense. There were too many pointers suggesting that Smoke and Ryder were mixed up with Tenpenny from the beginning.

Ryder wasn't hard to kill at all. Pulaski wasn't either.

Big Smoke was hard to kill because he was wearing armor in "End of the line", but not in "The Green Sabre" cutscene. Tenpenny? Who knows? Afterall, he died after he fell off a bridge in a fire truck.

 

CJ didn't try to kill the 3 cops because he would be in much more trouble than he was in already, and plus his brother Sweet was laying on the ground, injured and bleeding, so he would probably die. If CJ surrendered to the Ballas, they would have killed him. But CJ made a smart move, surrendering to the police which requested medical assistance for Sweet.

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HolyGrenadeFrenzy

Everyone here seems to forget about the planted evidence and the plans to release it and incriminate CJ if he didn't comply, before TenPenny is incriminated on other crimes, which instills the blue line issues.

 

He was trapped and uncertain of how trapped he was or where or with whom the evidence, false or real, was placed. It's an impossible complication until things slant his direction. There is a lot of using logical fallacy to manipulate people yet as you play and physically mature CJ he goes from looking younger to more seasoned and older for the decorum of the game to lend mood as well.

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latigreblue

 

Ryder wasn't hard to kill at all. Pulaski wasn't either.

Big Smoke was hard to kill because he was wearing armor in "End of the line", but not in "The Green Sabre" cutscene. Tenpenny? Who knows? Afterall, he died after he fell off a bridge in a fire truck.

 

CJ didn't try to kill the 3 cops because he would be in much more trouble than he was in already, and plus his brother Sweet was laying on the ground, injured and bleeding, so he would probably die. If CJ surrendered to the Ballas, they would have killed him. But CJ made a smart move, surrendering to the police which requested medical assistance for Sweet.

 

Well, for you Ryder and Pulaski were not difficult to kill and that's good. But really the time that it takes to kill them is the point that I was making. At that time if you are playing normally, CJ is not as powerful as he would become by the time he starts taking them out. It would have taken time that he knew Sweet did not have. Also, he had no intention of surrendering to the Ballas - he shouts that them that he was going to take them out.

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Domac

 

Ryder wasn't hard to kill at all. Pulaski wasn't either.

Big Smoke was hard to kill because he was wearing armor in "End of the line", but not in "The Green Sabre" cutscene. Tenpenny? Who knows? Afterall, he died after he fell off a bridge in a fire truck.

 

CJ didn't try to kill the 3 cops because he would be in much more trouble than he was in already, and plus his brother Sweet was laying on the ground, injured and bleeding, so he would probably die. If CJ surrendered to the Ballas, they would have killed him. But CJ made a smart move, surrendering to the police which requested medical assistance for Sweet.

 

Well, for you Ryder and Pulaski were not difficult to kill and that's good. But really the time that it takes to kill them is the point that I was making. At that time if you are playing normally, CJ is not as powerful as he would become by the time he starts taking them out. It would have taken time that he knew Sweet did not have. Also, he had no intention of surrendering to the Ballas - he shouts that them that he was going to take them out.Pulaski took a few shotgun hits to kill and Ryder took one to two sniper bullets.

CJ wasn't as powerful as he was later, but weapons were equally powerful ;)

I know he didn't want to surrender to the Ballas.

The only problem is Sweet, because he was shot.

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CHARMANDER50

The story mode was End of the Line for Tenpenny & BigSmoke, Pier 69 for Ryder, High noon for Pulaski.

Unlike the freemode for GTA online , CJ has to follow the story in order to

complete the mission to kill this antagonists.

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Domac

The story mode was End of the Line for Tenpenny & BigSmoke, Pier 69 for Ryder, High noon for Pulaski.

Unlike the freemode for GTA online , CJ has to follow the story in order to

complete the mission to kill this antagonists.

He followed the story in order to find out where they were in the first place, and on his path to find them he became richer than God. :p

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Lioshenka

If I can attempt to explain it with logic, don't forget, this revelation was a huge shock. It's a very well-known plot at this point, but for CJ to find out his two closest friends were involved in the death of his mother is a very sudden emotional weight. His thoughts immediately go to Sweet, and he panics. In times of stress, people don't necessarily act the way they would under more rational circumstances.

 

If I can attempt to explain it with logic, don't forget, this revelation was a huge shock. It's a very well-known plot at this point, but for CJ to find out his two closest friends were involved in the death of his mother is a very sudden emotional weight. His thoughts immediately go to Sweet, and he panics. In times of stress, people don't necessarily act the way they would under more rational circumstances.

 

That's pretty much what I was going to say. CJ was either too shocked, or missed his chance to approach safely, or didn't want to risk.

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DetectivePhelps

CJs instinct was to save his brother before it was too late. He got shot, could have been worse.

2-He couldnt do anything because Tenpenny & company had leverage over him...Sweet. So he had to play along like sure, ok, no problem until the right time came along, that right time was Mike Torino. After all that & Venturas..Things were good but stuff needed to be dealt with before going after Big BackstabberSmoke! He had a fortress Ill tell ya. Well, Im gone now to play San Andreas 🎧

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thalilmythos

He didn't killed them because it was in is character to be naive, he didn't believe at the moment that they were responsible for the dead of his mother, all he knew is that they were getting the green sabre out of the garage, Tenpenny could have been making ryder and smoke do their dirty work, anyway, in summary.

He was naive and was unsure about what he was seeing.

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hlennarz

Here's my take on Ryder:

 

Ryder was always meant to become an antagonist. However he wasn't going to show up in "The Green Sabre", that's why CJ doesn't mention him once till the mission "Photo Opportunity". Ryder was going to be revealed an antagonist in "Photo Opportunity".

 

Just replace Ryder in the Cutscene of Green Sabre with... I don't know pulaski or a random cop and it all makes sense again. Carl says "WHAT THE F**?" when he sees a cop opening the gate for the green sabre after the ballas leave.

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watersgta3

Ryder wasn't meant to be an antagonist. His betrayal was just improvised since unlike Smoke, there weren't really any hints to his betrayal outside of maybe him bailing out on CJ along with Smoke in Reuniting the Families. Even CJ's dialogue to Ryder in the last two missions the latter appeared in were recycled, and Ryder's dialogue in Pier 69 were also recycled from his ped quotes. Sure the introduction showed him making an agreement with Smoke, but that came out AFTER the game was complete.

 

As for why CJ didn't kill the two, he was caught in a quandary and remembered he had to get Sweet, and after C.R.A.S.H. put him in exile, they warned him to stay away from Smoke, or Sweet will somehow drop the soap.

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ChasingCoyote

I also agree Ryder was not meant to be an antagonist originally, and as Watersgta3 pointed out the "Introduction" was released Post-release, after it was decided that Ryder would be an antagonist along with Big Smoke. But the point I really want to make is kinda what Lil Weasel said at the start of this thread

On 4/6/2018 at 3:51 AM, lil weasel said:

Have fun PLAYING, try not to dwell on particulars

in other words, "enjoy it, don't destroy it!

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CHARMANDER50
On 4/11/2018 at 1:40 AM, Domac said:

He followed the story in order to find out where they were in the first place, and on his path to find them he became richer than God. :p

 

WTF CJ is no BS sort of thug I respect his bias on gangbangers we are all entitled to speak out.

I just wish more twists in the story to make it spicy.

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