Is it time for Rockstar to change their banning policy?

[Jimbatron]

Alright guys... Ill concede I know literally nothing about GTAO for PC and what issues there are.

 

So you can chastise me for that.

 

So let me back off and ask - is most of this a PC issue?

 

I am a dick, but Im not TRYING to be a dick. I just cant stand when people do something wrong and then double down on the lies when they get caught.

 

I will not say that it is impossible for someone to be unjustly banned.

 

Ive just never met anyone on PS4 to be unjustly banned.

 

Nice Dan Quayle reference, though a bit of a stretch here.

Thank you for a much more reasonable post,

 

I think you are generally talking about a different set of circumstances to what's been discussed here.

 

We've all seen threads started by lone users who say they've been banned but "never done nuffin' wrong". After a bit of questioning they come out and admit they downloaded a tool to get "modded money once, but it was just one time". Me and most other people in this thread don't rush to defend these people. Regardless of how bad they are compared to the hard core cheaters who aggressively f*ck other people's games up, they had to expect a ban.

 

This is not what's happening here though.

 

This like the 2017 incident a huge amount of players got hit, and noticeably a large volume of members here reported while they weren't banned they knew friends who had been that they trusted completely.

 

You then have to consider that R* unbanned some people in 2017 and now in 2018 (but not all). So twice now they themselves believe they have made mistakes. Like every justice system ever created, theirs is not perfect.

 

This thread is not fundamentally about whether R* clamp down hard enough on actual cheaters. It's how they deal with things when their justice system makes mistakes. And currently, it is beyond poor.

 

If you get hit by a ban you suffer a full character wipe with no right to appeal. From a justice system that we know has made mistakes in the past.

 

So if you haven't thought of it already, I'd ask everyone to consider the following.

 

How would you feel if you lost 3-5 years of game progress and character build because a faulty ban wave algorithm mistakenly identified you as a cheater. Then be given no explanation for what evidence it picked up, and be told you have no right to appeal.

 

A lot of good people are still in that boat. Meanwhile the actual cheaters don't care because they buy a new modded account for $5 and pick up where they left off.

 

Why is it so bad? Fundamentally money. It's cheaper to run an automated ban wave than manually monitor game sessions, and stating there is no right to appeal cuts down on support queries as they just auto close them rather than spend time investigating. Cheap, but increases the chances of miscarriages of justice. I gaurantee it will be T2 finance who will have pushed for this "solution", not R* developers who care about the game and the player base.

 

Finally, it's a PC issue for now because they're attempting to combat mod menus that don't exist on the PS4 and XboxOne as the hardware hasn't been cracked - YET. They will be eventually, just as the PS3 and Xbox360 were before then. So just because you don't have any innocent friends on the console who have been hit, it doesn't mean that will be the case forever.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Jimbatron

[Xiled]

If that "anti-cheat" ever came to consoles and they had this ban wave malfunction, they would lose a large majority of there playerbase. Rockstar support would probably crash from the hundreds of thousands of people that would try to make a ticket at the same time. With the game bing 4.5 years old, doesnt bother me one bit when modders eventually take it over. Who cares thousands of "modded accounts" from ps3 and xbox 360 are still on ps4 and xbone to this day. If they make rdr2 for pc, it will probably be out before next gen gets cracked.

 

Oh well there incompetence will be there downfall.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Xiled

[elfoam]

You guys have a lot more faith in the PS4 being broken than I do, Sony only made one mistake on old PS3 machines, the chances of the PS4 being broken and not being able to be unbroken on the very next firmware I think are very slim anytime in it's useful lifespan. It's running BSD also which helps a lot as far as software goes.

Edited April 4, 2018 by elfoam

[Jimbatron]

You guys have a lot more faith in the PS4 being broken than I do, Sony only made one mistake on old PS3 machines, the chances of the PS4 being broken and not being able to be unbroken on the very next firmware I think are very slim anytime in it's useful lifespan. It's running BSD also which helps a lot as far as software goes.

A lack of faith in it staying secure is probably a better way of describing it.

 

Time will tell but history is not on the side of optimism on this one. Virtually every system ever made has been broken eventually if enough people were trying to do it.

[kenmy13999]

 

Alright guys... Ill concede I know literally nothing about GTAO for PC and what issues there are.

 

So you can chastise me for that.

 

So let me back off and ask - is most of this a PC issue?

 

I am a dick, but Im not TRYING to be a dick. I just cant stand when people do something wrong and then double down on the lies when they get caught.

 

I will not say that it is impossible for someone to be unjustly banned.

 

Ive just never met anyone on PS4 to be unjustly banned.

 

Nice Dan Quayle reference, though a bit of a stretch here.

Thank you for a much more reasonable post,

 

I think you are generally talking about a different set of circumstances to what's been discussed here.

 

We've all seen threads started by lone users who say they've been banned but "never done nuffin' wrong". After a bit of questioning they come out and admit they downloaded a tool to get "modded money once, but it was just one time". Me and most other people in this thread don't rush to defend these people. Regardless of how bad they are compared to the hard core cheaters who aggressively f*ck other people's games up, they had to expect a ban.

 

This is not what's happening here though.

 

This like the 2017 incident a huge amount of players got hit, and noticeably a large volume of members here reported while they weren't banned they knew friends who had been that they trusted completely.

 

You then have to consider that R* unbanned some people in 2017 and now in 2018 (but not all). So twice now they themselves believe they have made mistakes. Like every justice system ever created, theirs is not perfect.

 

This thread is not fundamentally about whether R* clamp down hard enough on actual cheaters. It's how they deal with things when their justice system makes mistakes. And currently, it is beyond poor.

 

If you get hit by a ban you suffer a full character wipe with no right to appeal. From a justice system that we know has made mistakes in the past.

 

So if you haven't thought of it already, I'd ask everyone to consider the following.

 

How would you feel if you lost 3-5 years of game progress and character build because a faulty ban wave algorithm mistakenly identified you as a cheater. Then be given no explanation for what evidence it picked up, and be told you have no right to appeal.

 

A lot of good people are still in that boat. Meanwhile the actual cheaters don't care because they buy a new modded account for $5 and pick up where they left off.

 

Why is it so bad? Fundamentally money. It's cheaper to run an automated ban wave than manually monitor game sessions, and stating there is no right to appeal cuts down on support queries as they just auto close them rather than spend time investigating. Cheap, but increases the chances of miscarriages of justice. I gaurantee it will be T2 finance who will have pushed for this "solution", not R* developers who care about the game and the player base.

 

Finally, it's a PC issue for now because they're attempting to combat mod menus that don't exist on the PS4 and XboxOne as the hardware hasn't been cracked - YET. They will be eventually, just as the PS3 and Xbox360 were before then. So just because you don't have any innocent friends on the console who have been hit, it doesn't mean that will be the case forever.

This is just my opinion and what I believe about the console situation, mostly ps4. As long as Sony still supports it, we probably won't have any trouble with menus on ps4. If the latest update version gets cracked they will just release a new patch and they have to crack the newest update version again and it's nowhere close to as simple as the PS3 was.

When ps5 or whatever it will be called is released and they stop support ps4 we'll maybe/probably see lots of menus online but not before that, maybe one here and there almost like seeing a unicorn because there are some ps4 out there with dev kits and it's probably possible on them

 

I don't think console can run as much things in the background as pc can either so probably less chance of a false detection on anything related to that also.

 

People are also saying that Sony will detect it if you go online with a jailbroken ps4 and brick it, pretty much making it a paper weight (don't know if this is possible or true)

 

I know this post don't have to much to do with the topic but I think I've seen the console will get cracked argument earlier and just put my 2 cents on it but that doesn't change the fact that R* should change their banning policy

 

Also funny seeing Blasterman saying someone is stretching it a little far when he's doing that in pretty much every post I see him make, except the post he wrote that.. Lol

 

I've signed and up voted everything I can that I know of and will try to send or write something to the mouth off thing/part whatever it is was going to write something about the new cars and might as well mention this also

 

 

One last thing, funny how some people think there's nothing wrong with the anti cheat and yet people are using menus that can put other people in bad sport and other things.. Smh

why aren't they detected and banned long before they get a chance to use that menu if the anti cheat is so good??

[Jimbatron]

^ I think it is true that the consoles will always be relatively safer. There are effectively two layers of software protection if they get cracked - R* patches to the game and firmware updates from the manufacturer.

 

However they worry for me is that mod menus don't have be around long to cause a lot of damage. The more malicious ones we've seen can remotely manipulate other players stats and money. One of my concerns would be getting an unwanted cash injection and then getting banned because of it. There's no direct proof people have been banned for that reason so far but I don't have much confidence in R*s ability to address such incidents properly.

[elfoam]

 

You guys have a lot more faith in the PS4 being broken than I do, Sony only made one mistake on old PS3 machines, the chances of the PS4 being broken and not being able to be unbroken on the very next firmware I think are very slim anytime in it's useful lifespan. It's running BSD also which helps a lot as far as software goes.

A lack of faith in it staying secure is probably a better way of describing it.

 

Time will tell but history is not on the side of optimism on this one. Virtually every system ever made has been broken eventually if enough people were trying to do it.

 

Oh I have no doubt if someone serious was trying to do it.. Like the NSA then it's already been done (probably has if they felt like spying on PSN messaging) but the 10 nerds who are actively trying who are spread out across the planet aren't going to get this one done.

Edited April 4, 2018 by elfoam

[TheGhostFromPast]

If you want them to change ban policy, their attitude and everything else then stop buying their games and fish cards. It's the only way how you can make them do it, because they won't care about your or my complaints. You can try to sue them, but I'm guessing that result will be good for them, not for customers, because they are billion dollar company, which can afford the best lawyers on this planet.

 

 

They will continue to be just as shameless and greedy as they are now, as long as they will have enough customers, who buys their games and fish cards.

[Jimbatron]

If you want them to change ban policy, their attitude and everything else then stop buying their games and fish cards. It's the only way how you can make them do it, because they won't care about your or my complaints. You can try to sue them, but I'm guessing that result will be good for them, not for customers, because they are billion dollar company, which can afford the best lawyers on this planet.

 

 

They will continue to be just as shameless and greedy as they are now, as long as they will have enough customers, who buys their games and fish cards.

While I generally agree that's the thing they will respond to most, it was fan pressure - social media, steam reviews and press articles that got Open IV reinstated. There wasn't long enough for them to see a dip in shark cards or game sales as they reversed the decision within a week.

[WoJo07]

People confusing mods with cheats results in r* banning mods. Nothing surprising there. I would leave their policy as is or even make it stricter, but at the same time I would allow for appeal which would result in manual review of the case. Also I would ban game copy instead of just letting cheaters create new characters (or whatever is in place now). They could make money for reviewing appeals from selling another copy to the same cheater (or preferably they could scrap consoles and only develop for PC). Also it would be nice if banhammer worked like it used to when the game launched. It's difficult to give them video evidence of cheating since they shut down banhammer.

[n00berman9000]

Such a policy should never have been implemented in the first place! Truly one-of-a-kind as far as I have ever seen in all my time gaming online. Two strikes you're out??? Who else does that? But the REAL mindblower is the "We're not telling why you're banned" part. The little trolls and R* cheerleaders trying to chalk it up to "so the cheaters don't come back to be better cheaters".

Pffff.... what a crock of sh*t! For one, the cheaters are getting better anyway and two, they don't wait for no ban to expire, they just come back with a modded account or some crap like that.

No. It's all about the Shark card, all about the $$$. On the FIRST offense, character wipe ON TOP OF a 30 day ban, regardless of time invested??? How many sharks are sold to those who want back the stuff they lost under this ridiculous overkill heavy-handed policy? Probably a few. THEN to make it even worse, an honest player who wants to avoid making the same mistake can't, BECAUSE THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WTF THEY DID THE FIRST TIME!!! So then, probably more often than not, strike 2...

"Don't worry, the sharks you bought the last time will be available to you when you go buy a new copy of the game, Best regards...". Rinse and repeat. Maybe not even! Would the sharks linked to a permabanned key work on a new one? Can a new key run on the same Social Club account or do permabanned people have to create a new account altogether?

There's a reason why R* likes to drag their feet when it comes to modders and patching money glitches like the heist finale glitch, for example... It's been going on how long now?

They used to be in it for the game as much as for the profit. Seems to me that now they have become more of a shark card selling business. Game development has taken the back seat. It's all about the $$$ and I imagine they will milk this clever scheme for as long as they possibly can. One thing that I can say for certain is I'm not buying. Never bought a shark on the PC version, for obvious reasons and in light of current events I most definitely NEVER will. OR a new copy of GTA V, for that matter.

Edited April 5, 2018 by n00berman9000

[n00berman9000]

No.

Risks of playing on PC.

Get a console and you don't get banned.

 

LOL are you serious??? PC gaming is far better than console on every possible level. The way R* has chosen to operate is only the exception to the rule.

 

Certainly you don't believe that I am going to run out and spend hundreds of dollars for a console and a THIRD copy of GTA V just because R* can't (or won't) fix their game do you? If you believe that, I have a bridge I would like to sell you. It's a great investment and it's dirt cheap!

 

Running out and spending hundreds of dollars on a PS4 for The Last Of Us Remastered and Final Fantasy VII Remake on the other hand? Maybe... that could happen.

[NeonDolphin]

 

No.

Risks of playing on PC.

Get a console and you don't get banned.

Don't cross the road ever, and you'll never be run over by a car.

 

You should also be aware the last gen consoles were hacked and cheating on them is reportedly rampant. It's only a matter of time before this happens with the current gen.

 

In case of GTA Online it's like crossing an autobahn.

[thepiebaker]

Serious question: anyone have a bud that works for a gaming publication that has a strong enough name to get R* to turn their heads if they start writing articles on GTA-Caust? A few good articles that publicly calls them out might get them to rethink their policies.

[DeMinoTheDragon]

How is this even a question when so many innocent people are getting banned?

[Nutduster]

 

No.

Risks of playing on PC.

Get a console and you don't get banned.

LOL are you serious??? PC gaming is far better than console on every possible level. The way R* has chosen to operate is only the exception to the rule.

 

 

Can we not have another pointless slap-fight over platforms? Thanks in advance.

[Jimbatron]

Serious question: anyone have a bud that works for a gaming publication that has a strong enough name to get R* to turn their heads if they start writing articles on GTA-Caust? A few good articles that publicly calls them out might get them to rethink their policies.

I don't otherwise I would have gone down this avenue already. Anyone else got better contacts?

[Pocket Fox]

So yet again, R* screws over paying customers, undoes their mistake with a limited few either unbanning or giving removed money back.

 

But many dont see that, so R* just says nothing as usual and hopes for it all to go away....

 

Until the next time they money wipe legit players or ban and account wipe some other legit players.

 

Honestly, paying out for ransomware you've a better chance of success.

[TheGhostFromPast]

 

No.

Risks of playing on PC.

Get a console and you don't get banned.

 

LOL are you serious??? PC gaming is far better than console on every possible level. The way R* has chosen to operate is only the exception to the rule.

 

Certainly you don't believe that I am going to run out and spend hundreds of dollars for a console and a THIRD copy of GTA V just because R* can't (or won't) fix their game do you? If you believe that, I have a bridge I would like to sell you. It's a great investment and it's dirt cheap!

 

Running out and spending hundreds of dollars on a PS4 for The Last Of Us Remastered and Final Fantasy VII Remake on the other hand? Maybe... that could happen.

 

 

 

Despite that I prefer to play on PC and agree that gaming on PC is far better I would also prefer that PC vs. console wars would stay out of this discussion.

 

I'm wondering what people are thinking when they are suggesting to buy a console and GTA V for a console as a solution to modder problem?! Are they really that stupid and don't realize that basically doing so we would give Rockstar a signal that we love their incompetence and greed, that they should keep going like this or they just didn't think about all possible ways how their suggestion might look like?! I have enough reasons to not buy any game from this company. Even EA is better than moron star. Wanted to buy Read Dead Redemption, but not anymore.

However I could buy a console because of games like Last Of Us.

 

I would recommend to play something else, which has nothing to do with moron star and let the idiots, cheaters and trolls have this game.

[TheGhostFromPast]

Such a policy should never have been implemented in the first place! Truly one-of-a-kind as far as I have ever seen in all my time gaming online. Two strikes you're out??? Who else does that? But the REAL mindblower is the "We're not telling why you're banned" part. The little trolls and R* cheerleaders trying to chalk it up to "so the cheaters don't come back to be better cheaters".

 

Pffff.... what a crock of sh*t! For one, the cheaters are getting better anyway and two, they don't wait for no ban to expire, they just come back with a modded account or some crap like that.

 

No. It's all about the Shark card, all about the $$$. On the FIRST offense, character wipe ON TOP OF a 30 day ban, regardless of time invested??? How many sharks are sold to those who want back the stuff they lost under this ridiculous overkill heavy-handed policy? Probably a few. THEN to make it even worse, an honest player who wants to avoid making the same mistake can't, BECAUSE THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WTF THEY DID THE FIRST TIME!!! So then, probably more often than not, strike 2...

 

"Don't worry, the sharks you bought the last time will be available to you when you go buy a new copy of the game, Best regards...". Rinse and repeat. Maybe not even! Would the sharks linked to a permabanned key work on a new one? Can a new key run on the same Social Club account or do permabanned people have to create a new account altogether?

 

There's a reason why R* likes to drag their feet when it comes to modders and patching money glitches like the heist finale glitch, for example... It's been going on how long now?

 

They used to be in it for the game as much as for the profit. Seems to me that now they have become more of a shark card selling business. Game development has taken the back seat. It's all about the $$$ and I imagine they will milk this clever scheme for as long as they possibly can. One thing that I can say for certain is I'm not buying. Never bought a shark on the PC version, for obvious reasons and in light of current events I most definitely NEVER will. OR a new copy of GTA V, for that matter.

 

 

 

 

That's true. I've never seen such a policy before. And their EULA is even worse. It's so vague and overall that anything can become a reason to ban someone. It should've been more specific so that everything in it would be more than obvious. Feels like Rockstar really is protecting trolls, cheaters and everyone else, which fits in toxic community definition, as some people say. Don't know any other game company, which would be so incompetent and greedy as Rockstar is. I can't even recommend people to buy GTA V because of it's single player due to fact that along with that they will be sponsoring Rockstar's greed and useless support, which is filled with shamelessness.

Edited April 14, 2018 by TheGhostFromPast