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NewGuybj

GTA III is set During an economic depression [THEORY]

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NewGuybj
Posted (edited)
*NOTE: Sorry for bad bad english, if it comes out.


Hello. I have a theory to share with you. As title saids. I think ( if someone didn't come with this theory, before me) that GTA III is set during a economic depression. I know it looks far fetched, but as more I think about it. The more I believe it.


And again, it's just a theory. Anyway. Why I belive this? Well, there a few clues in game that may suggest that GTA 3 may be set during economic depression. Maybe not all "proof" will see convincing but I really want to share this anyway. So here's my proof, I gathered.


1. Depreciated money. Yes! Because think about it. For example, the Pay N Spray costs $1000 in GTA III, while it costs only $100 in other 3d GTA games ( I don't know about Advance, but there I think is the same as GTA 3). Not only Pay N Spray but other things too: bombs, guns cost 10 times more then in previous GTA games. And aslo the fact that you getting ridiculous ammount of money for every mission in the game. Money is worthless in gta 3. I think it could be because the money is depreciated. As it was the case in some places during 1930's depression. More too it, that in GTA Liberty City stories, the money value is the same as in other gta games ( VC, SA). So in just 3 years, money got less worth. You can say that. Sorry for bad english. Athough it could be another reason why. But this maybe why.


2. Porter Tunnel. Another point I want to make, that Porter Tunnel is falling behind the schedule to open. According to LCS and GTA 3 the tunnel meant to open April 2001, but was delayed to October 2011. Maybe because of the economic problems? It also saids that that tunnel opening was delayed several times. The economic problems could be one of the problems to cause that. Also the fact that tunnel in LCS is almost finished. Cus if you explore that part, which in under construction, you see that a lot is done. Just a entrance on Staunton side and small part to Portland are left to do. Not that much left. I don't think that it would took 3 years to finish.


3. SPANK. Another point I want to make that also a main part of the story is the SPANK drug. And how much inflluence it has. Basically it is spread though out the whole city. Columbian cartel has so much influence because of it. They freely distribute it. Not even police or city goverment can't stop them. So much so, that other city gangs themselves try to stop SPANK from spreading out. This could be cause of the depression. It's such an anarchy that things like this widespread. And that city goverment is so corrupt. Not the strongest clue, but still deserve mentioning.


4. Manhunt. Last point. It is pretty much confirmed that Manhunt and Manhunt 2 take place in the GTA 3D universe, in the year's 2003 and 2007. Because of various referencesd to Carcer city ijn gta 2 and other titles. Also Gary Schaffer a chief of Carcer City Police is mentioned in GTA III and has voice appearence in Manhunt. So, back to theory. The fact that Carcer City is so crime- ridden and has so corrupt police force, can be result of Economic Depression. If you played the game, you can see that city has a lot of abandonet places all over. Like a Zoo, a Darkwoods Penitentiary an abandoned

prison complex, Church, unfinished Mall and so on. And all thses places are run by dangerous gangs. Don't mention the fact that Lionel Starkwaether uses these places, like hi's personal playground. No control whatsoever. Anarchy.

And the Cottonmouth, the setting of Manhunt 2. Is stated taht in 2001 it had a low crime rate, but by 2007 the crime rate went up severely. it is said because of Organized crime. But can be other factors too.


So, that's my theory. Maybe not convincing enough, but still fun to think about. If I find more evidence, I will post that later. Maybe you will find something compelling. Thanks and remember, It's just a THEORY.

Edited by NewGuybj

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Keano

 

*NOTE: Sorry for bad bad english, if it comes out.
Hello. I have a theory to share with you. As title saids. I think ( if someone didn't come with this theory, before me) that GTA III is set during a economic depression. I know it looks far fetched, but as more I think about it. The more I believe it.
And again, it's just a theory. Anyway. Why I belive this? Well, there a few clues in game that may suggest that GTA 3 may be set during economic depression. Maybe not all "proof" will see convincing but I really want to share this anyway. So here's my proof, I gathered.
1. Depreciated money. Yes! Because think about it. For example, the Pay N Spray costs $1000 in GTA III, while it costs only $100 in other 3d GTA games ( I don't know about Advance, but there I think is the same as GTA 3). Not only Pay N Spray but other things too: bombs, guns cost 10 times more then in previous GTA games. And aslo the fact that you getting ridiculous ammount of money for every mission in the game. Money is worthless in gta 3. I think it could be because the money is depreciated. As it was the case in some places during 1930's depression. More too it, that in GTA Liberty City stories, the money value is the same as in other gta games ( VC, SA). So in just 3 years, money got less worth. You can say that. Sorry for bad english. Athough it could be another reason why. But this maybe why.
2. Porter Tunnel. Another point I want to make, that Porter Tunnel is falling behind the schedule to open. According to LCS and GTA 3 the tunnel meant to open April 2001, but was delayed to October 2011. Maybe because of the economic problems? It also saids that that tunnel opening was delayed several times. The economic problems could be one of the problems to cause that. Also the fact that tunnel in LCS is almost finished. Cus if you explore that part, which in under construction, you see that a lot is done. Just a entrance on Staunton side and small part to Portland are left to do. Not that much left. I don't think that it would took 3 years to finish.
3. SPANK. Another point I want to make that also a main part of the story is the SPANK drug. And how much inflluence it has. Basically it is spread though out the whole city. Columbian cartel has so much influence because of it. They freely distribute it. Not even police or city goverment can't stop them. So much so, that other city gangs themselves try to stop SPANK from spreading out. This could be cause of the depression. It's such an anarchy that things like this widespread. And that city goverment is so corrupt. Not the strongest clue, but still deserve mentioning.
4. Manhunt. Last point. It is pretty much confirmed that Manhunt and Manhunt 2 take place in the GTA 3D universe, in the year's 2003 and 2007. Because of various referencesd to Carcer city ijn gta 2 and other titles. Also Gary Schaffer a chief of Carcer City Police is mentioned in GTA III and has voice appearence in Manhunt. So, back to theory. The fact that Carcer City is so crime- ridden and has so corrupt police force, can be result of Economic Depression. If you played the game, you can see that city has a lot of abandonet places all over. Like a Zoo, a Darkwoods Penitentiary an abandoned
prison complex, Church, unfinished Mall and so on. And all thses places are run by dangerous gangs. Don't mention the fact that Lionel Starkwaether uses these places, like hi's personal playground. No control whatsoever. Anarchy.
And the Cottonmouth, the setting of Manhunt 2. Is stated taht in 2001 it had a low crime rate, but by 2007 the crime rate went up severely. it is said because of Organized crime. But can be other factors too.
So, that's my theory. Maybe not convincing enough, but still fun to think about. If I find more evidence, I will post that later. Maybe you will find something compelling. Thanks and remember, It's just a THEORY.

 

I enjoy reading a good fan theory as much as I enjoy making them up. I enjoyed reading this. I'm not in any sense an economics expert so can't comment on the money stuff but your theory makes lots of since. I love the way you linked Manhunt into this as well. While LCS and GTA III Liberty City was designed on the basis that Rockstar was creating it's own map and not following much of New York's appearance both due to lack of technology and thinking independently, I feel they made 3D Era Liberty City a dark run down place - particularly in GTA III. I often say how similar Liberty City feels to Carcer City.

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NewGuybj
Posted (edited)

Thanks :D

Edited by NewGuybj

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tnz1992

This theory is fairly reasonable, I remember I used to laugh as a kid when you just deliver Misty for Joey and you get 1000$ for it, that kind of money made no sense. I do believe this is the real reason why the money is like that, so they made prices higher, if that feature was kept, obtaining money would have been to easy, at some point they removed it, but I guess they didin't bother to change payouts and in-game item prices.

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Helegad

The only "reference" to GTA in Manhunt 2 is a bunch of vehicle models used throughout the game, slightly touched up to look different enough. It wouldn't surprise me if Cottonmouth was referenced eventually but until then, I don't see any real link. The designers were probably just saving time (= money) by reusing assets. Besides, MH2 could be set in the 70s or 80s due to the lack of any advanced technology in the game, and it's unusual for R* to reference in-game events over ten years old in the timeline. Oh, and the Manhunt Wikia is so full of sh*t it makes GTA Wikia look like Encyclopedia Britannica.

 

Don't forget also that GTA and GTA2 rewarded thousands and thousands of "dollars" for middling tasks too; I believe up until Vice City your money total was supposed to be more of a high score than actually representing money.

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NewGuybj
Posted (edited)

The only "reference" to GTA in Manhunt 2 is a bunch of vehicle models used throughout the game, slightly touched up to look different enough. It wouldn't surprise me if Cottonmouth was referenced eventually but until then, I don't see any real link. The designers were probably just saving time (= money) by reusing assets. Besides, MH2 could be set in the 70s or 80s due to the lack of any advanced technology in the game, and it's unusual for R* to reference in-game events over ten years old in the timeline. Oh, and the Manhunt Wikia is so full of sh*t it makes GTA Wikia look like Encyclopedia Britannica.

 

Don't forget also that GTA and GTA2 rewarded thousands and thousands of "dollars" for middling tasks too; I believe up until Vice City your money total was supposed to be more of a high score than actually representing money.

1. There a a lot more references to gta in manhunt 2. For example brand names from VC and SA. Like Suburban, DUDE crane company, the third leg from LCS and so on. And bunch of cars. I think is more just simple easter eggs. Is too obvious. Like other GTA games reference other gta's, you know what I mean? Manhunt 1 also has the same stuff and is pretty much confirmed to be set in GTA 3D universe.

2. According to Manhunt wikia, Manhunt 2 takes place in 2007. And 1st Manhunt didn't looked modern either.

3. I know about gta 1 and 2, but I mean in context with GTA 3 and other 3d gta games.

4. As I said, it just a theory :)

Thanks for your observations btw.

Edited by NewGuybj

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universetwisters

I actually opened this up expecting another stupid theory but this actually makes sense: inflation, public work delays, the influx of drugs, and corruption.

 

Good read! I'll be sure to refer it to anyone looking for decent theories that aren't as dumb as OMG SALVATORE LEONE IS SLENDERMAN!?!?!?!??!?!

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GTA_CAT

Some more hints to add:

-is it me or you find a lot of poor pedestrians which look like homeless people?

-There are remains of an old train yard that connects Hardwood with Portland port (behind Supa Save) by that tunnel where you find four HOMELESS suiciding with molotov coctails, so it was abandoned because of investment lack, in addition to those crazy suicidals that did it bacause of money problems.

-Ferries were closed by the major, maybe for economical reasons too.

-Like Porter tunnel, why both Cedar tunnels in Shoreside Vale are closed?

-The destruction of Fort Staunton must be taken into account, so it could have triggered a crisis.

-There's a closed street in Saint Mark's, it has two holes and never is fixed, however that could be an ingame feature to add realism.

 

Probably there's more stuff to comment.

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Junior_Djjr

Nice theory.

 

 

I believe up until Vice City your money total was supposed to be more of a high score than actually representing money.

Contributing to this statement, the internal name of "money" in GTA 2 and GTA 3+ is "SCORE" as you can see on leaked (full SA) commands list.

 

Also, almost all "MONEY" named commands was added in GTA VC and GTA SA. There were only 2 commands named "MONEY" on GTA III (REGISTER_MONEY_MADE_TAXI and CREATE_MONEY_PICKUP, which makes sense); 10 on GTA VC and 12 on GTA SA, according commands.xml files from GTA3script. No other command using the name "SCORE" (for our money related) was added in GTA VC and SA, meaning that they finally decided that the name of this is actually "money" and not more "score".

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Hmmm nice bike

The only "reference" to GTA in Manhunt 2 is a bunch of vehicle models used throughout the game, slightly touched up to look different enough. It wouldn't surprise me if Cottonmouth was referenced eventually but until then, I don't see any real link. The designers were probably just saving time (= money) by reusing assets. Besides, MH2 could be set in the 70s or 80s due to the lack of any advanced technology in the game, and it's unusual for R* to reference in-game events over ten years old in the timeline.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I remember NPCs in Manhunt 2 mentioning San Andreas and Vice City, and according to the in-game manual, the protagonist, Danny, is from San Fierro. Nothing directly linking to GTA as much as the first Manhunt and they may or may not have had that in mind during development, but it's a safe bet at this point that it's set in the same universe as GTA.

 

Good point about Manhunt 2's date. I always assumed it was in the 2000s, but the TV studios featured in the game look straight out of the 70s/80s, with vintage-looking sets, old cameras, film feels everywhere, etc. But then there's a few 2000s-looking vehicles placed around, and Danny and Leo's birth years are mentioned as being in the 60s and 70s. I think the developers were just confused about when to set the game. It did shift between multiple Rockstar studios and one of them got shut down, so it's possible that one studio had an older setting in mind and designed some of the maps around that, and then when it changed hands the new team either wasnt aware of this or didn't care and decided to go with 2007 as the setting.

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stef_92
Posted (edited)

I join the common opinion here too. I also don't like fan fictions and topics like THIS make me hate fan fictions even more :D .

But your theory here is something different. Even if it's not true (not confirmed officially in the game or by R*) it is absolutely reasonable and makes sense. Yes, when it comes to the monetary system in GTA 3 you have these huge numbers and it's like that probably because R* didn't give too much thought about it when they made the game. As you can see they fixed this and all other games released later have more realistic monetary system.

You can still make up a theory about anything from the game if your explanations make sense and don't violate the game's cannon in any way.

A good example of this is how R* made logical explanations about the fact that you can't swim in the ocean in GTA 3 and also the fact that there are no bikes in Liberty City during the events of GTA 3, both of which are due to the fact that this features were simply not implemented yet. For the first one R* have made this Liberty Tree article which explains why swimming in the water is dangerous to your health due to an oil spill in the ocean (yet I'm not sure if the Liberty Tree website was created before or after the game release). For the second one they made this Liberty Tree article in the game GTA Liberty City Stories which kinda gives explanation about the absence of bikes in GTA 3.

Unlike your explanation about the economic depression these are official things but yet for me your theory is legit since you don't violate the cannon and use real facts from the game.

Edited by stef_92

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NewGuybj
Posted (edited)

I join the common opinion here too. I also don't like fan fictions and topics like THIS make me hate fan fictions even more :D .

But your theory here is something different. Even if it's not true (not confirmed officially in the game or by R*) it is absolutely reasonable and makes sense. Yes, when it comes to the monetary system in GTA 3 you have these huge numbers and it's like that probably because R* didn't give too much thought about it when they made the game. As you can see they fixed this and all other games released later have more realistic monetary system.

You can still make up a theory about anything from the game if your explanations make sense and don't violate the game's cannon in any way.

A good example of this is how R* made logical explanations about the fact that you can't swim in the ocean in GTA 3 and also the fact that there are no bikes in Liberty City during the events of GTA 3, both of which are due to the fact that this features were simply not implemented yet. For the first one R* have made this Liberty Tree article which explains why swimming in the water is dangerous to your health due to an oil spill in the ocean (yet I'm not sure if the Liberty Tree website was created before or after the game release). For the second one they made this Liberty Tree article in the game GTA Liberty City Stories which kinda gives explanation about the absence of bikes in GTA 3.

Unlike your explanation about the economic depression these are official things but yet for me your theory is legit since you don't violate the cannon and use real facts from the game.

Yeah, thanks :D One of my itentions was not to ruin continuity. And I know that R* didn't think about the money thing in gta 3. I just try to come up with in- universe explanation. And as I said. It just a fUn theory, to think about :D

Edited by NewGuybj

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stef_92

Yes, I understand you and you did it right. Btw while we are on the topic about the money in GTA3, this is a topic of mine which may be interesting to you: http://gtaforums.com/topic/812576-money

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jaljax

Very interesting theory

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Helegad
Posted (edited)

 

The only "reference" to GTA in Manhunt 2 is a bunch of vehicle models used throughout the game, slightly touched up to look different enough. It wouldn't surprise me if Cottonmouth was referenced eventually but until then, I don't see any real link. The designers were probably just saving time (= money) by reusing assets. Besides, MH2 could be set in the 70s or 80s due to the lack of any advanced technology in the game, and it's unusual for R* to reference in-game events over ten years old in the timeline.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I remember NPCs in Manhunt 2 mentioning San Andreas and Vice City, and according to the in-game manual, the protagonist, Danny, is from San Fierro. Nothing directly linking to GTA as much as the first Manhunt and they may or may not have had that in mind during development, but it's a safe bet at this point that it's set in the same universe as GTA.

 

Good point about Manhunt 2's date. I always assumed it was in the 2000s, but the TV studios featured in the game look straight out of the 70s/80s, with vintage-looking sets, old cameras, film feels everywhere, etc. But then there's a few 2000s-looking vehicles placed around, and Danny and Leo's birth years are mentioned as being in the 60s and 70s. I think the developers were just confused about when to set the game. It did shift between multiple Rockstar studios and one of them got shut down, so it's possible that one studio had an older setting in mind and designed some of the maps around that, and then when it changed hands the new team either wasnt aware of this or didn't care and decided to go with 2007 as the setting.

 

 

You're right, I got a bit ahead of myself there. Forgot about the billboards and the manual.

 

Rockstar North, according to ex-Vienna employees, didn't do much but excessively chop and change their work. Vienna's version could have been sh*te, who knows, there is very little information and media of any kind from Vienna's development period to look at. Manhunt 2 isn't exactly Rockstar's magnum opus, but I doubt all of it was North's fault. I'd really like to see Vienna's version regardless... probably never will though.

 

Stuff like the date the game takes place would most definitely be in the design documents, and I think it was deliberately kept ambiguous. Manhunt had a few calendars here and there indicating October 2003 (if I remember correctly) but there's nothing like that in Manhunt 2. I just read the PS2 manual for the first time (PSP is a little different) and there's heaps of info in there I had no idea about. White's memo to Pickman about the escape-rampage events specifies a weekday, day, and month, but no year: Monday, May 14. The years 1973, 1979, 1984, 1990, 2001, and 2007 had a Monday on this date (and so does this year, actually).

Edited by Helegad

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Hmmm nice bike

You're right, I got a bit ahead of myself there. Forgot about the billboards and the manual.

 

Rockstar North, according to ex-Vienna employees, didn't do much but excessively chop and change their work. Vienna's version could have been sh*te, who knows, there is very little information and media of any kind from Vienna's development period to look at. Manhunt 2 isn't exactly Rockstar's magnum opus, but I doubt all of it was North's fault. I'd really like to see Vienna's version regardless... probably never will though.

 

Stuff like the date the game takes place would most definitely be in the design documents, and I think it was deliberately kept ambiguous. Manhunt had a few calendars here and there indicating October 2003 (if I remember correctly) but there's nothing like that in Manhunt 2. I just read the PS2 manual for the first time (PSP is a little different) and there's heaps of info in there I had no idea about. White's memo to Pickman about the escape-rampage events specifies a weekday, day, and month, but no year: Monday, May 14. The years 1973, 1979, 1984, 1990, 2001, and 2007 had a Monday on this date (and so does this year, actually).

 

Honestly, in that case, then it's probably set in 2007 (with the flashbacks being in 2001). I would have also maybe gone for 2004 as a possible year, since the flashback scenes use billboards for movies from LCS, which was set in 1998, but more than likely that was just an oversight with the developers not bothering to come up with anything new.

 

It felt like they were ambiguous with a lot of the game's setting. Besides the almost unknown-unless-you-really-look-hard year, the city itself is never even named in the game, all that's discernible is that it's somewhere in the deep south. Rockstar themselves later said they based it on Tampa, Atlanta, Charleston and New Orleans, and those influences are visible at least. I do wonder if Rockstar Vienna had anything different in mind with the game. Looking it up again, it looks like Rockstar really f*cked over the Vienna crew and didn't even bother crediting them with anything (something I heard that they STILL do to this day with employees who put in a ton of work and end up leaving). According to this guy who was a former programmer (and if I'm understanding him correctly), the version that was released was virtually identical to the one Vienna finished in 2006. Sounds like he and a few other developers also were also well aware that the game was crap.

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Helegad
Posted (edited)

By his own admission he didn't play the game. If he was looking at trailers and the like, yeah, it would have looked the "same". I'm sure he would have been salty enough not to purchase the game either after all that too.

 

As for the location name, Cottonmouth is seen twice: once in an asylum poster, and once on the side of the helicopter in Domestic Disturbance(?). I think the PC version removed the helicopter decal, but it's well visible on PS2 and PSP. The question that R* answered that you're referring to also specified Cottonmouth as the name and the response didn't correct them, so it's either official or left deliberately ambiguous once again.

Edited by Helegad

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NewGuybj

By his own admission he didn't play the game. If he was looking at trailers and the like, yeah, it would have looked the "same". I'm sure he would have been salty enough not to purchase the game either after all that too.

 

As for the location name, Cottonmouth is seen twice: once in an asylum poster, and once on the side of the helicopter in Domestic Disturbance(?). I think the PC version removed the helicopter decal, but it's well visible on PS2 and PSP. The question that R* answered that you're referring to also specified Cottonmouth as the name and the response didn't correct them, so it's either official or left deliberately ambiguous once again.

me?

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NewGuybj
Posted (edited)

UPDATE:

Some things, I can add to this theory. Like someone said it: Destruction of Fort Staunton, could had some impact. That everyone's on SPANK ( even cops). Overall depressing atmoshpere in the city. Unstopabble gang violance ( This one tough, can be far fetched). Also if add Manhunt. So many abandoned bussines and entire districts. How Cottonmouth transform from family- friendly city, to crime riddled one. The fact, that for money you do anything. Kill Kenji for example. Even tough Claude knew, what might happen ( as case with other gangs). How the entire Carcer Cit Police is corrupt. That mr. Lionel Strakweather can do whatever he wants, without repercussions, until offcourse Cash kills him (spoiler).

If I found some more compelling evidence, I post them here. Other members, do that as well.

 

Keep this thread alive! :)

Edited by NewGuybj

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GTA_CAT

UPDATE:

Some things, I can add to this theory. Like someone said it: Destruction of Fort Staunton, could had some impact. That everyone's on SPANK ( even cops). Overall depressing atmoshpere in the city. Unstopabble gang violance ( This one tough, can be far fetched). Also if add Manhunt. So many abandoned bussines and entire districts. How Cottonmouth transform from family- friendly city, to crime riddled one. The fact, that for money you do anything. Kill Kenji for example. Even tough Claude knew, what might happen ( as case with other gangs). How the entire Carcer Cit Police is corrupt. That mr. Lionel Strakweather can do whatever he wants, without repercussions, until offcourse Cash kills him (spoiler).

If I found some more compelling evidence, I post them here. Other members, do that as well.

 

Keep this thread alive! :)

Usually spoiler alerts are written before the spoiler itself XD

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Evil empire
Posted (edited)

If Liberty City was real I would say it's a good theory but since it's a fictional place there's not much to debate about.

 

The way the money is managed is probably a mean to show you can become rich fastly in LC or fastly fail trying depending on the way you play. Rockstar maybe received a negative feedback about it hence the great change of prices in the following episodes.

 

The player is supposed to be stuck in Portland in the beginning. It wouldn't make sense if the Porter tunnel and metro were accessible while the medias announce Portland is isolated from the rest of the city. I never played LCS but we can always assume the Porter tunnel appears there as a wink to GTA 3.

 

The drug wars are a very good source of inspiration for a gangster-mafia based franchise so Rockstar exploits it like in Vice City or San Andreas.

 

I never played Manhunt but if both universes are alike there's nothing surprising it's mentioned in GTA 3, it's just self-advertisement ; if you like this you will also that and that other similar product.

Edited by Evil empire

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LongLiveJojo

Nice theory.

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