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so the us goverment is blaming video games again for the mass shootings


Quinn_flower

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Quote

 

Trump had millions of dollars in cuts to funding mental health services in his first budget as president.

The President of the United States doesn't have the power to create budgets--it seems you have been given incorrect information. He has the power to veto a budget or any other law, but even that power can be overridden by Congress with enough votes.

 

 

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No, we need gun control. We have human control and we don't seem to have any problem adjusting it when we feel it would be helpful.

What do you mean? That's exactly what we have a huge problem doing. For example, our police and prison systems are in need of massive reforms, and yet there is no sign of any such thing happening. We have people serving years and years in prison for using or possessing "evil chemicals", yet guys who actually murder people get let out to make room for more drug offenders and "white collar" criminals. We have the majority of police departments riding around collecting taxes, i.e. writing tickets, rather than actually protecting the populace, which is their only legitimate job. I would respectfully submit that you are not fully aware of the relevant issues.

 

 

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Despite our attempts at human control gun deaths are still at epic levels.

If it is the availability of guns that is the problem, then why didn't the U.S. have a problem with mass shootings/school shootings before the 1960s when gun ownership was far higher and access far easier? Why was the murder rate in general lower when gun ownership was far higher? If it is the availability of guns that is the problem, then why do only the tiniest micro-fraction of people who have access to firearms ever use one to murder someone? Are you taking all evidence into consideration, scientifically? If not, your conclusions are probably not valid.

 

 

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Actually, it's not that hard to force someone in to a mental health hospital. I work in behavioral health and we do it all the time as long as there is a legitimate reason.

I'm by no means an expert on this subject. It was just my understanding that a person has to actually attempt to kill himself or another person, or perhaps threaten to do so, before he can be committed involuntarily. Merely being clinically insane--e.g. paranoid, schizophrenic, delusional, etc. isn't enough.

 

 

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Your argument about what guns are made for doesn't make any sense. They were created and are created to kill living things.

No, they were not. They were created in order to be a more effective method of attack, defense, and hunting than the existing weapons of the time. They were created because when it comes to matters of preserving one's life against violence or hunger, one does not want to be at a disadvantage.

 

A firearm is a tool. All that matters is that a gun is worthless unless a person points it at something and pulls the trigger. That makes the human being the most important factor. Every murder since the dawn of Man has involved a human, but only a tiny fraction have involved guns. Guns aren't the reason people take innocent life. Focusing on guns just helps the politicians avoid focusing on the real issues.

 

 

23 hours ago, simpjkee said:

There are guns everywhere in America and it is far too easy to obtain a gun legally or illegally and then use it on yourself or someone else.

There are vehicles everywhere in America and it is far too easy for me to obtain a vehicle legally or illegally and then use it to run over the nearest group of people. Why don't I do it? Why don't you do it? Why don't most people do it?

 

What if you could snap your finger and eliminate every firearm from the face of the earth, and the knowledge of constructing one from the minds of every man. What if the use of vehicles in murder and mass murder attempts then began to rise significantly? What do you think the politicians would do? Deal with the problem? Or enact legislation requiring the use of self-driving vehicles? Cure? Or Band-Aid?

 

 

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The politicians can't lead by example because the country is awash in guns and they have to protect themselves from all the other guns in the country. That said there are many politicians who would love to lead by example and work toward addressing the problem, but the corruption in our political system makes it impossible.

So....they won't give up their guns until everyone else gives up theirs and is no longer a threat? Sorry, politicians have said that owning or carrying a gun is unnecessary and only something a nut would do. In that case, they are going to have to get rid of all guns within their proximity, and also disarm the police forces first.

 

Because there is no need to own or carry a gun. Only a nut would even want to.

Edited by Dryspace
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3 hours ago, Dryspace said:

The President of the United States doesn't have the power to create budgets--it seems you have been given incorrect information. He has the power to veto a budget or any other law, but even that power can be overridden by Congress with enough votes.

 

 

What do you mean? That's exactly what we have a huge problem doing. For example, our police and prison systems are in need of massive reforms, and yet there is no sign of any such thing happening. We have people serving years and years in prison for using or possessing "evil chemicals", yet guys who actually murder people get let out to make room for more drug offenders and "white collar" criminals. We have the majority of police departments riding around collecting taxes, i.e. writing tickets, rather than actually protecting the populace, which is their only legitimate job. I would respectfully submit that you are not fully aware of the relevant issues.

 

 

If it is the availability of guns that is the problem, then why didn't the U.S. have a problem with mass shootings/school shootings before the 1960s when gun ownership was far higher and access far easier? Why was the murder rate in general lower when gun ownership was far higher? If it is the availability of guns that is the problem, then why do only the tiniest micro-fraction of people who have access to firearms ever use one to murder someone? Are you taking all evidence into consideration, scientifically? If not, your conclusions are probably not valid.

 

 

I'm by no means an expert on this subject. It was just my understanding that a person has to actually attempt to kill himself or another person, or perhaps threaten to do so, before he can be committed involuntarily. Merely being clinically insane--e.g. paranoid, schizophrenic, delusional, etc. isn't enough.

 

 

No, they were not. They were created in order to be a more effective method of attack, defense, and hunting than the existing weapons of the time. They were created because when it comes to matters of preserving one's life against violence or hunger, one does not want to be at a disadvantage.

 

A firearm is a tool. All that matters is that a gun is worthless unless a person points it at something and pulls the trigger. That makes the human being the most important factor. Every murder since the dawn of Man has involved a human, but only a tiny fraction have involved guns. Guns aren't the reason people take innocent life. Focusing on guns just helps the politicians avoid focusing on the real issues.

 

 

There are vehicles everywhere in America and it is far too easy for me to obtain a vehicle legally or illegally and then use it to run over the nearest group of people. Why don't I do it? Why don't you do it? Why don't most people do it?

 

What if you could snap your finger and eliminate every firearm from the face of the earth, and the knowledge of constructing one from the minds of every man. What if the use of vehicles in murder and mass murder attempts then began to rise significantly? What do you think the politicians would do? Deal with the problem? Or enact legislation requiring the use of self-driving vehicles? Cure? Or Band-Aid?

 

 

So....they won't give up their guns until everyone else gives up theirs and is no longer a threat? Sorry, politicians have said that owning or carrying a gun is unnecessary and only something a nut would do. In that case, they are going to have to get rid of all guns within their proximity, and also disarm the police forces first.

 

Because there is no need to own or carry a gun. Only a nut would even want to.

Your words in italics...

 

I know. It was Trump's proposed budget. And considering Republicans held all branches government...

 

I mean it's impossible to stop people from wanting to murder. I agree we need prison reform, but not jailing drug dealers or possessors to imprison murderers clearly doesn't work. People will still murder. Prison is not a sufficient detourent as the murderers generally think they're gonna get away with it and many mass murderers go in to the shooting preparing for a mass murder/suicide anyway.

 

A debate over why people commit mass murder and gun availability, etc could go on for pages and pages. The simple fact is that we have a problem. Other countries have solved the problem with gun control. Most of Americans including me are ready to do the same.

 

A person doesn't need to attempt, or even say they want to hurt themselves or others to be petitioned by the court for involuntary treatment. They merely have to be determined to be a danger to themselves or others. For example, if someone is anorexic and having medical problems they are a danger to themselves even if they say they do not intend to harm themself. That person could be petitioned for involuntary treatment. I recently worked with a 20 year old whos parents petitioned the court to have their son involuntarily treated as a danger to himself because he used heroin. It was successfull and the son was taken to an involuntary facility at the place I work.

 

Guns were created with the sole purpose of killing living things and because they are tools to kill living things they are a "more effective method of attack, defense, and hunting". They weren't created for cooking, cleaning, or watering flowers.

 

They don't use vehicles because guns are cheaper, easier to obtain, and far more efficient tools for killing large amounts of people in very little time.

 

Here in the Phoenix area we are actually hosting the pilot program for fully automated self driving vehicles. (There wont even be a human in the vehicle except the passenger). I couldn't be happier as I've been rear ended 6 times, yet never hit another car. I trust a computer to drive vehicles more safely than humans. I welcome this change and would love to see it become the norm as motor vehicle accidents are also a huge problem that needlessly lead to deaths and increased medical costs and suffering. Similar to guns, except that they serve and were created for the purposes of transportation. Death of a living being is a side effect of cars, but the intent of guns.

 

"They were created because when it comes to matters of preserving one's life against violence or hunger, one does not want to be at a disadvantage.".... especially when you're a politician and leader who is "tryna take mu guns away".

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1 hour ago, simpjkee said:

I agree we need prison reform, but not jailing drug dealers or possessors to imprison murderers clearly doesn't work. People will still murder. Prison is not a sufficient detourent as the murderers generally think they're gonna get away with it and many mass murderers go in to the shooting preparing for a mass murder/suicide anyway.

Prison isn't supposed to be a deterrent, and it certainly isn't a cure (quite the opposite). The point is that I can think of only one legitimate reason for putting a human being in a cage like an animal, and that is when he acts like an animal--when he is a physical threat to others. The point is that there is no excuse for letting convicted murderers back out into the population to murder again, which is exactly what happens. If politicians cared about injury and death they would actually do something about these very real problems.

 

 

Quote

The simple fact is that we have a problem.

We have a huge number of problems. If you consider untimely death to be one of them, then the number of firearm-related deaths are miniscule compared to other causes. Mass shootings, or school shootings, are a problem, but it's a problem that the U.S. didn't have for 180 years until the 1960s. Gun ownership was far higher than it is now. Guns were ubiquitous. There was no reason a person couldn't walk into a school and start shooting people. Yet they didn't. Why not?

 

 

Quote

Guns were created with the sole purpose of killing living things and because they are tools to kill living things they are a "more effective method of attack, defense, and hunting"...Death of a living being is a side effect of cars, but the intent of guns.

Again, "intent" and "purpose" are irrelevant. I absolutely reject the notion that a particular composition of atoms is illegal because it is "intended" to be used to smoke an illegal plant. It's a tool. It can be used as one sees fit. A firearm is a tool that must be used in a deliberate manner in order to cause harm to a person, a manner in which an ultra-microscopic percentage of all extant firearms are used each year.

 

What does it matter if an automobile is or isn't "intended" by someone (whom?) to be used to harm people? As a matter of fact, automobiles are involved in far more accidental deaths each year than firearms. Applying the concept of "intent" to inanimate objects is wholly unscientific and is only used to obfuscate facts.

 

Quote

Here in the Phoenix area we are actually hosting the pilot program for fully automated self driving vehicles. (There wont even be a human in the vehicle except the passenger). I couldn't be happier as I've been rear ended 6 times, yet never hit another car. I trust a computer to drive vehicles more safely than humans. I welcome this change and would love to see it become the norm as motor vehicle accidents are also a huge problem that needlessly lead to deaths and increased medical costs and suffering.

You are outlining precisely the point that I made earlier. Automobile accident culpability is not even remotely evenly distributed among drivers. A small minority of drivers are responsible for the large majority of accidents, and thus of injury and death. There is a simple way to drastically decrease the occurrence of injury and death, and that is by not giving licenses to people who are incompetent to operate motor vehicles, because it is people and not vehicles that cause accidents.

 

And the issue is even further exacerbated by insurance laws. If the worst drivers had to pay premiums that reflected their actual risk, they would never be able to afford them, but insurance risk is to a significant degree spread out among all drivers so that the best drivers--like yourself--pay much more than necessary in order to support the worst.

 

But states refuse to do anything about these things for several reasons, at least one of them disgustingly political. The bottom line is that politicians don't care about injury and death unless it benefits them to care.

 

Quote

"They were created because when it comes to matters of preserving one's life against violence or hunger, one does not want to be at a disadvantage.".... especially when you're a politician and leader who is "tryna take mu guns away".

Exactly. Especially when you are a politician who is demagoguing against the evil and nonnecessity of guns while surrounded and protected by men with guns. I'm not generally in the habit of paying attention to hypocrites.

Edited by Dryspace
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