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Ondr4H

Same mistakes as GTA V ?

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AlexanderPierce

As the second poster here said, R* does not even consider their behaviour towards GTA V and its' single player portion as a "mistake". They are incredibly proud of themselves and see the shiny dollars they get because of GTAO. I am sure as hell they don't see the flaws in SP, they still think the story is great, the gameworld is "living and breathing" (its not IMO), the map is flawless, etc etc. I think they became incredibly arrogant.

 

I won't trust R* anymore due to V. Those times are over, sadly. They hyped the sh*t out of that game (f. e. by their silence in 2012 or their interviews) but it really was a major disappointment in my opinion (didn't even have astronomic expectations or so). I won't have any hopes towards RDR, and I will never get hyped by a GTA or RDR trailer again. Never.

Ah BTW since The Benz was forced to leave cockstar, get ready for the next GTA to have shorter story, no SP dlcs, no SP updates and much less SP expansions. As a proof, the SP dlc for gta v was in full development, till Leslie was forced to leave, Shawn Fonteno even said that it was "the big deal", after forcing The Benz to leave, they cancelled it, scraped it into small dlcs online, to milk shark cards, as a proof the jetpack released with the doomsday dlc update.

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phenetole

 

 

GTA V is game, that I lost hope in Rockstar games.Singleplayer is rushed and abandoned constantly pushing players to online part of game, which I hate because its mental playground for tryhards kids with mommy and daddy moneys.

 

Can we expect same fate?Im aware that answer is yes...

The mistakes you mentioned are the right thing for take-two as said by strauss zelnick himself, he thinks they undermonetized gta v. And since r* has become a greedy corporate, much worse than Ubisoft imho, you should expect the same fate for RDR2. I'll tell you right now, SP will hardly get any updates. Don't expect any SP dlcs, and much less SP expansions. Instead expect much more microtransactions many times more than gta v. Expect Horse cards, since you'll be buying horses now. Greedy bastards will find a way to implement the greediest sh*t there, even though the game take place in the 1800s.

 

Damn I thought I was angry. I have hope they'll do RDR2 right and that they meant that GTA:6 will be a cash grab. But if they f*ck up RDR2 I'll be right here with you bitching like hell about it.

 

 

But why should a sh*tty online deter anyone from getting the game? If it has a great base sp campaign then a lack of dlc or sh*tty online shouldn't matter all that much since you get more than your money's worth from the sp alone. Isnt that what we want? A great game right out of the box, when did this idea that they have to have post launch support to be a factor to seeing which games to buy?

 

"SP will hardly get any updates, Don't expect any SP dlcs, and much less SP expansions" Why does that matter? Is a base campaign not good enough anymore? If the base game suffers cause of online then sure get angry at R* but if RDR2 has a great base campaign then a lack of dlc shouldn't be an issue to the point where we get this frustrated.

Edited by phenetole
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Interface

^

Well, I already refuse to use the world "campaign" for single player. It doesn't represent the true GTA SP how it is supposed to be. Halo has a campaign. Titanfall has a campaign. Star Wars BF has a campaign. Those campaigns are pretty "short" and lead to the main game which is the online component.

 

A GTA and RDR game should have a full-fledged, long story with depth. GTA IV was like a blockbuster to me. GTA SA - while silly at the same time - had a great story, too, you felt connected to it. And it was long and entertaining. Don't get me started with RDR1, which was one hell of a game with one hell of a story. GTA V is where SP + the storyline started to become short, forgettable, trash-like and rushed, and I hope - for the love of god - that GTA VI and RDR2 won't get such a piece of trash story or even a "campaign" with the only purpose to teach the player how to play online.

Edited by Interface

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phenetole

^

Well, I already refuse to use the world "campaign" for single player. It doesn't represent the true GTA SP how it is supposed to be. Halo has a campaign. Titanfall has a campaign. Star Wars BF has a campaign. Those campaigns are pretty "short" and lead to the main game which is the online component.

 

A GTA and RDR game should have a full-fledged, long story with depth. GTA IV was like a blockbuster to me. GTA SA - while silly at the same time - had a great story, too, you felt connected to it. And it was long and entertaining. Don't get me started with RDR1, which was one hell of a game with one hell of a story. GTA V is where SP + the storyline started to become short, forgettable, trash-like and rushed, and I hope - for the love of god - that GTA VI and RDR2 won't get such a piece of trash story or even a "campaign" with the only purpose to teach the player how to play online.

 

GTAV and RDR had a similiar number of missons.

 

"GTA V is where SP + the story line started to become short, forgettable, trash-like and rushed, and I hope - for the love of god - that GTA VI and RDR2 won't get such a piece of trash story or even a "campaign" with the only purpose to teach the player how to play online."

 

How? I agree that the ending felt a little rushed but the quality of the rest of the game was great. The mission variety and structure were better than previous gta games as well since your not just doing errand missions with the occasional set piece missions. It was hard to connect to the characters but they achieved in delivering a hollywood style blockbuster story. So I highly disagree that the story was just there to teach people how to play online.

Edited by phenetole
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MadTitanThanos

GTA V is game, that I lost hope in Rockstar games.Singleplayer is rushed and abandoned constantly pushing players to online part of game, which I hate because its mental playground for tryhards kids with mommy and daddy moneys.

 

Can we expect same fate?Im aware that answer is yes...

 

Can we expect you to write a legible sentence? I'm aware that the answer is no.

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PvTails

If R* is putting out jetpacks and orbital cannons stuff for GTA:V, then, will saints row come back and give us a believable setting? lol. they'll both just switch places,

This whole GTA is now Saints Row mentally is incorrect.

 

Have you played the 2D era games like GTA 2? GTA Online is pretty much the modern version of that game and it's more closer to it's arcade origins.

GTA San Andreas is also in the same level of ridiculous as V.

 

It's funny to hear that GTA V was originally gonna have a SP alien dlc.

 

 

GTA V is game, that I lost hope in Rockstar games.Singleplayer is rushed and abandoned constantly pushing players to online part of game, which I hate because its mental playground for tryhards kids with mommy and daddy moneys.

 

Can we expect same fate?Im aware that answer is yes...

 

I believe the answer is a definite no.

Red Dead has a smaller playerbase compared to GTA.

GTA V's lack of support after the Free Mode Event update was probably due to a lot veteran devs leaving the North Studio, what they left behind was probably used for GTA Online instead. But this doesn't impact RDR 2 as it's being mainly developed by Rockstar San Diego with assistance from the other studios.

 

I'm pretty sure RDR 2's Multiplayer may go for cosmetic weapon skin earned from crates instead of the money system from GTAO, It's seems more reasonable.

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PvTails

^

Well, I already refuse to use the world "campaign" for single player. It doesn't represent the true GTA SP how it is supposed to be. Halo has a campaign. Titanfall has a campaign. Star Wars BF has a campaign. Those campaigns are pretty "short" and lead to the main game which is the online component.

 

A GTA and RDR game should have a full-fledged, long story with depth. GTA IV was like a blockbuster to me. GTA SA - while silly at the same time - had a great story, too, you felt connected to it. And it was long and entertaining. Don't get me started with RDR1, which was one hell of a game with one hell of a story. GTA V is where SP + the storyline started to become short, forgettable, trash-like and rushed, and I hope - for the love of god - that GTA VI and RDR2 won't get such a piece of trash story or even a "campaign" with the only purpose to teach the player how to play online.

GTA V has the best gameplay aspects to date, shooting mechanics, on-foot controls are better than IV, the driving is a whole lot better mixed with 3D era mechanics. GTA IV which I agree has a better story arc. But the mission structure is dated.

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SeniorDerp

To the folks that think RDR2 will end up nothing but GTAO in the west. Does that feeling for you spread to all future R* games? Let's say R* decides Bully 2 is next in the pipeline, are they going to cripple the game so they can have a successful BullyOnline?

 

Its already been said that GTAO's growth was unexpected and it turned into all hands on deck for obvious reasons. It isn't like R* disabled SP, it's still the same one that was available at release, so why bash it?? I still firmly believe that GTAO being as successful as its been has allowed R* to spend more time/money on RDR2 making sure it isn't a flop, it has massive shoes to fill.

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DexMacLeod

To the folks that think RDR2 will end up nothing but GTAO in the west. Does that feeling for you spread to all future R* games? Let's say R* decides Bully 2 is next in the pipeline, are they going to cripple the game so they can have a successful BullyOnline?

 

Its already been said that GTAO's growth was unexpected and it turned into all hands on deck for obvious reasons. It isn't like R* disabled SP, it's still the same one that was available at release, so why bash it?? I still firmly believe that GTAO being as successful as its been has allowed R* to spend more time/money on RDR2 making sure it isn't a flop, it has massive shoes to fill.

I think it'll just get better and better with each game, honestly. I really don't think Rockstar will ever half-ass their single player experiences and their Online content will improve over time with each iteration just like their games always have.

 

GTA Online certainly has problems but I think Rockstar is aware of them and I expect a lot of them to have been worked out by the time Red Dead Online rolls around.

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.Bach

I'm sure they'll somehow manage to put a DeLorean in the game.

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Darealbandicoot

As the second poster here said, R* does not even consider their behaviour towards GTA V and its' single player portion as a "mistake". They are incredibly proud of themselves and see the shiny dollars they get because of GTAO. I am sure as hell they don't see the flaws in SP, they still think the story is great, the gameworld is "living and breathing" (its not IMO), the map is flawless, etc etc. I think they became incredibly arrogant.

 

I won't trust R* anymore due to V. Those times are over, sadly. They hyped the sh*t out of that game (f. e. by their silence in 2012 or their interviews) but it really was a major disappointment in my opinion (didn't even have astronomic expectations or so). I won't have any hopes towards RDR, and I will never get hyped by a GTA or RDR trailer again. Never.

Don't forget all the lies Imran Sarwar said like Single player dlc was NEVER worked on(Massive lie it was regurgitated intogta online) GTA V was very very complete (What's with all the cut content then?) and it's three games in one (Since when have full gta games besides EFLC had only 20+ missions for the main character?) Items in GTA Online cost practically nothing (LOL) and my favourite, I really don't think we can be accused of gouging the playerbase
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DexMacLeod

When did he say they were NEVER working on single player DLC?

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DexMacLeod

That's just him explaining why single player DLC never got released not that they never worked on it at all.

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Darealbandicoot

That's just him explaining why single player DLC never got released not that they never worked on it at all.

It wasn't POSSIBLE or necessary" He sounded pretty clear to me that he is implying they never worked on such a thing. No resources he said.

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Mas u Sees

 

That's just him explaining why single player DLC never got released not that they never worked on it at all.

It wasn't POSSIBLE or necessary" He sounded pretty clear to me that he is implying they never worked on such a thing. No resources he said.

 

He did imply in the article that they experimented with Singleplayer DLC.

 

He also mentioned that future Rockstar titles may include Singleplayer DLC, and that Singleplayer will still be of upmost importance to Rockstar. Probably in refference to Red Dead Redemption 2.

 

I am sure as hell they don't see the flaws in SP, they still think the story is great, the gameworld is "living and breathing"

 

I do not think that is true, a quote from a Rockstar employee who was interviewing a candidate:

 

The other guy was flat out rude and tainted the air with negativity after I exuded positive praise about their most recent successful project(GTA V) and in reply he said, "What? Its terrible! I see everything wrong with what we made. I don't see anything great about it"
Source: Glassdoors Rockstar San Diego, Interviews

I believe Rockstar is more than focused to improve on their high quality standards.

Since, well, by any standard, GTA Vs Singleplayer was certainly not terrible.

Edited by Mas u Sees
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Ondr4H

 

GTA V is game, that I lost hope in Rockstar games.Singleplayer is rushed and abandoned constantly pushing players to online part of game, which I hate because its mental playground for tryhards kids with mommy and daddy moneys.

Can we expect same fate?Im aware that answer is yes...

 

Can we expect you to write a legible sentence? I'm aware that the answer is no.

English is not my main language, there are many likes so people get the point.
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Kiethblacklion

I believe that, upon release, RDR2 will be great. Whatever the online mode will include will most likely be quite enjoyable, as was GTA V upon first release. However, I find it difficult not to suspect Rockstar to add stuff to RDR2 (either SP or Online), with the intent of sustaining income with micro-transactions. What kinds of stuff could they add? Ranch properties to own, a gold mine to operate, a stage coach company, a railroad company, I don't know.

 

I don't suspect we will get items that wouldn't fit in with the time frame (no time traveling cars, or advanced weaponry, or aliens), but I'm sure someone at Rockstar has been brainstorming the potential of keeping an Online mode running as long as possible, given the success of GTA Online (at the expense of frustration from many players). Only time will tell on how long it will be before RDR2's online mode will jump the shark (which I'm surprised hasn't been added into GTA Online yet).

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N-F-C

i think we can expect the same level of quality of RDR Single player, which is great, and an improved online experience, which is great too.

I don't know about that , remember that the writer were Sam & Dan Houser and that these guy wrote the story for GTA V... so wait and see approach for me

Edited by N-F-C

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Mach1bud

 

i think we can expect the same level of quality of RDR Single player, which is great, and an improved online experience, which is great too.

I don't know about that , remember that the writer were Sam & Dan Houser and that these guy wrote the story for GTA V... so wait and see approach for me

Mate Dan Houser was one of the writers for RDR as well.

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Rafae

 

 

i think we can expect the same level of quality of RDR Single player, which is great, and an improved online experience, which is great too.

I don't know about that , remember that the writer were Sam & Dan Houser and that these guy wrote the story for GTA V... so wait and see approach for me

Mate Dan Houser was one of the writers for RDR as well.

 

 

lmao

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N-F-C

 

 

i think we can expect the same level of quality of RDR Single player, which is great, and an improved online experience, which is great too.

I don't know about that , remember that the writer were Sam & Dan Houser and that these guy wrote the story for GTA V... so wait and see approach for me

Mate Dan Houser was one of the writers for RDR as well.

 

Yeah and so? They also wrote GTA IV, Max Payne 3 , SA , VC , III... I didn't elaborate in my first post but the point being is that there writing skills are uneven, for me a quality single player as to incorporate in is foundation a good story as for the multiplayer experience i'm not a big fan of grindfest so wait and see approach about this aspect too

Edited by N-F-C

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Mach1bud

 

 

 

i think we can expect the same level of quality of RDR Single player, which is great, and an improved online experience, which is great too.

I don't know about that , remember that the writer were Sam & Dan Houser and that these guy wrote the story for GTA V... so wait and see approach for me
Mate Dan Houser was one of the writers for RDR as well.

 

Yeah and so? They also wrote GTA IV, Max Payne 3 , SA , VC , III... I didn't developped in my first post but the point being is that there writing skills are uneven, for me a quality single player as to incorporate in is foundation a good story as for the multiplayer experience i'm not a big fan of grindfest so wait and see approach about this aspect too

I wouldn't say their skills are uneven, 5+ games with great stories and one with only a good story. I'd say they have a great track record.

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N-F-C

 

 

 

 

i think we can expect the same level of quality of RDR Single player, which is great, and an improved online experience, which is great too.

I don't know about that , remember that the writer were Sam & Dan Houser and that these guy wrote the story for GTA V... so wait and see approach for me
Mate Dan Houser was one of the writers for RDR as well.

 

Yeah and so? They also wrote GTA IV, Max Payne 3 , SA , VC , III... I didn't developped in my first post but the point being is that there writing skills are uneven, for me a quality single player as to incorporate in is foundation a good story as for the multiplayer experience i'm not a big fan of grindfest so wait and see approach about this aspect too

I wouldn't say their skills are uneven, 5+ games with great stories and one with only a good story. I'd say they have a great track record.

 

i think it's a matter of taste, but i agree to the fact that uneven is a strong word , maybe more like somtime they can miss

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SneakyDeaky

It's simple for me, really. All I want is more of RDR 1 but a new story and all the new graphics and animations that the newer hardware will provide. Just don't f*ck with the system!

I want the poker mini-game. The most fun mini-game rockstar did and the only one I've played for 2 or 3 hours at a time. The only mini game I've played that either had me smirk and walk away with dumb pride because I cleared the table, or had me shoot up the entire room, the bar, the street, and the town, because Herbert Moon beat me with a sh*tty three pair.

I want dueling and I want to shoot guy's hats off. I want to tame horses. I want to loot dead bodies. I want to hunt and collect furs and sell them in the town that pays the most. I want safe houses all over the map I can buy. I want dead-eye. I want treasure hunting. And Legendary animals. Camp stories. And I want to build a bounty so large, that half the state randomly spawns and chases me when I'm trying to pick flowers.

As long as they keep all, or at least most, of what made RDR 1 so good, and with all the polish Rockstar puts into their games, I'm positive they can't f*ck this up.

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N-F-C

What worries me is that i think rockstar is going for that nostalgia factor too much , almost like lazyness ( the story about the dutch gang , even the box art is nostalgia fill which almost looks like a remake ). I feel like rockstar will try to match the best of both world by bringing all of what we loved with red dead redemption ( the characters mostly ) and the gameplay of GTA V down to the mission structure ( i don't talk for myself but i thinks the heist were pretty well received I thought that was underwhelming ). Hope i'm wrong and something original and groundbreaking is made instead, because if it's the case i'm really done with R* , i expect high quality gaming and experience because i used to be getting those with there release , and for 2 generation of hardware they were the leader on that. The driving force of the Industry. Now it looks like there just about that easy money...

Edited by N-F-C
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N-F-C

 

^

Well, I already refuse to use the world "campaign" for single player. It doesn't represent the true GTA SP how it is supposed to be. Halo has a campaign. Titanfall has a campaign. Star Wars BF has a campaign. Those campaigns are pretty "short" and lead to the main game which is the online component.

 

A GTA and RDR game should have a full-fledged, long story with depth. GTA IV was like a blockbuster to me. GTA SA - while silly at the same time - had a great story, too, you felt connected to it. And it was long and entertaining. Don't get me started with RDR1, which was one hell of a game with one hell of a story. GTA V is where SP + the storyline started to become short, forgettable, trash-like and rushed, and I hope - for the love of god - that GTA VI and RDR2 won't get such a piece of trash story or even a "campaign" with the only purpose to teach the player how to play online.

 

GTAV and RDR had a similiar number of missons.

 

"GTA V is where SP + the story line started to become short, forgettable, trash-like and rushed, and I hope - for the love of god - that GTA VI and RDR2 won't get such a piece of trash story or even a "campaign" with the only purpose to teach the player how to play online."

 

How? I agree that the ending felt a little rushed but the quality of the rest of the game was great. The mission variety and structure were better than previous gta games as well since your not just doing errand missions with the occasional set piece missions. It was hard to connect to the characters but they achieved in delivering a hollywood style blockbuster story. So I highly disagree that the story was just there to teach people how to play online.

 

Mission variety doesn't mean quality mission , i prefer the consistency ( there is even variety in them ) in GTA IV than the variety of GTA V, like tunnel of death is more memorable and enjoyable than giving a tatoo to lazlow or buy some mask and wardrobe , at least for me.

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Dee.

After today, my doubts are extinguished

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Alexlecj

This game seems to follow the path of The Lost and Damned add-on for GTA IV.

 

I sure am fine with that!

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_Klebitz_

From jeuxactu.com (google translate incoming):

 

Feels good to read this:

 

"GTA V was released at the end of the cycle of PS3 and Xbox 360 consoles, which allowed us to optimize the performance of each machine. And then, we brought the game on the new consoles and spent a lot of time to improve it. We did not just overwrite the graphics, we really reworked a lot of things, add new things. And while working on the remaster version of GTA V, we looked at everything we had managed to do; not only the graphics, but also the unfolding of missions, how to integrate them into an open world and how to optimize them."

 

Specially this:

"There were also things that we wanted to correct with the remaster version, but that we could not do because the structure and the base were defined and it was impossible to return to it. I am thinking in particular of the AI of the Police or the whole traffic system, things like that. We could do a lot of other things, like adding new cars, improving the sound, but we could not do it all again. So, while developing Red Dead Redemption 2, we had that in mind, that we had to review everything to go even further."

 

 

 

"So we had to evolve our "Ambiant Population System" so that these NPCs do something else than drop their cup of coffee and run away. So we had to create several types of NPCs, with different characters, more intimate, less neutral and not just aggressive. It was important for us to have different ways of thinking, whether it was a guard on a ranch or in a factory, they do not react in the same way. For example, if you start entering his home, he will know that you are breaking his property and will react accordingly according to your approach. Remember during the demo, the camper Arthur met at one point, he did not want any company. And this character has a different logic of the NPCs who react according to your attitude. The idea is that you can understand that there will be really different characters for each character that will be crossed in the game, so that this world remains unique, alive, organic."

 

I'm glad that R* is working to improve the AI behavior with this game.

Edited by _Klebitz_
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