Saints Row: 2022 Reboot

[Jason]

...would we want them to stick with the established lore? I certainly wouldn't given where it ended up.

 

New cast is fine, GTA does it every game, execution of said cast was rubbish and that was the problem with them.

[WildBrick142]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

...would we want them to stick with the established lore? I certainly wouldn't given where it ended up.

i hate how everyone thinks that the events of SRIV are the end of the real saints' story and they can't do anything else with it ever again.

 

i said it on twitter many months ago; retcon SRIV and gat out of hell to be just another "gangstas in space" movie shoot. then, say, the movie flops real hard or something and saints' popularity drops as a result (this not only could serve as a lore explanation for a retcon, but also as actual subtle commentary on volition itself with how the game wasn't very popular with the og fans) and they have to go back to gangbanging.

then drop in some excuse for the cast to go to santo ileso, maybe because they tracked down dex in there (if gat's death would not be retconned, just blame it on dex ordering morningstar behind the scenes to kill gat specifically or something so we have more excuse to hate him), drop another excuse for them to get roped in to stay there and take over the city as usual with the old church as their HQ there, and then just go on about with the usual business like in the old saints row's.

could even throw in the new cast as extra homies you get while dealing with the gangs, they'd just be turned into hardened saints by the end of the story. or just scrap all of the new gangs and replace them with more grounded ones. or just balance them between weird and grounded. idk. i'm just saying instead of either keeping it all old or all new, why not have both old and new together.

 

i'm by no means a good or creative writer, but there's a big problem if paid professionals couldn't even consider that an option. there are, or were, ways to salvage the series and the lore without doing a full reboot.

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, WildBrick142 said:

i hate how everyone thinks that the events of SRIV are the end of the real saints' story and they can't do anything else with it ever again.

 

i said it on twitter many months ago; retcon SRIV and gat out of hell to be just another "gangstas in space" movie shoot. then, say, the movie flops real hard or something and saints' popularity drops as a result (this not only could serve as a lore explanation for a retcon, but also as actual subtle commentary on volition itself with how the game wasn't very popular with the og fans) and they have to go back to gangbanging.

then drop in some excuse for the cast to go to santo ileso, maybe because they tracked down dex in there (if gat's death would not be retconned, just blame it on dex ordering morningstar behind the scenes to kill gat specifically or something so we have more excuse to hate him), drop another excuse for them to get roped in to stay there and take over the city as usual with the old church as their HQ there, and then just go on about with the usual business like in the old saints row's.

could even throw in the new cast as extra homies you get while dealing with the gangs, they'd just be turned into hardened saints by the end of the story. or just scrap all of the new gangs and replace them with more grounded ones. or just balance them between weird and grounded. idk. i'm just saying instead of either keeping it all old or all new, why not have both old and new together.

 

i'm by no means a good or creative writer, but there's a big problem if paid professionals couldn't even consider that an option. there are, or were, ways to salvage the series and the lore without doing a full reboot.

 

That's an idea.

 

Another idea is a fresh cast.

 

I think SR going onto 5 or 6 games relying on the exact same cast is getting a bit tired IMO, so I'm fine with them going with a new cast... problem is the new cast isn't very good, but the reason for that isn't because they're new.

[Datalvarezguy]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

 

That's an idea.

 

Another idea is a fresh cast.

 

I think SR going onto 5 or 6 games relying on the exact same cast is getting a bit tired IMO, so I'm fine with them going with a new cast... problem is the new cast isn't very good, but the reason for that isn't because they're new.

I wouldn't mind a new gang. That said, beforehand, maybe we should get a proper conclusion to the original story's. Because I don't care what Volition says. SR2's story is not finished. They ended with a massive cliffhanger with Dex and then wrote a completely different story and ignored almost everything that came before it.

Finish off Gat, Boss, Pierce and Shaundi. Conclude the bloody Dex story in a proper way. Then go nuts, whatever, at least the story's FINISHED.

[Jason]

8 minutes ago, Datalvarezguy said:

I wouldn't mind a new gang. That said, beforehand, maybe we should get a proper conclusion to the original story's. Because I don't care what Volition says. SR2's story is not finished. They ended with a massive cliffhanger with Dex and then wrote a completely different story and ignored almost everything that came before it.

Finish off Gat, Boss, Pierce and Shaundi. Conclude the bloody Dex story in a proper way. Then go nuts, whatever, at least the story's FINISHED.

 

Listen I'm not against it, but it runs into the same problem the current game has.

 

Or to put it another way, would you want the current writers writing the classic characters?

 

The issue with the game isn't the ideas on the paper it's the execution of said ideas. Writing, gameplay, visuals, they're all lacking.

[universetwisters]

The new saints row plays fast and loose with its worldbuilding and it’s really dumb. Rimjobs is out but having the donuts at the donut store be named nothing but really bad innuendo is fine?

 

I really wanna meet who was in charge of that decision so I can strap him down and wax all of his hair off

[Zello]

9 hours ago, Jason said:

...would we want them to stick with the established lore? I certainly wouldn't given where it ended up.

 

New cast is fine, GTA does it every game, execution of said cast was rubbish and that was the problem with them.

We need a Saints Row prequel

[Jason]

12 minutes ago, Zello said:

We need a Saints Row prequel

 

Now that is something I'd personally absolutely definitely not want tbh.

 

I typically am not fond if prequels set shortly before the original game/movie cause they're always hamstrung by what went before. Even R* had to fiddle with it for RDR by creating an entirely new character that was massively important but is never mentioned once in the first game. They pulled it off cause they're R* and knocked out one of the best written video game characters ever created... which is not something I think Volition have in their locker lol.

[Zello]

25 minutes ago, Jason said:

They pulled it off cause they're R* and knocked out one of the best written video game characters ever created... which is not something I think Volition have in their locker lol.

Steve Jaros has said that the original plan for SR2 was for it to be set in the 70s.

That could have worked. 

1970s Stilwater the true origins of The Saints.

[sabitsuki]

Just an idea, but ideally imo, there would be a RE2-level trilogy remake of the first two games brought forward to the present day, including a prequel to the first game set in the 90s/early 2000s as a throwback to the originals.

 

Would be interesting if the protagonist of this hypothetical prequel was an undercover fed who goes in to investigate the VKs while doing all that crazy Saints Row sh*t in the midst of it.

Edited September 12 by sabitsuki

[Datalvarezguy]

11 hours ago, Jason said:

Or to put it another way, would you want the current writers writing the classic characters?

This. Honestly it should be a given but for the series' future to have ANY hope, it needs a complete dev switch. *Absolutely nobody* from current Volition should even be in the same city as the next development cycle of any SR games.

 

Y'know, if they didn't single handedly killed the series forever, which is still a possibility. 

Edited September 12 by Datalvarezguy

[sabitsuki]

6 minutes ago, Datalvarezguy said:

This. Honestly it should be a given but for the series' future to have ANY hope, it needs a complete dev switch. *Absolutely nobody* from current Volition should even be in the same city as the next development cycle of any SR games.

 

Y'know, if they didn't single handedly killed the series forever, which is still a possibility. 

Off the top of my head, the writers from Hangar 13 could definitely write a remake or a proper reboot well. As much as I dislike the gameplay in their games, their attention to soundtrack, atmosphere and period dialogue, I'd argue is better-nuanced and more mature than Rockstar's even.

Edited September 12 by sabitsuki

[Datalvarezguy]

1 minute ago, sabitsuki said:

Off the top of my head, the writers from Hangar 13 could definitely write a remake or a proper reboot well. As much as I dislike the gameplay in their games, their attention to soundtrack, atmosphere and period dialogue, I'd argue is better-nuanced and more mature than Rockstar's even.

Hangar 13 gets a lot of bad rep, and honestly, they're not perfect, Mafia 3 is a very flawed Mafia game. Even so, the things they do right, they home-run outta the park. Lincoln Clay's story is one of the last good sandbox game stories I can even remember off the top of my head, the voice acting, story writing and gunplay is excellent. Honestly maybe they'd be a good fit, plug them into the SRverse, give them the lore of the first 2 games and give them the go-ahead. Hopefully it'd be at the very least interesting. That said, H13 totes the line a bit away from the "whacky" sh*t SR had become infamous for. It'd be s tricky balancing act.

[Slappy212]

[sabitsuki]

1 hour ago, Datalvarezguy said:

That said, H13 totes the line a bit away from the "whacky" sh*t SR had become infamous for.

Considering they had a cancelled fantasy game formerly in the works and their former main writer wrote for Marvel and Lucasfilms, I don't think they would neglect the wackier parts, fortunately.

[Bigglo145]

The next saints row (if there is one) needs to start with a new protagonist watching this reboot on tv as a bad sitcom and saying “that was bad” and then turning the tv off

[Ivan1997GTA]

19 minutes ago, Bigglo145 said:

The next saints row (if there is one) needs to start with a new protagonist watching this reboot on tv as a bad sitcom and saying “that was bad” and then turning the tv off

Or, there could be a jab at the reboot's story and dialogue with a commercial for "Purple Shirt Mafia: The Movie".

[Datalvarezguy]

2 hours ago, sabitsuki said:

Considering they had a cancelled fantasy game formerly in the works and their former main writer wrote for Marvel and Lucasfilms, I don't think they would neglect the wackier parts, fortunately.

Well, consider me sold on the idea. I mean, what are the chances this ends up happening? 

 

It'd still be cooler than reality, ngl.

 

 

 

[sabitsuki]

Honestly it doesn't matter if Saints Row or another IP was done right. Point is, the open world crime genre has been monopolized by Rockstar, and as someone who got into console gaming because of this genre, I just find it really frustrating that there aren't any other developers willing to make a worthy competitor to GTA. Rockstar's standards have dipped significantly and people are gonna be dumb enough to settle for mediocrity and anticonsumer sh*t if this keeps up.

 

I blame game journalism too, I really hate how the GTA Clone nomenclature, and the stiff political climate, has discouraged other devs from taking risks to make a compelling and fun criminal game.

Edited September 12 by sabitsuki

[The Tracker]

8 hours ago, sabitsuki said:

Off the top of my head, the writers from Hangar 13 could definitely write a remake or a proper reboot well. As much as I dislike the gameplay in their games, their attention to soundtrack, atmosphere and period dialogue, I'd argue is better-nuanced and more mature than Rockstar's even.

 

I would argue Mafia III had great core gameplay (Its driving and shooting mechanics are top-tier in my book), but then it's completely ruined by its shallow gameplay loop, lack of details from previous games, and a (relatively) empty open world. 

Edited September 12 by The Tracker

[Bigglo145]

6 hours ago, The Tracker said:

 

I would argue Mafia III had great core gameplay (Its driving and shooting mechanics are top-tier in my book), but then it's completely ruined by its shallow gameplay loop, lack of details from previous games, and a (relatively) empty open world. 

Mafia 3 is my least favorite mafia but its one of my favorite games in recent years. I was just planning on redownloading just to witness the setting again. 

[universetwisters]

9 hours ago, sabitsuki said:

 Rockstar's standards have dipped significantly and people are gonna be dumb enough to settle for mediocrity and anticonsumer sh*t if this keeps up.

 

Smart developers would use this as an opportunity to step up where Rockstar is lacking and make a true competitor 

[Jason]

18 minutes ago, universetwisters said:

Smart developers would use this as an opportunity to step up where Rockstar is lacking and make a true competitor 

 

Name a developer with 4k+ developers with 5-7 year development plans and the budget and backing to support that?

 

There's virtually none and I only hesitate to use the word literally there cause I think Riot are probably the only other one active in the games industry right now but they are firmly rooted in online gaming.

 

What R* has and still has is unique.

[universetwisters]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Name a developer with 4k+ developers with 5-7 year development plans and the budget and backing to support that?

 

Ubisoft if they got their sh*t together. Watch Dogs 1 and 2 were great but imo they dropped the ball with Legion like my dad with to me when I was a kid

[Jason]

Just now, universetwisters said:

Ubisoft if they got their sh*t together. Watch Dogs 1 and 2 were great but imo they dropped the ball with Legion like my dad with to me when I was a kid

 

On paper Ubi have the developer count but that's about it in really, they are absolutely miles away from being able to operate and develop games like R*. They'd need to throw out their entire leadership structure for one, and probably loosen themselves away from Tencent who look increasingly likely to be the ones to take them over entirely. Their tech is no where near good enough either really.

 

And honestly if somehow out of no where a studio with the capabilities of R* popped up going into the exact same genre as them would be absolutely braindead. You'd go straight into another genre and do to that what GTA did to the urban crime genre lol.

[universetwisters]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

On paper Ubi have the developer count but that's about it in really, they are absolutely miles away from being able to operate and develop games like R*. They'd need to throw out their entire leadership structure for one, and probably loosen themselves away from Tencent who look increasingly likely to be the ones to take them over entirely. Their tech is no where near good enough either really.

 

idk man I'm just trying to say that, even if it's not entirely 1:1 comparable to Rockstar, if Rockstar were to fall off the wagon then it's not entirely impossible that another company would be coming to take its place. 

[Jason]

55 minutes ago, universetwisters said:

idk man I'm just trying to say that, even if it's not entirely 1:1 comparable to Rockstar, if Rockstar were to fall off the wagon then it's not entirely impossible that another company would be coming to take its place. 

 

I get the jist it's just... not really how things work, really. Lot of great devs have fallen for various reasons and no one scrambled to fill those voids.

 

R* falling of the wagon with their cash grab side projects (likely pushed for by T2) is a bit different to R* falling off the wagon with their mainline projects anwyay. The same stuff was being said for years pre-RDR2 due to GTA V and GTAO and RDR2 turned out to be a masterpiece. R*'s got too much talent, resources, money and time for VI to be anything but a landmark game for the industry really. GTAO2 will be a bit if a different thing, I'd expect, but yea.

 

Plus there's stuff like Yakuza that is vaguely in the same ball park (not played the series my self, I understand it's not quite a sandbox like GTA) that does well. I sorta get the idea of devs not wanting to compete with R* but I would imagine a big reason to avoid the open world urban genre, crime or not, is largely cause the tech behind such games is really difficult in 2022. We saw a huge increase in open world games when open worlds became much easier to create and run, lot of fantasy stuff in particular. Perhaps with stuff like UE5 and it's ability to pull off giant cities (like the Matrix demo) we'll see more devs revisit the genre?

[universetwisters]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

I get the jist it's just... not really how things work, really. Lot of great devs have fallen for various reasons and no one scrambled to fill those voids.

 

idk man I'd say that Watch Dogs and Mafia, despite their faults, were a good start. Ofc they weren't creator killers but had it not been for them being released, Rockstar would probably be even lazier than currently if they knew nobody was biting at their heels.

 

RDR2 turned out to be a masterpiece at the cost of Red Dead Online. Conversely (depending on your opinion or bias) you could say that GTA Online turned out to be a masterpiece at the cost of GTA 5. The past two games goes to show that Rockstar cannot multitask and if you follow that formula to VI, either single player will be amazing but with a lackluster multiplayer or vice versa. Of course, I could be very well wrong. I hope I'm wrong! But when you look at how little they cared when it came to remastering the trilogy, even though it was a minor studio that did it, what optimism do I have that VI won't be trash, or at least open a void for other open world crime devs to jump into?

 

 

[Zello]

1 hour ago, universetwisters said:

 

Ubisoft if they got their sh*t together. Watch Dogs 1 and 2 were great but imo they dropped the ball with Legion like my dad with to me when I was a kid

Ubisoft needs to bring back Watch Dogs or dig up Drivers corpse

[universetwisters]

33 minutes ago, Zello said:

Ubisoft needs to bring back Watch Dogs or dig up Drivers corpse

 

driv3r remake but all the original bugs because people got too mad when they announced the were gonna remove them