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happygrowls

New Saints Row Game Confirmed

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feckyerlife
2 hours ago, Lock n' Stock said:

The thing that turned me away from AoM more than anything was it's lack of customisation and it's confused identity over whenever it was a SR game or not.

you know AoM is bad when its free to play on xbox game pass

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D9fred95
4 hours ago, Lock n' Stock said:

The thing that turned me away from AoM more than anything was it's lack of customisation and it's confused identity over whenever it was a SR game or not.

Pretty much what happened.

 

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Commander S
On 3/4/2019 at 1:55 PM, Jason said:

Agents of Mayhem happened I think. Guess they wanted a change of scenery after years of making SR games. It could have worked if they hadn't forgotten why people loved the SR games.

 

 

Yeah - because on the one hand, it seemed to be Volition's new signature thing, letting them draw a line under Saints Row and getting them away from being 'typecast' by that series.

 

...while on the other, they sure did want to sell it on Saints Row tie-ins and cameos, huh? :turn: Say what you will about Bungie and Destiny, but at least when they decided to do something distinctly 'not Halo', they didn't then try to cash in on Halo nostalgia at the same time. Either move on, or don't.

 

And overall, I just found AoM kinda muddled - another GTA-ish open world, but with more Crackdown-ish traversal (except SR IV already did that...) obvious pop culture nods like Sunset Overdrive (...and also SR IV, again...), but with a very 'hero shooter' aesthetic that was trying to do the Overwatch thing (although IMO, the less memorable villain designs felt closer to Battleborn, which isn't the most flattering comparison, is it?).

 

On top of that, even more than SR IV (with the majority of assets reused from SR III, and plenty of areas where you could see that Volition was trying to squeeze creative solutions out of budget constraints) and Gat out of Hell, I just got the feeling AoM was writing THQ-level cheques that Deep Silver couldn't cash. For one thing, unlockable cosmetic skins that are just palette-swaps with vague nods to comicbook/cartoon characters (but not actual new models, like epic/legendary Overwatch skins), and more obviously, how the cutscenes went from full in-engine animations, to 2D animation, to semi-animated 'motion comics' to ...narration over static comic panels.

 

It just screamed "oops - we thought we had more money available!" to me - at least with something like Crackdown 3, they went with motion comics throughout. It's not that I have a problem with lower-budget games with more modest production values (not at all!) - again, Crackdown 3 was fun, IMO, and Saints Row IV was inventive enough that it didn't just feel like a glorified SR III expansion. It's more that Volition was seemingly aiming at something more ambitious in scope and scale, but then had to make compromises further into development - and so instead of the game being designed to get as much as possible out of what resources they had, the end result feels weirdly (but not surprisingly) inconsistent.

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Jason
Posted (edited)

Saints Row jumped the shark for me with SR4 (in truth it started with SR3 but that still had some SR1-2 things about it) but I played all four mainline games and I enjoyed them all cause the co-op was great and the customisation was great. Those two things were what made Volition's games great to me, so when they abandoned literally all of that in Agents of Mayhem it was a bit... uhh.. puzzling. To make matters worse they decided to try and cash in on the hero genre and to make those matters even worse they released the game pretty much at the end of the hero craze.

 

Would love to know their thinking behind those decisions to be honest. It's like they had no idea why people liked the Saints Row games.

Edited by Jason

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Commander S

Me, I find I wind up applying the 'Star Trek movies rule' to Saints Row - i.e., I like the even-numbered ones more. Saints Row 2 might be the gold standard for Saints Row titles - it's more fleshed-out than 1, but the writing isn't quite as knowingly 'wink-wink, nudge-nudge'/"see what we did there?" as III.

 

Meanwhile, IV definitely felt like the series going out with a bang - after III dialled up the quirkiness and referential humour at the expense of something more GTA-like, SR IV at least did something interesting with it, and ended up with some of the cleverest comedy writing I've ever seen in a game, as well as being surprisingly meta. To paraphrase Chris Franklin, compared to certain open-world games that want you to think they're smarter than they actually are, SR IV is a smart game that really wants you to believe that it's simply dumb fun (on the surface, at least...).

 

Thing is, though, at best, that's a trick you can only pull off once - because there's nowhere else to go afterwards. And the problem with it is that you risk a lot of people missing the layers of sharp thematic stuff, and just looking at the game as "wow, Saints Row has gone completely wacky!". Not to mention that, if you didn't like that about III, you really aren't going to like alien invasions/Matrix homages in IV...

 

 

Come to think of it, that's another problem I had with AoM: the writing felt a bit too much like SR III's "heh - didja get it, huh, huh?" references-for-the-sake-of-references humour, which felt like a backwards step after IV. In an ideal world, I wouldn't mind a SR sequel/reboot that reset the tone/realism to the 'grounded but slightly off-kilter' level of SR 2, but with writing as witty and carefully constructed as some of the memorable gags and turns in IV. Not sure if that's wishing for something too specific, there...

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Jason

I never did play AoM but the writing problem you're describing reminds me of Borderlands 1 and 2. BL1's writing was fantastic, funny, original, but then BL2 came out and it was full of years old memes, unoriginal jokes and also those cheap "did ya get it?" jokes. It really sorta killed the story and dialogue in BL2, cause it felt like they didn't get what made BL1's writing so good at all.

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Commander S

Like I say, that's why SR III never really worked for me - for instance, you've got stuff like Mayor Burt Reynolds, where the only point of the gag seems to be "look - we've got Burt Reynolds in our game, because he's a real person in our game, and that's just so wacky of us!".

 

Compare that to the 'Keith David as Keith David' thing in IV, which looks like something that superficial, but then winds up tying in with all the They Live* things baked into the level design, as well as a clever slow-burn joke built around SR 1, and a plot detail that feels like an oversight in game design early on in the game, until you realise it's actually all been foreshadowing (confirmed by the audio logs - either you get more of a hint if you collect them straight away, or it's "oh, the writing was on the wall the whole time!" if you get them after the fact), culminating in another surprise cameo to cap it all off in a way that's both satisfying and really funny.

 

Oh, and come to think of it:

 

Spoiler

*When you first start out in the simulation, the riff is on Pleasantville - then it switches to The Matrix with a They Live topping, and stays well and truly in that mode for the rest of the prologue, right down to the 'emerging from the pod naked and covered in goop' bit. Then there's a quick homage to Mass Effect 2 when you leap to the ship and get rescued (almost shot-for-shot!), and everything finishes with the sudden shocking destruction of Earth.

 

It's a whole lot to take in at once - and then you get the usual 'so far, so typical videogame' achievement/trophy pop-up to mark the end of the chapter, and the name is "Don't Panic!". Yeah, okay - it's all been disorientating, all the stuff we know and love from the previous games is presumed to be no more, and it's a lot to take in, but sure, I'll try to keep calm...

 

...oh, wait - destruction of Earth, just like in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. "Don't Panic!". :turn:

 

You sly, sly bastards - got everyone distracted with by waving all that shiny Matrix/They Live 'reality isn't real, free your mind' stuff at us with the left hand, that we didn't see the right hand coming to bop us on the nose with a rolled-up literary reference. Well played, SR IV - well played. :p

 

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luisniko
Posted (edited)

This thread seems like just repeating itself in a cycle that the title now is even misleading.

 

- Saints Row is Steve Jaros' product. It's THQ's IP. Steve Jaros is no longer with Volition.

- Saints Row, as a series, was planned all the way until it reached the end in GOoH, according to IdolNinja, a modder guy who was hired as Volition's PR and mod support person. Personally, I think he's kind of a jerkoff and that statement about SR was bullsh*t; a fast 'shut-up' method. But he's official, I'm not. He knows and I don't. So that's that. Talk the otherwise would be as good as talking clueless.

- Steve Jaros agreed to a SJW figure and thought Saints Row (3) was sexist because they call 'Ho' to prostitutes

- Volition can't do another SR without Steve Jaros' recipe but still wanted to give the thirsty SR fans some love while introducing a whole new title. So they created AoM that is based on GOoH's retcon ending where Kinzie and Matt works in FBI and Gat as a police and they know about Persephone

- SR fans claimed AoM is SR5 and then disappointed themselves that it isn't SR5 and not like Saints Row

- Volition already told them that this is a different saga, taking place and time after GOoH retcon ending, up to the point Volition puts 'NOT SAINTS ROW' in a trailer

- SR fans have thick skull and just like to repeat themselves, so they go back to [SR fans claimed AoM is SR5 and then disappointed themselves that it isn't SR5 and not like Saints Row] and made AoM as the fresh new punching bag - until today.

- The only SR hints and throwbacks in AoM are the Fleur de Lis, Gat, Kinzie, Oleg, Pierce, and each of the agent's car name. Pierce's introduction scene is a retcon of himself as a businessman who unified Stilwater gangs. He also thinks that Gat looks familiar. He also said that he once dreamed about breaking a casino owned by a Japanese biker gang. Another character, Scheherazade has ability to look into another dimension and told Pierce from time to time that he used to be a gang member, an energy drink star, and fought a huge energy drink can.

- If you read the point above, you pretty much have learned 90% of Saints Row hints in AoM, making you the one who insist to be confused about AoM's identity. I'm aware saying "AoM is confused whether it's SR or not" is a cool thing to say. But it's obviously not.

 

- Borderlands 1 didn't really have a story. It's a barebone tale of 4 Vault Hunters chasing a Vault in bandit-infested Pandora rushing against the Crimson Lance and the corrupt Atlas

- Borderlands 2 was the one who went into full-fledged drama, seamlessly paving under and stacking over the Borderlands 1 lore and characters, even those who were invisible.

- The lore got expanded more and you got a couple of novel for Borderlands

- And that finally popped Borderlands TPS, which was the actual meme-infested Borderlands and also as an outlet to please some 'sensitive' people who were complaining over Borderlands 2 fix over Axton's voice line bug that made him sound like a bisexual character.

Edited by luisniko

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D9fred95
17 hours ago, luisniko said:

- Saints Row, as a series, was planned all the way until it reached the end in GOoH

Clearly IdolNinja isn't telling the whole truth considering that the entire plot of SR2 was based on a fluke: The mocap actors for the final cutscene of SR were supposed to have Julius running down an alleyway, presumably escaping police custody, but the mocap actors didn't want to run around so instead the had Julius watch the yacht instead. This then lead into SR2 where it's revealed Julius tried to kill the player. They changed the plot because people were lazy and yet they claim SR was planned from SR1 to GOoH? Yeah right.

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Ivan1997GTA
Posted (edited)
On 3/7/2019 at 12:42 AM, Commander S said:

Like I say, that's why SR III never really worked for me - for instance, you've got stuff like Mayor Burt Reynolds, where the only point of the gag seems to be "look - we've got Burt Reynolds in our game, because he's a real person in our game, and that's just so wacky of us!".

Well, there is one reference to Reynolds in SRTT: if you call him as a homie, he arrives in a custom Phoenix styled after the Pontiac Firebird Trans-AM featured in Smokey and the Bandit.

 

But, yeah, that one was a missed opportunity. Why couldn't he have arrived in the car during one of the story missions? Or, heck, even have it offered as a vehicle theft target?

Edited by Ivan1997GTA

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Willy A. Jeep

Gosh, after all this time, I'd be happy with a total refresh for the series. As much as I'd be super happy to have a Saints Row or Saints Row 2 remaster with Saints Row 3/4 graphics, I think the best route would be to basically dump everything the previous installments had and be fresh. Aside from the obvious staleness of just playing the same game again but with a different story, the gameplay of the Saints Row series was looking pretty dated by SR3. SR4 did try to freshen things up with the super powers, but... it felt like the same game I'd been playing since 2006, just with less driving and more running. Volition needs to step back and see what players want, what they need, and what's possible (because obviously they've had some ambition that was just too great for reality). It can't be a straight GTA clone, but it could be something to take up the empty spot that GTA's current singleplayer story absence has left, and it could be fun. Casual-compatible gameplay, plenty of world to explore, hidden cabbits, and no more helicopter segments. It'll be great.

 

That said, I'm still surprised Red Faction was left to die after Armageddon. I've never played any of the series, but from what I've heard, people really liked the original and Guerrilla, and I consistently see people who want to be able to totally destroy buildings in... any open world game that comes along. Lot of potential there, I think, and the rights are back in place as Volition is under THQ Nordic. Of course, a Saints Row game with Red Faction destruction physics could be something to behold...

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