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happygrowls

New Saints Row Game Confirmed

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Lock n' Stock

Never bothered with Agents of Mayhem, there simply just wasn't anything there for me. The lack of customisation and the weird art-style was off-putting to say the least.

 

It's a shame really, Volition seemed to be working their way up the open-world developer ladder fairly quickly with the first two Saints Rows and Red Faction: Guerrilla. I guess somewhere along the way they just lost it. Even if Saints Row 3 and 4 were guilty pleasures of mine, many of the design choices in those left alot to be desired.

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Hmmm nice bike

I honestly do think that a lot of what happened had to do with THQ going to sh*t. Not to take all of the blame completely off some of their more questionable design choices from Volition, but it's pretty evident that when THQ first started experiencing financial struggles, they desperately wanted some of the top titles to be released as fast as possible just to make them more money in a short amount of time. Not a good call though. Saints Row and Red Faction could have been like their GTA and Red Dead had things gone differently.

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luisniko

Yea. This Steve Jaros guy. He made and destroyed Saints Row.

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Hmmm nice bike

It's kind of surprising that Jaros was one of the lead writers for every game. I kind of wonder how he really felt about the changes being made to the series. Would he have had much say in what to do if the bosses were telling him to go crazier?

 

Of course, I think his biggest mistakes overall were made between SR2 and SR3. The endings of SR2 and its DLC were basically setting the stage for a completely different SR3 than what we ended up with, and fans were disappointed when this wasn't even acknowledged. By SR3, they completely forgot about a previously unfinished story arc involving an antagonist from 2. I think 3 also went through several rewrites during development (which partly explains why, during the bridge collapse scene, the characters refer to the attack being at "Johnny's funeral" even though they're in the river after being stuck in traffic on their way to the funeral, apparently the attack was originally at their old church in Stilwater before they changed it to a bridge).

Edited by Hmmm nice bike

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thatstupidbug

It's kind of surprising that Jaros was one of the lead writers for every game. I kind of wonder how he really felt about the changes being made to the series. Would he have had much say in what to do if the bosses were telling him to go crazier?

 

Of course, I think his biggest mistakes overall were made between SR2 and SR3. The endings of SR2 and its DLC were basically setting the stage for a completely different SR3 than what we ended up with, and fans were disappointed when this wasn't even acknowledged. By SR3, they completely forgot about a previously unfinished story arc involving an antagonist from 2. I think 3 also went through several rewrites during development (which partly explains why, during the bridge collapse scene, the characters refer to the attack being at "Johnny's funeral" even though they're in the river after being stuck in traffic on their way to the funeral, apparently the attack was originally at their old church in Stilwater before they changed it to a bridge).

SR writing was *** since SR1.

 

I saw a video once where the creators said that during development of SR1, the last cutscene was supposed to have julius running away, bloodied and in fear. Instead, the animators had a problem doing the scene, and instead of REDOING it, they went lazy and quickly animated julius watching an (invisible) wirst clock before the boat explodes.

 

The creator saw the scenes and... ran with it. "Well, I guess he IS the traitor, from now on".

thus the plot was written as it is by mistake and laziness.

 

So no, I haven't much fate in SR writing team.

Edited by thatstupidbug

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Noale

The writing was goofed so badly that they destroyed Earth. How silly of a writer do you have to be to write yourself into that corner? :lol: Now they have to retcon all of that.

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Darth Yokel

The writing was goofed so badly that they destroyed Earth. How silly of a writer do you have to be to write yourself into that corner? :lol: Now they have to retcon all of that.

Bioware had to abandon the galaxy because of their ME3 ending.

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CoolBean

No Steel Port. New city with some returning characters sure but it needs to feel fresh as well as fun even a little over the top.

 

Fall next year for release is my guess. Be nice to finally have a SR game fully made for this gen.

Edited by CoolBean

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Noale

 

The writing was goofed so badly that they destroyed Earth. How silly of a writer do you have to be to write yourself into that corner? :lol: Now they have to retcon all of that.

Bioware had to abandon the galaxy because of their ME3 ending.

 

 

ME3 at least had multiple endings, some of which spared life in the galaxy.

 

You have no choice when Earth goes kaboom in SR. One is not like the other in this case.

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Darth Yokel

 

 

The writing was goofed so badly that they destroyed Earth. How silly of a writer do you have to be to write yourself into that corner? :lol: Now they have to retcon all of that.

Bioware had to abandon the galaxy because of their ME3 ending.

 

 

ME3 at least had multiple endings, some of which spared life in the galaxy.

 

You have no choice when Earth goes kaboom in SR. One is not like the other in this case.

I know. My post was more about writers needlessly writing themselves into a corner.

Edited by Darth Yokel

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Noale

I don't think Bioware necessarily wrote themselves into a corner in ME3. The galaxy was still there after all. Everything you knew in that universe was still there, minus the destruction left by the you know what. Besides, didn't they have an intention to make Mass Effect a trilogy, thus ending with ME3? So if it seems like they wrote themselves into a corner, then at least it was intentional as a dramatic ending for the trilogy.

 

In SR, everything you knew went poof. If it wasn't in your little space ship, then bye bye.

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CoolBean

lol

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Lock n' Stock
Posted (edited)

Their creative director Steve Jaros left Volition for Valve back in 2014

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/15/volition-creative-director-steve-jaros-departs-for-valve

 

Holy sh*t I found this video

 

You can really feel their ambition there, but clearly by 3 they had let the success go to their head.

 

Just to say, one of the things I really loved about Saints Row 2 was how you could choose to go after all 3 gangs in a non-linear fashion, each one having it's own storyline. And this was eventually topped off with you up against the big bad itself (Ultor). You really got the feeling that you were taking sh*t over, which is one thing that makes a great open-world crime game.

 

On the other hand, 3 felt linear as hell in comparison, and shorter as well (even with using side-activities as missions to pad out the length). Even if they all operated as one, I do feel each of the Syndicate gangs could have had their own mission arcs, and STAG serving as a final "big bad" rather than just being shoved into the story when it felt convenient enough. I guess Volition was attempting to do a more straightforward narrative, but it instead felt like a jumbled mess full of unnecessary plot points (the zombie uprising). Trying to justify it as being "wacky" and "over-the-top" doesn't excuse it either, imo.

 

I also wasn't a fan of the new characters, Zimos was just an irritating gimmick character and Angel was boring as f*ck. I wouldn't have minded if they hadn't killed off Gat so early, but alas they did for whatever reason. SR4 may have attempted to retcon this, but by then the damage was already done.

Edited by Lock N' Stock

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luisniko
Posted (edited)

How can you complain about Zimos and Angel instead of that f*cking airplane that fell into an island and the whole residence turned into zombies? lol

 

That was like my total boner killer after laughing hard because of Zimos' autotuned talk and thinking STAG was the real sh*t to not be messed with.

Edited by luisniko

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D9fred95

SR writing was *** since SR1.

I saw a video once where the creators said that during development of SR1, the last cutscene was supposed to have julius running away, bloodied and in fear. Instead, the animators had a problem doing the scene, and instead of REDOING it, they went lazy and quickly animated julius watching an (invisible) wirst clock before the boat explodes.

 

The creator saw the scenes and... ran with it. "Well, I guess he IS the traitor, from now on".

thus the plot was written as it is by mistake and laziness.

 

So no, I haven't much fate in SR writing team.

 

I think the mocap guys were supposedly lazy a "don't want to chase that guy" so they just threw the whole checking his watch thing in at the last minute for closure. So yeah, lazy animators changed the direction of SR. We got a great sequel despite the laziness sure, but it seemed more like a fluke considering Volition's track record since then.

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Hmmm nice bike

Just to say, one of the things I really loved about Saints Row 2 was how you could choose to go after all 3 gangs in a non-linear fashion, each one having it's own storyline. And this was eventually topped off with you up against the big bad itself (Ultor). You really got the feeling that you were taking sh*t over, which is one thing that makes a great open-world crime game.

 

On the other hand, 3 felt linear as hell in comparison, and shorter as well (even with using side-activities as missions to pad out the length). Even if they all operated as one, I do feel each of the Syndicate gangs could have had their own mission arcs, and STAG serving as a final "big bad" rather than just being shoved into the story when it felt convenient enough. I guess Volition was attempting to do a more straightforward narrative, but it instead felt like a jumbled mess full of unnecessary plot points (the zombie uprising). Trying to justify it as being "wacky" and "over-the-top" doesn't excuse it either, imo.

 

I also wasn't a fan of the new characters, Zimos was just an irritating gimmick character and Angel was boring as f*ck. I wouldn't have minded if they hadn't killed off Gat so early, but alas they did for whatever reason. SR4 may have attempted to retcon this, but by then the damage was already done.

 

That's another thing that bugged me a bit about SR3. Removing the ability to pick who you go after first and in what order was what helped the game feel less linear, and it suited the game given how much could be customized (both with your character, and by SR2 being able to pick how your gang dresses and what cars they drive). Besides those side activities disguised as missions, the zombie thing also really felt like a pointless filler just to add more missions. I remember back when the game first came out and I did co-op with a friend, and even then we both agreed it was stupid and that the zombie craze felt like it had passed by that point already.

 

As it was found in this thread (where the information apparently comes from the official strategy guide), the story did in fact change multiple times during development. Looks like Gat was not going to be killed off, he would have had to have been rescued. And in another rewrite, depending on the choices you made at the end, either Shaundi would betray you and join STAG, or Gat would be revealed to have actually faked his death and joined the Syndicate.

 

No Steel Port. New city with some returning characters sure but it needs to feel fresh as well as fun even a little over the top.

Honestly, I wouldn't even mind a return to Stilwater (a much more updated Stilwater, obviously). That was a far better location than Steelport. Besides the fact that it was bigger and had more interiors, the city didn't look the same everywhere. You could actually tell what part of town you were in from the surroundings. Steelport's neighborhoods reused too many buildings and it all looked almost exactly the same. There was almost no variety in that city. Stilwater also felt more alive, NPCs actually did things, where as Steelport's pedestrians either walked around or stood in place most of the time. If they decide to create another new city, they really need to make sure that there's some variety. I get that they were trying to go for a Pittsburgh vibe with Steelport, but they really went overboard with trying to make everything look like sh*t.

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Noale

I'd find it hilarious to see you guys voice this criticism over at SaintsRowMods.com (or whatever it is).

 

Some of the guys there are so defensive of the series that they can't accept the awful path it's taken.

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Zello
Honestly, I wouldn't even mind a return to Stilwater (a much more updated Stilwater, obviously). That was a far better location than Steelport. Besides the fact that it was bigger and had more interiors, the city didn't look the same everywhere. You could actually tell what part of town you were in from the surroundings. Steelport's neighborhoods reused too many buildings and it all looked almost exactly the same. There was almost no variety in that city. Stilwater also felt more alive, NPCs actually did things, where as Steelport's pedestrians either walked around or stood in place most of the time. If they decide to create another new city, they really need to make sure that there's some variety. I get that they were trying to go for a Pittsburgh vibe with Steelport, but they really went overboard with trying to make everything look like sh*t.

They made a mistake with choosing a new city based on Pittsburgh they should have gone with a sunnier location like Miami

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Noale

A reimagined/updated Stilwater would be good fun.

 

Sort of like what Rockstar did with San Andreas > Los Santos.

 

Steelport was just drab.

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Hmmm nice bike

They made a mistake with choosing a new city based on Pittsburgh they should have gone with a sunnier location like Miami

I don't even think Pittsburgh is as drab in real life, but the game sure as hell made use of grey and brown everywhere. A Miami-based city would be cool, or a desert location based on Phoenix, Albuquerque, and Vegas. That's if they don't go back to Stilwater, which I wouldnt mind either at this point.

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CoolBean

A reimagined/updated Stilwater would be good fun.

 

Sort of like what Rockstar did with San Andreas > Los Santos.

 

Steelport was just drab.

 

I just hope it's not another game always set a night. Gets rather depressing after a while!

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happygrowls

 

A reimagined/updated Stilwater would be good fun.

 

Sort of like what Rockstar did with San Andreas > Los Santos.

 

Steelport was just drab.

 

I just hope it's not another game always set a night. Gets rather depressing after a while!

 

Apparently the reason Day/Night cycles were removed from SR3/4 was the screenspace reflections they used when it was raining at night.

 

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Lock n' Stock

Steelport was small as f*ck as well, barely larger than Liberty City in GTA III. The fact that they reused the exact same map layout in SR4 just adds insult to injury.

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1972

I also hate how it all had to be a dumb simulation in SR4. Why not simply try to save the earth from aliens? No, everything had to die and you had to be put in a computer. It sucks, makes it all so pointless.

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Ivan1997GTA

I also hate how it all had to be a dumb simulation in SR4. Why not simply try to save the earth from aliens? No, everything had to die and you had to be put in a computer. It sucks, makes it all so pointless.

That, or maybe the presidential campaign should have been its own game, and all of that alien BS shouldn't have been in the game altogether.

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Hmmm nice bike

I almost forgot about the lack of a day/night cycle. For a game released 10 years after III (which had a day/night cycle) and after SR1 and 2 had it, that was pathetic. Just goes to show how rushed it was.

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Jason
Posted (edited)

Apparently the reason Day/Night cycles were removed from SR3/4 was the screenspace reflections they used when it was raining at night.

 

 

Oh wow I didn't actually know the reasoning for that. That's just... dumb, on their part.

Edited by Jason

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Presidential

First two were fun and replayable games for me. Have seen the others in action at a friend's house and even tried to play around on them. Wasn't my idea of a good SR game. Some people seemed to enjoy it, though. Still, wasn't something I'm into.

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feckyerlife

 

They made a mistake with choosing a new city based on Pittsburgh they should have gone with a sunnier location like Miami

I don't even think Pittsburgh is as drab in real life, but the game sure as hell made use of grey and brown everywhere. A Miami-based city would be cool, or a desert location based on Phoenix, Albuquerque, and Vegas. That's if they don't go back to Stilwater, which I wouldnt mind either at this point.

 

Pittsburgh is one of the top 10 sh*thole cities in america

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