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TrinityCR

Is Liberty City a Better Place After the Games?

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TrinityCR

A bit of an odd topic but it's something I've been thinking about whilst muddling thoughts over in work and that is "is Liberty City a better place overall after the 100% completion of GTAIV, TBoGT and TLAD?"

Now obviously LC is still a crime ridden, corrupt, polluted mess of a city, but did our trios actions make it a better, safer place at the end of the trilogy than it was before the games started? I base this off the number of major criminals killed across the games including Vladimir Glebov, Mikhail Faustin, Dimitri Rascalov, Ray Bulgarin, Eddie Low, Jimmy Pegorino, Kim-Young Guk, Billy Grey etc. Other criminals were arrested across the games such as Elizabeta Torres and Niko single handily wiped out LC's entire most wanted list. Both the Angels of Death and Lost MC were in ruins as was the Faustin Family and possibly the Pegorino families. Oh and the city doesn't have a flying rat problem any more so...

Again, just and odd one really, but it makes you think. Have I missed any big things that improved the quality of LC across the run of the games?

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AmigaMix

If anything, it's worse off.

The deaths of so many major "players", in such a short amount of time, should lead to a massive power vacuum.

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TrinityCR

If anything, it's worse off.

The deaths of so many major "players", in such a short amount of time, should lead to a massive power vacuum.

That's a good point actually. Hadn't considered that. In that case who survives with enough power to make a play?

(I have no idea what happens in China Town Wars so any info on how that effect LC would be appreciated).

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Claude4Catalina

I've not played Chinatown Wars either but from what I've gathered it is set in 2009 and some of the gangs have shifted around, probably a design choice by developers but could serve as a ret-con to the aforementioned power vacuum caused by Niko, Johnny and Luis.

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Hmmm nice bike

More than likely, new criminal organizations started up, and if any of the old ones from 2008 didn't fall apart, then other people took them over from the guys who were killed. There may have been a power vacuum, but I can't imagine it being any worse than what it was during the events of IV, TLAD, and TBOGT.

 

Infrastructure-wise, the city is probably a little worse because, according to references in V, a Hurricane Sandy-type of natural disaster still happened and flooded parts of the city (like what happened in real life in New York), but I'm sure by now they cleaned it up and got the water out of the subways, tunnels, and low-lying areas of the city.

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Lock n' Stock

To be honest, I always thought about this. Isn't the annual murder count in NYC about 200-300 or something? Compare that to the events of GTA IV/EFLC, where hundreds (or even thousands) of people are offed in story missions alone by any given protagonist. Obviously it's video game logic in general, but it's still crazy to think that such a high body-count in such a short period would just be brushed aside without some sort of martial law declaration.

 

As for the city's condition afterwards, sure many major crime figures have been taken out (along with many generic mooks to go along with that), but of course that'll just mean others trying to take their place.

Edited by Lock N' Stock

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Hmmm nice bike

To be honest, I always thought about this. Isn't the annual murder count in NYC about 200-300 or something? Compare that to the events of GTA IV/EFLC, where hundreds (or even thousands) of people are offed in story missions alone by any given protagonist. Obviously it's video game logic in general, but it's still crazy to think that such a high body-count in such a short period would just be brushed aside without some sort of martial law declaration.

 

As for the city's condition afterwards, sure many major crime figures have been taken out (along with many generic mooks to go along with that), but of course that'll just mean others trying to take their place.

To be fair, the GTA body count of hundreds that you mention is sadly closer to that of my city than New York (almost 800 here in 2016, 650 last year), and no martial law is declared (just the president threatening to send in federal agents to deal with the crime, lol). NY has a very low murder rate and low crime rates for a city of its size (much lower than it was a few decades ago), so depending on how close of a representation LC is supposed to be of NYC, then it's much safer compared to other places out there.

 

Others would definitely take the place of whoever was killed in IV and EFLC, both major criminals and low level guys. I'd imagine that many of the Italian mafia families would have definitely taken a big hit. In 2008 they all seemed to be struggling and not as prominent as they used to be, by now they're probably mostly a memory and are either dealing in legitimate businesses or just outright disbanded. And with the major Russian operations being mostly taken out by Niko and Luis, Hove Beach would either see a new group of Russians, or another non-Russian Eastern European gang would try taking over.

Edited by Hmmm nice bike

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B Dawg

Kenny Petrovic takes over all Russian operations since he's the one that never gets f*cked with by the protagonists (apart from Niko killing his son).

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ClaudeIzABadAzz

Who knows what happened after the Games, but what we do know is that Stephanie still sucks like a Vacuum.

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Willy A. Jeep

After the events of the IV trio and Huang Lee, Liberty City was certainly worse-for-wear than it was prior. Sure, many of the criminal empires lay in ruin (and, as others point out, this in itself is a problem), but in the pursuit of that end, huge parts of the infrastructure and local scenery was destroyed, damaged, or otherwise altered. Not to mention the lingering impact of robberies, rampages through the streets in everything from an Esperanto to an APC, and stolen government property has upon the population.

 

In the long run? Yeah, there are some up sides to the removal of all the criminals that Niko, Johnny, Luis, and Huang brought about. Even with a power vacuum following, this means that their empires are easily broken down into smaller bickering factions, or that many former enforcers go elsewhere. This can cause violent conflict on the streets, sure, but it also means that there's nobody with a master plan to extort the whole city. No centralized power that can do whatever they like because any and all competition is absent.

 

Of course, with the unnamed Sandy-like storm mentioned in GTA V, the situation could be radically different. Things may have shifted even further from Chinatown Wars' 2009 representation, as large areas of Broker and Dukes would easily have been effected, and plenty of further changes have occured in real-world New York since 2008 and 2013.

 

Complicated question, the impact of a single man or a few men upon the world. The Fallout games have tried to tackle it since 1997, and they've got a pretty good idea going on, but I doubt if any of us could really figure that one out just mulling around on a forum for a few minutes, typing out a post.

Edited by Willy A. Jeep

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TrinityCR

I do wish we had gotten more info on LC from Packie in V. Even knowing why he moved to the other side of the country would give us some indication on the state of Liberty. Also on a side note do we know if something analogous to the 2008 Wall St. Crash happened in the HD universe? It wouldn't necessarily have had anything to do with the trios actions (though I cant imagine all that chaos would be good for business anyway).

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gtafaninwest

Likely LC is gentrifying all over. Police brutality is still rampant.

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Official General

In my GTA IV its worse. Gang violence is more rife after Playboy X's death; remnants of his gang are still loyal to him and are at war the other faction now under Dwayne's newly regained leadership. The NDDs are at war with Spanish Lords and Jamaican Posses as a result of Luis's drug wars. It's poppin' !!

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Hmmm nice bike

I do wish we had gotten more info on LC from Packie in V. Even knowing why he moved to the other side of the country would give us some indication on the state of Liberty. Also on a side note do we know if something analogous to the 2008 Wall St. Crash happened in the HD universe? It wouldn't necessarily have had anything to do with the trios actions (though I cant imagine all that chaos would be good for business anyway).

I think that might have happened in the HD universe. One of the Weazel News radio reports in EFLC mentions that a recession is ongoing or about to occur (this was written after the recession occurred, but it still takes place in 2008), and I'm pretty sure V makes a reference to something happening in LC that was supposed to be the GTA universe's version of the Occupy Wall Street protests.

 

As far as Packie, I always figured that his mother probably died and we just simply never found out about it, and since he really had noone left in LC that he was close to (provided that the player picked 'Revenge'), he left. That and/or LC was already in the process of gentrifying and it simply became too expensive for him to live on his own there. He probably blew most of his bank heist money and I doubt random stickups would get him that much money to live nicely off of.

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