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CoolMods

Why do people consider "Deconstruction" a disturbing mission?

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CoolMods

I don't get it why people say that. I like the mission.

Edited by CoolMods

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Mattineu

Provably because you bury someone alive in f*cking cement.

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lil weasel

Carl murders a number of construction workers, only because they did the usual sexist banter. And for an unknown reason Suffocates the Boss after terrorizing him with the skiploader

A particularly Cruel murder.

 

Edit: However, It is obviously the intent of the Publisher to give a reason for the use of the Demolition Charges (more than the bank job) and the skill of driving the SkipLoader (which will be used later). Thus, the game would be less entertaining and shorter without it. 

It just happens to be sordid

Edited by lil weasel

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watersgta3

It's got something more to do with the fact that CJ buries someone alive for something as petty as saying that his sister looks like a hooker (something even Sweet pointed out). It contradicts CJ's personality of being "less violent" and "having more morals" as opposed to his predecessors. I mean it would be much more understandable if the workers had sexually harassed Kendl, then it would be much more justified. Not even Tommy has killed anyone for something as petty as that (outside of gameplay of course).

Edited by watersgta3

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lil weasel
On 2/5/2018 at 10:53 AM, Am Shaegar said:

Excuse me? Carl didn't intend to kill those workers, at all. That's not the mission objective. CJ was forced to use guns in self defense because those workers immediately start shooting at him.

Show me any example of a construction site where the workers carry guns?

No, you are not excused. You bring up a decent point. All construction sites I have worked at (as a Guard) Did Not Allow weapons.

So that brings up another point, Why are they?

It still leaves Carl's Psyco action, why Bury Alive the Foreman? It is still the most Violent and Cruel act in this game.

The obvious answer is **it is part of the game** to allow more control manipulations. It is just something to do.

Like

Spoiler

"disposing" of the cop and motorcycle later in the Quarry, it makes no practicle sense

 

Edited by lil weasel

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Journey_95

Because Carl shows what an inconsistent character he is and how Rockstar didn't put much effort into him. Him suddenly burying a foreman alive because he called his sister a hooker (even though she actually looks like one) is as OOC as it gets.

Its a pointless mission thats never mentioned again...


It's got something more to do with the fact that CJ buries someone alive for something as petty as saying that his sister looks like a hooker (something even Sweet pointed out). It contradicts CJ's personality of being "less violent" and "having more morals" as opposed to his predecessors. I mean it would be much more understandable if the workers had sexually harassed Kendl, then it would be much more justified. Not even Tommy has killed anyone for something as petty as that (outside of the storyline of course).

Tommy was a much more consistent character with clear goals in general.


At the time of playing this game in 2004, I didn't even realize that this mission could become such a massive sore spot for people in future. People are acting as if CJ is responsible for some grave human rights violations in this mission. I mean, Niko was involved in human trafficking, Tommy also did some of the worst crimes, including Trevor, Claude, and many others..but burying that foreman in cement seems much more worse than human trafficking, selling drugs, etc.

On one hand, I often read people complaining about why CJ didn't kill Catalina because for some reason "not killing a woman" = CJ a Busta/bitch or whatever, and on the other hand, if CJ tries to teach those bastards some manners who insulted a woman (her sister)..it makes the whole fanbase go crazy.

:lol: @ the hypocrisy.

No its the inconsistency thats the problem. CJ is a complete bitch around Catalina (most pathetic I have seen a protagonist act yet), yet when someone insults his sister he buries him alive? What the f*ck

 

Tommy and Niko do bad things but it makes sense for their characters.

 

I'm glad this became a "sore spot", just shows that people value consistent characters.

Edited by Journey_95

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BLADE_San_Andreas

I remember when my neighbor played this mission when he was young, i said "you just have to bury a toilet..."

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Official General

It was very cruel and unusual punishment for such an extremely minor and trivial infraction. It really is an extremely silly and poor showcase of writing in a certain part of SA's story.

Edited by Official General

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DirtCheap

Because it's undeniably stupid.

Despite GTA SA being my favourite GTA and CJ being one of my most favourite GTA protagonists, this is one of the only missions I dislike not due to difficulty, but due to it's stupidity.

 

So CJ decides to destroy a construction site after they say his sister dresses like a hooker and they are not far from wrong TBH. I mean, just look at how that hoodrat dresses. Had CJ destroyed the site and warned them not to insult her anymore, the mission would be understandable. But then CJ decides to bury a worker alive using a cement truck and a dozer. Like WTF were you thinking R*? It made no sense for CJ's character to do that and makes him look like a psychopath.

 

Like, honestly, what was R* smoking while creating this mission? It makes no sense whatsoever and honestly leaves a bad mark on CJ's character and is one of the stupidest missions in the entire franchise.

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American Venom

At the time of playing this game in 2004, I didn't even realize that this mission could become such a massive sore spot for people in future. People are acting as if CJ is responsible for some grave human rights violations in this mission. I mean, Niko was involved in human trafficking, Tommy also did some of the worst crimes, including Trevor, Claude, and many others..but burying that foreman in cement seems much more worse than human trafficking, selling drugs, etc.

 

On one hand, I often read people complaining about why CJ didn't kill Catalina because for some reason "not killing a woman" = CJ a Busta/bitch or whatever, and on the other hand, if CJ tries to teach those bastards some manners who insulted a woman (her sister)..it makes the whole fanbase go crazy.

 

:lol: @ the hypocrisy.

 

I haven't seen many people say that he should've killed Catalina. Only that he should've shown some more balls and stood up for himself instead of being walked over. He didn't need to kill her to do that.

 

Now with regards to this mission the reasoning is the biggest issue as far as I'm concerned. The foreman only insulted her. It doesn't matter whether she's his sister or not. Oh yeah and there's also the fact that he's only a foreman. Not a gang member or criminal of any kind which makes the act even more bizarre.

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Official General

Because it's undeniably stupid.

Despite GTA SA being my favourite GTA and CJ being one of my most favourite GTA protagonists, this is one of the only missions I dislike not due to difficulty, but due to it's stupidity.

 

So CJ decides to destroy a construction site after they say his sister dresses like a hooker and they are not far from wrong TBH. I mean, just look at how that hoodrat dresses. Had CJ destroyed the site and warned them not to insult her anymore, the mission would be understandable. But then CJ decides to bury a worker alive using a cement truck and a dozer. Like WTF were you thinking R*? It made no sense for CJ's character to do that and makes him look like a psychopath.

 

Like, honestly, what was R* smoking while creating this mission? It makes no sense whatsoever and honestly leaves a bad mark on CJ's character and is one of the stupidest missions in the entire franchise.

 

I also did not like it in the assassination missions where Tommy Vercetti kills a woman that did not do anything to him. He's instructed to kill her and not even told why, there is no visible reason for it. She pleads for her life, but he kills her, that was real bad too. Sometimes I just don't get Rockstar, its like they do these things purely for shock value, but it does get too excessive.

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watersgta3

 

Because it's undeniably stupid.

Despite GTA SA being my favourite GTA and CJ being one of my most favourite GTA protagonists, this is one of the only missions I dislike not due to difficulty, but due to it's stupidity.

 

So CJ decides to destroy a construction site after they say his sister dresses like a hooker and they are not far from wrong TBH. I mean, just look at how that hoodrat dresses. Had CJ destroyed the site and warned them not to insult her anymore, the mission would be understandable. But then CJ decides to bury a worker alive using a cement truck and a dozer. Like WTF were you thinking R*? It made no sense for CJ's character to do that and makes him look like a psychopath.

 

Like, honestly, what was R* smoking while creating this mission? It makes no sense whatsoever and honestly leaves a bad mark on CJ's character and is one of the stupidest missions in the entire franchise.

 

I also did not like it in the assassination missions where Tommy Vercetti kills a woman that did not do anything to him. He's instructed to kill her and not even told why, there is no visible reason for it. She pleads for her life, but he kills her, that was real bad too. Sometimes I just don't get Rockstar, its like they do these things purely for shock value, but it does get too excessive.

 

Well to be far with Tommy, those were just contract killings that are optional. So really, none of them are required to beat the story. But yeah, you got a point. The guy over the phone never really gave a reason why you should kill half the people you murder during those missions. So I always thought those missions were kind of pointless.

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anthony

I don't have any probem with this mission..some other protagonist did some similar things too and I'm okay with that.

 

You seem to forget that Carl is a criminal, like aaalllll the other GTA protagonist; he is a killer too. Do I need to state the obvious ? some criminal tend to hurt people just because of a glance or a bad word. And some, they do it without any reasons, just for the sake of it, because they like it.

 

There is nothing excessive in that, GTA protagonist are not good guys. This is the crime world, nothing is fair, there is no rules, mobsters, gangsters and yes even civilians.

 

Like Toni who blow up the Sindacco's brothel at the beginning of the game, the whole f*cking bulding exploded, the prostitutes and clients inside had nothing to do with it, as the civilians outside on the street who died too.

 

The way I see it, the contruction workers shoud have kept their mouth shut, you don't lack respect, because you never know what people are in front of you.

Edited by anthony

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watersgta3

I don't have any probem with this mission..some other protagonist did some similar things too and I'm okay with that.

 

You seem to forget that Carl is a criminal, like aaalllll the other GTA protagonist; he is a killer too. Do I need to state the obvious ? some criminal tend to hurt people just because of a glance or a bad word. And some, they do it without any reasons, just for the sake of it, because they like it.

 

There is nothing excessive in that, GTA protagonist are not good guys. This is the crime world, nothing is fair, there is no rules, mobsters, gangsters and yes even civilians.

 

Like Toni who blow up the Sindacco's brothel at the beginning of the game, the whole f*cking bulding exploded, the prostitutes and clients inside had nothing to do with it, as the civilians outside on the street who died too.

It's not the fact that he did it that upsets people. It's the fact that it's inconsistent to what the writers wrote him as. They wanted to write him as someone who we should sympathize with, but it's pretty hard to sympathize with someone who complains about how hard he has it when he does something as petty as this. The thing here is that CJ wasn't ordered to bury a foreman alive. He just did it just because the workers said Kendl looked like a hooker (which she really does). As I said before, it would be much more understandable had he just either given the workers a verbal reprimand or if they sexually harassed his sister. There's nothing wrong with the mission. It's just the way CJ was portrayed in the mission that made it seem sordid.

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watersgta3

Also, the way people are attacking Kendl, and passing comments over her dressing style, and issuing her a character certificate by calling all sorts of names, makes these people no different than those workers who were trying to do the same, willing to justify such acts of those men destroying the dignity if any woman by just looking at her dress and how she looks, but if a brother tries to protect his sister, these people expect him to give a verbal lecture.

Okay, now you're just getting presumptuous. Who has even attacked or insulting Kendl? All we said was that the workers weren't lying when they said Kendl looked like a hooker. Hell Sweet himself even called her out on that. You're gonna say he was the one attacking Kendl too? Also, protect his sister from what?! The workers didn't try to do anything to hurt or harass Kendl. They just simply said what Kendl looked like, and again, they're not exactly lying.

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The Coconut Kid

It never struck me as being particularly outrageous actually, no more so than the stomping of the biker in GTA V and more than a few things Tommy does in Vice City, and although I haven't played San Andreas in years I'm not of the opinion that it was that out of character for CJ at that point in the story.

 

If memory serves me correctly the "Deconstruction" mission takes place a few missions after CJ arrives in San Fierro having recently been kidnapped by corrupt police officers (who have tormented him and his family for years) and relocated to the remote area of the map which he likely has no familiarity with. His brother has just been seriously injured in a gang attack and is in a prison hospital somewhere facing a life sentence. He has just escaped a sexually submissive relationship with a psychopath (Hey, they wrote it...) and found out that the "garage" he won from her new boyfriend in a race is a dud. To top it all off, CRASH continue to harass him in his new city.

 

I'm sure there are a few events I have missed but it's fair to say CJ had a few "issues" going into this mission and the construction worker who calls Kendl a whore is simply his breaking point and a convenient one for the story at that. There isn't really anyone else around CJ for him to take his anger out on and get away with it.

 

Interestingly enough for me this mission seemed to mark the shift from an impulsive CJ who is willing to bury someone alive in concrete on a whim to someone who is more patient and methodical... just look at how he infiltrates and begins to take down the Loco Syndicate and the Da Nang Boys for Woozie. Would the CJ prior to this mission have been able to organise a casino heist? Something had to shift in the story... but it should have been done better than this mission.

 

Also, just as an aside, how are the events of this mission any different to the one in Vice City where you're dismembering innocent construction workers and security guards with the blades of an RC helicopter and then blowing up an entire building? Same mission different toy IMHO... if you ask me the real question is what do the writers at Rockstar have against us hard working laboring folk?

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anthony

 

Okay, now you're just getting presumptuous. Who has even attacked or insulting Kendl? All we said was that the workers weren't lying when they said Kendl looked like a hooker.

 

That's not the point; the point is, whore or not, she stay his sister; and Carl is f*cking killer, a dangerous character..and on top of what @The Coconut Kid said, that's why he did it.

Edited by anthony

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mde2

How anyone can justify murdering a bunch of construction workers then burying a foreman alive (to which it isn't even known if he did anything in the first place) because Kendl got her feelings hurt is beyond me really. I understand that from her perspective, dressing the way she wants and such then proceeding to get called a hooker is insulting but it does not justify literally massacring people doing their day job, the same as any other characters committing acts of domestic terrorism isn't justified with or without context.

 

By the way I wanna remind everyone that CJ cleared out the land and claimed it for himself. He says himself;

 

"I've been thinking about getting me (CJ) some new land anyway"

 

It's a bit of an insult to injury to not only kill everyone but then proceed to take over the land, and I don't think what the construction workers did even compares slightly to the level of retaliation CJ dishes out with or without the context given.

Edited by RetroMystic

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anthony

Did you guys suddenly forget what kind of people the protagonists are in GTA?

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mde2

Did you guys suddenly forget what kind of people the protagonists are in GTA?

 

Obviously. Would you care to elaborate?

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mde2

Nobody is justifying the act of burying the foreman alive. If anything, I find people justifying the workers for calling Kendl a hooker, or looking like a hooker, and other stuff that I have read in other threads in attacking her character. The point is, it doesn't throw him out of character, given the circumstances under which it has happened. Simple as that.

 

But CJ isn't portrayed as someone who is quite literally a psychopath nor was it ever established that CJ would go to the length he went too in order to accomplish minor goals. At what other point was CJ portrayed as an extremely violent psychopath (Ballas/Vagos war doesn't count for obvious reasons, being the fact it is a turf war)? If the writers actually tried to write this mission properly CJ should have, at most, used tactics to scare them off but instead he commits savage acts against people who were just trying to do their job.

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Dr. Schnellinger

Apparently only some north-american players go crazy about this, I didn't even noticed something wrong on the f- mission and I still not. I think using the flamethrower is more 'dramatic' than that 'cruel murder' you're talking about.

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mde2

That's what I am saying. The writers have already offered the context (as quoted above from the mission Sweet and Kendl) behind this "specific" act or crime committed by the protagonist. The game tries to show that CJ is emotionally sensitive towards Kendl, and GSF, in general. This is why CJ agrees to help OG LOC, despite the hesitance of killing the manager reflected in his words. It means CJ really, truly cares about his homies, and those that are dear to him, like his family. Simple as that.

 

By comparing him with a psychopath is like doing injustice to his character.

 

Yeah he's a little sensitive about his family that's why he MASSACRED a group of workers and their foreman. No normal person goes out and kills people who have physically/emotionally hurt a family member, so you either have to admit that

 

A. CJ is an inconsistent character (I know you won't choose this option due to your weird obsession with the game).

 

or

 

B. CJ is a legitimate psychopath with emotional issues

 

I don't see how CJ helping Jeffery applies in this situation either. How was killing a group of construction workers helping Kendl, Cesar or himself? Because Kendl's feelings won't get hurt? Oh wow, what a wonderful way for the writers to justify killing a bunch of innocent people.

 

I don't even mind the mission that much but your using some flawed logic here.

Edited by RetroMystic

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The Coconut Kid

How anyone can justify murdering a bunch of construction workers then burying a foreman alive (to which it isn't even known if he did anything in the first place) because Kendl got her feelings hurt is beyond me really. I understand that from her perspective, dressing the way she wants and such then proceeding to get called a hooker is insulting but it does not justify literally massacring people doing their day job, the same as any other characters committing acts of domestic terrorism isn't justified with or without context.

You don't actually have to murder a bunch of construction workers, though. Your instructions are to 'scare off the construction firm' and to do this you're told to destroy five portables and kill the foreman. It's completely up to the player to massacre people who are just doing their day job, if you can consider standing around all day and attempting to solicit hookers (or women they presume to be hookers) a day job, as it often is throughout the series. It's brutal on CJ's behalf to bury a foreman alive in order to claim some land, true, but let's not pretend that Niko didn't murder three union officials on a construction site so that Playboy X could 'impress' Yusef Amir, or that Tommy didn't blow up an entire building and its workforce just so Avery Carrington could build condos for rich people.

 

Also, I was actually unaware until now that CJ clears out the land in order to take it over himself. If I'm honest, that actually makes the mission (or at least the idea of it) a lot more appealing to me than when this was just a topic about CJ burying a guy alive. To me, he's just doing what every GTA protagonist past and present has done except for himself, which I find quite favorable. Looking at the "Deconstruction" mission it's basically just a rehash of "Demolition Man" except the motive for the mission is the protagonist's own gain, which I don't find disagreeable.

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Journey_95

Did you guys suddenly forget what kind of people the protagonists are in GTA?

The problem is the inconsistent part. CJ acts like a bitch around Catalina for an example, yet somehow buries a foreman because he insulted his sister. He never again does something as ruthless as he did in that mission and never behaves like that.

 

In general his character is supposed to be more "human" than previous protagonists but things like this just make him a messy character who Rockstar didn't write that well.

Edited by Journey_95

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mde2

 

How anyone can justify murdering a bunch of construction workers then burying a foreman alive (to which it isn't even known if he did anything in the first place) because Kendl got her feelings hurt is beyond me really. I understand that from her perspective, dressing the way she wants and such then proceeding to get called a hooker is insulting but it does not justify literally massacring people doing their day job, the same as any other characters committing acts of domestic terrorism isn't justified with or without context.

You don't actually have to murder a bunch of construction workers, though. Your instructions are to 'scare off the construction firm' and to do this you're told to destroy five portables and kill the foreman. It's completely up to the player to massacre people who are just doing their day job, if you can consider standing around all day and attempting to solicit hookers (or women they presume to be hookers) a day job, as it often is throughout the series. It's brutal on CJ's behalf to bury a foreman alive in order to claim some land, true, but let's not pretend that Niko didn't murder three union officials on a construction site so that Playboy X could 'impress' Yusef Amir, or that Tommy didn't blow up an entire building and its workforce just so Avery Carrington could build condos for rich people.

 

Most other missions that have hostiles/NPC's that may become hostiles required to kill as objectives either but out of instinct I'd say 80% of players probably killed all of the construction site workers because they become a pest if you don't. If one wants to say to themself "because the game doesn't explicitly tell you to kill anyone (not including the foreman obviously) so canonically CJ didn't kill anyone on the construction site" I'd say that's completely fair and to a certain extent one who says that is right, but that entire point is debatable by itself, the point at the end of the day is that nothing can really justify burying some poor bloke alive however most people in this thread attest to how OTT that is. My problem is with the people here saying that it isn't inconsistent and CJ was doing it for the greater good.

 

Also, I was actually unaware until now that CJ clears out the land in order to take it over himself. If I'm honest, that actually makes the mission (or at least the idea of it) a lot more appealing to me than when this was just a topic about CJ burying a guy alive. To me, he's just doing what every GTA protagonist past and present has done except for himself, which I find quite favorable. Looking at the "Deconstruction" mission it's basically just a rehash of "Demolition Man" except the motive for the mission is the protagonist's own gain, which I don't find disagreeable.

 

Given that context it makes the mission a little more bearable, but from a writing perspective it's still an odd choice to have CJ burying the foreman instead of just taking out whoever actually owns the land in the first place and letting the foreman, say, do his thing and continue to build the yard. Might not be the best compromise but it's still better than what we got. But most people are debating this from the context of it being for his sister.

Edited by RetroMystic

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Patrik2000_CZ

 

I don't have any proble​m with this mission..some other protagonist did some similar things too and I'm okay with that.

As anthony wrote this back here, I must say that CJ burying someone in cement isn't as disgusting as The Protagonist in SR2. It doesn't make sense that I'm talking about Saints Row here, but the cutscene where you bury Shogo with Gat is more disgusting, because when you hear someone screaming that his pants are full of sh*t, it isn't that frustrating as when you hear someone scream for mercy to just kill them, not to bury them..... So this mission is still better than the SR2's Rest in Peace.

Edited by Patrik2000_CZ

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mde2

 

 

I don't have any proble​m with this mission..some other protagonist did some similar things too and I'm okay with that.

 

It doesn't make sense that I'm talking about Saints Row here,

 

No it doesn't so why say it doesn't then proceed to do it anyway?

 

 

but the cutscene where you bury Shogo with Gat is more disgusting, because when you hear someone screaming that his pants are full of sh*t, it isn't that frustrating as when you hear someone scream for mercy to just kill them, not to bury them..... So this mission is still better than the SR2's Rest in Peace.

 

The thing is, both the Boss AND Gat in SR2 are written and portrayed as legitmate psychopaths.

 

Besides, unlike Kendl getting her oh so precious feelings hurt, Gat buries Shogo Akuji due to the fact he ordered the hit on Gat which ended up getting his wife (Aisha) killed, THEN Shogo had the audacity to rock up at her funeral and attempted to assassinate both the Boss and Gat at the same time.

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anthony

No normal person goes out and kills people who have physically/emotionally hurt a family member

Carl is not what you can call "a normal" person, how many people did he killed prior to this mission anyway ?

 

How was killing a group of construction workers helping Kendl, Cesar or himself?

He took the land.

 

But CJ isn't portrayed as someone who is quite literally a psychopath

Carl can have feelings for peoples so he is not a psychopath, he is more like a sociopath. Edited by anthony

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lil weasel
watersgta3 & Journey_95

A reminder, keep to the topic.

And mind the Huge Quote Trains.

Edited by lil weasel

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