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DOUGL4S1

Random changes to the map as we progress through the story?

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DOUGL4S1

It's not very uncommon in GTA games for parts of the map to change forever when we complete certain missions. Some, like Bomb Da Base II, Trojan Voodoo, Yay Ka-Boom-Boom, Rigged to Blow and Crystal Maze focus around the player destroying certain buildings (and a ship), and they will stay destroyed for the rest of their games.

 

However, parts of the map with significant changes without the player's involvement are still quite rare. The biggest one I can remember is Callaham Bridge, that is under construction in LCS, and is completed as we progress through the game, and is under repairs in III, and is completed when we progress through the game. Why can't more parts of the map have the same special treatment?

 

The real world around us is always changing, but some parts of GTA worlds just feel kinda dead, as in they don't make progress. Take construction sites as an example, where you can clearly see workers doing their job, but the place stays the same from begining to end. Would be cool if, with each mission or sets of missions, said construction site's model was updated to a more complete state until eventually it becomes a complete house/building. The same can apply for lots of other stuff: Abandoned buildings being demolished, road construction appearing and disappearing, props changing places, buildings changing colors, 'For Lease' buildings being bought and becoming stores (and vice-versa), ships arriving and leaving ports, etc.

 

A pro to this would be more places to explore, as you'd get a different experience with each mission passed, and the feel of an alive world, where everything is subject to change,just like our own world. It would also make players more excited to complete missions to see the map progress and explore. As for cons, we'd have models taking space in the files only to be used for a short while, and it would take significantly longer to program and test for glitches.

 

Toughts?

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Algonquin Assassin

This would be cool. Truthfully whilst I didnt care so much about using the amusement park in GTA IV it still wouldve been nice if it eventually got reopened.

 

There was no evidence other than a bit of roadwork it was being worked on. Also the casino in GTA V that seems to have adopted Agents coming soon tagline.

 

It would create a feeling of a persistent world of change which would be refreshing.

Edited by Algonquin Assassin

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RedDagger

For lots of unique buildings with massive changes it'd be kinda lame, since any cool things you could do with the building at the start of the game wouldn't be possible at the end, and most people wouldn't even notice the changes.

 

What would be kinda nice would be if the changes were to non-unique buildings, and take space over a short amount of time. Say you have a row of houses that are all pretty identical, you could have it so that a couple of them at a time have scaffolding, and when that gets "completed" a bit later a different random one gets scaffolding. The same could be applied to things like small roadworks, utility maintenance, or extend it to other random situations like skips, window washing, fires etc. so that the map is slightly different each time you play, but not enough that it massively changes the skyline or how you can play around buildings.

 

I like the idea of having the map change somewhat to make the world alive, but permanent large changes don't really feel like the best solution imo. Smaller, temporary ones would be ace though.

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Sleepwalking

I agree with this idea.

 

GTAO moved to 2017 and the casino is not still opened, that f*cking construction is never changed a bit even though all these hard workers.

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confederatestatesgta

yea it would be very cool to see the world changing constantly. like how gta 5 has all those construction places. and yet nothing ever changes to them. its even been confirmed that gta o has progressed time. since agent 14 said its 2017. but yet nothing new has happened to those sites. its so weird. but i know it would be a lot of work for rockstar to do constantly.

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Am Shaegar

Hmm.. Not really as appealing to me, than experiencing the changes outside the buildings and structures, like the change that occur between the missions Doberman and The Green Sabre, where you lose all the territories for story purposes, the Loco Syndicate drug courier missions begin post Ballas takeover of Grove Street, The Riots post LV, etc, including the changes that occur during GTA III as you progress into the story.

This is something that brings not only more interesting surprises and twists making the story more engaging than just driving from point A to point B running errands for the Mafia during the entire 90+ boring story missions w/o any "impact" felt on the map or the consequences of your decisions.

You murder majority of the criminals and Liberty city feels like nothing happened, nor anybody remembers that you even exist.

 

So, I prefer more dynamic events running in the background than watching some construction site, or any structure in the game world in work in progress mode, like why should I even care about them?

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RetroMystic

Hmm.. Not really as appealing to me, than experiencing the changes outside the buildings and structures, like the change that occur between the missions Doberman and The Green Sabre, where you lose all the territories for story purposes, the Loco Syndicate drug courier missions begin post Ballas takeover of Grove Street, The Riots post LV, etc, including the changes that occur during GTA III as you progress into the story.

This is something that brings not only more interesting surprises and twists making the story more engaging than just driving from point A to point B running errands for the Mafia during the entire 90+ boring story missions w/o any "impact" felt on the map or the consequences of your decisions.

You murder majority of the criminals and Liberty city feels like nothing happened, nor anybody remembers that you even exist.

 

So, I prefer more dynamic events running in the background than watching some construction site, or any structure in the game world in work in progress mode, like why should I even care about them?

 

That entire post was an excuse to bash GTA III and put GTA:SA on a pedestal and obsess over it yet again.

 

OT: I think dynamic map changes are cool when you notice them, and if they don't use up a lot of resources then R* should definitely do it however I wouldn't want them to use precious development time on something as trivial as minor or in some cases major changes to buildings and other areas of the map that have no interaction otherwise. Changes to the map due to story missions and such should definitely occur again, like when you go and blow something up because why not?

Edited by RetroMystic

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Am Shaegar

That entire post was an excuse to bash GTA III and put GTA:SA on a pedestal and obsess over it yet again.

How?

I am talking about how I prefer the changes that happened during III over IV's LC. Why can't I talk about it? Why don't you mind your own business, instead of derailing threads by quoting my posts? Do you want me to report your obessesion over what I post?

 

@ topic - I don't recall having similar (or better) experiences in HD game worlds with changes that happens in both III and SA's game world. Its what I would like to return than watching changes happening to the buildings, structures, etc (as listed by OP) because it obviously makes the story progression more meaningful for the choices that the protagonists made, or certain turn of events as the direct outcome of your actions.

 

Watching and waiting a structure to either complete, or unlock at a certain point in the story, doesn't sound as appealing as facing the dangers from the gangs/groups now turning hostile towards the protagonist as a consequence to the decisions made during the story.

Edited by Am Shaegar

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RetroMystic

 

 

 

That entire post was an excuse to bash GTA III and put GTA:SA on a pedestal and obsess over it yet again.

How?
I am talking about how I prefer the changes that happened during III over IV's LC. Why can't I talk about it? Why don't you mind your own business, instead of derailing threads by quoting my posts? Do you want me to report your obessesion over what I post?

@ topic - I don't recall having similar (or better) experiences in HD game worlds with changes that happens in both III and SA's game world. Its what I would like to return than watching changes happening to the buildings, structures, etc (as listed by OP) because it obviously makes the story progression more meaningful for the choices that the protagonists made, or certain turn of events as the direct outcome of your actions.

Watching and waiting a structure to either complete, or unlock at a certain point in the story, doesn't sound as appealing as facing the dangers from the gangs/groups now turning hostile towards the protagonist as a consequence to the decisions made during the story.

 

 

 

 

Because OP asked people's opinions on world changes not in-game events which to which there is a difference then you start going on tangents about "90+ boring story missions" and such.

 

Once you've typed out what you want to say and hit post, your comments regarding a particular subject are public and subjected to criticism/debate so no I won't "mind my business" on a discussion forum nor am I actively searching for your posts which is what you're trying to imply and I doubt reporting me for opening a dialogue is really a mature thing to do and it's silly to even suggest such a thing. Sorry bud but this isn't a safe-space for you to have an echo-chamber of one unanimous opinion

 

OT: I have nothing else to say really, but thinking more about the subject at hand I think it comes down to how Rockstar wants to reward their observant players/explorers. I could definitely see keen-eyed players picking out things in the environment that change but for the majority, unfortunately I think they simply don't care and it does cost much development time to have constant world changing. On one's first playthrough it would be a cool thing to catch seeing a building being developed or something but on repeated playthroughs more and more people will start thinking to themselves "R* wasted development time on this?" unless the devs were to somehow make it as though on repeated playthroughs buildings wouldn't develop the same way (i.e on your last playthrough a block of free land develops into an apartment complex, but on your current playthrough it develops into a restaurant or something) but I doubt it's possible, especially on the scale of GTA where the open-world and in turn, the technology it's running on is pushed to its limits as we've seen historically in the past from games like III and V.

 

Then you have the whole building interiors conundrum. Would I personally prefer dynamic world-changing to having lots of detailed interiors? To put it bluntly, no. I'd much rather see a focus on how big R* can make a city that feels alive while at the same time having a fair amount of interiors as opposed to a smaller city (as a compromise to having it large because constant world changing) without many interiors that acts as a backdrop you play around in instead of a world you're a part of.

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Am Shaegar

your comments regarding a particular subject are public and subjected to criticism/debate

What exactly were you criticising? How was I bashing III? You have No answers. Because you made a mistake in understanding my post. Instead of admitting the mistake and correcting yourself, once again you are wasting time (typical) by using straw man arguments.

If my comments are subject to criticism, then where is it? You are making personal attacks under the guise of having a criticism by quoting a long post, then add nothing for having an interesting "dialgue" to begin with.

 

@ topic - I wouldn't mind having certain places inaccessible for story purposes initially, and available for the rest of the game later, after unlocking it. But, I still don't find a strong enough reason to implement something that the topic is trying to suggest. Having more dynamic changes in the world that could directly either benefit or punish the players based on their actions, or decisions is something adds much more to the gameplay than some work in progress site/building.

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RetroMystic

Sure buddy. I'm making straw man arguments meanwhile you accuse me of personally attacking you for calling out your attempt to bash GTA:3 in a thread where it's not even relevant and I'm beginning to think you were genuinely trying to bait.

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ArmyRaidFail404

^ Jeez guys...calm the f*ck down :D

 

I have to admit that it would be ambitious...but Rockstar loves ambition anyways so it's gonna get the go ahead. I personally entertain the idea of dynamic changes to the map. Imagine having flat parklands or something, and then a big music festival is built on top of it, only to find a week later that it's all been packed up? It would actually give you a reason to listen to Weazel News, just so you can find out about all the things that happen to the world that are not as a result of your actions.

 

In response to some comments made it is incredibly boring to see the consequences of your actions in game. It's predictable. You kill a bunch of high ranking gang members in a few missions, of course that gang is gonna try to kill you in free roam. I wanna see the consequences of other people's work. Things that I have no control over, because it's much more interesting to see how the world interacts without me then to be led on a linear journey that everyone will experience first hand.

 

I liked how they did this in GTA IV with the diamonds. You see that they are lost in the garbage, but then you read a news story that says they ended up with some homeless guy (if you play EFLC you find out that was because of Luis). When I stumbled upon that I found it to be really cool, to see that the world operated without me. That the world could change in a such way when my character (Niko) decides to give up looking for these diamonds and continue on his own path.

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Am Shaegar

your attempt to bash GTA:3

The fact that you fail to understand that GTA 3 does not have "90+ story missions" itself proves that you are wrong in assuming that I'm bashing III, and furthermore, you are being blatantly dishonest about it, as well. So, it seems more like you are the one baiting here.

 

@ topic - I thought the dynamic events also play a role, if we're talking about the random changes to the map as the player progress through the story. Don't riots in SA reflect a change in the map through angry citizens? I am extending the idea beyond the buildings, etc on the map. If we can combine both then it'd make it more interesting to visit certain parts of the areas that can be scripted to reflect a lot of changes beyond what SA did, and III through the gang hostility system.

Simply limiting the potential of the changes on certain portions of the map seems like a "wasted potential" when the players may not even notice those changes in the game, or simply overlook after enough playthroughs. By targeting the whole area and inlcuding several elements to form a number of random changes at a particular points in the story would make the story progression lot more engaging than a monotonous linear progression that has nothing interesting to offer outside the cutscenes.

 

That's how I feel about the topic at hand.

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Cheatz/Trickz

A GTA story/campaign typically takes place accross three or four months, I dont know what kind of significant changes you expect to see to a city in that kind of time.

Edited by Cheatz/Trickz

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Sleepwalking

Franklin's, Michael's and Trevor's safehouse interior content slightly changes as you progress through story.

 

They could bring this dynamic to city itself.

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DOUGL4S1

A GTA story/campaign typically takes place accross three or four months, I dont know what kind of significant changes you expect to see to a city in that kind of time.

I've seen entire buildings being built in 3 months.

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grope_4_that_date

Seasons would be neat, like Bully.

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