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Journey_95

Top 5 worst crimes of the series?

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Journey_95

So GTA protagonists do some pretty bad sh*t in the games.

 

What would be the worst crimes overall? Not just in terms of scale but also in general how "evil" it was.

Example: Toni hacking up Giovanni Casa and then delivering him to his own store as meat.

 

 

 

 

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Femme Fatale

5. CJ burying that one guy in cement for calling his sister a hoe.

 

4. Toni cutting up Giovanni Casa then delivering him as meat at his own store.

 

3. Donald Love and his cannibalism and necrophilia.

 

2. Toni becoming a domestic terrorist by blowing up a whole district, thus killing hundreds.

 

1. Rockstar abandoning their longtime SP fans to milk Online for their drug money.

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Typhus

In terms of what the protagonists do, I'd have to give it to Toni and blowing up Fort Staunton. He must have killed hundreds of completely innocent people, all to help a guy who ended up skipping town a few missions later. It does bug me a bit because it's played off as no big deal, and Toni doesn't even seem to give a sh*t or acknowledge what he did. It's things like that which is why fans, and even reviewers at the time, thought his character didn't work.

 

But in terms of other characters, Eddie Low "wins", considering he's a pedophile and necrophiliac.

Edited by Typhus

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Algonquin Assassin

1) CJ burying a random foreman alive for cat calling Kendl. What the f*ck?

 

2) CJ killing Madd Doggs manager and his innocent girlfriend. Disgusting.

 

3) CJ killing the drug dealer in Cleaning the hood when Ryder only needed to get a look at him. Why did he need to be killed?

 

4) Trevor killing Floyd and Debra.

 

5) Trevor torturing Mr K.

Edited by Algonquin Assassin

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Ohhh123r

1. Toni blew up Fort Staunton and killed lots of pedestrians and even collage students causes New Staunton Plaza construction began in 2000

 

2. CJ stealing the Green Goo

 

3. No Singleplayer DLC instead we got ruined Online DLC and Sh*tty Deluxo

 

4. Toni kills Casa and His meat delivered to his own store

 

5. Claude kills Salvatore after nearly betrayed Him with Cheetah with full of bomb

 

That's my opinion. I need to beer. *Drinks Rolling Rock beer*

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jaljax

GTAO

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Jack Lupino

1) Trevor kicking Johnnys skull repeatedly to kill him

 

2) Toni beheading pedestrians in the park with katana sword

 

3) Tommy stealing a tank from soldiers

 

4)CJ stealing jetpack and green goo from army

 

5)Claude blows up his girlfriend in a helicopter

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DOUGL4S1

5) CJ stealing a $60 million secret military project from a secret base and 'Green Goo' from a military train.

4) CJ blowing up a dam, possibly killing dozens of innocent workers and leaving millions without energy.

3) Rampages from the 3D universe.

2) Michael/Franklin/Lester blowing up the FIB building, possibly killing dozens and destroying important documents, to steal a hard drive.

1) Tony blowing up an entire neighbourhood, killing possibly thousands, so Donald love could make a building.

Edited by DOUGL4S1

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D9fred95

5: Tommy's rampage in Messing With the Man. We go on rampages off missions all the time but this one is explicitly canon to the story.

 

4: GTA V trio robbing the UD. One of the biggest if not the biggest bank in the country being robbed of all it's gold is some extreme stuff.

 

3: GTA V trio stealing Merryweather's nuke or whatever it was.

 

2: CJ stealing the jetpack from Area 69/stealing green goo from the army. I'm surprised CJ never got repercussions for these.

1: Toni destroying Fort Staunton. Pretty much an act of terrorism.

Edited by D9fred95

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Am Shaegar

I'm surprised CJ never got repercussions for these.

 

Just asking - Did Tommy get any repercussions from stealing a "piece of military hardware" ?!?

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Journey_95

 

I'm surprised CJ never got repercussions for these.

Just asking - Did Tommy get any repercussions from stealing a "piece of military hardware" ?!?

 

There is a difference between stealing a tank driving around and stealing a freaking Jetpack (and some alien goo or whatever the hell that was) from a secret army base. Tommy never did anything nearly as OTT as CJ did during Black Project, Green Goo, Vertical Bird etc. missions. Those missions might as well be from COD or Splinter Cell, really nothing to do with normal criminal sh*t.

Edited by Journey_95

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D9fred95

 

I'm surprised CJ never got repercussions for these.

Just asking - Did Tommy get any repercussions from stealing a "piece of military hardware" ?!?

 

Depends, is a simple army tank that's not implied to be special in any way on par with a $60,000,000 experimental government project housed within a secret facility or what is to be implied alien blood (or something supernatural) held on a government train en route to said secret facility?

 

The answer is obviously no. Otherwise we could say Lester was dumb for wanting to send the implied nuke back, why bother if all government items the protags take have no repercussions tied to them.

Edited by D9fred95

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Am Shaegar

Depends, is a simple army tank that's not implied to be special in any way on par with a $60,000,000 experimental government project housed within a secret facility or what is to be implied alien blood (or something supernatural) held on a government train en route to said secret facility?

Jetpack isn't OTT nor unrealistic. Reasons explained here.

 

Cutting straight to the point.

But, what exactly is an imminent threat? A jetpack, a tank that you seem to find simple but it's a powerful machine that can do more bodily harm than a jetpack, which many consider quite slow and useless during combat for a single man to commit worst of the crimes, OR BOTH ?!?

I don't agree with this notion of differentiating between an experimental military hardware and a military vehicle like tank, since both are "stolen" from the army, and I don't think that the army wouldn't be authorized to take any or all actions necessary, esp., to stop any threats from stealing a tank that can be used to rampage through the streets, which is why we receive the highest wanted level for entering the military areas.

 

Since the jetpack is an experimental project under secret without anything that could be perceived as threat on the civilians, compared to real life instances where drunk soldiers have stolen a tank to cause eampage, including instances of killing a man for stealing a tank.

I am not saying that stealing a tank is the worst of crimes, but I don't find any logic behind stealing a jetpack to be considered as something that is "worst" of crimes committed by a protagonist.

 

@ topic - Niko, the only protagonist in the series, slapping a woman called Gracie, without caring about putting her life at risk just for missing diamonds. Sure, she was a spoiled individual, but that doesn't mean Niko can do whatever with a woman, and killing an homophobe suffering with some issues in the mission "Hating the Haters" for no justifiable reason - link

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Lock n' Stock

I think all we can all agree here. Every protagonist has done some bad sh*t, but what Toni did to Fort Staunton puts him at the top.

 

I'd also put Tommy in the Vice City mission 'Messing with the Man' up there, since you're essentially forced to cause full-on mayhem (shooting pedestrians, blowing up cars e.g) just to show em' whose boss.

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Journey_95

 

Depends, is a simple army tank that's not implied to be special in any way on par with a $60,000,000 experimental government project housed within a secret facility or what is to be implied alien blood (or something supernatural) held on a government train en route to said secret facility?

Jetpack isn't OTT nor unrealistic. Reasons explained here.

 

Cutting straight to the point.

But, what exactly is an imminent threat? A jetpack, a tank that you seem to find simple but it's a powerful machine that can do more bodily harm than a jetpack, which many consider quite slow and useless during combat for a single man to commit worst of the crimes, OR BOTH ?!?

I don't agree with this notion of differentiating between an experimental military hardware and a military vehicle like tank, since both are "stolen" from the army, and I don't think that the army wouldn't be authorized to take any or all actions necessary, esp., to stop any threats from stealing a tank that can be used to rampage through the streets, which is why we receive the highest wanted level for entering the military areas.

 

Since the jetpack is an experimental project under secret without anything that could be perceived as threat on the civilians, compared to real life instances where drunk soldiers have stolen a tank to cause eampage, including instances of killing a man for stealing a tank.

I am not saying that stealing a tank is the worst of crimes, but I don't find any logic behind stealing a jetpack to be considered as something that is "worst" of crimes committed by a protagonist.

 

@ topic - Niko, the only protagonist in the series, slapping a woman called Gracie, without caring about putting her life at risk just for missing diamonds. Sure, she was a spoiled individual, but that doesn't mean Niko can do whatever with a woman, and killing an homophobe suffering with some issues in the mission "Hating the Haters" for no justifiable reason - link

 

Its still OTT with the way the mission was designed and how it actually works in game. Sure the concept exists and has been used (no one said that its somehow sci fi) but that doesn't make a gangbanger infiltrating a secret army base and stealing a 60 million $ jetpack for some conspiracy theorist any less stupid. And then we also have Part 2 with the stupid alien goo..lmao.

 

In comparison we have Tommy stealing a tank from some soldiers on the street and thats it..

 

OT: CJ burying that poor foreman alive for speaking the truth (Kendl does look like a hooker) remains one of the most disgusting things a protagonist has done. He didn't even touch his sister..

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D9fred95

 

Depends, is a simple army tank that's not implied to be special in any way on par with a $60,000,000 experimental government project housed within a secret facility or what is to be implied alien blood (or something supernatural) held on a government train en route to said secret facility?

Jetpack isn't OTT nor unrealistic. Reasons explained here.

 

Cutting straight to the point.

But, what exactly is an imminent threat? A jetpack, a tank that you seem to find simple but it's a powerful machine that can do more bodily harm than a jetpack, which many consider quite slow and useless during combat for a single man to commit worst of the crimes, OR BOTH ?!?

I don't agree with this notion of differentiating between an experimental military hardware and a military vehicle like tank, since both are "stolen" from the army, and I don't think that the army wouldn't be authorized to take any or all actions necessary, esp., to stop any threats from stealing a tank that can be used to rampage through the streets, which is why we receive the highest wanted level for entering the military areas.

 

Since the jetpack is an experimental project under secret without anything that could be perceived as threat on the civilians, compared to real life instances where drunk soldiers have stolen a tank to cause eampage, including instances of killing a man for stealing a tank.

I am not saying that stealing a tank is the worst of crimes, but I don't find any logic behind stealing a jetpack to be considered as something that is "worst" of crimes committed by a protagonist.

 

 

Firstly, I never said jetpacks were unrealistic, I said it was experimental which in the 90s it probably was. Considering we still don't have them enmasse IRL the way SA depicts them implies that the variant we all want is still experimental.

 

Secondly, yes we have the Bell Rocket Belt IRL, but like Wikipedia says, it can only fly for about 21 seconds before it's out of fuel. SA's jetpack obviously has a much better fuel consumption since CJ's never runs out. Granted all vehicles within SA don't need refueling, but considering this one instance has it's real life equivalent have a 21 second flight time before it's empty, it's clear SA's version is much improved. With this in hand, would the real life USG take kindly to someone stealing their jetpack even if it was inferior to SA's? It is an "$60,000,000 project" after all. The government would just let this piece of experimental technology be stolen in their own base with all the funds being wasted. Sure, they could build another, but that'd be another $60,000,000 down the drain, why not try to find the hoodlum who did it? And could you imagine if it got into enemy hands? Like, the Cold War literally just ended in SA, why would the USG just be like "Yeah, jetpack stolen, sh*t happens". What if enemy nations were to weaponize it like how Online depicts it?

 

Stealing the Rhino, it's a tank used by the US Army and everybody in Vice City knows what it is and what it does. Like we know what the Abrams is IRL and I'm guessing the RL USG know all weaknesses it has. If a foreign nation somehow steals one, the US will know what it's weaknesses are to take it out and I'm guessing if a nation needs to steal foreign tanks to survive, odds are it doesn't have the science to improve on it's flaws much. The jetpack, being experimental and presumably one of a kind, has the possibility to be heavily improved since nobody knows all it's potential. Hence why the USG would go nuts if such a secret project was stolen.

 

With this all in mind I'm not saying the USG not taking action against Tommy is correct. Realistically if you were to steal a tank then you'd be in real trouble, as Shawn Nelson showed us. But if you were to break into a secret facility and stole their multi-million dollar black project (which happens to be a jetpack) right after a major time of uncertainty (the Cold War in this case), then I'd say the USG would try a little harder to catch you.

Edited by D9fred95

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The Coconut Kid

Some that haven't been mentioned that I'll throw in here...

 

Collecting innocent passengers along a bus route and then delivering them to a Russian gang boss to have them turned into hot dogs in GTA 2. The fact that you can actually hear them scream as they're shaped and processed makes this even more outrageous.

 

The Yardie boss and Catalina forcing SPANK addicts to act as suicide bombers in GTA 3.

 

Tommy Vercetti pimping out Mercedes to Love Fist and recruiting her to star in his adult films after promising her father he'll 'look after her' was pretty sleazy.

 

Gerry McReary killing a random Albanian thug (who he has Niko dress up as in the dead guy's clothes) and storing his corpse in the family's refrigerator felt quite sinister to me, especially when you've already been introduced to his mother and sister and consider that they're probably storing their milk and eggs in the same appliance.

 

Darko betraying Niko and his squad for $100.

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Hmmm nice bike

Toni Cipriani deciding to commit terrorism because Osama Bin Donald said so is definitely the worst crime ever committed in the series. All of the buildings in the neighborhood were blown up, and a ton of innocent people had to have died and it was basically just no big deal to everyone. It even

like the 9/11 aftermath when the mission ended (no way that was coincidental, either). You really can't top that. The only thing that could have topped it is if Trevor kept the nuclear weapon he stole from Merryweather and used it to nuke Los Santos and kill millions of people for sh*ts and giggles.

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Am Shaegar

Firstly, I never said jetpacks were unrealistic

 

It wasn't directed at you specifically, but I wanted to clear my position to anyone who might bring it up for discussion later.

 

 

 

Considering we still don't have them enmasse IRL the way SA depicts them implies that the variant we all want is still experimental.

I think you are going into the technicalities, which isn't really required since I was pretty clear in the original post (linked) by pointing out that the CONCEPT of jetpack itself doesn't sound unrealistic, at all. The fuel consumption isn't really the point here. Its a video game, and obviously, the developer is at liberty to tweak any aspect of the game based on the requirements of either the missions, or the gameplay, in general.

Even the body physics in GTA IV were over the top compared to the rest of the grounded tone of the game.

The point is that even driving a tank and causing a rampage is also over the top by the nature of the crime committed by the player, including many other aspects of GTA which I won't go into details.

 

 

 

The government would just let this piece of experimental technology be stolen in their own base with all the funds being wasted. Sure, they could build another, but that'd be another $60,000,000 down the drain

Before bringing the governement into the discussion, I am questioning whether the military wouldn't be authorized to take any necessary action for stealing a tank, or whatever, right under their nose? Its a question of not only any country's security but also the army's own reputation and serious security lapse on their part. The army has its own protocal, while the government's action is a different argument altogether.

 

 

 

Stealing the Rhino, it's a tank used by the US Army and everybody in Vice City knows what it is and what it does

I don't think it really matters whether people know what a tank/jetpack is.

I am talking about the "imminent threat" from stealing a tank would have own the civilians compared to the jetpack, and I clearly indicated in my earlier post that BOTH should be seen in equal measure rather than singling either one of them, which iswhy I am questioning the logic behind stealing a jetpack suddenly becomes much worse of a crime than the loss of lives that could be at risk by stealing a tank?

 

The way I see it - Both are equal threats to me, for different reasons. So, I don't see the point in singling out the jetpack when both are stolen from the army/military, irrespective of the purpose behind them.

 

Since, you have nicely explained about the threat of stealing a secret project like jetpack, then what about the actual killing of a number of French personnel by Tommy in the game? How would the government react to tommy's hand in helping Cortez in his conflict with French authorities over the illegal purchase of chips that belong to the French government? Would they just sit tight and let Tommy get away without any repercussions for his involvement in helping a criminal for stealing a foreign guidance chips?

 

In fact, the explanation you provided regarding the jetpack hasn't turned into realty in SA, and its just a (nice) theory, but what has happened in VC has actually turned your theory into reality, and yet people overlook that for reasons ...?!?

 

Is guidance chips used in missile technology less of a threat (or crime) than stealing a jetpack?

 

EDIT: Several typos corrected.

 

Edited by Am Shaegar

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anthony

Saw the mission where Toni blow up Fort Staunton; sh*t, it was pretty special and crazy imo, but sh*t wtf, it is also f*cked up; I kind of admire and like when R* create missions like this, next level..

 

Collecting innocent passengers along a bus route and then delivering them to a Russian gang boss to have them turned into hot dogs in GTA 2. The fact that you can actually hear them scream as they're shaped and processed makes this even more outrageous.

Holy sh*t, I want this.

Edited by anthony

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D9fred95

I think you are going into the technicalities, which isn't really required since I was pretty clear in the original post (linked) by pointing out that the CONCEPT of jetpack itself doesn't sound unrealistic, at all. The fuel consumption isn't really the point here. Its a video game, and obviously, the developer is at liberty to tweak any aspect of the game based on the requirements of either the missions, or the gameplay, in general.

Even the body physics in GTA IV were over the top compared to the rest of the grounded tone of the game.

The point is that even driving a tank and causing a rampage is also over the top by the nature of the crime committed by the player, including many other aspects of GTA which I won't go into details.

 

The point I was making regards to fuel consumption was to accentuate my point about how in real life, a government project that was inferior to a version like SA's would have said government still try their damnedest to get it back, even if theirs is inferior. I know that should go without saying, but I've had more than my fair share of discussions where the other party misses out on these details, so I'd rather be as thorough as possible.

 

 

Before bringing the governement into the discussion, I am questioning whether the military wouldn't be authorized to take any necessary action for stealing a tank, or whatever, right under their nose? Its a question of not only any country's security but also the army's own reputation and serious security lapse on their part. The army has its own protocal, while the government's action is a different argument altogether.

 

I'm presuming the army could take action if needed. While the Posse Comitatus Act limits their ability to essentially "police" their region, people stealing things like tanks and black projects out of their hands would probably warrant retaliation.

 

 

I don't think it really matters whether people know what a tank/jetpack is.

I am talking about the "imminent threat" from stealing a tank would have own the civilians compared to the jetpack, and I clearly indicated in my earlier post that BOTH should be seen in equal measure rather than singling either one of them, which iswhy I am questioning the logic behind stealing a jetpack suddenly becomes much worse of a crime than the loss of lives that could be at risk by stealing a tank?

 

The way I see it - Both are equal threats to me, for different reasons. So, I don't see the point in singling out the jetpack when both are stolen from the army/military, irrespective of the purpose behind them.

 

The jetpack is a black project from a highly guarded government facility. Besides stealing a highly experimental piece of technology, there'd be the fact that an individual trespassed on government property, infiltrated a facility where only a select number are allowed within, and killed several solders. On top of that, I'm presuming Area 69 has secrets in the form of sensitive files, strategic measures and as we heard, "alien culture". So now SA's government has lost a $60 million black project, several soldiers, and possibly international secrets (CJ wouldn't care about them but the USG won't know that).

 

Stealing the Rhino, yeah it'll cause destruction, but it's immediate destruction. Once Tommy's delivered it, the rampage is finished. The colonel will probably useit for his nation's army but what is one tank compared to international secrets? Potentially losing valuable secrets and technology and having them exposed would probably be much worse. We can even see this IRL in regards to WikiLeaks and Edward Snowden and we know how much of a hard-on the USG has for those two.

 

What this all boils down to is that CJ steals a black project from a secret facility, in the process screwing with the USG's ability to keep it's valuable content of technology and secret data under wraps as well as making them look incompetent. Tommy stole a single tank that caused destruction for a few minutes and can only... well, be a tank. It's not like Cortez's country is going to have an upper hand with a single tank, especially if he's fighting the french who have their own stuff.

 

 

Since, you have nicely explained about the threat of stealing a secret project like jetpack, then what about the actual killing of a number of French personnel by Tommy in the game? How would the government react to tommy's hand in helping Cortez in his conflict with French authorities over the illegal purchase of chips that belong to the French government? Would they just sit tight and let Tommy get away without any repercussions for his involvement in helping a criminal for stealing a foreign guidance chips?

 

In fact, the explanation you provided regarding the jetpack hasn't turned into realty in SA, and its just a (nice) theory, but what has happened in VC has actually turned your theory into reality, and yet people overlook that for reasons ...?!?

 

Is guidance chips used in missile technology less of a threat (or crime) than stealing a jetpack?

 

I don't know why you're bringing this up if the discussion is "stealing a tank in convoy is worse than stealing a jetpack from a secret base". This is a whole different bucket of fish.

 

But if you're going to bring it up then I'd say stealing guided chips for missiles is on par with stealing a black project from a secret base. Depending on how many missiles Cortez's country has then the threat is rather great. Considering though, Tommy was just a lackey who stole them from Ponce, Cortez would be likely blamed on the world stage at large should anything happen. CJ was hired by a simple hippie and pulled off the theft himself entirely, so the microscope would be on CJ more IMO.

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Yinepi

Toni blowing up Staunton and getting 5k for it. Why do I feel there is suppose to be some sort of satirical middle finger there? Either way that's no doubt the worst in the series.

Toni chopping up a man and delivering him to a restaurant is my second.

Toni is just one despicable man.

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Am Shaegar

I don't know why you're bringing this up if the discussion

Why not?

Because it's related both to the topic at hand as the worst crime as a response on my part, and a counter to your point regarding stealing a secret project, how it could get into enemy hands, and the rest of the theory as you mentioned.

I am posting an actual event in game based on the mission that happens in Vice city.

 

The jetpack is a black project from a highly guarded government facility. Besides stealing a highly experimental piece of technology, there'd be the fact that an individual trespassed on government property, infiltrated a facility where only a select number are allowed within, and killed several solders

I don't see it any different to what happens in VC, where the French personnel are being killed by Tommy, stealing the guidance missile chips that belongs to the French government, and thus there's an obvious case of an individual working against the interests of the French government and it's property.

In case of stealing the jetpack, CJ had no clue about it. It was only after entering into the facility that the jetpack was revealed. CJ was hesitant initially, but agreed to help The Truth based on the history they both had. Similar to offering a help to a friend, which is different from helping a criminal.

The Truth wasn't a criminal but he had a couple of contacts who already knew about the secret, and so it's likely that this was all well planned, and thus it's even more likely, that the powerful people behind this mission offered a strong backing by assuring The Truth that whatever loss of life, etc happens in the facility, including the job of stealing the secret project, the blame wouldn't pass on to CJ, which is why CJ was rewarded the jetpack at the end of the mission for his services by pulling it off successfully, and there would be no further repurcussions.

Simple to understand!!

 

 

.. but what is one tank compared to international secrets?

There's no evidence in game to suggest such a possibility, and so it's just a theory. Even if something happens that I don't think CJ would be blamed at all, as already explained in the above part of my post.

 

.. so the microscope would be on CJ more IMO.

This actually makes sense more in case of Tommy, because the French personnel saw him retrieving the merchandise, including the cops who pursue him after the wanted level triggers at the end of the mission. Cortez didn't commit the ACT of stealing.

These government agents or whatever aren't fools that they wouldn't know who stole the chips in the first place.

In case of CJ, I have already mentioned my reasons why the blame wouldn't go on CJ.

 

EDIT:

I'd also like to clear myself on a couple of other points, which I suppose might come up later as a counter argument:

1. Tommy knew about the chips, unlike CJ.

Proof: Tommy Vercetti: Look, Cortez sent me. Just give me the damn CHIPS

 

2. I don't think there's a string back up that could help Tommy / Cortez from being blamed and/or any possible action from the government, because Tommy and Cortez we're involved in stealing something that belongs to a foreign government, different from stealing something from the army working on a project that was under secrecy from the outside world anyways. Since there's no clarity on who ordered the mission, or on whose orders The Truth was working on this mission, it's pretty much open to interpretation of the players.

3. Lastly, Even though that's a $60,000,000 project, but the fact that CJ is able to use the jetpack for the entire game as an unlockable flying vehicle, I think the main target of the people involved in planning this mission, wasn't really the jetpack, but they were interested in stealing the ACTUAL STUFF called the Green Goo, as indicated by The Truth's comment in the mission - "Land on the train, kill the guards, get in and steal the stuff". Even The Truth didn't know what was on the train, "Carl Johnson: Oh, yeah. What stuff? The Truth: I don't know yet!"

 

The Green Goo clearly indicates that The Truth was working for someone, and thus my theory could be true about other powerful people could be involved in this whole stealing of green goo, may be government agents like Toreno, who knows.

Edited by Am Shaegar

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D9fred95

In case of stealing the jetpack, CJ had no clue about it. It was only after entering into the facility that the jetpack was revealed. CJ was hesitant initially, but agreed to help The Truth based on the history they both had. Similar to offering a help to a friend, which is different from helping a criminal.

The Truth wasn't a criminal but he had a couple of contacts who already knew about the secret, and so it's likely that this was all well planned, and thus it's even more likely, that the powerful people behind this mission offered a strong backing by assuring The Truth that whatever loss of life, etc happens in the facility, including the job of stealing the secret project, the blame wouldn't pass on to CJ, which is why CJ was rewarded the jetpack at the end of the mission for his services by pulling it off successfully, and there would be no further repurcussions.

Simple to understand!!

 

Except that The Truth working for someone higher up on the food chain is a theory in of itself. He's very anti-government and it's possible he managed to gain some documents regarding a experimental piece of technology that could help him gather what was on the train. While both Tommy and CJ did the heavy lifting in their objectives, Tommy's were explicitly under orders of a foreign nation's colonel, it's not like Cortez was being subtle after all. Whoever TT's supposed allies are, the game never indicates their existence unless you read extremely close between the lines and interpret things a certain way. As a result, if the USG know about TT's allies as much as we do, then CJ would stick out when he goes to Area 69.

 

At the same time, there's nothing stopping R*'s writers from saying TT found out about mysterious government products by sifting through some of Toreno's files like the anti-government nut he is.

 

And while it's not technically canon since it was cut, CJ and TT did kinda suffer repercussions for poking around Area 69 in "The Truth Is Out There". Government agents go after Truth and try to kill him, simply for being on government property. Tommy on the other hand has no such thing happen or was planned to happen as far as we know since we weren't on the development team for VC.

 

 

There's no evidence in game to suggest such a possibility, and so it's just a theory. Even if something happens that I don't think CJ would be blamed at all, as already explained in the above part of my post.

 

The USG in at least the 3D universe is depicted, like the rest of America, all the worst traits of the real version doubled. As the real USG probably would throw a fit if international secrets got out, it stands to reason the gung-ho, America is 1#, GTA USG would become paranoid at the idea of it's secrets being exposed by someone breaking into one of their main bases that contain things like "alien culture".

 

 

This actually makes sense more in case of Tommy, because the French personnel saw him retrieving the merchandise, including the cops who pursue him after the wanted level triggers at the end of the mission. Cortez didn't commit the ACT of stealing.

These government agents or whatever aren't fools that they wouldn't know who stole the chips in the first place.

In case of CJ, I have already mentioned my reasons why the blame wouldn't go on CJ.

 

 

Yes, the French saw Tommy. At the same time, unless they already know who Tommy is, all they saw was a tall, brown haired man in a turquoise Hawaiian shirt. And in that case they'd know Tommy is just a lackey sent by Cortez, the guy who actually desires and will use the chips. I'm presuming TT's allies would be a group very low under radar since until the desert missions, TT's worst problems were losing his weed farm. CJ, being the most visible out of TT's allies, would probably be on security camera somewhere. There's no way Area 69 wouldn't have cameras somewhere CJ went even if we didn't see them in actual gameplay. The faculty would now have video evidence of CJ's actions as well as a proper visual profile of the individual as opposed to a "tall, brown haired man in a turquoise Hawaiian shirt" Tommy would be, unless Washington Mall had security cameras of it's own.

Edited by D9fred95

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Am Shaegar

I don't think Tommy could get away easily after the murders committed by him in full public view inside the mall, irrespective of the cameras installed or not. Then how come the French personnel were present at the mall shootout? Because they were obviously following Tommy based on the inputs they had about the exchange that was going to happen at the site. Like I said, they are not fools. In fact, the courier guy also points out that it was a foolish move by Tommy to come directly at him, and talk about Cortez and the chips.

Pierre La Ponce: You American idiot! Zey followed you here!

And people say, CJ was an idiot :lol:

 

Indeed, Tommy was nothing more than a lackey who blindly follows orders without applying much thought, unlike CJ who showed signs of hesitance, always, because CJ knew something wasn't right. I am not saying that CJ couldn't be tracked down after stealing the jetpack. The point is, it's not clear what exactly the green goo stuff was all about?

Since, it's open to interpretation, all many of the interesting stuff in SA is, I think for the topic, if I have to pick up the worst between the two of these crimes, then logically saying, my pick would be based on that actual in-game experience, established by the evidence of actual events of the protagonists involvement in crimes that would surely invite consequences any time in future, compared to the missions Black Project and Green Goo, which essentially, nullified the serious consequences for CJ based on the fact that the jetpack is unlocked for him to store (basically, spawn) and use right away, just like the other military vehicle like Tank stored by Tommy in garage after the mission; meaning no government action was taken for stealing the black project. Secondly, as per the cut content the government agents went after The Truth, and not CJ, quite obviously, because CJ didn't keep the Green Goo, so I don't understand the logic behind Tommy getting away after handing over the chips to Cortez, but when CJ did the same during the Green Goo, the government agents will go after him, and not the The Truth??

Lastly, CJ could still manage to escape from this whole mess without any consequences because of the backing from Toreno. I mean, Toreno needs no introduction. That guy could possibly even shift the blame on Tenpenny, who knows :lol:

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Shadowfennekin

CJ burying a poor construction worker for calling Kendl what she truly is....

I've never liked CJ, and that is one of my top reasons why.

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Algonquin Assassin

Something I forget to mention. The Merryweather heist either option. Maybe not necessarily evil, but it showed good lapse in Trevors judgement that even Michael tore him a new asshole over.

All that risk for a super weapon and in the end they got nothing for it and couldve been killed with the people after them in due time. Its probably why Trevor was never trusted to lead heist preparation again.

If you want sh*t done you're better off doing it yourself.

Edited by Algonquin Assassin

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BowlingMaster

1 - Toni bombing Fort Staunton (terrorism)

2 - CJ stealing military projects (USA secret projects in danger).

3 - Trevor. Any crime he commits is a terrible crime. From killing Floyd and Debra to cannibalism. What pisses me off is that he is always wrong.

4 - CJ overreacting to the catcall that Kendl received from the construction workers. She didn't even told him what they said to her.

5 - Marty Chonks cleaning his name by killing his banker, the thieves he hired and his wife and possibly mixing their body parts with the dog food he produced.

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Evil empire

In disorder, based on old memories and without including the rampages:

 

-Claude helping Marty Chonks kill his wife, banker and hired thieves to turn them into dog meat

-Claude starting the war between the Cartel and Yakuza by rolling on Kenji Kazen to serve his greed for revenge and money by the way

-Tommy disguised as a Cuban assassinating the haitian gang leaders to start a bloody war between both gangs just to serve his greed for money

-CJ assassinating Alan Crawford and his innocent girlfriend to help OG Loc start his rap career even if Loc obviously doesn't have any talent

-CJ burying a foreman alive in mobile toilets because he harrassed Carl's sister Kendl

Edited by Evil empire

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Am Shaegar

Niko Bellic having participated in one of the most disgraceful acts of human trafficking.

 

EDIT:

 

Tommy Killing an innocent woman called Mrs. Dawson for money $2,000. It's a cheap act of killing a woman for no reason, despite having enough money.

 

CJ kills a valet to get his uniform. Strangely, the game doesn't count it as a murder committed by him. So...

Edited by Am Shaegar

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