Take-Two plans to only release games with 'recurrent consumer spending' hooks

[Giantsgiants]

 

Seems like change is coming....

 

 

R* going to have to follow suit and make prices reasonable and adjust a few things

They don't have loot boxes in GTA V though, there is nothing to change.

 

You're right about there being no lootboxes in GTA Online. But those videos show just how shady microtransactions are; shady enough that national governments are starting to intervene now.

[HamwithCheese]

Lol, someone on these committees play games.

 

And while you can say that buying a shark card, using that money for a business and failing to make profit in "high risk" situations is gambling, this won't do anything to r*. Its too gray. Again, stiff competition is what will get t2 to change tune.

[Luigi22]

Seems like change is coming....

 

 

 

 

 

R* going to have to follow suit and make prices reasonable and adjust a few things..if they don't want another problem like ea....no r* stop showing me I need to buy a shark card...I'm not buying crap from u.

Interesting times ahead, thanks for videos Quinn

 

What the Belgium part means is that lootboxes could be banned in whole European Union as they want to talk about it on EU level, although it could still take years. Seems like EA didin't only manage to piss into their own cereals but everybody elses also.

 

 

I wouldn't mind if this would happen and lootboxes and I guess all microtransactions would get banned, but doubt it has effect for Online, too much on grey area as somebody has probably already pointed out. Wouldn't mind that happen for Online also though.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Luigi22

[FluxAmbulance]

Lol, someone on these committees play games.

 

And while you can say that buying a shark card, using that money for a business and failing to make profit in "high risk" situations is gambling, this won't do anything to r*. Its too gray. Again, stiff competition is what will get t2 to change tune.

This. For those of you about to purchase a Belgium Government hype train ticket, sorry, but the truth is, the government can't really do much. They may be able to set limitations, but they can't eliminate the practice entirely.

 

It's like a steakhouse chain (who we'll call X for ease of typing) who charges extra for sauce, vegetables, hell, even napkins. But the government won't be able to just say you're too shady and shut him down. Yet X's steak continues to make everyone else's taste like dog crap in comparison, just like the state of wide open sandbox games. So of course, everyone still goes to X for their steak needs.

 

But one day, a new competitor, Y, opens up. The critics say that Y's steak is just as good as X's. And Y doesn't do any bullsh*t extra transactions like X does. Naturally, X is going to lose customers. Now X should realize, hey we're losing customers. This tells us that maybe our model isn't working. Maybe it's time to reconsider dropping the extra charges.

 

The point is, unless we get a competitor and a drop in customers, micro transactions in GTA are going to continue. GTA still trumps every other sandbox franchise so Rockstar can still get away with this.

[Lonely-Martin]

Too much too quote, I'm known for long posts but this one's real simple.

 

@ Luigi22... You said you don't mind loot boxes (post 534) so long as they don't contain content to give advantages?... Pay attention below!.

 

@ JAKEBAB and @ Giantsgiants...

 

Seriously, do you guys own a f*cking bunker?... You seem to be missing the loot box-esque randomly selected unlocks we can either grind 51 times at 3.5 hours, more if you don't set it up right or invest more cash into upgrades. Or pay to skip the gameplay/grind altogether...

 

* edit, I miss-read Giantsgiants, though, I do consider the bunker to be R*'s answer to this loot box craze ATM.

 

HOW IS THIS NOT A LOOT BOX?.

 

Ok, you can pay in-game cash, but at 225k per, 51 times... Man, this is just daft. How you and others can't see the lengths they went to actually try implementing this sh*t in this very game!.

 

* edit

 

@ FluxAmbulance...

 

 

Yeah, GTA needs competition, one that forces them to be creative.

 

I fear that with this microtransactions model, because the DLC's R* have put out this last 18 months have taken a lot less time/money to produce, their banks are filling, but spending is lower... So they use the profits to squeeze all and any competition down the line.

Edited November 22, 2017 by KWF1981

[Jabalous]

Grand Theft Auto Online doesn't do loot boxes. Players pay for items/contents that they know beforehand. Loot boxes are basically money you pay for unknown content. You could get an apple, or a peanut, basically a slot machine. In-game transactions are same as Downloadable Contents (DLCs), only now they're integrated directly into the game with forced updates. You might think that in-game items are overpriced to lure players into buying shark cards, but that's not gambling, it cannot and shouldn't be regulated in a free market.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Efreet

[Lonely-Martin]

^ Lol.

 

...You could get a livery... Or a game altering/balancing item...

 

Not convinced, never will be!.

[APB]

EA got raped, hopefully R* takes notes and sticks to what they have now.

[badmoon]

Grand Theft Auto Online doesn't do loot boxes.<snip>

Do you not have a Bunker? The Bunker plus research is basically a giant loot box. You have no idea in advance in what order the potential research "rewards" are going to present themselves. Combine this with the extremely long research times and you can see the pressure being exerted to push you into buying shark cards so that you can afford to fast track the research.

[Jenkiiii]

EA got raped, hopefully R* takes notes and sticks to what they have now.

 

EA did not get raped, or is this just a way of saying things?

 

The general public stood up and said 'no more'. We're not paying $60 for a brand new game but still being at a disadvantage from day 1 just because another person is OK with paying extra amounts of $10-20 for stronger characters. This forces you to pay extra $ on top of the base game from day 1 just to be competitive with the pay-to-win players. It's horrible, but the general public has beaten EA this time around. However, we all know the real reason why EA were forced to step down: Disney, and their dislike of the way EA are tarnishing the Star Wars legacy through in-game microtransactions, i.e. profits being made by EA on top of the base-game price, that are not being passed on to Disney, and which Disney probably wouldn't accept anyway. Disgusting.

 

However, this means we definitely will be getting microtransactions in future Rockstar games because there is no Disney putting pressure on T2 Interactive.

 

As for lootboxes, GTA online did experiment with them with 'crate drops', but the contents were mostly cosmetic, such as beer hats which didn't affect gameplay. And I agree with what KWF says above; the bunker randomwall nonesense absolutely sucked (although not quite loot boxes).

[Kiethblacklion]

The implementation of loot boxes in Battlefront and other games isn't the problem. After all, games for decades have had random chance loot boxes integrated into them. For example, Super Mario Bros 3 had the 3 random item chests within the mushroom houses on the maps. You pick a box at random and see what you get. But in SMB3, the chests were built into the game as a reward for getting to that area and to help you continue on the journey. They didn't require spending real money and the items in those chests could be acquired through regular game progression. Destiny 1 and 2 have loot crates, but those are rewarded for killing bad guys, completing objectives, etc. You still get great gear just by progressing through the stages and not just spending money.

The key to the entire argument against EA, R* and other developers who integrate microtransactions and lootcrates (I'm pointing my finger at you, Facebook and all your freemiuim games) is how the developers build the game around those microtransactions and lootcrates.

In EA's case, they deliberately made the standard, non-microtransaction progression unreasonably long and difficult. I say "unreasonably" because it isn't impossible, but building in-game currency acquirement around the idea of a set amount based on game time (aka an in-game salary) as opposed to earning through game completion is a clear indication of the developers forcing a player to play the game their way instead of your way. You can't earn currency any faster no matter what you do in the game. Unless you willingly spend real money to buy loot crates which contain essential progression items. At the moment this isn't illegal, just frowned upon by a large contingent of the gaming community.

 

In R*'s case, GTAO's items and progression does not require any real money be spent in the game, but again, the developers do tend to make it frustrating to obtain items. Players have to raise 2-3 million dollars to buy a hangar, or warehouse, or clubhouse, etc only to have to turn around and raise several more million to buy vehicles and then more money to upgrade, etc just to unlock new missions and objectives.

 

For example, as a CEO, you have to buy a Ruiner 2000 in order to unlock missions involving that vehicle. The concept of buying the vehicle to unlock missions isn't the problem, that is natural game progression. However, the Ruiner 2000 costs over $4 million. So a player has to grind to get that much money then buy the vehicle in order to play the missions that don't pay out exceptional amounts of money. And that's only AFTER buying an office to use for your organization AND buying a vehicle warehouse. A stock Ruiner can be stolen off the street and parked in your garage. Just because a parachute and a turbo jump was added to the vehicle the price jumps to over $4 million. It is a prime example of how R* purposefully designed the game to frustrate players into using real money to purchase in game items so that you don't get left behind. That's not illegal but I find it more like an attempt at railroading us players into playing their way and not our way.

 

And please don't sit their and try to argue and brag over how much money you can make in a few hours grinding this mission or performing that action. Every player has a different style; some progress faster than others, some take their time, some just don't care, but we all play our way and bragging about your money making ability is as pointless as a d**k measuring contest.

 

Frankly, all I want is for developers to make the non-microtransaction options more viable for those of us who think spending real money in a game is stupid or don't have the budget for it. If I have to buy a hangar before I can get the plane, that's fine. I will do that. If my odds of successfully completing a mission improves with upgrading the plane, that's fine I will upgrade the plane. But if I have to grind for two weeks just to earn enough to buy the hangar and plane THEN grind another week or two in order to afford the upgrades so that I can complete the mission, that is not cool. I just want REASONABLE item costs, REASONABLE time requirements to accomplish in-game goals, and REASONABLE payouts for missions and heists (which I feel never paid out what they should, considering all that you have to do to complete them).

Edited November 22, 2017 by Kiethblacklion

[APB]

 

EA got raped, hopefully R* takes notes and sticks to what they have now.

 

EA did not get raped, or is this just a way of saying things?

 

The general public stood up and said 'no more'. We're not paying $60 for a brand new game but still being at a disadvantage from day 1 just because another person is OK with paying extra amounts of $10-20 for stronger characters. This forces you to pay extra $ on top of the base game from day 1 just to be competitive with the pay-to-win players. It's horrible, but the general public has beaten EA this time around. However, we all know the real reason why EA were forced to step down: Disney, and their dislike of the way EA are tarnishing the Star Wars legacy through in-game microtransactions, i.e. profits being made by EA on top of the base-game price, that are not being passed on to Disney, and which Disney probably wouldn't accept anyway. Disgusting.

 

However, this means we definitely will be getting microtransactions in future Rockstar games because there is no Disney putting pressure on T2 Interactive.

 

As for lootboxes, GTA online did experiment with them with 'crate drops', but the contents were mostly cosmetic, such as beer hats which didn't affect gameplay. And I agree with what KWF says above; the bunker randomwall nonesense absolutely sucked (although not quite loot boxes).

 

 

Yes, it is just a way of saying things, especially when Governments want to forbid gambling lootboxes, like the ones EA tried to get through. EA took a step too far and as you mentioned, public stood up against their BS. Governments took notice of that and outlawed that BS and encouraged other governments to do the same.

 

In other words, EA got everyone against themselves.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by APB

[Kiethblacklion]

Just a little side note: Anyone else get a chuckle when Mr. Lee said "It's a trap" in regards to a Star Wars game?

Edited November 22, 2017 by Kiethblacklion

[HamwithCheese]

Gunrunning research isn't as bad as ea loot boxes.

 

No dupes, guaranteed success in the end and you pay with stuff that is in abundance.

 

But gr research was pretty f*cking sh*tty.

[elfoam]

 

 

EA got raped, hopefully R* takes notes and sticks to what they have now.

 

EA did not get raped, or is this just a way of saying things?

 

The general public stood up and said 'no more'. We're not paying $60 for a brand new game but still being at a disadvantage from day 1 just because another person is OK with paying extra amounts of $10-20 for stronger characters. This forces you to pay extra $ on top of the base game from day 1 just to be competitive with the pay-to-win players. It's horrible, but the general public has beaten EA this time around. However, we all know the real reason why EA were forced to step down: Disney, and their dislike of the way EA are tarnishing the Star Wars legacy through in-game microtransactions, i.e. profits being made by EA on top of the base-game price, that are not being passed on to Disney, and which Disney probably wouldn't accept anyway. Disgusting.

 

However, this means we definitely will be getting microtransactions in future Rockstar games because there is no Disney putting pressure on T2 Interactive.

 

As for lootboxes, GTA online did experiment with them with 'crate drops', but the contents were mostly cosmetic, such as beer hats which didn't affect gameplay. And I agree with what KWF says above; the bunker randomwall nonesense absolutely sucked (although not quite loot boxes).

 

 

Yes, it is just a way of saying things, especially when Governments want to forbid gambling lootboxes, like the ones EA tried to get through. EA took a step too far and as you mentioned, public stood up against their BS. Governments took notice of that and outlawed that BS and encouraged other governments to do the same.

 

In other words, EA got everyone against themselves.

 

 

 

 

Look at that, US governments can do more than bomb people, I'm very impressed with this. !, I may have the forgiveness brewing lol... one day

[Lonely-Martin]

Gunrunning research isn't as bad as ea loot boxes.

 

No dupes, guaranteed success in the end and you pay with stuff that is in abundance.

 

But gr research was pretty f*cking sh*tty.

 

I agree we had the option of time or money, both being far too costly. And the random factor does it no favours. Either way, we're gambling on a 'good one'.

 

Not the worst example, but it's a slippery slope after shark cards, then the research... What's next.

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

Seems like change is coming....

 

 

 

 

 

R* going to have to follow suit and make prices reasonable and adjust a few things..if they don't want another problem like ea....no r* stop showing me I need to buy a shark card...I'm not buying crap from u.

This provides me with a sense of pride and accomplishment.

[Mas u Sees]

 

Seems like change is coming....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

R* going to have to follow suit and make prices reasonable and adjust a few things..if they don't want another problem like ea....no r* stop showing me I need to buy a shark card...I'm not buying crap from u.

This provides me with a sense of pride and accomplishment.

 

Jesus christ, this again makes me question peoples ability to read.

 

LOOT BOXES do not equal Microtransactions.

 

No Rockstar Game as of now features any kind of loot box system, there is no concern for Rockstar as of now.

Microtransactions will still be going full force, expect them in Red Dead Online to finance ongoing DLC, just like with GTA Online.

[Cecil475]

Treat me like a walking wallet? I think not. I will get GTA VI. A special edition if one is available. But to keep spending real life money for every additional vehicle? No. I ain't biting no more. Let me remind you as to what this game is called. It's called 'Grand Theft Auto' Not 'Legally Purchased Auto'. Get it together Rockstar, or I'll put you aside and I won't buy your games anymore. I'm tired of microtransactions everywhere. Gaming was good without it. But the only things you people in the gaming industry want to do now is to make a bunch of shareholders happy instead of the gamers. Remember, Gamers buy your games. Not shareholders. You lose them, your shareholders won't have crap. I got enough retro game goodies to keep me happy. You need me and heck a lot more than I need you. You will get your $60, and you will be happy, otherwise you can go to Tartarus, and I'll go back to playing Nintendo.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Cecil475

[Quinn_flower]

 

 

Seems like change is coming....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

R* going to have to follow suit and make prices reasonable and adjust a few things..if they don't want another problem like ea....no r* stop showing me I need to buy a shark card...I'm not buying crap from u.

This provides me with a sense of pride and accomplishment.

 

Jesus christ, this again makes me question peoples ability to read.

 

LOOT BOXES do not equal Microtransactions.

 

No Rockstar Game as of now features any kind of loot box system, there is no concern for Rockstar as of now.

Microtransactions will still be going full force, expect them in Red Dead Online to finance ongoing DLC, just like with GTA Online.

 

remember rome wasnt built in a day...this is how it starts....its like the et thing back in the 80's which lead to the crash that almost killed the gaming in the usa

[Luigi22]

Too much too quote, I'm known for long posts but this one's real simple.

 

@ Luigi22... You said you don't mind loot boxes (post 534) so long as they don't contain content to give advantages?... Pay attention below!.

 

@ JAKEBAB and @ Giantsgiants...

 

Seriously, do you guys own a f*cking bunker?... You seem to be missing the loot box-esque randomly selected unlocks we can either grind 51 times at 3.5 hours, more if you don't set it up right or invest more cash into upgrades. Or pay to skip the gameplay/grind altogether...

 

* edit, I miss-read Giantsgiants, though, I do consider the bunker to be R*'s answer to this loot box craze ATM.

 

HOW IS THIS NOT A LOOT BOX?.

 

Ok, you can pay in-game cash, but at 225k per, 51 times... Man, this is just daft. How you and others can't see the lengths they went to actually try implementing this sh*t in this very game!.

 

* edit

 

@ FluxAmbulance...

 

 

Yeah, GTA needs competition, one that forces them to be creative.

 

I fear that with this microtransactions model, because the DLC's R* have put out this last 18 months have taken a lot less time/money to produce, their banks are filling, but spending is lower... So they use the profits to squeeze all and any competition down the line.

Bunker research indeed wasn't nicest thing to get into the game, in fact I still have 30 or something left to unlock, would be less but stopped research for months. But it looks like research was one off thing thankfully. And no Oppressor missiles yet, although I don't even own Oppressor.

 

So yeah you are right lootboxes exists in bit different way than traditional.

[Black-Dragon96]

Seems like change is coming....

 

 

 

 

 

R* going to have to follow suit and make prices reasonable and adjust a few things..if they don't want another problem like ea....no r* stop showing me I need to buy a shark card...I'm not buying crap from u.

 

Oh boy. This is going to be fun.

[Giantsgiants]

This is what happens when you treat your playerbase like cash cows to milk.

 

Rockstar will be next.

[saintsrow]

On this warm, wonderful day of Thanksgiving, TTWO is thankful for recurrent consumer spending.

[SeaWallTx]

Holy crap...that's a name I haven't seen in a while....hey seawalt!

Well, I've been in the 3D GTA Universe, about finished up there, about to release my walkthroughs.

After that I'm going back top the 2D universe games.

I never really left,

I just left GTAO.

 

So, it's now been over a year since I touched Online, and from threads like these I imagine I won't be starting up GTAO at all, ever again.

Sad Day, Sad day indeed(when R* decided to ruin GTAO)

Edited November 27, 2017 by SeaWallTx

[Giantsgiants]

 

Holy crap...that's a name I haven't seen in a while....hey seawalt!

Well, I've been in the 3D GTA Universe, about finished up there, about to release my walkthroughs.

After that I'm going back top the 2D universe games.

I never really left,

I just left GTAO.

 

So, it's now been over a year since I toughed Online, and fom threads like these I imagine I won't be starting up GTAO at all, ever again.

Sad Day, Sad day indeed(when R* decided to ruin GTAO)

 

I feel you.

 

I really do want a Hunter, but I now have some games that are far more appealing and engaging for me. That combined with the state of this game with its absurdly high prices designed to push Shark Cards makes it hard for me to be bothered to log onto GTA Online.

[Jenkiiii]

 

 

Holy crap...that's a name I haven't seen in a while....hey seawalt!

Well, I've been in the 3D GTA Universe, about finished up there, about to release my walkthroughs.

After that I'm going back top the 2D universe games.

I never really left,

I just left GTAO.

 

So, it's now been over a year since I toughed Online, and fom threads like these I imagine I won't be starting up GTAO at all, ever again.

Sad Day, Sad day indeed(when R* decided to ruin GTAO)

 

I feel you.

 

I really do want a Hunter, but I now have some games that are far more appealing and engaging for me. That combined with the state of this game with its absurdly high prices designed to push Shark Cards makes it hard for me to be bothered to log onto GTA Online.

 

 

You're not the only one. I've got a stack of GTA friends who no longer play because they can't keep up with the cost of everything. These are people with jobs and families who feel left behind. I have other friends with lesser egos who still play, and who don't mind catching up all the time, but if you do have any pride or ego it's almost unbearable being blasted out of the lobby by more powerful players who just play play play or spend spend spend.

 

You'll have to ask these people why they don't buy shark cards, but it's probably because they'll need to spend a couple of thousand dollars just to keep up.

 

I've even heard some of them saying that GTA online is the best game they've ever played, but they still refuse to play it. Rockstar have phased out the middle-man in favour of noobs and long-term players who thoroughly commit to GTA online.

[Luigi22]

I've been getting somewhat convinced that developers will start to think twice and maybe even thrice before having microtransactions in their games, thanks to Battlefront 2. So maybe we could get microtransaction free RDR2? I mean if its cycle of life will be atleast 3 years, microtransactions and atleast lootboxes could be banned in that period of time.

[R3CON]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Holy crap...that's a name I haven't seen in a while....hey seawalt!

Well, I've been in the 3D GTA Universe, about finished up there, about to release my walkthroughs.

After that I'm going back top the 2D universe games.

I never really left,

I just left GTAO.

 

So, it's now been over a year since I toughed Online, and fom threads like these I imagine I won't be starting up GTAO at all, ever again.

Sad Day, Sad day indeed(when R* decided to ruin GTAO)

 

I feel you.

 

I really do want a Hunter, but I now have some games that are far more appealing and engaging for me. That combined with the state of this game with its absurdly high prices designed to push Shark Cards makes it hard for me to be bothered to log onto GTA Online.

 

You're not the only one. I've got a stack of GTA friends who no longer play because they can't keep up with the cost of everything. These are people with jobs and families who feel left behind. I have other friends with lesser egos who still play, and who don't mind catching up all the time, but if you do have any pride or ego it's almost unbearable being blasted out of the lobby by more powerful players who just play play play or spend spend spend.

 

You'll have to ask these people why they don't buy shark cards, but it's probably because they'll need to spend a couple of thousand dollars just to keep up.

 

 

 

I've even heard some of them saying that GTA online is the best game they've ever played, but they still refuse to play it. Rockstar have phased out the middle-man in favour of noobs and long-term players who thoroughly commit to GTA online.

This is the thing alot of people miss when they try to reconcile with widespread negative opinions of the game. The common retort is "people still play it, people still buy it, the game is still popular" and yeah, that's true, but at what cost?

 

GTA in many ways has become too big to fail. There's no doubt they'll keep finding new ways to monetize the game or that they'll continue to attract new people, in the short-term at least. What's really in question is the soul of the franchise and whether or not it can be salvaged.

Edited November 24, 2017 by R3CON

[Giantsgiants]

I'd also like to add on that I think in today's society, we like to treat each other like cows to milk. It's not just limited to video games.

 

A similar sort of thing is probably happening with smartphones as well, at least with Apple. Lately, my mother has had all sorts of problems with her iPhone. Whenever my brother or my dad tries to diagnose the problem, they say it's probably due to some dying component, and often comments that iPhone parts do die easily. I've heard it from other sources as well, both from friends I know and online posts. The structural components of phones these days seem to be weaker than Rhino Tank armor.

 

Even if your phone is structurally intact, then the software gets obsolete fast. The whole thing is designed to make it so you have to purchase a brand new phone every four years or so.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Giantsgiants