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Harvey Weinstein fired from Weinstein Co.


El Dildo

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That would all be fine and dandy, if it wasn't patently obvious that this kind of sh*t had been going on for decades, and EVERYONE knew. They can all come now and go "oh I only heard about it", or "oh I should have believed more" and whatever. But they all f*cking knew. Same as with that creep Polanski, or even Woody Allen. And this is only the stuff that came out to the public.

 

A creep is a creep is a creep. The moment you know someone you know mad a pass at someone, or harassed someone, logically it would follow that you would avoid that person or at least warn others or, depending on the seriousness of it all, try and get the police involved. Weinstein has always been a creep, and has always acted like a slimy pig. Everyone always knew what he did, but didn't care enough to bring it to light, or were shut down then they tried to. Same deal with Bill Cosby. He's been a rapist for decades, and people knew. Women tried coming to light with their experiences, and were shut down. It took another comedian to make a joke to bring light to the subject and get people actually looking into it, which is frigging appalling.

 

But everyone knew. They can all come up with their excuses now, but all their hands are dirty with the harassment.

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yeah people piling on different celebs/actors/directors/etc like they'd have been brave heroes in their shoes is laughable.

so we shouldn't shine a bright spotlight on a decades of abuse?

is that your conclusion?

 

you say it's "complicated."

but then you immediately boil the whole issue down into 'the internet jumping on a high horse' which is a gross oversimplification of the consequences we're seeing. I fail to see how properly indicting terrible behavior is 'laughable.' it would maybe be laughable if the rest of us were all hypocrites but I've never sexually assaulted anyone in my life let alone even had such a thought occur to me...

 

let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

ok. somebody hurry up and get me a pile of rocks.

 

What I'm really saying is now that we have the full picture, all the accusers, and the seriousness of the offenses and the regularity of them, it's easy for us, in hindsight to point the finger and say "X" should have done something. I think it's more complicated than that.

I understand where you're coming from but I think Tchuck's statement says it all:

 

That would all be fine and dandy, if it wasn't patently obvious that this kind of sh*t had been going on for decades

the problem here is that we have a self-righteous institution which has institutionalized a system of abuse.

this system that was largely supported by the willful engagement of countless actors and agents and casting directors who basically sent these helpless women off to the Walk of Shame knowing full-well what might happen to them. because their moneys and careers were more important than basic human dignity. it is what it is.

 

Hollywood prides itself on its Hallmark gospel.

preaching attitudes to the rest of the world as if they know better than everyone else. meanwhile they're sweeping this ugly sh/t under the rug.

 

so yeah we have the right to come down on them. hindsight is kind of irrelevant in a case like this.

when something so terrible has been going on for so long, you can't convince me that no one had the opportunity to do the right thing sooner than this. they deserve all the heat they're going to take for this cover up. there's really no good excuse.

Edited by El Diablo
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Don't twist my words. I'm talking about the people piling on different industry people who quite simply had nothing to do with the abuse, not the abuser himself. We all like to pretend that we'd have done something but I think that's plain bullsh*t and 90% of people chatting sh*t would have done the same - stayed quiet - if they were put in this situation. The industry is a business of connections and crossing someone like Weinstein could quite simply destroy you.

 

H can burn for all I care. He's a predator who deserves what's coming to him and I hope all his victims find vindication in all of this.

Edited by Leftist Bastard
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90% of people chatting sh*t would have done the same - stayed quiet - if they were put in this situation.

yeah.... I'm pretty sure you just pulled this statement out of your ass.

I think the number is way less than 90% :sigh:

 

The industry is a business of connections and crossing someone like Weinstein could quite simply destroy you.

ok?

but every industry is a "business of connections."

 

and most industries don't have a problem with such grotesque and widespread sexual abuse. I'm not sure that's a very good excuse.

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90% of people chatting sh*t would have done the same - stayed quiet - if they were put in this situation.

yeah.... I'm pretty sure you just pulled this statement out of your ass.

I think the number is way less than 90% :sigh:

 

The industry is a business of connections and crossing someone like Weinstein could quite simply destroy you.

ok?

but every industry is a "business of connections."

 

and most industries don't have a problem with such grotesque and widespread sexual abuse. I'm not sure that's a very good excuse.

 

You can delude yourself into thinking you'd be the big hero to save the day and turn Hollywood into a flowery garden of all that is good in the world but that's your business not mine.

The inherent nature of this argument means you're pulling your statement out of your ass just as much as I am.

 

And? where did I state that Hollywood and only Hollywood was a business of connections? i'd argue it's more so than a lot of other industries, but that's besides the point.

 

Again, you're just f*cking delusional l if you think this is mostly a Hollywood problem and not a wide spread cancer in all different industries and corporate culture. It's a matter of power + control but by nature of the entertainment industry those people are in the public eye thus we hear about cases like this more often. There are far more no-name secretaries and underlings in other industries that fall into the claws of other Weinsteins that we don't hear about because they're not Angelina Jolie or Gwyneth Paltrow.

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Yeah, no.

 

 

This is a problem for Hollywood and the larger culture that surrounds it. You could make a case that there were larger corporate interests involved, such as Disney Co., but this was the people in power and the show-biz news people that held the info from view, see NBC and Ronan Farrow for example. Trying to shift blame just reeks of desperation. Clean out the rats, purge that culture, and get some new blood in there. Hollywood is on a downward slope anyways, this scandal is just another nail.

 

Suburbicon tanked, next up Justice League.

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Yeah, no.

 

 

This is a problem for Hollywood and the larger culture that surrounds it. You could make a case that there were larger corporate interests involved, such as Disney Co., but this was the people in power and the show-biz news people that held the info from view, see NBC and Ronan Farrow for example. Trying to shift blame just reeks of desperation. Clean out the rats, purge that culture, and get some new blood in there. Hollywood is on a downward slope anyways, this scandal is just another nail.

 

Suburbicon tanked, next up Justice League.

Is this in reply to my post? are you denying that this issue transcends industries and are you proposing that it's a Hollywood only problem?

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Yeah that's it, it's only a Hollywood problem :rol:

 

 

If you want to make the case about secretaries in other industries go ahead, but this topic is about a specific person in the TV and Movie section. That's what I'm commenting on. While I disagree with Diablo on many things, he's spot on with this topic and glad he brought it up. So yes, it's a bit desperate when someone says 'hey what about...' on something totally irrelevant. Yes there is harassment in other sectors, but we're talking about one sector in particular: the movie/entertainment industry. Saying that this sort of behavior is totally unacceptable in this instance doesn't mean that it's ignored in other industries. That's what I believe you have missed in Diablo's previous post.

 

In addition to that, there is the entertainment media that covered up these crimes for many years. I'd be hard pressed to find another industry that uses the media as cover...maybe politics I guess. That would be the difference between an actress (or hell a line worker) being harassed and a secretary being harassed. The entertainment media needed the ad revenue and access from people like Weinstein. When people talk about institutional problems, this would be one of them.

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Yeah that's it, it's only a Hollywood problem :rol:

 

 

If you want to make the case about secretaries in other industries go ahead, but this topic is about a specific person in the TV and Movie section. That's what I'm commenting on. While I disagree with Diablo on many things, he's spot on with this topic and glad he brought it up. So yes, it's a bit desperate when someone says 'hey what about...' on something totally irrelevant. Yes there is harassment in other sectors, but we're talking about one sector in particular: the movie/entertainment industry. Saying that this sort of behavior is totally unacceptable in this instance doesn't mean that it's ignored in other industries. That's what I believe you have missed in Diablo's previous post.

 

In addition to that, there is the entertainment media that covered up these crimes for many years. I'd be hard pressed to find another industry that uses the media as cover...maybe politics I guess. That would be the difference between an actress (or hell a line worker) being harassed and a secretary being harassed. The entertainment media needed the ad revenue and access from people like Weinstein. When people talk about institutional problems, this would be one of them.

I'm sorry but have you actually read the conversation? because I wasn't the one to bring up other industries - it was Diablo in an attempt to rebuke my argument saying it's only a Hollywood problem which is patently bullsh*t.

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So it looke like Harvey Wankstain hired private investigators to spy on actresses such as Rose McGogan and journalists.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/harvey-weinsteins-army-of-spies/amp

 

 

He began to hire private security agencies to collect information on the women and the journalists trying to expose the allegations. According to dozens of pages of documents, and seven people directly involved in the effort, the firms that Weinstein hired included Kroll, which is one of the worlds largest corporate-intelligence companies, and Black Cube, an enterprise run largely by former officers of Mossad and other Israeli intelligence agencies. Black Cube, which has branches in Tel Aviv, London, and Paris, offers its clients the skills of operatives highly experienced and trained in Israels elite military and governmental intelligence units, according to its literature.

Edited by Neon_Dreaming
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I'm happy that he finally got what he deserved. It took a damn long time before it happened, but he took a fall from grace. And even though his wife left him, he got fired, and now is under investigation, he deserved so much more for his filthy behaviour.

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So it looke like Harvey Wankstain hired private investigators to spy on actresses such as Rose McGogan and journalists.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/harvey-weinsteins-army-of-spies/amp

 

He began to hire private security agencies to collect information on the women and the journalists trying to expose the allegations. According to dozens of pages of documents, and seven people directly involved in the effort, the firms that Weinstein hired included Kroll, which is one of the worlds largest corporate-intelligence companies, and Black Cube, an enterprise run largely by former officers of Mossad and other Israeli intelligence agencies. Black Cube, which has branches in Tel Aviv, London, and Paris, offers its clients the skills of operatives highly experienced and trained in Israels elite military and governmental intelligence units, according to its literature.

 

 

When people say "why didn't they say something sooner!", this is the thing they should read.

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Do I have to quote it for you?

 

 

 

ok?

but every industry is a "business of connections."

 

and most industries don't have a problem with such grotesque and widespread sexual abuse. I'm not sure that's a very good excuse.

 

 

so, yeah.....

 

 

try again.

 

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so, yeah.....

you need to slow down and read better.

or pay more attention.

 

I said most industries don't have a problem with such grotesque and widespread abuse.

I never said it was only a Hollywood problem.

 

so yeah. you can try again when you're ready.

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lmao you're so full of sh*t and you know it.

 

I'll quote again

 

 

 

 

Again, you're just f*cking delusional l if you think this is mostly a Hollywood problem and not a wide spread cancer in all different industries and corporate culture.

 

But i'm going to assume you put some thought into what you wrote and weren't just poorly trying to cover your ass by bringing up other industries into this conversation, which I reiterate you did and not me, what encompasses ''most'' for you? what industries beside Hollywood do you think are problematic? which are good and abuse free?

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Dude, he clearly said most industries which, as far as I know, doesn't mean all industries.

 

And as you said:

 

 

Again, you're just f*cking delusional l if you think this is mostly a Hollywood problem and not a wide spread cancer in all different industries and corporate culture.

 

He didn't say this is mostly a Hollywood problem. Read his sentence again:

 

 

and most industries don't have a problem with such grotesque and widespread sexual abuse. I'm not sure that's a very good excuse.

 

Emphasis mine. He meant that we don't hear about sexual abuse to the level we hear about it form Hollywood, that is child actors being molested by older actors, women being raped to advance their careers, high level producers hiring private investigators to keep people from spilling the beans. You simply don't hear about it, at least not to the level you hear about it form Hollywood.

 

His point is that there are several industries where influence and connection is king; but you don't hear about nearly as many cases coming from these industries as you hear from Hollywood, nor are they as common knowledge or "open secrets". So simply saying that Hollywood's sexual problem stems from influence and connection isn't correct, as there could be a number of other causes contributing to it, since there's other industries where these things are important and sexual abuse doesn't happen; and industries where these things don't matter as much and sexual abuse also happens.

 

 

There are far more no-name secretaries and underlings in other industries that fall into the claws of other Weinsteins that we don't hear about because they're not Angelina Jolie or Gwyneth Paltrow.

 

And if you're going to say that, you'll need to come up with numbers, though.

 

Mind you, I agree with you in principle that sexual abuse and harassment can happen anywhere there may be a power differential, specially between a woman and a man.

 

But fundamentally, I don't think that that is the main cause of the abuse that has happened in Hollywood: take Corey Haim, who was sodomized at 14 on the set of the movie he was shooting, by Charlie Sheen. He didn't give in because of the influence Sheen had; he didn't do it because his career would be over if he didn't; he did it because people around him normalized the abuse, led him to think it was ok, and encouraged him to do it, manipulating him into. I'd wager that most instances of abuse in Hollywood probably sprung from the same manner. And at the time, because it was normalized, because it was internalized, it stayed that way. Even when Corey Feldman tried to bring it to light, he was shut down because he would "ruin an industry". sh*t take Jimmy Saville, take Gary Glitter, they sodomized and raped children not because they were going to ruin their lives with their influence; but simply because they could. There was no career destroying move there, as there was no career to begin with (for the children).

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Dude, he clearly said most industries which, as far as I know, doesn't mean all industries.

 

And as you said:

 

 

Again, you're just f*cking delusional l if you think this is mostly a Hollywood problem and not a wide spread cancer in all different industries and corporate culture.

 

He didn't say this is mostly a Hollywood problem. Read his sentence again:

 

 

and most industries don't have a problem with such grotesque and widespread sexual abuse. I'm not sure that's a very good excuse.

 

Emphasis mine. He meant that we don't hear about sexual abuse to the level we hear about it form Hollywood, that is child actors being molested by older actors, women being raped to advance their careers, high level producers hiring private investigators to keep people from spilling the beans. You simply don't hear about it, at least not to the level you hear about it form Hollywood.

 

His point is that there are several industries where influence and connection is king; but you don't hear about nearly as many cases coming from these industries as you hear from Hollywood, nor are they as common knowledge or "open secrets". So simply saying that Hollywood's sexual problem stems from influence and connection isn't correct, as there could be a number of other causes contributing to it, since there's other industries where these things are important and sexual abuse doesn't happen; and industries where these things don't matter as much and sexual abuse also happens.

 

 

There are far more no-name secretaries and underlings in other industries that fall into the claws of other Weinsteins that we don't hear about because they're not Angelina Jolie or Gwyneth Paltrow.

 

And if you're going to say that, you'll need to come up with numbers, though.

 

Mind you, I agree with you in principle that sexual abuse and harassment can happen anywhere there may be a power differential, specially between a woman and a man.

 

But fundamentally, I don't think that that is the main cause of the abuse that has happened in Hollywood: take Corey Haim, who was sodomized at 14 on the set of the movie he was shooting, by Charlie Sheen. He didn't give in because of the influence Sheen had; he didn't do it because his career would be over if he didn't; he did it because people around him normalized the abuse, led him to think it was ok, and encouraged him to do it, manipulating him into. I'd wager that most instances of abuse in Hollywood probably sprung from the same manner. And at the time, because it was normalized, because it was internalized, it stayed that way. Even when Corey Feldman tried to bring it to light, he was shut down because he would "ruin an industry". sh*t take Jimmy Saville, take Gary Glitter, they sodomized and raped children not because they were going to ruin their lives with their influence; but simply because they could. There was no career destroying move there, as there was no career to begin with (for the children).

First of all, since you asked for some numbers to back up my statement of abuse being a wide spread problem that is not a Hollywood thing

https://www.wsj.com/articles/more-than-50-of-women-in-advertising-experience-sexual-harassment-study-finds-1470938770

https://www.buzzfeed.com/azeenghorayshi/famous-astronomer-allegedly-sexually-harassed-students?utm_term=.meXGzL0Zo#.gxxlKLoJ4

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/20/sallie-krawcheck-on-the-sexual-harassment-she-endured.html

http://bkaccelerator.com/9-ways-women-getting-abused-fashion-industry/

 

And it goes and on and on, I remember reading an article that compiled different statistics and sources on abuse in the work place - I can try and find it for you if you liked. The nature of Hollywood is it's glamorous, on display, out in the open. These things come to light because all of those people are public figures - but you average Jane [and Joe] aren't in that same position of publicity. That's why you don't hear about it as much.

 

Also when I mentioned Hollywood being a business of connections I wasn't referring to the victim; but rather the people who had nothing to do with Weinstein's abuse that were being piled on for not saying something/acting on what they heard when it could quite simply destroy them. You are correct - some of those victims weren't even industry people to begin with, and Hollywood's child abuse problem in particular is abnormal; but in this particular scenario concerning Harvey Weinstein I can't just point at everyone else uninvolved with the abuse and say it's their fault when ousting Weinstein wouldn't be so simple.

 

There is no real way to prove that Hollywood has a bigger problem than other industries; or vice versa in all honesty but when women in another positions and lines of work are getting abused with numbers that go up to 50% you can't just say Hollywood has a bigger, more prominent problem than other industries. I still hold that whenever there is an imbalance in power there will be abuse - and that imbalance is present everywhere from Starbucks to Disney.

Edited by Leftist Bastard
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