Gang members and Interiors

[Veigar]

Yes. I've tried what Zaz said a few months ago - to raise the zone's Z axis to be above an interior that spawns peds (for example, The Four Dragon's) which didn't do anything. Having the entire San Andreas zone be highlighted green doesn't work either.

 

And by getting homies to spawn in interiors, I mean like how they do in say, Grove Street. You know, how you see them in groups smoking in drinking? Yeah, that, but in interiors. I don't think that's possible to do!

 

Anyone want to prove me wrong? I'd love to be proven wrong honesty, as I've tried to get this to work for a while now.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Veigar

[OrionSR]

So why do these guys spawn in the burglary interiors?

 

[Jimmy]

I think he means if it's possible to have any of the GSF Members spawn in free roam, maybe in interiors like Safehouses.

[OrionSR]

First find a crack, then pry it open. The screenshot above was taken at one of those blue apartments near the LS burglary garage and the location of the Sweet's Girl mission. I forget which but can recheck tomorrow. NTAuthority has a good reference somewhere on the interiors used for each burglary door. I remembered seeing gangs in these interiors before, but I'm sure there are others.

[Veigar]

That's because for Burglary Missions, it just takes the pedgrp from where you were prior to entering the interior. Yes, they appear in burglary houses like that, but they don't stand around in groups and such. Also, these homies attack you

 

 

Also, to elaborate

 

I mean having them act as they do on the streets - not any unique interactions like Burglary Missions. Just imagine groups of Grove Street members spawning and acting as how they do normally in Ganton, but in an interior like The Four Dragon's.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Veigar

[OrionSR]

I understand your goal, but I don't expect any easy solutions. It's not just the gangs that aren't spawning. Cops won't spawn without a wanted level, and there are no prozzies, criminals or dealers either. Just the popcycle peds that were in play when CJ entered the interior. I don't expect changes to the zone coordinates to make any difference. While CJ is considered to be within an interior the popcycle will be drawn from the enex stack. If he is pulled out of that interior using gray hell exploits the popcycle and ped limits from that interior transition will continue to be in play no matter where CJ is on the map.

[Veigar]

Hmmm.... well, it's still probably possible - do you know where to find this "enex stack" so I could edit the popcycle?

[OrionSR]

Hm... Interesting idea. I'm know the enex stack is used to predict the destination as CJ starts a transition for the purpose of the area name that's displayed, but I'm not completely convinced about the popcycle. I might save in the casino and play with my enex stack using a hex editor to see if the peds change. If the enex stack doesn't determine the peds I'm not sure what does. I'm not terribly optimistic about reaching your ultimate goal so it's hard to get too enthusiastic about running more tests.

 

The enex stack isn't all that interesting. The game keeps track of the series of enexes entered. The stack is usually 1 in a normal safehouse. If you saved inside of the wardrobe or the Penthouse Suites of the casino, or the casino floor if CJ entered through the rooftop, then you'd have 2 in the stack. There's not really much point of manipulating the stack. It's awkward to get at without a hex editor. It's much easier to modify the zones where the enex starts. The Savegame Editor 3.x has a really good zone editor. You can edit the popcycles and gang density.

 

I've been experimenting with enex flags, the control bits for enex door properties. These can be managed with cleo scripts but there aren't many tools that can read them. Doesn't matter though. Nothing about the flags seems to have any influence on gangs spawning. I'll keep my eye on the flags but I'm not expecting it to help.

 

If I get motivated enough I'll unlock that interior without using the burglary van and see if gangs spawn without the mission running. There's a pretty good chance you were right and these guys only spawn during the mission.

 

Something else to keep in mind. The save file only tracks the door flags and the links between the enexes. All of the other information about the enex is read from text IPL files when the game starts. And, the problem with burglary doors is they don't count as normal enexes. Their coordinates are hardcoded and I only see shadows of their existence in the save file. Still, it might be interesting to learn if some interiors are somehow different and allow gangs inside.

Edited October 1, 2017 by OrionSR

[Veigar]

Golly, thank you for that ridiculously detailed response! And yeah, this seems to be super complicated, even if the idea itself is simple - gangs spawning in interiors as they do in the normal world. Yes, Gang members still spawn in Burglary Houses even if you aren't on a Burglary mission. For example, say you go into the Crack Den and use a mod to go into the interior universe. There will be a Burglary House right next to the Crack Den. Go there, and gang members may spawn. This isn't because of gang members though, it's because Burglary Houses act the same even if you're not on a burglary mission - you can still pick up and do things with the TV's and such.

 

 

Also, I forgot to note this. GANG MEMBERS SPAWN IN THE LIL'PROBE INN INTERIOR. I really don't know why! If you put a green zone above where the Lil'Probe Inn is located (somewhere in the desert) and change the zone type to anything that isn't desert or countryside, they spawn in here like normal. I should take a picture of it in a bit, I'll edit this post when I have it.

 

As far as I know, that's the ONLY interior that spawns gangs that aren't modified by Burglary House scripts.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Veigar

[OrionSR]

Lil Probe Inn is an unusual interior in that it is not located at Z 1000 or so like most other interiors. I think it's hidden in the hill behind it. Another example would be the generator room of the Sherman Dam but peds don't spawn there - except for cops if you've got a wanted level. And that's what we're fighting against. The rules are different above Z 900 or so - the lowest level of interiors is about Z 950 but I forget at which level things start acting normally again.

 

I suspect the "easy" solution is to drop the interior coordinates below Z 900. I don't think you'll need to put a zone around it though.

[Veigar]

Yeah, I thought as much. Thanks for the input! I'll test this and bump my results.

[Veigar]

Alright - I first tested this on the Inside track betting shop.

 

I moved the X coordinates of the interior down to 150.0 - whether or not this is too high aside, Homies didn't seem to spawn in the interior.

 

I believe that I messed something up though (Perhaps they have to be underground?) but so far, that test wasn't successful.

[OrionSR]

Did any peds spawn at all? I'm not sure how this works, but perhaps the ped paths are still at the original Z level.

[Veigar]

Yes, they did spawn. However, it was strange, I had to exit the interior (not through the marker) and go back inside it to make pedestrians spawn. I assume this has to do with the awkwardly placed yellow marker, seeing as I just moved everything down to 150.0 for the Z axis... the marker appeared slightly above the door. It still doesn't explain why no homies spawned, but it also brings up the question in terms of why pedestrians spawn only if you exit the interior (not far at all, literally just like an inch out of it) and back in makes them appear. However, the betting shop peds (the ones that appear behind the glass) spawn in the original Z axis but they don't die when they fall from the height... those are unique peds though, they don't walk or have paths, so I'm assuming they're unrelated to the other stuff I brought up.

[OrionSR]

I would expect the tellers to be scripted. I've seen the thread but haven't had a reason to look inside.

[Veigar]

Do you think 150.0 is too high for the Z axis? The Lil'Probe Inn is underground after all... maybe that somehow affects it.

[OrionSR]

I have no idea. I think I'll stop offering suggestions. I seem to be wasting your time.

 

I've been trying to make a little sense of the internal data, and not having much luck. But it appears that there is an enex routine to remove dodgy peds. However, there are several exceptions. The following interiors appears to skip the remove dodge peds routine, or maybe have something extra.

 

Request: bar1, strip2, LAstrip, Mafcas, and Tricas.

Generate: LAstrip, Mafcas and Tiacas, and the 4 police interiors.

 

Main.scm will spawn bar staff when CJ enters any of the three bars, BAR1, BAR2, or UFOBAR.

 

Y'know... Since my predictions have been so terrible. It might be worth the trouble to test your original plan and raise the upper Z level of the zone to include your lowered interior.

Edited October 10, 2017 by OrionSR

[Veigar]

No, don't worry, your suggestions are fine! I'm trying to learn more things about how the game works that very little know (such as this, and that jetpack glitch that activates when you kill everyone in the gym for some bizarre reason.)

 

I believe raising the zone's Z axis doesn't help, because the zones stretch up to 150.0 for the Z axis - but I won't give up yet, I believe that I can try this with a different interior (perhaps the strip clubs) and make it underground instead of 150.0. Perhaps I'll reverse test the Lil Probe Inn and raise the Z axis of that to 1000+ (where the other interiors are located) and see if it still spawns grove street homies. Thanks for your time, I appreciate it!

Edited October 10, 2017 by Veigar

[ZAZ]

Yes. I've tried what Zaz said a few months ago - to raise the zone's Z axis to be above an interior that spawns peds (for example, The Four Dragon's) which didn't do anything. Having the entire San Andreas zone be highlighted green doesn't work either.

Gangspawn needs path and zone,

The cloths shops and casino have paths.

Raise the zone's Z axis bleow of cloths shops and casino have a chance to spawn gangs

Now it needs valid codes for main.scm or cleo to spawn gang at Four Dragon's

Show us your script. Opcode 076C: is required

 

 

 

 

So why do these guys spawn in the burglary interiors?

 

Spawned by 2dfx section inside of ide

I know for shure that the furnitur and peds inside of paperchase construction office of int_veg.ide are done by 2dfx

 

look also inside of gen_int2.ide and gen_intb.ide

they should contain the burglarys and other interiors

btw. the enex of their ipl have flags to activate the burglary mode

 

 

 

-------

 

 

 

 

How ever, its easy it spawn gangmembers by script where ever you want.

 

And then?

 

Gangwar? no, gangwar requires car path

 

smoking? drinking? should be possible

[Veigar]

I've tried raising the zones of exteriors already.

 

For example, we'll take The Four Dragons Casino zone. I've raised the Z axis of it up to about 1300 or so - more than enough for most interiors. I put the territory over it, walk in, and no one spawns inside. Same thing with every other interior that has paths. I'm pretty sure they're influenced by some other factor, perhaps the enex stack popcycle thing OrionSR mentioned a few posts above this one.

 

The thing that perplexes me though is how the Lil' Probe Inn seems to bypass this, though. Yes, I understand that it's located on ground level unlike most interiors (it's inside of the cliff behind the Lil' Probe Inn's exterior) and that means it is within the Z axis of the zones that are on the map nearby. That would imply that Interiors are effected by gang territories if they're within the zone - I believe the zone that the Lil' Probe Inn is located within is "The Big Ear" zone. So if this is covered by GSF territory, they spawn in the inn. Except this seems to only happen with this interior specifically, even if any other interiors are within zones. Something interesting I found is that the text displayed when entering the Lil probe inn is the same text that displays when you are in the actual zone around it - this doesn't happen for either casino. Woozie's casio is displayed as "The Four Dragon's Casino" but the marker displays it as "The Four Dragon's." I'm doubting this has any relevance, but I feel it was worth mentioning.

 

Anyways, I still have my save file with each zone and the axis being extended up to 1300 or so - here it is, if any of you want to play with it. http://gtasnp.com/Ienspj

Edited October 10, 2017 by Veigar

[OrionSR]

I think it's worth the trouble to repeat your raised zone test on the interior altered to the lower Z level. Before the interior was above 900 meters, now it isn't. I'm expecting the enex stack to determine the interior peds but it's never a good idea to ignore ZAZ's suggestions. I won't be confident in our conclusions if we don't run the test.

 

Thanks for the save, but I can easily manipulate the zone data in my saves. In fact, if you'd like to have a few tweaks to your save to help with testing then I might be able to help you out. Some suggestions:

• Reset global timers to 0 to disable all threads and eliminate their influence on experimental results.
• Disable specific threads by increasing their wake timer. (These changes can also be fine tuned to disable threads for a limited time period.)
• Redirecting enex connections. A second or third entrance to the UFO bar would provide useful stack information.

[DK22Pac]

Let's say, game uses another way to spawn peds in interiors, it's not the same as spawning peds on street.
As ZAZ said, interior paths are generated from information inside 'furnitur' 2dfx section.

You say you want to spawn peds inside interiors, just like they are spawned on streets.
But do you know and understand how they are spawned on streets?

Also: you can enable burglary interiors with ENABLE_BURGLARY_HOUSES

Edited October 11, 2017 by DK22Pac

[Veigar]

 

I think it's worth the trouble to repeat your raised zone test on the interior altered to the lower Z level. Before the interior was above 900 meters, now it isn't. I'm expecting the enex stack to determine the interior peds but it's never a good idea to ignore ZAZ's suggestions. I won't be confident in our conclusions if we don't run the test.

 

Thanks for the save, but I can easily manipulate the zone data in my saves. In fact, if you'd like to have a few tweaks to your save to help with testing then I might be able to help you out. Some suggestions:

• Reset global timers to 0 to disable all threads and eliminate their influence on experimental results.
• Disable specific threads by increasing their wake timer. (These changes can also be fine tuned to disable threads for a limited time period.)
• Redirecting enex connections. A second or third entrance to the UFO bar would provide useful stack information.

 

Appreciate any edits made to that save - it's the only one I can conduct tests on anyways because the zone information is savegame specific. Thank you! And I'll take you up on the altering interiors to a lower Z level. I suppose it doesn't matter which interior I lower, as long as it has the paths ZAZ listed in his posts.

 

 

Edit: alright, I have tested lowering the interior (and every prop, including the yellow marker, have a z axis of 15.0) within the stretched Z axis zone. Results? Well, not successful. I've had different type of pedestrians spawn, from countryside themed ones, to normal suburban ones... here is a picture:

Sadly, no GSF. The Z axis for this interior are exactly 15.0 in this picture. The security guard and the waitress both have set coordinates to spawn from, so they fell from the sky. As for these peds, they seemed to only spawn if I exit the interior via blue hell and come back to it using a trainer. The interior is located within the Fern Ridge zone, which is owned by GSF in the save I've provided earlier. The zone type is "Gangland", so it's not a zone type issue. The results here are the same as the Betting Shop, exactly.

 

Orion, I believe you were correct with the marker and enex stacks pulling a certain group of pedestrians to spawn in these interiors. Now our only question is - why doesn't this happen with the UFO bar?

Edited October 11, 2017 by Veigar

[Veigar]

Attempted a similar test with lowered interiors and an edit in the popcycle.dat folder. I think the game just takes completely different scripts when you're in the interior world.

 

Still, as I said earlier, it doesn't explain the sole interior this doesn't apply to.  I've altered the height of said interior, entered it without going through an enex marker, none of it seems to do much. When I move the interior itself, it seems no pedestrian spawns at all. (Tried this with the betting shop and the strip club above)

 

This would all make sense and be perfectly fine if it wasn't for that one interior that just ignores all of this. An easy solution (I think at least) would be to gather data from the UFO bar and just try to ctrl v it into another interior like the Four Dragons or something. But I'm not exactly sure how to mine data so easily like this... but I'm fairly positive it's an enex marker thing. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Veigar

[OrionSR]

I'm of the impression that this has something to do with the ambiance scripts used to spawn peds in some interiors. I expect these to control things like bouncers and barmaids, but not peds from other triggers, like gambling tables. This would be somewhat related to enexes as the ambiance scripts won't run unless they detect the expected name used to link the enex.

 

It could be that the ambiance thread draws random peds from the popcycle active before entering the enex and all but the "others" groups are filtered when CJ is above 950 meters. I'll poke around in the threads a little to see what I can learn.

 

[Veigar]

Much background testing later, and thanks to Orion and Nick007J.. 

 

If the memory address of "MIN_INTERIOR_POS_Z" is changed from 950.0 to 1250.0, assuming that it is a save file with raised info.zon zones, gangs will spawn in interiors. 

 

Note this would require to start a new game every time because zone data seems to never change as after you start a new save file. 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Veigar

[OrionSR]

Changing the "MIN_INTERIOR_POS_Z" (this might be a made up variable name) using memory writes in cleo. I expect this change to persist until the game is restarted.

0A8C: write_memory 0x858F4C size 4 value 1250.0 virtual_protect 0  // adjust the lowest level of the interiors

Zone coordinates can be modified without starting a new game by editing with a hex editor. This is a lot easier using a binary template.

 

Notes on ped spawns and moving an interior:

• Peds that spawn with objects (pool table and player) will move with the object.
• main.scm needs to be modified in order to move peds spawned by scripts (barstaff).
• Path nodes need to be adjusted for the random peds to spawn on paths.
   

[Veigar]

Good news.

 

After lots of trial and error, the solution has been found. Exact steps:

 

1.  Any gang territory covering the interior's real location. I chose to use the SAN_AND zone because this not only solves our zone Z axis problem, but it also avoids you having to modify saves or start a new game following a info.zon modification. This can be done with a Savegame Editor. If you don't want to do that, you could maybe try the territory glitch and activated it way out past the state, but I'm not sure if the SAN_AND zone is possible to get normally.

2. Using the CLEO Script OrionSR made for me that I decompiled:

   With this CLEO script, you can alter the memory address that the game keeps for interior heights. Press these keys:

   F9 = Very low (10.0)
   F10 = Standard (950.0)
   F11 = Raised (1250.0) - This is the one you want to use for gang members. 

   Using this you can get gang members to spawn in interiors like the Four Dragons, Caligula's, and that other unnamed casino. Keep in mind that the keys should be pressed before entering interiors. 

3. That's it! Huge thanks to Orion for working closely with me on this project, as well as Nick007J for his contribution.   

We also manged to unintentionally get a display fix on GTASnP.

 

Another thing: The reason my previous tests of lowering interiors didn't work was because all pedestrians spawning within the strip clubs and inside track betting are not generic spawns. They are coded to do special animatiosn (like wave at strippers and the betting screens). The Casinos have path nodes that would need to be modified had they been lowered, so that was also not a good choice. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Veigar

[OrionSR]

There's a fairly large area of the map near Angel Pine that is part of the SAN_AND zone that includes roads. Rhans has successfully glitched gangs into this zone.

[CarlGantonJohnson]

Due to a glitch I don't understand and haven't been able to repeat, my gang members ended up inside the safehouse with me. I filmed a few seconds after it happened but didn't get them falling out of the ceiling at the beginning, since I didn't expect it to happen. 

I'm new, so I can't post a video yet.