The Audiophile Thread

[sivispacem]

1 hour ago, owl-man said:

Got a question, is an ex-display ATH-A1000x for about 470 aud a deal I should go for or pass on

You'd really need to try them. I really rate the ATH Art series I've tried (the 990Z and 1000Z) but I've never tried the older X models. They have a very typical Audio-Technica profile with a bit of boost in the mids and midbass which suits the majority of music I listen to.

The headband design is very much an acquired taste though- I've modified mine for a better fit.

[owl-man]

12 hours ago, sivispacem said:

You'd really need to try them. I really rate the ATH Art series I've tried (the 990Z and 1000Z) but I've never tried the older X models. They have a very typical Audio-Technica profile with a bit of boost in the mids and midbass which suits the majority of music I listen to.

The headband design is very much an acquired taste though- I've modified mine for a better fit.

I wish I could try it before buying, but it's a store in WA, not Vic. Can't try the 1000z either because we don't get that model, not that I'd get it anyway since it's over 700 dollars.

 

Probably a better deal than kph30i for 70-80 dollars tho.

Edited February 19, 2021 by owl-man

[sivispacem]

3 hours ago, owl-man said:

I wish I could try it before buying, but it's a store in WA, not Vic. Can't try the 1000z either because we don't get that model, not that I'd get it anyway since it's over 700 dollars.

 

Probably a better deal than kph30i for 70-80 dollars tho.

Oh undoubtedly, but I am also left wondering how long they've been sitting out as "display" models given that they were released in 2011 and replaced by the Z series in 2016.

 

I imagine they're very similar to the Z, certainly from the specification there's not much difference between the two. 

[DEALUX]

On 2/18/2021 at 4:48 AM, SilverRST said:

Beyerdynamic makes amazing audio stuff like the headphones. I have 5 Beyer headphones lol

The DT990 is usually known for painfull treble. I'm sensitive to painfull "sss" so the DT990 probably would murder my ears. I do have the DT880 250ohm and it's one of my favorites. The soundstage is big and am not sure why it's labeled as semi-open. The Beyer Tygr 300R seems to be a DT990 with less aggressive treble.

I noticed that even the 990 has a bit more dampening on the back than something like the HD600 or HD800 (which are completely open). They do isolate somewhat but sound very open and spacious. They are harsh for sure but a bit of EQ helps. I just love how good the imaging and clarity is for $150 so it makes me more forgivable of their other flaws.

[SilverRST]

36 minutes ago, DEALUX said:

I noticed that even the 990 has a bit more dampening on the back than something like the HD600 or HD800 (which are completely open). They do isolate somewhat but sound very open and spacious. They are harsh for sure but a bit of EQ helps. I just love how good the imaging and clarity is for $150 so it makes me more forgivable of their other flaws.

It does indeed. Beyers do have a lot of great headphones with many different sound signatures. Ever tried Amiron Home? That's the perfect headphone for movies because of its cinematic audio and great bass extension details and it's amaing too for gaming. Just because something is more expensive doesn't mean they are automatically superior to less expensive ones. Also not sure why the DT880 is semi-open because it sounds very open and spacious too lol

[sivispacem]

Yeah the treble harshness on the 880 and 990 are the only real criticisms for them, especially at the price.

[SilverRST]

On 2/19/2021 at 3:17 PM, sivispacem said:

Yeah the treble harshness on the 880 and 990 are the only real criticisms for them, especially at the price.

Turned down the frequencies that are responsible for the harshness and it's a damn good headphone.

 

[DEALUX]

On 2/19/2021 at 4:17 PM, sivispacem said:

Yeah the treble harshness on the 880 and 990 are the only real criticisms for them, especially at the price.

Yeah, it's kind of uncanny. Even without the peaks at 6K and 8K (250 ohm model apparently has a peak at ~13K as well) the upper treble is 2-3 dB too elevated. It makes them sound very spacious but it reveals the harshness in most recordings.

 

The articulation would be improved without the peaks and artificial elevation. The clarity actually reminds me a lot of some in-ears. There's something about that direct interaction with the eardrum that makes treble sound very precise but in-ears severely lack in terms of extension up top, so they perform poorly for detail overall.

Edited February 21, 2021 by DEALUX

[SilverRST]

There are different types of trebles. Soft treble, harsh treble, fatiguing and other trebles. My Klipsch Heritage HP-3 have a very sparkly and vivid treble and no harshness. Sibilance is the most annoying, that sh*t can be really painfull and ear and brain piercing.

Edited February 23, 2021 by SilverRST

[DEALUX]

4 hours ago, SilverRST said:

There are different types of trebles. Soft treble, harsh treble, fatiguing and other trebles. My Klipsch Heritage HP-3 have a very sparkly and vivid treble and no harshness. Sibilance is the most annoying, that sh*t can be really painfull and ear and brain piercing.

All Beyers have one or two spikes in the treble that deviate from a generic HRTF (basically how your ear subjectively perceives a flat set of reference speakers, AKA studio neutral) hence the harshness. They also overdo the upper treble.

 

[SilverRST]

19 hours ago, DEALUX said:

All Beyers have one or two spikes in the treble that deviate from a generic HRTF (basically how your ear subjectively perceives a flat set of reference speakers, AKA studio neutral) hence the harshness. They also overdo the upper treble.

 

Well, not really Amiron Wireless (Copper) and T5p.2 do not have the spikes. The "sss" is so silky smooth, like an angel is pissing in your ears lol

But those are not studio headphones of course, more for home use. But screw it, EQ the DT880/990 and they are damn awesome!

[DEALUX]

On 2/24/2021 at 7:57 PM, SilverRST said:

Well, not really Amiron Wireless (Copper) and T5p.2 do not have the spikes. The "sss" is so silky smooth, like an angel is pissing in your ears lol

But those are not studio headphones of course, more for home use. But screw it, EQ the DT880/990 and they are damn awesome!

I actually kinda fixed the treble issue with this simple DIY trick lol.

 

 

I cut some pieces of cloth, fairly thin ones, from some cheap face masks and covered the driver with them. The stock tonality of this headphone is pretty good actually despite the somewhat v-shaped sound so killing a bit of the treble with some extra dampening makes it sound a lot more balanced and easy to listen to. It doesn't completely kill the resonances but I can actually use them without EQ lol. It's kind of a shock how simple this was.

 

Edit: This also makes them bassier funnily enough. An interesting sound signature.

Edited March 7, 2021 by DEALUX

[owl-man]

Decided to take some pictures of grandmas upstairs audio setup since I'm there.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

Then she has an old Sony surround sound system for the rarely used tv in the same room.

https://imgur.com/a/RmUbiDY

Then this downstairs which is only used for radio when they aren't home now.

Is any of this stuff worth asking for in the future? She hasn't used the upstairs stuff for almost 15 years.

[DEALUX]

 

It's funny how I keep going back to mid-fi headphones and find them superior overall to some $1K cans. These sound so natural and clean but perhaps a bit bright in some places and somewhat bass light. But still...amazing sound quality.

[SilverRST]

Just because a headphone is $1k and up, doesn't mean it sounds superior to headphones cheaper than $1k.

I bought the Fidelio X2HR a month and some weeks ago and am really loving it! Bass is tight and punchy and bright is silky smooth and non-fatiguing.

At some point I don't even care anymore about expensive headphones, not worth the amount of money except if it's a very special headphone like the Klipsch Heritage HP-3.

[DEALUX]

Some expensive headphones are definitely overrated but price does reflect sound quality somewhat. The issue is that when you get a more expensive set, while it may sound more detailed and clear in some sense it can also lack in other things like instrument clarity or timbre. The HD800 is a prime example (now replaced by the HD800S). It's touted as the most detailed dynamic driver headphone but you can't help but feel weird about its sound after a while. It doesn't sound natural in the way it spaces everything out to the point where you lose too much instrument clarity.

 

With the R70x and some other cheap dynamic open-backs, you don't get the same super wide soundstage effect and spacious sound, but in return you get a more narrow presentation with more focused images/instruments (the latter is a more natural representation of sound). The detail on the cheaper cans is not that far off from $1K cans. The R70x is like 95% there at least. You don't get much better than that unless you're willing to spend thousands on something like the Hifiman HE1000.

Edited May 22, 2021 by DEALUX

[sivispacem]

Like most things, it's law of diminishing returns. A £200 pair of audiophile headphones can and do sound 10x better than a £20 pair but a £2k pair won't be an order of magnitude better than a £200 pair.

[DEALUX]

2 hours ago, sivispacem said:

but a £2k pair won't be an order of magnitude better than a £200 pair.

Funnily enough if you buy the wrong expensive pair it might actually be worse than the cheaper one. I mean I've had planar headphones with better bass. Well, better extended and more impactful bass, but there are things that I'm hearing on the R70x (which I bought in mint condition, used, for $200) that I can't even comprehend.

 

I was listening to some live recordings and I could actually hear the background noise of the audience while a male choir was performing. These subtle background details are the sort of things you can hear on super expensive well-tuned planar and electrostatic headphones (and some expensive dynamic ones like the Focal Utopia) but I sure as hell didn't hear them on my most expensive sets that were $1000 each (give or take). I only bought the R70x because it measured well and it was ranked pretty high by a person who has rated a lot of headphones (as objectively as possible). Other than a somewhat annoying treble peak at 8K and somewhat limp sub bass it's almost perfect.

 

Edit: What expensive headphones are supposed to do well is giving you that sensation that you are inside the recording and I believe this has mostly to do with the quality of the treble and upper treble (i.e. a smooth resonance free response brings out those subtle room cues that your brain picks up on). I'm just amazed that the R70x can give you a bit of that even though it's not super expensive (though the build is a bit questionable for $350 new).

Edited May 23, 2021 by DEALUX

[SilverRST]

This hobby is also extremely subjective. The looks, comfort, designs plays important roles too.

Some heaphones do give a huge deminishing returns because a owner who has both Heritage HP-3 and Meze Empyrean said they sounds almost equal to each other and the Empyrean is like 3 times more expensive.

[DEALUX]

12 hours ago, SilverRST said:

Some heaphones do give a huge deminishing returns because a owner who has both Heritage HP-3 and Meze Empyrean said they sounds almost equal to each other and the Empyrean is like 3 times more expensive.

That's probably a bad example because the Empyrean is designed to be a luxury headphone primarily and maybe not so much an audiophile one (sound wise). Most people rate it below the other headphone flagships in terms of sound quality/detail/etc.

 

They're built really well though and are very comfortable apparently. I would personally probably look at the higher end Hifiman planars like the HE1000 for better sound and good build/looks still.

[Mexicola9302]

Im a Teufel guy.

 

I got these speakers atm:

 

Teufel Ultima 40 2 of them

 

Teufel Ultima 20 4 of them

 

 

Teufel Ultima 20/40 Center 1 of it

 

And 2 Yamaha Subwoofers, and a Yamaha AVR. Im currently waiting for the reworked Yamaha AVR's without the broken HDMI 2.1 chips. The best thing about Teufel is, they are unbreakable, i already volumed them up to max volume and nothing broke. They are made of kevlar/fiberglass, so they will never break. And they sound fantastic, high quality for a good price made in Berlin.  

[DEALUX]

The Etymotic ER2XR is now my favorite headphone hehe. They sound great with the Shure foam tips. Very natural and fatigue free compared to full size headphones.

 

[Guest]

Just gave away my system"

I borrowed pics from internet

Japanese Quality built 1977-79

 

The Nikko is awesome the power is incredible.

it will be missed

Specifications:
Continuous Power Output per Channel:
More than 120 watts  - 20 -20,000 Hz at 8 Ω
More than 130 watts - 20 - 20,000 Hz at 4 Ω
More than 120 watts - 1000 Hz at 8 Ω
More than 130 watts - 1000 Hz at 4 Ω
Total Harmonic Distortion :
Continuous Power Output  at 8 Ω :   no more than 0,008%
Continuous Power Output  at 4 Ω :  no more than 0,02%
1 Watt power Output (8 ohms):  no more than 0,02%
Intermodulation Distortion :
Continuous Power Output  at 8 Ω :  no more than 0,01%
1 Watt Power Output :  no more than 0,02%
IHF Power Bandwidth (8 ohms):  5 - 70,000 Hz
Damping Factor at 1000 Hz (8 ohms):  more than 60
Frequency Response (Normal Input 8 Ω)
At 1 Watt Power Output :  10 - 100,000 Hz +0, -1 dB
Input Sensitivity for 120 watts Power Output
Main In :  1 V ±2 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (IHF A network):
Main (Normal, Direct) :  better than 105 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (DIN Filter):
Main IN (Normal, Direct) :  better than 90 dB
Channel Balance:  no more than 1 dB
Residual Hum and Noise, 8 Ω:  no more than 0,5 mV
Idling Current:  40 - 120 mA
Midpoint Voltage:  0 ±20 mV
Muting Delay Time:  3 - 7 seconds
Power Requirements:
W-type :  AC 120 V, 60 Hz
E-type :  AC 220 V, 50 Hz
B-type :  AC 240 V, 50 Hz
Power Consumption:  480 W (620 VA)
Dimensions (W x H x D):  482 x 138 x 344 mm (19" x 5-1/3" x 13-1/2")
Weight:  13,5 kg (29,7 lbs)

 

 

 

 

JBL 4408, with Audio quest cables throughout.

 

Nikko Audio's Alpha 220 is a 120 watts per channel power amplifier having a DC servo-feedback loop, non-switching output circuitry, and a high slew rate The unit's input circuitr uses dual field effect transistors (FEDs) for lowest noise and distortion; the remaining stages employ wideband bipolar transistors. The amplifier has a slew rate of 100 volts per microsecond and a rise time of one microsecond. Low frequency signals are monitored and corrected by a DC servo-feedback loop.
The output stage is operated in a continuous non-switching mode, using circuitry that tracks transistor bias in synchronization with the music signal, to avoid excessive heat generation and resultant cost associated with traditional Class A designs while nonetheless offering the exceptional degree of sonic clarity and openness of Class A operation. Additional features include protection circuits to prevent speaker damage even if the preamp has a DC offset signal; front panel headphone jack and speaker selector switches; indicator lamps that monitor power-on and protection-circuit status.

 

If you ever see one of these _Check it out

 

I ran in the Past my MIDI Studio,....lol Atari Mega4 St with Notator software..gave this away too..sad face

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Failed Again

[Death]

^ Great, Nikko did great stuff and is somewhat underrated...

[DEALUX]

I've been using a modded Hifiman Sundara for a while. It still has somewhat wonky mids and highs but this is the first headphone that sounds like a full range speaker to me. It has proper extension on both ends of the spectrum with few issues in between. They measure quite well with the Dekoni Sheepskin earpads.

 

 

Frequency response graph (bass amount in target is elevated/not flat).

Spoiler

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by DEALUX

[DODI3OG]

Excuse me if my purchase(s) don't warrant me an entry into the Audiophile caste. I just wanna share my experience with you people.

 

First of all, I don't have hight quality equipment and all that, but I can tell good sound from bad sound and I can tell which is better from my experience.

 

My first audiophile-level gear was my PS Gold Headset. The sound was okay for its price, but when I bought it, I didn't have that many games that supported its VSS feature. I'll talk more about VSS and 3D audio later. I used that headset to mix some of my music since the audio produced okay mids and highs. The bass was certainly there, but the lows were just icky. The build quality was awful. It showed cracks not more than a week after I got it.

 

My OG apple earpods also produced good sound for the price, but it didn't last a couple of years.

 

My 2nd gaming headset, the PS Platinum Headset had really good mids, but the highs were very breaky, and the lows just weren't there. It doesn't even have a hint of bass. That headset broke after almost 3 years of abuse. The highs on that one was very piercing and breaky that I got temporarily deaf after playing a round of Warzone in 2020. I got more use out of this headset. Although, the 3D audio that was introduced in Uncharted was sparsely used, but it did a better job than just VSS.

 

The 3rd headset I got is the Pulse 3D. It has basically the same "EQ" as the Platinum, but the highs are much smoother. Build quality is okay, except for the smaller cans and the really tight squeeze. IMO, the Platinums were a lot more comfortable to wear.

 

I used to have a desk setup stereo speaker, but they were cheap and breaky in every imaginable way. But, I just bought myself the Sony HT S100F. It has more bass than the ones above. Soundstage is as I expected it to be, although, I'm using it mainly to game first and foremost. Here's where I put the VSS/3D audio talk.

 

Now, about VSS. I find that they only work when:

1. The video game supports 3D audio (much better if the sound design is centered on it).
2. The audio output for the said video game is set to stereo. If it is set to full surround sound 5.1 or 7.1 or whatever, it will get downsampled and some channels will sound muddy/muffled.
3. The audio output is set to 3D audio in the system.

 

If you're using a soundbar, like me, then setting it up isn't that different on this. All you have to do is select TV speakers as your audio output in the PS5, then turn on 3D audio for TV and measure the acoustics. I swear, when I was playing yesterday, it seems like I was wearing my headset. There was just a hint of bass that when I was playing, my mind was tricked that there was a car engine below my sofa. And whenever that GTA Online bunker door was opening, I could feel the vibrations.

 

It's just that with the soundbar, it is not as immersive since it doesn't clearly output quieter sounds such as flies buzzing, but it at full volume and the maximum dynamic range (in supported games), it will make everything sound so natural, that not even a headset could capture.

 

Comparing the two, sometimes, you just can't capture/output a natural dynamic range where voices don't sound so loud, while the rest of the sounds are muffled. Or in my case, dialogues are loud, even at high dynamic range, that I have to mix them down, along with the music when using a headset.

 

With this soundbar, I just put back the mix values to max and crank the volume to how I imagine they should sound IRL, with the highest dynamic range. It's good for video games with high dynamic range and excellent sound design (GTA V, Horizon Forbidden West, The Last of Us...)but older video games with compressed audio will only sound worse. I think I'd rather turn on my TV for that. I wish it had better bass, but other $100 options I had either didn't have HDMI or they sound worse. Mostly both. I also didn't want to bother getting wired subwoofers since my kitten's probably gonna end up totaling it. Wireless subwoofers are also not my thing.

 

Finally, I think I'm gonna stick to using my soundbar for my PS5, mainly for gaming; and my Pulse 3Ds for privacy and watching Dolby Atmos media on my laptop.

[sivispacem]

Best audio upgrade I've made for a couple of years...9" Kanto speaker stands for my Q Acoustic 2010is.

 

 

Honestly the difference it's made in soundstage having them properly elevated to ear height is phenomenal. Anyone running decent desktop speakers should invest the fifty or so quid it costs. 

[DEALUX]

Your PC specs betray your monitor choice lol. Are those 1080p non-VRR displays?

 

Yeah, there's not a lot you can do if your set-up is in a cramped space to get the best sound, save for maybe speakers inside walls or something. I don't really rely on speakers most of the time unless I'm watching YouTube or movies. Headphones and especially IEMs are much more immersive for gaming in my experience.

[sivispacem]

36 minutes ago, DEALUX said:

Your PC specs betray your monitor choice lol. Are those 1080p non-VRR displays?

...No, they're two 27" 2K 165Hz GSync ROG Swift PG279Qs. You really think I'd be rocking non-adaptive 1080ps with a heavily overclocked RTX 4080? 

 

I'll be replacing them with 4K Cooler Master Tempest GP27Us in the new year.

[DEALUX]

3 hours ago, sivispacem said:

...No, they're two 27" 2K 165Hz GSync ROG Swift PG279Qs. You really think I'd be rocking non-adaptive 1080ps with a heavily overclocked RTX 4080? 

 

I'll be replacing them with 4K Cooler Master Tempest GP27Us in the new year.

60 Hz with fast sync is not so bad lol. I forgot how small 27" monitors looked.

 

27" is a bit small for 4K I think but I don't use a dual monitor setup. I reckon 32" is still pretty decent for 1440p (especially if you sit further back) and 40" would look nicest for 4K. Small displays can't do HDR all that well. I guess mini LED can achieve better peak brightness than OLED.

 

Edit: Holy. It absolutely destroys just about any gaming OLED except for contrast, which isn't great.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/cooler-master/tempest-gp27u

Edited November 25, 2023 by DEALUX